View Full Version : Retaliation Grievance Thread
nuff said... we are not afraid of the big bad LOR
Max Logan
07-06-2009, 18:19
SA AzN Dynasty(#)[LoR] FullTimeJob(#)[S] 710 Land, 7.704 Food 22:12:21-2009/07/06
you can always edit the state numbers, but I never understood it as you can just search the state name, so as always I found it pointless and left the numbers in
ive had a hard on to kill ClickClick for years it seems...Finally.
We know we wont win, but we will not bow down to LOR like so many do.
Crimson Shadow
07-06-2009, 18:28
Nice to see that LoR likes to play fair and use the retal declaration loophole to strike us 30 minutes before we (the smaller nation) could declare war, and even managed to kill 2 of our states before we could declare war.
I could have done the same thing back to them, but instead I did what "all of us good little boys and girls" should do. I reported them in the appropriate manner and waited for our "official" declarations as we did not want to bend the rules or the system that Mr. P put so much work and effort towards.
Just so everyone knows SLOB declared Preperations against LOR and had to wait 1hour before we could declare War.
While we waited LOR declared retaliation and proceeded to kill our top states.
I did not return fire as that is not what the Declaration of Retaliation is meant to be used for.
LOR leadership found a loop hole and instead of reporting it properly they took advantage of it.
I hope that this does not *bite them in the arse* (actually i do)
It was hard to watch my brothers die whilst we stood there with honor not flinching until it was are appropriate time to act. 1hr after preparations.
FeaRLezZoN3
07-06-2009, 18:59
LETS GET READY TO RUMMMMMBBBLEEEEEEE!
Cemetary
07-06-2009, 19:09
LOR's superior numbers weren't enough Maggio
you would assume one would know to do that prior to it happening and absolutely could not resist regardless of the obvious advantage.
last set I suggested that to Devil that LOR members not comment on wars on the forums...maybe he ordered a radio silence.
Mr President
07-06-2009, 19:50
http://forums.nation-wars.com/showthread.php?t=4383 (link to post)
Retaliation-
Retaliation is used for states inside a nation who has a simple retal for illegal attacks made against them. It will cost 2 turns for war attacks. You are able to put a reason for declaration, and you are also able to end the retaliation after 10 min. Using Retaliation as a means of war is against the rules. Please use it the way it's meant to be used. Retals can not be declared against a nation you are already at war with or have sanctions against or from.
Divine Intervention
07-06-2009, 19:54
oooh i bet LoR leaders thought they were so smart doing that. the ones who issued the retal should have their states deleted and the SLOB ones reinstated with no turn compensation for LoR. theyll prob ***** about this even though theyve already got this war won lol.
its not up to us (the members), but I think the deletion of states that took part and possibly the one who acually declared retal is warrented. I reported states and leaders appropriately and stood by and watched them take out two of our states "unlawfully".
Mr President
07-06-2009, 20:25
After all the information has been looked at it is clear that the retall options was not used in the spirit it was created in. There is a loophole in the retal option that does not check to see if war prep has been declared. It only checks to see if an actual war dec has been declared. This is due to the fact that war prep came AFTER the retal option and was never changed to check both. This loophole will be closed.
The Retaliation feature was created for a quick response to illegal attacks without having to go through all the war prep procedures. It was not created to be used in this fashion.
State #74 and #70 will be reinstated to what they were prior to the attacks. LoR's punishment will be the loss of turns it took to kill both states and a stern one and only warning not to abuse loopholes.
Taking everything into consideration, i feel this is fair.
Divine Intervention
07-06-2009, 20:36
Mr P is too kind. should have deleted Ali/Devil or w/e declared/authorised those retals (the decleration message makes me think it was Devil :)).
Disorder
07-06-2009, 20:58
Mr. P's decision was more than fair imo, but others will not see it that way.
ive had a hard on to kill ClickClick for years it seems...Finally.
you had a hard ON? maggion you naughty.. :p
State #74 and #70 will be reinstated to what they were prior to the attacks
how about mine.. :(
thanks...i had to go asking for big time...whats the risk in not asking. Boy BB was pissed...lol
funny the whole radio silence thing...but yet they whine with their state names...asking why they didnt get there turns back, and that Mr. P makes it up as he goes along.
The rule was pretty clear when I read it. Why do you think I didnt break it when I could have easilly.
Crimson Shadow
07-06-2009, 22:56
you know what would be absolutely hilarious is that if LOR didnt not respond to any public opinions allagations insults or any posts at all about war matters and FA matters concerning LOR like a radio silence. - no joking it would be great
You asked for it, and looks like you got it ;)
wtf!!! we have retals cause we they made illegal attacks on us, what happens to u
tsk tsk tsk, expoiting loopholes on a smaller nation. What a plus for the rep for LoR.
wtf!!! we have retals cause we they made illegal attacks on us, what happens to u
Prove illegal attacks, Raul. Post them if you can. You can't cause there were none. Nice try again.
You have killed RoMe(#54)
You have killed BTown(#74)
If this is what SLOB has to offer... I am greatly dissapointed
wtf!!! we have retals cause we they made illegal attacks on us, what happens to u
Retal feature not to be used when war has been declared goober..... war attacks had not been made when retal got declared.. it was used to get around the waiting period
FeaRLezZoN3
07-07-2009, 01:04
congrats LoR on your quick kill, I was online the whole time, started reading this very good blog on how a guy won the bad beat jackpot for $75,000 and then next thing i know iam dead lol, good luck SLOB.
jeff_capes
07-07-2009, 03:43
Yeah so SLOB has declared which is cool, but where is everyone else!
It will be a repeat of last set so the stupid windmill will prob be next to burn if they don't start acting. lol :P
Prove illegal attacks, Raul. Post them if you can. You can't cause there were none. Nice try again.
common dogma, lor has a policy in effect, we had several times 3 slob attacks on same lorian, thats illegal reasons for us, and we didnt declare, and war wasnt even taken effect yet, if it had taken effect, u could have started FS, simple thing, so no, we had no war upon us, its not our fault u warred us when we were going to retal, why do u think some members were online ready to strike??
at least a voting must take place, this is clearly a help from mr pres to try and give slob 3-5 hours more of life before they are dead lol
Retal feature not to be used when war has been declared goober..... war attacks had not been made when retal got declared.. it was used to get around the waiting period
war will take effect on xxxxxx-09, so no, there is no war yet....
Missionary
07-07-2009, 05:59
It will be a repeat of last set so the stupid windmill will prob be next to burn if they don't start acting. lol :P
see no reason why we should help a nation that has never offered anything in return. plus it will be the same as last set, my nation was not attacked last set and the same shall happen this set :)
p.s. i dont speak on behalf of the nation. im not the leader, infact i only have 4 fricking privs grrrrrr....... jiggerplick has more than me :(
jeff_capes
07-07-2009, 06:57
see no reason why we should help a nation that has never offered anything in return. plus it will be the same as last set, my nation was not attacked last set and the same shall happen this set :)
p.s. i dont speak on behalf of the nation. im not the leader, infact i only have 4 fricking privs grrrrrr....... jiggerplick has more than me :(
I hope your right, and if you are can I join. I don't wanna die, :( :laugh:
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 07:07
After all the information has been looked at it is clear that the retall options was not used in the spirit it was created in. There is a loophole in the retal option that does not check to see if war prep has been declared. It only checks to see if an actual war dec has been declared. This is due to the fact that war prep came AFTER the retal option and was never changed to check both. This loophole will be closed.
The Retaliation feature was created for a quick response to illegal attacks without having to go through all the war prep procedures. It was not created to be used in this fashion.
State #74 and #70 will be reinstated to what they were prior to the attacks. LoR's punishment will be the loss of turns it took to kill both states and a stern one and only warning not to abuse loopholes.
Taking everything into consideration, i feel this is fair.
I seem to remember a feature being abused when I warred someone and there was no rollback then nor was there a loss of turns this in my opinion is an abuse of power. I am not playing this set but I find it a crock of **** that not only was there a rollback but the turns were lost to that states that were involved but yet nothing seemed to happen to states that went into vacation using a loophole and then came out of vacation joining another nation to kill us. I also believe the consequences for abusing this loophole or any loophole should be posted and not made up along the way. Incase none of you know about the loophole I am talking about feel free to look at the bottom of my signature.
You got my vote LOR maybe ill play this set to help you out.
Divine Intervention
07-07-2009, 07:28
excepts it says in the rules that retals arent allowed to be used like that. didnt say anything remotly similar for vacation. still butthurt from that set :p
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 07:33
Your just as lame as the turn loss with your explanation.
We all know vacation wasnt to be used like that but it happened anyway and nothing happened so whats happening now with the turn loss again as I stated above in my own opinion is a crock of horse DOODY.
see no reason why we should help a nation that has never offered anything in return. plus it will be the same as last set, my nation was not attacked last set and the same shall happen this set :)
damb man...i didnt even say anything this set. I wasnt going to ask,but now that it was mentioned I didnt expect you to spit on SLOB.
So in your life someone always has to do something for you first. So no LOR member has ever done anything to you? that is what this is about, not about last set, but about every set they pushed policy or pushed around players. We are a group SLOB or not are going to fight them back with or with out the help of those whom are scared of them.
:think::
common dogma, lor has a policy in effect, we had several times 3 slob attacks on same lorian, thats illegal reasons for us, and we didnt declare, and war wasnt even taken effect yet, if it had taken effect, u could have started FS, simple thing, so no, we had no war upon us, its not our fault u warred us when we were going to retal, why do u think some members were online ready to strike??
at least a voting must take place, this is clearly a help from mr pres to try and give slob 3-5 hours more of life before they are dead lol
Ali [LoR] Legion of Riot Come in JULY SET!! Join up. says:
we had one kill
Ali [LoR] Legion of Riot Come in JULY SET!! Join up. says:
not to mention
Ali [LoR] Legion of Riot Come in JULY SET!! Join up. says:
we used it 6 times last set
Ali [LoR] Legion of Riot Come in JULY SET!! Join up. says:
and no one said anything
Try again Raul
Your just as lame as the turn loss with your explanation.
We all know vacation wasnt to be used like that but it happened anyway and nothing happened so whats happening now with the turn loss again as I stated above in my own opinion is a crock of horse DOODY.
Since when did you become as whiny as Vinnie?
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 10:27
Since when did you become as whiny as Vinnie?
Since when is making a statement of whats going on whining. I simply stated my opinion and compared it to something that happened to my nation in the past.
All i know is, i logged on, and got 2 targets, they had apparently already been killed once, i had no problem doing it a second time for them
Anyone gonna reset the game now? I didn't think so
Carry On (And stop *****ing, like half the people posting don't even have anything to do with LoR)
Max Logan
07-07-2009, 12:07
common dogma, lor has a policy in effect, we had several times 3 slob attacks on same lorian, thats illegal reasons for us, and we didnt declare, and war wasnt even taken effect yet, if it had taken effect, u could have started FS, simple thing, so no, we had no war upon us, its not our fault u warred us when we were going to retal, why do u think some members were online ready to strike??
at least a voting must take place, this is clearly a help from mr pres to try and give slob 3-5 hours more of life before they are dead lol
Legion of Riot[LoR] has declared Retaliation on Sneaky Little Old Bastards[SLOB]
Reason: i think a retal is in order for warring us
Ain`t nothing said about breaking your precious policy. But I didn`t expect Raul to actually think of a 'good' excuse. It`s Raul after all
I seem to remember a feature being abused when I warred someone and there was no rollback then nor was there a loss of turns this in my opinion is an abuse of power. I am not playing this set but I find it a crock of **** that not only was there a rollback but the turns were lost to that states that were involved but yet nothing seemed to happen to states that went into vacation using a loophole and then came out of vacation joining another nation to kill us. I also believe the consequences for abusing this loophole or any loophole should be posted and not made up along the way. Incase none of you know about the loophole I am talking about feel free to look at the bottom of my signature.
You got my vote LOR maybe ill play this set to help you out.
actually that was changed the next set, so...
Since when did you become as whiny as Vinnie?
I was about to say that, so thanks! ;)
I was about to say that, so thanks! ;)
i was thinking about taking a quote from three different posts, just so i could make three separate posts and look like a total moron
But this guy did it for me, Thanks for looking dumb MAX Can't his multiple posts be flagged for spam?
Missionary
07-07-2009, 12:15
Since when did you become as whiny as Vinnie?
:O i am shocked and offended doggyma :(
damb man...i didnt even say anything this set. I wasnt going to ask,but now that it was mentioned I didnt expect you to spit on SLOB.
So in your life someone always has to do something for you first. So no LOR member has ever done anything to you? that is what this is about, not about last set, but about every set they pushed policy or pushed around players. We are a group SLOB or not are going to fight them back with or with out the help of those whom are scared of them.
:think::
i think scared is abit of an over statement but if thats what you think then your allowed your opinion. and no i dont expect people to help me 1st in this game, infact apart from hoebawt and ali no nation leader has helped me without me doing something 1st for them, and tbh im bored of being expected to help others against LoR. i mean the last major anti-LoR and co war in WoW my nation go pounded by them for 2-3 sets whilst alot of others just watched. again when there was 3 natios hitting my newly formed THIK nation and again you all just watched and did nothing.
so excuse me if i just sit back and watch again :D
you never asked me to help. last set I asked you if you would help or do something via ingame pm. I am sure that someone from SLOB talked to S this set, but...
Max Logan
07-07-2009, 12:44
i was thinking about taking a quote from three different posts, just so i could make three separate posts and look like a total moron
But this guy did it for me, Thanks for looking dumb MAX Can't his multiple posts be flagged for spam?
i`m sorry, i was just replaying to what thought was necessary. I know you`re offended I left your posts out and feel under rated. Well, here you go...
diablonate18
07-07-2009, 12:54
No wonder nobody plays this gay *** game. Just from reading all this crap has made me want to rejoin this game for a set or two just to play with LOR. As long as they keep killing you whining pansies like Maggio,Anton, Mrs.P, and all you babies in SLOB. Nice to see all you idiots from NS jumped over to the happy do gooders SLOB. Seriously man, THE BILLS SUCK! TO can't save your crappy *** team from sucking worse then this game.::oops:
Divine Intervention
07-07-2009, 13:00
hey how am i a pansy :( i saw someone warring LoR and decided to join them instead of expand and build teching :(
Disorder
07-07-2009, 13:46
:thinking: I happen to enjoy the action... At least it was not a 35 man LOR nation attacking a 10 man nation again this set. :sleep:
northbabylon
07-07-2009, 14:15
No wonder nobody plays this gay *** game. Just from reading all this crap has made me want to rejoin this game for a set or two just to play with LOR. As long as they keep killing you whining pansies like Maggio,Anton, Mrs.P, and all you babies in SLOB. Nice to see all you idiots from NS jumped over to the happy do gooders SLOB. Seriously man, THE BILLS SUCK! TO can't save your crappy *** team from sucking worse then this game.::oops:
Oogas not even playing this set. We jumped over to SLOB A) because i am going to be semi-active for the rest of the summer. I got a promotion at my job. And i am going to be working a lot more. Plus a side job with my cousin. Plus it saves NA if we are all together and makes it a lot easier to see whose on to hit and whatnot.
NS and SLOB has warred with eachother in the past its no surprise now.
Max Logan
07-07-2009, 14:16
No wonder nobody plays this gay *** game. Just from reading all this crap has made me want to rejoin this game for a set or two just to play with LOR. As long as they keep killing you whining pansies like Maggio,Anton, Mrs.P, and all you babies in SLOB. Nice to see all you idiots from NS jumped over to the happy do gooders SLOB. Seriously man, THE BILLS SUCK! TO can't save your crappy *** team from sucking worse then this game.::oops:
yes, cuz you got killed in GRIM a few times and run to the largest member nation to finally get WINNING!
Yes, we`re the babies here :rolleyes: Esp when it was LoR who hit us last set and was ready to hit us yesterday, just we did it before them. Yes, we`re such cry *** wussies attacking twice a larger nation, instead of pulling a Vinnie and sucking up to LoR.
we such a gay *** pussies
No wonder nobody plays this gay *** game. Just from reading all this crap has made me want to rejoin this game for a set or two just to play with LOR. As long as they keep killing you whining pansies like Maggio,Anton, Mrs.P, and all you babies in SLOB. Nice to see all you idiots from NS jumped over to the happy do gooders SLOB. Seriously man, THE BILLS SUCK! TO can't save your crappy *** team from sucking worse then this game.::oops:
Christ he is worse than us... If he really read it and really looked into it....all we are doing is calling it how it went down...
A smaller nation took on a larger nation
The larger nation abused the retaliation declaration
Big Deal
Oh and Vinnie gets on here and said he sleeps in the same bead as LOR
Max Logan
07-07-2009, 16:29
Christ he is worse than us... If he really read it and really looked into it....all we are doing is calling it how it went down...
A smaller nation took on a larger nation
The larger nation abused the retaliation declaration
Big Deal
Oh and Vinnie gets on here and said he sleeps in the same bead as LOR
next time you`ll know what to say to be considered cool! :p
Lol that is hilarious....they got me in 3min flat, while I was looking for people to strike with
Mr President
07-07-2009, 16:56
I seem to remember a feature being abused when I warred someone and there was no rollback then nor was there a loss of turns this in my opinion is an abuse of power. I am not playing this set but I find it a crock of **** that not only was there a rollback but the turns were lost to that states that were involved but yet nothing seemed to happen to states that went into vacation using a loophole and then came out of vacation joining another nation to kill us. I also believe the consequences for abusing this loophole or any loophole should be posted and not made up along the way. Incase none of you know about the loophole I am talking about feel free to look at the bottom of my signature.
You got my vote LOR maybe ill play this set to help you out.
Grim there is a difference here. First, nothing was ever stated that going into vacation mode was against the rules UNTIL it happened to your nation. It was your nation that got that whole issue changed and now you can't enter it if your in a war.. I would think you would be happy that your nation was the leading reason is was changed.
It was clearly stated what the Retaliation feature was to be used for. I did take into consideration that the post was not read by members like Devil who was not around when the feature took place, and that is why states were not deleted.. The only loss was turns, and i still hold firm that it was fair.. Even though most in LoR doesn't see it that way.
I can only fix the loopholes when they are found and abused. And i try to be as fair as possible. In your case there really wasn't much i could do as nothing was even stated in a post. But i did fix that loophole and i kinda thought you would be happy about that.. guess not... There will NEVER be a day that i can please everyone with whatever decision i make. But all should know that i do consult other people for opinions on things all the time. Rarely do i ever make a decision by myself.. And one more thing to add, i don't have a admins manual. I am learning as i go. Many times i will mess up, but at all time my intentions are always for the better of the game. And one thing i NEVER do is seek out one nation and try to hurt them in anyway... I really do try to be fair as possible.
No wonder nobody plays this gay *** game. Just from reading all this crap has made me want to rejoin this game for a set or two just to play with LOR. As long as they keep killing you whining pansies like Maggio,Anton, Mrs.P, and all you babies in SLOB. Nice to see all you idiots from NS jumped over to the happy do gooders SLOB. Seriously man, THE BILLS SUCK! TO can't save your crappy *** team from sucking worse then this game.::oops:
whoa hold on there tiger.... "Mrs P" didn't make one comment about this war. My post is simply taking care of a loophole... And i'm sorry you feel this is a gay @ss game.. Many others enjoy it.. I do have to agree, some of these people in here are whiners though.. :) And you know who you are lol..
Mr. P
Punishing someone for exploiting a loophole is not the best plan of action.
The best plan of action is to plug the hole and move on.
Like you said, you cannot and will not please everyone, but you do tend to please those that whine a lot.
How about stop pleasing those that whine a lot and maybe they will stop whining.
If we were going to punish everyone that found a loop hole in some way and or form, then the top 1-2 every set would be banned for exploiting loop holes.
The nations that helped those members get the top 1-2 spot would also get banned.
Everyone who jumped out of a nation and traded GB with members of the same nation would get banned.
I can go on forever but you get the point..
and if it had been you that it happened to you uld not shut up till something was done about it..... and we have been down that road before.... Personally I feel the offending states should have been deleted and tagged cheater seeing as they knew there was a loophole prior to being caught using it..... But does explain all devils questions last set concerning the retaliation feature...
and if it had been you that it happened to you uld not shut up till something was done about it..... and we have been down that road before.... Personally I feel the offending states should have been deleted and tagged cheater seeing as they knew there was a loophole prior to being caught using it..... But does explain all devils questions last set concerning the retaliation feature...
you mean where you told me you thought it was where we could only hit one state with that? And not to mention the fact the you neglected to mention anything about it being illegal to use for war purposes (and as an admin i would expect you to have known this)
Grim there is a difference here. First, nothing was ever stated that going into vacation mode was against the rules UNTIL it happened to your nation. It was your nation that got that whole issue changed and now you can't enter it if your in a war.. I would think you would be happy that your nation was the leading reason is was changed.
Seems that Grim is only upset because you say a loophole should be punished, but you didn't punish the previous one. You might say there was nothing said about the vacation mode, but the fact stands that there was nothing in the TOS about the retal being used as a war act. If someone plays the game, and never goes on the forums, you would be penalizing someone who would not have known. Every enforcement of a rule needs to come from the game TOS that a person can read without going on the forums. The only rules you, as an admin, should enforce are those in the TOS.
People will say it wasn't the intended function of the retal declaration, but the same is said for vacation mode and how PAIN used it. The reasons for the loophole were the same, yet you did nothing before and now you go and instead of resetting things, you penalize one side and give an advantage to another.
It was clearly stated what the Retaliation feature was to be used for. I did take into consideration that the post was not read by members like Devil who was not around when the feature took place, and that is why states were not deleted.. The only loss was turns, and i still hold firm that it was fair.. Even though most in LoR doesn't see it that way.
You penalized players who didn't know they were doing anything wrong. How is that fair? You say you didn't delete them, but just because you don't go to the extreme doesn't mean you did right. The lesser of two evils is still not a good, or in this case, fair.
After reinstating the two states that were killed, you didn't give back the 800 some turns to kill them, the 800 some turns it took to kill them again, or the 800 turns that they had together. A 2400 turn swing. Something fair would have been going back before the retal declaration, resetting every state and fixing the loophole. There were more options, but you were too stubborn and proud to admit that you weren't/aren't being fair.
I can only fix the loopholes when they are found and abused. And i try to be as fair as possible. In your case there really wasn't much i could do as nothing was even stated in a post. But i did fix that loophole and i kinda thought you would be happy about that.. guess not... There will NEVER be a day that i can please everyone with whatever decision i make. But all should know that i do consult other people for opinions on things all the time. Rarely do i ever make a decision by myself.. And one more thing to add, i don't have a admins manual. I am learning as i go. Many times i will mess up, but at all time my intentions are always for the better of the game. And one thing i NEVER do is seek out one nation and try to hurt them in anyway... I really do try to be fair as possible.
I don't expect you'll ever come upon a decision that everyone likes, but penalizing one side and giving an advantage to the other, instead of equalizing what happened, is not fair. In any situation. Your job as an admin is to set straight, not crooked. If someone cheated, then you delete them. Who cheated? Where in the TOS did it say anything? You didn't take the proper steps as an admin, and now you come down hard on us because of your mistake in not changing the TOS. Maybe it's time you just own up that you slacked on your admin job, set the balance of power back where it should be, and admit you were wrong.
Mr President
07-07-2009, 19:35
Mr. P
Punishing someone for exploiting a loophole is not the best plan of action.
The best plan of action is to plug the hole and move on.
Like you said, you cannot and will not please everyone, but you do tend to please those that whine a lot.
How about stop pleasing those that whine a lot and maybe they will stop whining.
If we were going to punish everyone that found a loop hole in some way and or form, then the top 1-2 every set would be banned for exploiting loop holes.
The nations that helped those members get the top 1-2 spot would also get banned.
Everyone who jumped out of a nation and traded GB with members of the same nation would get banned.
I can go on forever but you get the point..
There was only one person who brought this issue to my attention, and all the message said was there is a loophole problem with the retaliation system.. I didn't post my first message till after i had looked into everything. My normal rule of thumb is to read the reports long before i come on the forums and read the complaints lol.. That way i don't have to see anyone's whines until after i've checked it all out..
And i have to disagree with not punishing those who abuse loopholes. And i'm sure you would as well under the right circumstances.. Like say you held the highest NW in the record book, but someone found a loophole and used it to beat your records.. I'm sure you would not be saying just plug the hole and move on..
Anyway, the action has happened the decision was made and i'm not going to keep going back and forth over it.. If anyone has anymore complaints over this issue please send them HERE (http://forums.nation-wars.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=33) ..
Thank you! :)
Mr President
07-07-2009, 19:57
Seems that Grim is only upset because you say a loophole should be punished, but you didn't punish the previous one. You might say there was nothing said about the vacation mode, but the fact stands that there was nothing in the TOS about the retal being used as a war act. If someone plays the game, and never goes on the forums, you would be penalizing someone who would not have known. Every enforcement of a rule needs to come from the game TOS that a person can read without going on the forums. The only rules you, as an admin, should enforce are those in the TOS.
There is no way i can add every little thing or possible thing in the TOS. Holy **** i would be on here all night and still miss 10,000 things. That is why we make the TOS a "General" overview of the rules and handle each instance in a case by case manner, cause there is no way one rule can cover every instance...and then at the bottom of the TOS is clearly says:
"19. - Do not try to cleverly circumvent some rule listed here. These rules are general guidelines and are very flexible.
Violations are either automatically dealt with, or looked at and dealt with on a case by case praxis. If you know about someone else that is cheating you have to report him/her. Not doing so will be treated as cheating and you will be subject to deletion. Violation of these simple rules may result in account deletion without prior notice and in some cases a permanent ban from the game. These rules may be changed with or without notice to the user!"
You can spin this anyway you want. And you can play the i didn't know card when the fact is how could you not know? Why would we add a war prep feature to the game if you could just hit retaliation and go to war? Why was there lots of conversations asking for a simple way to handle retaliations? And further more, when you join a nation you are at the mercy of your leaders stupid decisions.. If you leader starts a war and gets you all killed and i suppose to reinstate your state cause "you didn't know what your leader was doing"? NO! Every member since the dawn of this game is at the mercy of his/her leaders good or bad choices.. Don't like them, leave the nation!
One of your leaders admitted he knew it was shady but did it anyway. being able to go to war without first prepping for war is a loophole and people know this.
I'm sorry you feel that i "GAVE" the advantage to the other nation. I didn't do anything. I didn't see anyone from LoR complaining when they had the advantage of using the loophole.. ONLY when they get busted trying to be clever do i hear complaints.
The loophole is my fault for not getting it right the first time. I will take 100% full responsibility for that. But i will not take the blame for LoR's dumb choice to exploit it.. LoR's whole BS reasons for the retal is about as lame as my coding skills. Out of the 3 of LoRs leaders not one of you had the same story. There was no talk about doing any retals. Some of you got on, saw SLOB beat you to the punch and you found a "shady" way around it.
I have no problem EVER admitting when i am wrong. Hell i do it all the time. But i'm sorry, i am not wrong on this. If i felt for one minute that the 2 members who conspired this really didn't feel it was a loophole then i would have just erased what happened and fixed the loophole.
Again, i know 99% of LoR's members are very intelligent (yes pron your one of the 99%) enough to know that the retal feature was not a work around for the war declaration.
you mean where you told me you thought it was where we could only hit one state with that? And not to mention the fact the you neglected to mention anything about it being illegal to use for war purposes (and as an admin i would expect you to have known this)
Devil I am not a game admin you seem to forget that matter and you never mentioned using it for war either.... And with being unfamiliar with the feature I was unaware that it effected whole nation and not just a particular state...
Yes it is possible to kill a state in the retal function, but it must be a legitimate retal. If there had been an illegal attack on LoR states and you decided to kill that state, dead state, no problem. Come on, you found something you thought would be to your advantage and got caught, just man up and take it, you are still winning the war, big fat hairy deal. You just got mad because you didn't get FS, so what, no big deal.
Yes it is possible to kill a state in the retal function, but it must be a legitimate retal. If there had been an illegal attack on LoR states and you decided to kill that state, dead state, no problem. Come on, you found something you thought would be to your advantage and got caught, just man up and take it, you are still winning the war, big fat hairy deal. You just got mad because you didn't get FS, so what, no big deal.
does badmouthing a nation count for a retal? who is to say one is just? its perception. And we let you get the FS. Ask ali if you don't believe me, i told him that we would let you guys hit then crush you because that away we coulnt be the " bullys " who went around declaring on random nations.
So don't think we were mad, its just more fun to play with your food than to eat it as fast as you can ;)
Devil I am not a game admin you seem to forget that matter and you never mentioned using it for war either.... And with being unfamiliar with the feature I was unaware that it effected whole nation and not just a particular state...
unaware i came out and told you that i intended to use it to kill a breaker state before the war declaration time had passed. This was under the impression that what you told me about the feature was true.
And your not a game admin but a forum admin so as a major post as such i would expect that you would have read the post Mr. P directed us to.
There is no way i can add every little thing or possible thing in the TOS. Holy **** i would be on here all night and still miss 10,000 things. That is why we make the TOS a "General" overview of the rules and handle each instance in a case by case manner, cause there is no way one rule can cover every instance...and then at the bottom of the TOS is clearly says:
"19. - Do not try to cleverly circumvent some rule listed here. These rules are general guidelines and are very flexible.
Violations are either automatically dealt with, or looked at and dealt with on a case by case praxis. If you know about someone else that is cheating you have to report him/her. Not doing so will be treated as cheating and you will be subject to deletion. Violation of these simple rules may result in account deletion without prior notice and in some cases a permanent ban from the game. These rules may be changed with or without notice to the user!"
You can spin this anyway you want. And you can play the i didn't know card when the fact is how could you not know? Why would we add a war prep feature to the game if you could just hit retaliation and go to war? Why was there lots of conversations asking for a simple way to handle retaliations? And further more, when you join a nation you are at the mercy of your leaders stupid decisions.. If you leader starts a war and gets you all killed and i suppose to reinstate your state cause "you didn't know what your leader was doing"? NO! Every member since the dawn of this game is at the mercy of his/her leaders good or bad choices.. Don't like them, leave the nation!
You actually don't have to add too much to the TOS--in fact, all you had to do was copy/paste what you wrote in the forums into the TOS. Are you telling me that would take you all night? Just because you couldn't do something that took 2 mins, doesn't mean you should penalize.
I didn't know about the function, because I haven't played for numerous sets. I certainly didn't check the forums very often, and I didn't keep up on rule changes. (You can see my forum postings and my state logins in your logs). I didn't know if this was an accepted practice or not. I didn't know how the function works, if it was a timed thing, a number of attacks, or a % dmg to a given state. Do you expect every player to read every forum posting about this game before they start?
Never should an admin punish a player for another player's actions. Are you kidding me?!?! What kind of decision making is that?? If my leaders do something wrong to get me killed, then I will talk to them. If an admin screws me, then I will talk to that admin. Quit deflecting your responsibility in this situation. If you think I did wrong according to the rules, then show me how I did that--knowingly did something wrong according to the rules, and punish me for that. Ridiculous that you would still think this is the right thing.
One of your leaders admitted he knew it was shady but did it anyway. being able to go to war without first prepping for war is a loophole and people know this.
Then why are you punishing my state? If you think my leader did something, then you deal with the situation with the leader--not the states that don't know what's going on.
I'm sorry you feel that i "GAVE" the advantage to the other nation.
You didn't give THE advantage, you gave an advantage. You overstepped the bounds of being an admin by giving an advantage.
I didn't do anything. I didn't see anyone from LoR complaining when they had the advantage of using the loophole.. ONLY when they get busted trying to be clever do i hear complaints.
You did do something--you gave an advantage to one group of players at the cost to the other group of players. That's not an admin's job. Your job is to enforce the rules in the TOS, and to make things fair and equal.
How am I supposed to complain when I don't know if it's wrong or not? There are plenty of "shady" things that you let go in the game.
The loophole is my fault for not getting it right the first time. I will take 100% full responsibility for that. But i will not take the blame for LoR's dumb choice to exploit it.. LoR's whole BS reasons for the retal is about as lame as my coding skills. Out of the 3 of LoRs leaders not one of you had the same story. There was no talk about doing any retals. Some of you got on, saw SLOB beat you to the punch and you found a "shady" way around it.
SLOB didn't beat us to the punch. The two states we killed were, SURPRISE, not online for their strike. Everyone was online because of text messages, and came on when SLOB declared. This little paragraph of yours just shows your bias of the situation and who you're siding with on the issue. Again, own up to what your assumptions are about the situation, and see how you're overstepping your bounds as admin.
PS--I'm not leading this set. Hence why the leaders contacts for LOR in the recruiting threads for July doesn't have my info in it.
I have no problem EVER admitting when i am wrong. Hell i do it all the time. But i'm sorry, i am not wrong on this. If i felt for one minute that the 2 members who conspired this really didn't feel it was a loophole then i would have just erased what happened and fixed the loophole.
Again, i know 99% of LoR's members are very intelligent (yes pron your one of the 99%) enough to know that the retal feature was not a work around for the war declaration.
If you can narrow it down to 2 members who "conspired", then why are you punishing more than just those two members? Why do you feel the need to punish all of LOR? Do you have some sort of grudge with them? Why are you too proud and stubborn to admit that you may have overstepped your bounds as admin? Why don't you aim for making the situation fair, instead of giving an advantage?
You may not have a problem admitting you're wrong when you think you're wrong, but you sure have a problem admitting you're wrong when you don't think you're wrong. I've already showed you how you've overstepped your admin duties, how you could have easily put this in the TOS and how it's integral for an admin to act according to the TOS and not the forums. Maybe it's time you recognize what you've done wrong here.
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 21:04
Grim there is a difference here. First, nothing was ever stated that going into vacation mode was against the rules UNTIL it happened to your nation. It was your nation that got that whole issue changed and now you can't enter it if your in a war.. I would think you would be happy that your nation was the leading reason is was changed.
It was clearly stated what the Retaliation feature was to be used for. I did take into consideration that the post was not read by members like Devil who was not around when the feature took place, and that is why states were not deleted.. The only loss was turns, and i still hold firm that it was fair.. Even though most in LoR doesn't see it that way.
I can only fix the loopholes when they are found and abused. And i try to be as fair as possible. In your case there really wasn't much i could do as nothing was even stated in a post. But i did fix that loophole and i kinda thought you would be happy about that.. guess not... There will NEVER be a day that i can please everyone with whatever decision i make. But all should know that i do consult other people for opinions on things all the time. Rarely do i ever make a decision by myself.. And one more thing to add, i don't have a admins manual. I am learning as i go. Many times i will mess up, but at all time my intentions are always for the better of the game. And one thing i NEVER do is seek out one nation and try to hurt them in anyway... I really do try to be fair as possible.
I am happy that it was fixed but I didnt see any loss of turns or any consequences to them for abusing a loophole. I dont think one should have been taken here either. As I said before in my own personal opinion and I am not even playing this set though I did make a state is that I think it was an abuse of power to have the states involved lose the turns they used. I dont find that fair either. Tha game got rolled back to my understanding, so how is it now fair? Bitter you say sure I will admit to being a bit bitter after being screwed over by a loophole and nothing being done immediatly like in this case.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:06
You can't possibly say that if SLOB used that loophole and killed your states before we were allowed to that you (LoR) wouldn't ***** too. I've never bashed LoR (try to find 1 post of mine where I did) but I know that LoR would be pissed if the SLOB states weren't deleted. Not just states restored and turns lost. I'm not sure why LoR is making a big deal about it. A war prep is required to declare WAR. You managed to eliminate the 2 hours that were necessary to declare war. You can claim ignorance, but you must have known it was wrong (or at least your leaders should have.) How doesn't that warrant the reinstatement of the states that were wrongfully killed. You already have double our numbers, why do you need even more help. Just get some of the states to tag up that you have "hiding" and you can have your advantage back.
@ Pron, you say there are lots of "shady" things going on in the game. Not reporting them makes you just as guilty as the person who is committing them.
If you know about someone else that is cheating you have to report him/her. Not doing so will be treated as cheating
I'm sick of the *****ing as well, but if pres did nothing SLOB *****es, if pres took action, LoR *****es. Nothing can ever be done to satisfy both sides.
The way PAIN used Vacation Mode was cheap and it was fixed that set. To be fair at the point, there was nothing which said Vacation Mode could only be used if you were not going to log in for 5 days and not in war, etc.
This can be compared to Vacation Mode only to a certain point.
You can't possibly say that if SLOB used that loophole and killed your states before we were allowed to that you (LoR) wouldn't ***** too. I've never bashed LoR (try to find 1 post of mine where I did) but I know that LoR would be pissed if the SLOB states weren't deleted. Not just states restored and turns lost. I'm not sure why LoR is making a big deal about it. A war prep is required to declare WAR. You managed to eliminate the 2 hours that were necessary to declare war. You can claim ignorance, but you must have known it was wrong (or at least your leaders should have.) How doesn't that warrant the reinstatement of the states that were wrongfully killed. You already have double our numbers, why do you need even more help. Just get some of the states to tag up that you have "hiding" and you can have your advantage back.
@ Pron, you say there are lots of "shady" things going on in the game. Not reporting them makes you just as guilty as the person who is committing them.
I'm sick of the *****ing as well, but if pres did nothing SLOB *****es, if pres took action, LoR *****es. Nothing can ever be done to satisfy both sides.
A rollback of ALL the states involved, plus a severe bollocking of LOR would have sufficed.
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 21:12
That is why we make the TOS a "General" overview of the rules and handle each instance in a case by case manner, cause there is no way one rule can cover every instance...and then at the bottom of the TOS is clearly says:
"[SIZE=-1]19. - Do not try to cleverly circumvent some rule listed here. These rules are general guidelines and are very flexible.
Violations are either automatically dealt with, or looked at and dealt with on a case by case praxis. If you know about someone else that is cheating you have to report him/her. Not doing so will be treated as cheating and you will be subject to deletion. Violation of these simple rules may result in account deletion without prior notice and in some cases a permanent ban from the game. [B]These rules may be changed with or without notice to the user.
Vacation Mode is in my opinion clearly stated as well in and all by itself to be used by you when you are going on vacation not when being warred or declared upon where is the difference I dont see one.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:12
A rollback of ALL the states involved, plus a severe bollocking of LOR would have sufficed.
So basically you are punishing those who abused the loophole by slapping them on the hand and saying that wasn't very nice? And I'm assuming that you would be fine with letting the below situation be settled with a "bollocking"?
Like say you held the highest NW in the record book, but someone found a loophole and used it to beat your records.. I'm sure you would not be saying just plug the hole and move on..
EDIT: LoR already has double the states (double turns) of SLOB. Its not like Pres's decision is going to change the outcome of the war, so I don't see why it is such a big deal.
So basically you are punishing those who abused the loophole by slapping them on the hand and saying that wasn't very nice? And I'm assuming that you would be fine with letting the below situation be settled with a "bollocking"?
Yes.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:17
Vacation Mode is in my opinion clearly stated as well in and all by itself to be used by you when you are going on vacation not when being warred or declared upon where is the difference I dont see one.
Forgive my crappy memory and off topicness....did GRIM win that war or did PAIN?
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 21:19
EDIT: LoR already has double the states (double turns) of SLOB. Its not like Pres's decision is going to change the outcome of the war, so I don't see why it is such a big deal.
That my friend isnt the point its the principal of the matter at hand.
Forgive my crappy memory and off topicness....did GRIM win that war or did PAIN?
What difference does that make?
Forgive my crappy memory and off topicness....did GRIM win that war or did PAIN?
We did!
I think.
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 21:20
Forgive my crappy memory and off topicness....did GRIM win that war or did PAIN?
PAIN came out of vacation with even more allies and gave us a good ole fashion *** whoopin.
You can't possibly say that if SLOB used that loophole and killed your states before we were allowed to that you (LoR) wouldn't ***** too. I've never bashed LoR (try to find 1 post of mine where I did) but I know that LoR would be pissed if the SLOB states weren't deleted. Not just states restored and turns lost. I'm not sure why LoR is making a big deal about it. A war prep is required to declare WAR. You managed to eliminate the 2 hours that were necessary to declare war. You can claim ignorance, but you must have known it was wrong (or at least your leaders should have.) How doesn't that warrant the reinstatement of the states that were wrongfully killed. You already have double our numbers, why do you need even more help. Just get some of the states to tag up that you have "hiding" and you can have your advantage back.
We would say a lot, but I'm saying that the admin should restore the situation and penalize those that need to be, not penalize beyond what fairness calls for. I never said that the states shouldn't have been reinstated. I only said that my state should not have been punished.
And why do you think SLOB needs to have an Admin help them out? If you can't fight a war without an admin, don't declare.
@ Pron, you say there are lots of "shady" things going on in the game. Not reporting them makes you just as guilty as the person who is committing them.
I'm sick of the *****ing as well, but if pres did nothing SLOB *****es, if pres took action, LoR *****es. Nothing can ever be done to satisfy both sides.
First off, if you're going to say I'm cheating, you'd best back up your words son. The TOS says "If I know someone is cheating". I didn't say anyone was cheating. I said shady actions go down. As a global mod, maybe you should learn how to read, use a dictionary when you don't know if a word is a synonym, and shut your mouth when you don't know what you're talking about.
I never said Prez shouldn't do anything. I said Prez should have been more fair in his admin actions. That's it.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:23
Again I appologize for the randomness/offtopicness. But if you won the war then it doesn't really matter about the vacation arguement. Kind of like the situation is here. LoR will win the war, so what does it matter if they lost 600 turns.
Like I edited into my earlier post, no matter what action pres made he would piss someone off. Pres's decision will not affect the outcome of this war...LoR will win in a day or two.
I consider myself a very unbiased person, and I don't really see how LoR can argue this. So if I am missing something, I apologize.
EDIT: You guys are posting too fast I can't keep up lol
So basically you are punishing those who abused the loophole by slapping them on the hand and saying that wasn't very nice? And I'm assuming that you would be fine with letting the below situation be settled with a "bollocking"?
EDIT: LoR already has double the states (double turns) of SLOB. Its not like Pres's decision is going to change the outcome of the war, so I don't see why it is such a big deal.
this is a matter of principal. The size difference makes has no correlation. And if slob did that i highly doubt we would b!tch and complain as you guys did before the roll back. We think we have been treated unfair and are stating those reasons why.
And did you pay attention last set? We killed a few one man nations using that. I'm pretty sure you looked at the Exterior news and saw along with us killing restarts. Yet you said nothing of it then so that makes you equally as guilty. (and if not you i garuntee at least someone in slob saw it)
nice delete disorder.
Honorable...:rolleyes:
::LD::GrimReapr
07-07-2009, 21:30
Again I appologize for the randomness/offtopicness. But if you won the war then it doesn't really matter about the vacation arguement. Kind of like the situation is here. LoR will win the war, so what does it matter if they lost 600 turns.
Like I edited into my earlier post, no matter what action pres made he would piss someone off. Pres's decision will not affect the outcome of this war...LoR will win in a day or two.
I consider myself a very unbiased person, and I don't really see how LoR can argue this. So if I am missing something, I apologize.
EDIT: You guys are posting too fast I can't keep up lol
Read my post because I know by your response you didnt.
they came out of vacation with friends by friends I mean Anton and his crew and gave us a good ole fashion *** whoopin.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:32
We would say a lot, but I'm saying that the admin should restore the situation and penalize those that need to be, not penalize beyond what fairness calls for. I never said that the states shouldn't have been reinstated. I only said that my state should not have been punished.
And how does he penalize them then? Talk to each state individually and ask them if they knew what they were doing was wrong? You say penalize those that need be, wouldn't that include any state who made an attack on the two dead states?
First off, if you're going to say I'm cheating, you'd best back up your words son. The TOS says "If I know someone is cheating". I didn't say anyone was cheating. I said shady actions go down.
So what defines a "shady action" from cheating?
And how does he penalize them then? Talk to each state individually and ask them if they knew what they were doing was wrong? You say penalize those that need be, wouldn't that include any state who made an attack on the two dead states?
So what defines a "shady action" from cheating?
cheating:
multies, suiciding, hacking, anything that gets your state deleted/marked cheater
dodgy stuff:
Swapping GB, Vacation mode abuse, other abuse of loopholes that if caught doesn't result in deletion.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:36
this is a matter of principal. The size difference makes has no correlation. And if slob did that i highly doubt we would b!tch and complain as you guys did before the roll back. We think we have been treated unfair and are stating those reasons why.
And did you pay attention last set? We killed a few one man nations using that. I'm pretty sure you looked at the Exterior news and saw along with us killing restarts. Yet you said nothing of it then so that makes you equally as guilty. (and if not you i garuntee at least someone in slob saw it)
After you killed me I didn't bother being active in the game. So no I didn't see it. If I did then you bet I would have reported the loophole. I already make Mr P fix all the minor things....this is just one of the things that didn't get caught and became major.
Disorder
07-07-2009, 21:37
Haha.. Nice try ALI.. I still have 3 kills on yall today!! lollollollollollollollollollollol
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:40
dodgy stuff:
Swapping GB, Vacation mode abuse,
Alright I wasn't thinking of these things. Shady things made me think of bugs that I was unaware of.
If this is what you meant by shady things Pron, I apologize for calling you out.
So you think all loopholes are just shady activities that should be overlooked? You say this now, but if the tables were turned then I think you would be upset and want action.
And how does he penalize them then? Talk to each state individually and ask them if they knew what they were doing was wrong? You say penalize those that need be, wouldn't that include any state who made an attack on the two dead states?
If each case is to be analyzed case by case, then yes, prez should look into each and every state. IF he wants to be fair, he should address all the states--or just roll it back and punish the person declaring. I didn't declare. Explain to me why I should be punished in this situation.
If you reinstate the two dead states, then the only thing left is to punish the states that knowingly misused the principle. You need to prove that they knew about it, and they knew what they were doing was wrong. Can you do those for me?
So what defines a "shady action" from cheating?
Shady=GB trading, selling goods cheaply at end of set to help out the casher friend, putting spies in nations, suiciding (don't know how Patriot act is working right now so it's under shady), creating nations to use as bank while not in a nation, etc etc.
Cheating=using auto refresher, creating multiple accounts, using bots, etc etc.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:45
Read my post because I know by your response you didnt.
they came out of vacation with friends by friends I mean Anton and his crew and gave us a good ole fashion *** whoopin.
I wasn't fully active in the set when all the vacation wars were occurring. I wanted to avoid posting a comment about it in this thread because I'm not fully aware of both sides of the argument, but I felt brave and probably made myself look like an *** :blush:
I'm not sure when pres revised the TOS/Privacy Statement so I'm not sure what it said when this occurred. However, this is again the result of if pres acts and kicks them from vacation they are pissed, if he doesn't then you guys are pissed. Its always a lose/lose situation for him.
Poor pres ::pitty::
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:50
If each case is to be analyzed case by case, then yes, prez should look into each and every state. IF he wants to be fair, he should address all the states--or just roll it back and punish the person declaring. I didn't declare. Explain to me why I should be punished in this situation.
If you reinstate the two dead states, then the only thing left is to punish the states that knowingly misused the principle. You need to prove that they knew about it, and they knew what they were doing was wrong. Can you do those for me?
So you want him to take the time to personally contact each state that made an attack? By the time he talks to 2 people it will be passed along to play ignorant about the rule so that turns are restored. There is no logical way to talk to each state and to know that they are telling the truth.
There isn't 1 way to punish an offender without pissing off another person in the same nation. If pres punished the people who "knowingly misused the principle" then I know there would be someone upset at that because its not fair.
@ Disorder: Nice delete lol
Alright I wasn't thinking of these things. Shady things made me think of bugs that I was unaware of.
If this is what you meant by shady things Pron, I apologize for calling you out.
So you think all loopholes are just shady activities that should be overlooked? You say this now, but if the tables were turned then I think you would be upset and want action.
Most loopholes are, yes. One or two are more serious, but in these cases it should be clearly identified that using them will result in state deletion, rather than a somewhat ambiguous "it's against the rules" when not updating the TOS/Patriot Act.
Alright I wasn't thinking of these things. Shady things made me think of bugs that I was unaware of.
If this is what you meant by shady things Pron, I apologize for calling you out.
So you think all loopholes are just shady activities that should be overlooked? You say this now, but if the tables were turned then I think you would be upset and want action.
Np Crimson. <3 you :)
I'm not saying no action. I'm saying fair action. It seems like Prez is adopting your same stance--"It's not a big deal because LOR will win anyways". Which is wrong.
An admin shouldn't affect the game, no matter the predetermined result. He should aim for fairness to each and every player. The SLOB players got reinstated. If Prez rolled back all the LOR states--it would have been completely even, as if nothing happened. Fix the loop, and nothing can happen in the future with it. If he thinks the person's responsible will try to push the envelope and abuse loopholes, then he should punish those. Deletion would be extreme in this case, as the TOS doesn't have it and not everyone checks all forum postings. Something in between nothing and what Prez did is what should have happened, but Prez (imo) overstepped his bounds as admin and gave an advantage.
Also, it matters to me because my state effectively loses 300 turns. Anyone would be upset by that if you're trying to have a strong state in a war.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 21:58
Most loopholes are, yes. One or two are more serious, but in these cases it should be clearly identified that using them will result in state deletion, rather than a somewhat ambiguous "it's against the rules" when not updating the TOS/Patriot Act.
See this is what I can't follow. Pres is supposed to know ahead of time what the loophole will be and then put it in the TOS? If he puts in "If you use a serious loophole you will be deleted," then how do you define serious?
Sorry if I'm not understanding what your posting...I'm going on low hours of sleep from watching my state all night and I'm tired lol
@ Disorder: Nice delete lol
yea because deleting your state at very low land so you won't get killed because you can't stonewall further robbing LoR and a state of a kill.
I consider that a loophole and stat padding.
See this is what I can't follow. Pres is supposed to know ahead of time what the loophole will be and then put it in the TOS? If he puts in "If you use a serious loophole you will be deleted," then how do you define serious?
Sorry if I'm not understanding what your posting...I'm going on low hours of sleep from watching my state all night and I'm tired lol
No, I mean that once a loophole has been identified, and deemed serious enough to warrant punishment, then either it needs to be put in the TOS, or added to the Patriot act, which I think should be expanded to include "non-cheating" offences (Suciding, Vacation Mode, Retaliations) Such things warrant punishment, but only if it is clearly defined and an update that is now what, 6 months old? isn't doing that.
Basically the TOS should deal with obvious cheating (multies, bots, hacking etc) and the PA should deal with other forms of bad behaviour.
northbabylon
07-07-2009, 22:03
I just spent the last 1/2 hour catching up...i gotta say LoR is doing more *****ing than and slob state did. We noticed a loophole, we reported it end of story. You guys are going to win the war anyway so who ****ing cares? its 600 turns. 2 states out of 21. So its 19 vs 10 for about a day.
Pron, your hillarious you really crack me up. You can't tell me that you thought it was wrong. If that was the case everyone would declare retaliations when they wanted to war.
@everyone
It wasn't reported last set cause no one noticed it or said anything. This set, you did it and we noticed it. Hence why it was reported.
Abusing loopholes should be punished...losing a days worth of turns is a slap on the wrist.
Also, did you guys not kick a member to SA him? hmm, isn't taht a shady tactic that you mentioned?
I love how you guys are attacking pres for this. You guys know you where wrong there is no way. This could have been a fun war, yet this whole loophole thing was blown out of proportion.
Now, would you rather pres give you your turns and delete the nation leaders states? it would hurt you guys a lot more than just losing 600 turns.
See this is what I can't follow. Pres is supposed to know ahead of time what the loophole will be and then put it in the TOS? If he puts in "If you use a serious loophole you will be deleted," then how do you define serious?
Sorry if I'm not understanding what your posting...I'm going on low hours of sleep from watching my state all night and I'm tired lol
Prez already stated, previous to this set, that using the declaration as a way to war was not allowed, but he only posted it in the forums, not the TOS. It's impossible to see every loophole, but it is possible to put it in the TOS after seeing it.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 22:07
Np Crimson. <3 you :)
I'm not saying no action. I'm saying fair action. It seems like Prez is adopting your same stance--"It's not a big deal because LOR will win anyways". Which is wrong.
An admin shouldn't affect the game, no matter the predetermined result. He should aim for fairness to each and every player.
Stopping you here for a second...I think Pres is the most fairest players to have as an admin. He does what he thinks is right and of course there will be one side that figures him to be biased because of his decison.
The SLOB players got reinstated. If Prez rolled back all the LOR states--it would have been completely even, as if nothing happened. Fix the loop, and nothing can happen in the future with it. If he thinks the person's responsible will try to push the envelope and abuse loopholes, then he should punish those.
Stopping here again. I'm not trying to bash LoR here, but they have a history of pushing the envelope. That is their reputation. If there is a gray area they will go there to see what happens. By your reasoning, LoR has a history of doing things like this, so he is punishing them.
Deletion would be extreme in this case, as the TOS doesn't have it and not everyone checks all forum postings. Something in between nothing and what Prez did is what should have happened, but Prez (imo) overstepped his bounds as admin and gave an advantage.
I'm not a fan of deletion. In this situation it would have cost Devil/Ali both 1000 turn states, not just the 700 it took to kill the 2 in this situation.
yea because deleting your state at very low land so you won't get killed because you can't stonewall further robbing LoR and a state of a kill.
I consider that a loophole and stat padding.
lol
north you forgot to mention kicked the state while he was being attacked if I remember correctly
I just spent the last 1/2 hour catching up...i gotta say LoR is doing more *****ing than and slob state did. We noticed a loophole, we reported it end of story. You guys are going to win the war anyway so who ****ing cares? its 600 turns. 2 states out of 21. So its 19 vs 10 for about a day.
Pron, your hillarious you really crack me up. You can't tell me that you thought it was wrong. If that was the case everyone would declare retaliations when they wanted to war.
@everyone
It wasn't reported last set cause no one noticed it or said anything. This set, you did it and we noticed it. Hence why it was reported.
Abusing loopholes should be punished...losing a days worth of turns is a slap on the wrist.
Also, did you guys not kick a member to SA him? hmm, isn't taht a shady tactic that you mentioned?
I love how you guys are attacking pres for this. You guys know you where wrong there is no way. This could have been a fun war, yet this whole loophole thing was blown out of proportion.
Now, would you rather pres give you your turns and delete the nation leaders states? it would hurt you guys a lot more than just losing 600 turns.
So what would happen if another nation jumps in to help SLOB? Then those lost 600 turns matter a great deal more.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 22:13
Prez already stated, previous to this set, that using the declaration as a way to war was not allowed, but he only posted it in the forums, not the TOS. It's impossible to see every loophole, but it is possible to put it in the TOS after seeing it.
I will give you that...Pres did post that in the forums, where inactive players could have missed it, but if it was that simple to just declare war and attack immediately, why didn't SLOB do it. Why declare and wait an hour?
Perhaps it is time to update the Patriot Act and TOS again.
@Pres: If you want me to I have some down time right now so I can help out rewriting if need be.
Disorder
07-07-2009, 22:17
yea because deleting your state at very low land so you won't get killed because you can't stonewall further robbing LoR and a state of a kill.
I consider that a loophole and stat padding.
::rain:: <<<THATS DEVIL AND ALI..
:P:P:Plollollol:P:P:P
Pres,
I have to agree and disagree with you.
There already is a loophole that people exploit every round to get the top spots, and only those players that have been playing a while and who know the loop holes will ever get those top spots.
In my case if I ever get the top spot (which is unlikely because Im a fighter and not a lover) I wouldnt mind someone beating my score.
but if that person used a loop hole and beat my top score, still I wouldnt mind, I am not here to hold the coveted top spot on NW for forever, records are meant to be broken and if someone found a way to break it then all be it.
Now I can see how someone who is a complainer would feel that they were robbed and would ask for that state to be deleted because they are gonna cry their hearts out over it.
And yes I would ask that maybe the state not have its top score recorded, or have an asterisk put next to its name or something, but do not penalize someone for your mistakes. If you coded the game and tested it properly , then their should be no loopholes am i right? In fact you should offer rewards to players that find loop holes.
All in all i think i am rambling and i forgot what my original intented post was going to be, but ill think about it later...
::rain:: <<<THATS DEVIL AND ALI..
:P:P:Plollollol:P:P:P
Wow you exploited a loop hole, i say we get our turns back and you get declared a cheater
I just spent the last 1/2 hour catching up...i gotta say LoR is doing more *****ing than and slob state did. We noticed a loophole, we reported it end of story. You guys are going to win the war anyway so who ****ing cares? its 600 turns. 2 states out of 21. So its 19 vs 10 for about a day.
Pron, your hillarious you really crack me up. You can't tell me that you thought it was wrong. If that was the case everyone would declare retaliations when they wanted to war.
@everyone
It wasn't reported last set cause no one noticed it or said anything. This set, you did it and we noticed it. Hence why it was reported.
If you're gonna say you read to catch up, you should probably catch up properly before talking about it.
1. I care, it's my state, and you would complain if you lost 300 turns for something you knew nothing about. If you can somehow explain to me where I knew about it, and if you want to prove that I'm lying--feel free to try.
2. You're looking at fairness in the war--I'm looking for fairness in an admin acting on individual states.
3. There are lots of things that I think are wrong with this game, but we play with them anyways. Read the shady vs cheating part of the discussion.
4. I never said it wasn't wrong. I never said that it shouldn't be punished. I'm saying that the admin overstepped in punishing states that didn't know about it. I'm saying that the admins should abide by the TOS, not by forum postings.
Abusing loopholes should be punished...losing a days worth of turns is a slap on the wrist.
Agreed--except it was not just one days worth of turns, it was 800 turns lost. Admin overstepped. I don't care if it was a slap on the wrist in the big picture, are you slapping the right wrists? In this case, no.
Also, did you guys not kick a member to SA him? hmm, isn't that a shady tactic that you mentioned?
I never said LOR didn't do shady things. LOL--that would be impossible to defend. But I'm saying Prez lets a lot of shady things go in this game. Also, I didn't SA that state. Again, I'm not all of LOR.
I love how you guys are attacking pres for this. You guys know you where wrong there is no way. This could have been a fun war, yet this whole loophole thing was blown out of proportion.
Now, would you rather pres give you your turns and delete the nation leaders states? it would hurt you guys a lot more than just losing 600 turns.
Seriously, understand the arguments before posting. I never said there wasn't wrong done. I'm saying that Prez overstepped in punishing those that didn't know anything about it. I'm saying he shouldn't punish severely because it wasn't in the TOS. Because he messed up in the TOS, and because he decided to roll back the SLOB states, he should have rolled back our turns as well. If he thought people were continually abusive, then punish those, but it's silly to reinstate one side, and leave the other in this case.
you know about these loopholes so have you reported them so they can be corrected??????
never fails everytime one is discovered someone goes complaining about others but yet they don't report them so they can be fixed..
The one in this case was discovered, properly reported, looked into and action takin.....
holy crap!
The sooner you realize that ONE person owns this game and what he sais goes the better YOU will all be.
If you didnt know that declaring retal before preps are done then you should just delete your state and move on.
Just to be clear I asked for the deletion of both online leaders and all 4 states that hit SLOB before prep was over. I didnt get my why but when the gavel came down, and "all we got" was two reinstated states instead of what I thought was fair you didnt see me write a book about it. Coming from half the nation of LOR (member wise) I still didnt *****. I wasnt looking for an advantage, I was looking for fair and IT DOESNT MATTER if I think or dont think I got it. It is what it is...
Pron your argument is BS, and if you continue it only shows you to be a cry baby.
Will stop playing devils advocate....literally and figuratively. lol
One more... Pron I dont think its FAIR i just had to read all that BS, but its my job, so I will deal with it because I RESPECT all the work MR. P has put in so that I can kill a few minutes a day escaping from RL. thank you MR. P. would be more like it, not FU Mr. P.
Stopping you here for a second...I think Pres is the most fairest players to have as an admin. He does what he thinks is right and of course there will be one side that figures him to be biased because of his decison.
I'm not saying Prez is inherently unfair. I'm saying he's unfair in this action, and I think I'm allowed to call him out on that. Prez is an amazing admin--but not in this case. You can chalk it up to me just being biased because I'm on LOR's side--but I think I make a **** good argument, and no one seems to be able to say otherwise.
Stopping here again. I'm not trying to bash LoR here, but they have a history of pushing the envelope. That is their reputation. If there is a gray area they will go there to see what happens. By your reasoning, LoR has a history of doing things like this, so he is punishing them.
Again, you can't take actions on a singular state based on other state's actions. That's not fair to the one state. If an admin is going to be fair, they need to look at each individual state. If a lot of states are involved, it might be best to roll every state involved back and fix the loophole.
I'm not a fan of deletion. In this situation it would have cost Devil/Ali both 1000 turn states, not just the 700 it took to kill the 2 in this situation.
lol
Which is why I've said repeatedly that deletion would be extreme in this case. It needed to be in the TOS for deletion to come into effect.
@ BB--putting a forum posting is not proper action. Putting it into the TOS would have been proper action.
well pron what do you think proper action is for allt he lor states that come in here and post they know about loopholes but yet they fail to report them...
I hope your fingers cramp up with all the wasted typing you are doing...NOTHING more will come of this except I guess he will add it to the TOS next time.
Your argument has the smallest leg to stand on... If your boys over there didnt know they were doing something wrong maybe you could TRANSLATE it for them since you all speak RETARD!
Disorder
07-07-2009, 22:36
Can we setup a new thread for the cry babies? ::pitty::
holy crap!
The sooner you realize that ONE person owns this game and what he sais goes the better YOU will all be.
If you didnt know that declaring retal before preps are done then you should just delete your state and move on.
Just to be clear I asked for the deletion of both online leaders and all 4 states that hit SLOB before prep was over. I didnt get my why but when the gavel came down, and "all we got" was two reinstated states instead of what I thought was fair you didnt see me write a book about it. Coming from half the nation of LOR (member wise) I still didnt *****. I wasnt looking for an advantage, I was looking for fair and IT DOESNT MATTER if I think or dont think I got it. It is what it is...
Pron your argument is BS, and if you continue it only shows you to be a cry baby.
Will stop playing devils advocate....literally and figuratively. lol
One more... Pron I dont think its FAIR i just had to read all that BS, but its my job, so I will deal with it because I RESPECT all the work MR. P has put in so that I can kill a few minutes a day escaping from RL. thank you MR. P. would be more like it, not FU Mr. P.
I've never said the situation shouldn't be fixed appropriately. If you need an Admin to fight your wars, then you should delete and move on.
If you think my argument is BS, then prove it. Otherwise you're just another voice without anything behind it.
I hope your fingers cramp up with all the wasted typing you are doing...NOTHING more will come of this except I guess he will add it to the TOS next time.
Your argument has the smallest leg to stand on... If your boys over there didnt know they were doing something wrong maybe you could TRANSLATE it for them since you all speak RETARD!
Good thing you're a mod on this forum. I feel safe that you'll judge things fairly.
well pron what do you think proper action is for allt he lor states that come in here and post they know about loopholes but yet they fail to report them...
Well, "all the LOR states" has been one state, and Prez should ask what the loophole is and deal with that situation how the TOS says he should deal with it.
northbabylon
07-07-2009, 22:41
If you're gonna say you read to catch up, you should probably catch up properly before talking about it.
[QUOTE]1. I care, it's my state, and you would complain if you lost 300 turns for something you knew nothing about. If you can somehow explain to me where I knew about it, and if you want to prove that I'm lying--feel free to try.
Thats where the argument where its your leaders or you. I think losing 600 turns is a small loss when it comes to exploiting a loophole. Maybe you didn't know about it, but your leaders did. Like i said, would you rather lose 300 turns or would you rather delete your leaders states?
2. You're looking at fairness in the war--I'm looking for fairness in an admin acting on individual states.
He did what he thought was fair. You guys (LoR) exploited a loophole, if we wanted to hit as soon as we declared we would have declared retaliations as well.
3. There are lots of things that I think are wrong with this game, but we play with them anyways. Read the shady vs cheating part of the discussion.
4. I never said it wasn't wrong. I never said that it shouldn't be punished. I'm saying that the admin overstepped in punishing states that didn't know about it. I'm saying that the admins should abide by the TOS, not by forum postings.
Its kind of common sense...Just think about it for a second...
Pron, you have been playing this game a long time, both you and I know that. You just have to think for a second....whats the point of declaring for war and preps, if it can be turned around by the opposing nation just declaring retals.
Agreed--except it was not just one days worth of turns, it was 800 turns lost. Admin overstepped. I don't care if it was a slap on the wrist in the big picture, are you slapping the right wrists? In this case, no.
Sometimes you gotta go past the boundaries to prove a point. Now everyone knows that if you think its a loophole, don't exploit it.
I never said LOR didn't do shady things. LOL--that would be impossible to defend. But I'm saying Prez lets a lot of shady things go in this game. Also, I didn't SA that state. Again, I'm not all of LOR.
When i said 'you guys' i meant LOR :P
Seriously, understand the arguments before posting. I never said there wasn't wrong done. I'm saying that Prez overstepped in punishing those that didn't know anything about it. I'm saying he shouldn't punish severely because it wasn't in the TOS. Because he messed up in the TOS, and because he decided to roll back the SLOB states, he should have rolled back our turns as well. If he thought people were continually abusive, then punish those, but it's silly to reinstate one side, and leave the other in this case.
If people didn't get punished for exploiting loopholes, and knew everytime they exploited one all that would happen is their states would be rolled back...isn't really helping the cause.
So what your saying and basing your entire argument on is this.
Because I have never seen the actual law that states I cannot kill another human being than I should not be punished for it, and if I do get punished for it were I see unfit, I should go on the forums and hijack a thread to get attension.
Jump off a cliff CHEATER!
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 22:45
Prez should ask what the loophole is
Why is it always pres's responsibility to initiate the conversation. If something is known it should be brought up to him. I doubt with work and RL, that he has the time to track down everyone and talk to them about loopholes. I know this doesn't really have any real argument about what your saying now but everytime it seems all night you have been implying that pres has to talk to people first. If you feel you are wronged or know something that is going on that shouldnt, don't you need to talk to him.
You don't expect the police to come to your house because they are checking randomly for problems...you call them when there is an issue. :p
@andy: you almost got the quote thing right lol:p
northbabylon
07-07-2009, 22:46
I've never said the situation shouldn't be fixed appropriately. If you need an Admin to fight your wars, then you should delete and move on.
If you think my argument is BS, then prove it. Otherwise you're just another voice without anything behind it.
We didn't declare war planning on pres 'fighting our wars'
northbabylon
07-07-2009, 22:49
So what your saying and basing your entire argument on is this.
Because I have never seen the actual law that states I cannot kill another human being than I should not be punished for it, and if I do get punished for it were I see unfit, I should go on the forums and hijack a thread to get attension.
Jump off a cliff CHEATER!
Actually in some instances, if the offender doesn't know its a law. Nothing like murder, or arson or theft. They can be released since the knew no knowledge of such law. Like driving and talking on your cellphone for instance...some states its legal, others its illegal.
NEVER EVER if a federal law is broken. I have never heard of such a thing done in court by any judge.
northbabylon
07-07-2009, 22:54
Thats a federal law :P hence why i ruled those out.
So what your saying and basing your entire argument on is this.
Because I have never seen the actual law that states I cannot kill another human being than I should not be punished for it, and if I do get punished for it were I see unfit, I should go on the forums and hijack a thread to get attension.
Jump off a cliff CHEATER!
Lets get down to it...
If you were reported via the Cheater Report System, and your case was reviewed and you were punished in any way shape of form (in your case the loss of turns) then you are a cheater.
So? Are you a cheater or are you not a cheater. If you were punished you are a cheater, if you were not punished then I guess you can keep your "clean slate"
Whether you think your right or wrong matters not, you were in the wrong, and you are wrong, and thats all that pretty much counts...
Thats a federal law :P hence why i ruled those out.
your going to have to prove the state law thing to me some other time...until then I strongly dout it. If you are caught in MD for driving while texting for example you may be let off by the officer or the court may not have enough evidense to convict you of the crime, but I can IMAGINE they would ever say "well you didnt know it was against the law so we HAVE TO LET YOU OFF."
BTW why is SLOB owning a nation over double their size on day two of a strike LOR was "ready" for? 7-7 for now.
I expect LOR to pick up the pace, but this is a CLEAR victory for SLOB!
kenshin44
07-07-2009, 23:00
The thing that, I feel was most unfair, is not what other LoR states claim. I think making a verdict without even hearing our side of the story is bull****. People who are convicted and caught red handed in murder are still taking to trial and asked motive and what not, I know this is a game, but since when do we just listen to the report look at the "retaliation" and decide.
All this tactic really achieved was a few more LoR dead states, and the prolong death of SLOB.
I suggest that we stop talking about this, as i know that nothing is going to be done to reverse the actions that have taken place. What i do suggest is that next time both side of the story is heard before the verdict.
The thing that, I feel was most unfair, is not what other LoR states claim. I think making a verdict without even hearing our side of the story is bull****. People who are convicted and caught red handed in murder are still taking to trial and asked motive and what not, I know this is a game, but since when do we just listen to the report look at the "retaliation" and decide.
All this tactic really achieved was a few more LoR dead states, and the prolong death of SLOB.
I suggest that we stop talking about this, as i know that nothing is going to be done to reverse the actions that have taken place. What i do suggest is that next time both side of the story is heard before the verdict.
Now that IS and argument that completely pwns Prons BS. Followed by the best "statement" I have read tonight...
It is possible that since it was the middle of a stike/war that a hasty descision was made in the best possible "pinch" judgement.
Agree or Disagree with the Verdict we all should be thanking Mr P not disrespecting him, by calling him flat out wrong in public on the forums that HE pays for allows us to post on.
If you odnt like something and want to say something directly too him then send him a pm. ;) He'll thank me for it...:confused: help:::
Thats where the argument where its your leaders or you. I think losing 600 turns is a small loss when it comes to exploiting a loophole. Maybe you didn't know about it, but your leaders did. Like i said, would you rather lose 300 turns or would you rather delete your leaders states?
Neither is an acceptable option for me. Like I said, something in between what was done and nothing is what should have been done.
He did what he thought was fair. You guys (LoR) exploited a loophole, if we wanted to hit as soon as we declared we would have declared retaliations as well.
Its kind of common sense...Just think about it for a second...
Pron, you have been playing this game a long time, both you and I know that. You just have to think for a second....whats the point of declaring for war and preps, if it can be turned around by the opposing nation just declaring retals. [/quote]
We have been playing this game for awhile, and we both know that there are "shady" things that are done. Think about this for a second--I haven't been around for awhile. I wasn't here when retal function was added. I don't know how nations have used it, or how it has been accepted. It's entirely plausible that people have accepted it to be used when war has been declared on a nation (because it's tough to rally a strike force in 2 hours, and it would weaken the effects of a FS and most people in the declaring nation will be online to strike). It makes entire sense to use it in the way it was used--if people say it's ok. How am I supposed to know it's not ok if I haven't been around?
Sometimes you gotta go past the boundaries to prove a point. Now everyone knows that if you think its a loophole, don't exploit it.
Unless it's a one time offense. Do you know of LOR people that repeatedly exploit loopholes?
When i said 'you guys' i meant LOR :P
Stop that. :P I'm an individual!!! :)
If people didn't get punished for exploiting loopholes, and knew everytime they exploited one all that would happen is their states would be rolled back...isn't really helping the cause.
Which is why Prez should use discretion about individual states and their past actions.
So what your saying and basing your entire argument on is this.
Because I have never seen the actual law that states I cannot kill another human being than I should not be punished for it, and if I do get punished for it were I see unfit, I should go on the forums and hijack a thread to get attension.
Jump off a cliff CHEATER!
You're not doing a very good job of using an analogy.
If we use the law portion of this, then it's not about seeing the law. It's about whether it's a law on the "books" or not. The forums is not the "books". The TOS is the "books". You can't be punished by a law that isn't a law.
I didn't hijack the thread. Prez posted first.
PS--have you been drinking Maggio? Normally you're level headed.
Why is it always pres's responsibility to initiate the conversation. If something is known it should be brought up to him. I doubt with work and RL, that he has the time to track down everyone and talk to them about loopholes. I know this doesn't really have any real argument about what your saying now but everytime it seems all night you have been implying that pres has to talk to people first. If you feel you are wronged or know something that is going on that shouldnt, don't you need to talk to him.
You don't expect the police to come to your house because they are checking randomly for problems...you call them when there is an issue. :p
@andy: you almost got the quote thing right lol:p
Are there really that many loopholes that Prez needs to be on night and date asking about them? I think it's a mod's job to let prez knows that someone mentioned a loophole that hasn't been dealt with. Then prez should ask the member who posted in the forums about it. That's just this situation though...
Lets get down to it...
If you were reported via the Cheater Report System, and your case was reviewed and you were punished in any way shape of form (in your case the loss of turns) then you are a cheater.
So? Are you a cheater or are you not a cheater. If you were punished you are a cheater, if you were not punished then I guess you can keep your "clean slate"
Whether you think your right or wrong matters not, you were in the wrong, and you are wrong, and thats all that pretty much counts...
To be a cheater, you have to be a cheater according to the TOS. There are lots of ways that people could call cheating (see "Shady" discussion). The TOS is the determining factor.
Now that IS and argument that completely pwns Prons BS. Followed by the best "statement" I have read tonight...
It is possible that since it was the middle of a stike/war that a hasty descision was made in the best possible "pinch" judgement.
Agree or Disagree with the Verdict we all should be thanking Mr P not disrespecting him, by calling him flat out wrong in public on the forums that HE pays for allows us to post on.
If you odnt like something and want to say something directly too him then send him a pm. ;) He'll thank me for it...:confused: help:::
I started out by PM'ing Prez, to which he stopped sending me PM's back. I was most respectful in those PM's, and there was no reason for him to not PM me back. Then he came on the forums and posted here, so I responded to it.
PS--have you been drinking Maggio? Normally you're level headed.
no your just driving me crazy with your weak arguement...
you were punished in your own words...you must have been punished for something? breaking the rules perhaps?
I didnt read the PMs you sent him, but its evident to me that you see no reason, and have little logic. You knew you were at the very least bending the rules ( i guess taht would be shady not cheating?) so what your deal. whats your real point. On the actual real subject of the argument are you right or wrong. You were "punished" (more than fairly in my eyes) so you must have been found wrong.
Crimson Shadow
07-07-2009, 23:21
Are there really that many loopholes that Prez needs to be on night and date asking about them?
Didn't know pres was dating the loopholes :p
I think it's a mod's job to let prez knows that someone mentioned a loophole that hasn't been dealt with. Then prez should ask the member who posted in the forums about it. That's just this situation though...
Again, you are placing responsibility on everyone except who needs it. Responsibility lies with the people who discover the loophole or see others who are using it. Yes if it comes on the forums then I will immediately let pres know about it. But it shouldn't be mine, nor anyone elses responsibility just because they have a title before their name.
@Ali: +rep for your response. That argument I buy and respect. It was a hasty decision, but when a major problem arises it is human nature to overreact and act immediately. Pres is only human.
no your just driving me crazy with your weak arguement...
you were punished in your own words...you must have been punished for something? breaking the rules perhaps?
I was punished for something that I knew nothing about because it was on the forums and not the TOS. If it's not in the TOS, it's not "the rules". It wasn't even in the "game news" options where most of this stuff goes.
If you're calling me a cheater, you'd best prove it Maggio. Cause I'm arguing I shouldn't have been punished for something I didn't know about, and could very well have been a legit thing.
I have plenty of logic actually, it's just that you're biased towards anything LOR. You'd be just fine with LOR not playing, not being around, and LOR being punished for just being LOR.
My real point--punishment should be fair and directed at those who deserved it. Once your states were restored, I no longer deserved it for doing something I knew nothing about.
@ Crimson--
Yes, prez goes on lots of dates with loopholes lol
Yep--I agree, people should tell when they find a loophole. However, if they come on the forum talking about it, and it hasn't been reported, then it's obvious they won't be reporting it, and then it becomes a policing action by mods and admin.
You did something wrong. You were punished in your own words. This means you are a CHEATER! You cheated. That is all the proof anyone needs.
Now if you dont think you were punished then I guess you didnt cheat?
Its already been proven. Your case was reviewed and you were handed down a guilty sentence. Since you wanted to be big and bad and point out your own crime when no one was even looking at you as a cheater you must take your medicine.
Now if you were not punished, then clearly state is so.
You did something wrong. You were punished in your own words. This means you are a CHEATER! You cheated. That is all the proof anyone needs.
Now if you dont think you were punished then I guess you didnt cheat?
Its already been proven. Your case was reviewed and you were handed down a guilty sentence. Since you wanted to be big and bad and point out your own crime when no one was even looking at you as a cheater you must take your medicine.
Now if you were not punished, then clearly state is so.
People can be punished, but still have not done anything wrong...You do understand that there are such things as "undeserved punishment" or "wrongly punished"? Really, I need to explain this to you?
Your definition of the "rules" and what is "right or wrong" doesnt really matter does it? Dont worry Mine Neither. None of us have the right to say. None of us sacrafise like Mr. P. does. None of us pay as much money, or time, or effort for the sake of others.
I would love to see a public appology from you for flat out calling Mr. P wrong umong other accusations. Your just a plain jerk straight up.
How about I do it for you? I am sorry Mike, I dont know how you do it. You give and you give and they take and take some more. If you shut down the game I would understand. Being called out by people when all you do is try your best. Learn computer laungages you have never seen before last year, quitting your nation just to focus on others. Spending less time with your loved ones for these pukes. How do you do it? How do you put up with the disrepect, the constant nagging, the long days and longer nights. No wonder you cant focus on trying to get new players when you have to deal with all these "vets" crying wolf all the time.
Your definition of the "rules" and what is "right or wrong" doesnt really matter does it? Dont worry Mine Neither. None of us have the right to say. None of us sacrafise like Mr. P. does. None of us pay as much money, or time, or effort for the sake of others.
I would love to see a public appology from you for flat out calling Mr. P wrong umong other accusations. Your just a plain jerk straight up.
How about I do it for you? I am sorry Mike, I dont know how you do it. You give and you give and they take and take some more. If you shut down the game I would understand. Being called out by people when all you do is try your best. Learn computer laungages you have never seen before last year, quitting your nation just to focus on others. Spending less time with your loved ones for these pukes. How do you do it? How do you put up with the disrepect, the constant nagging, the long days and longer nights. No wonder you cant focus on trying to get new players when you have to deal with all these "vets" crying wolf all the time.
What, are you done with the whole "cheater" argument?
No one is beyond reproach--I don't care if they own this game or not. Mr. P is mature enough to know that, why can't you? I will continue to flat out call Mr. P wrong, because I believe he is wrong and I won't be silent just because he owns the game. That's a weak argument lol.
I have also not resorted to name calling, which you have twice now. You really should not be a mod with the way you carry out conversation in this post. Who should I talk to about that?
I give Mr. P all the respect in the world, and he knows that. But not in this instance, and I should be allowed to voice that.
If you have a problem with a mod or an admin you should contact BB
Or else they will get really pissy about it and offended
Legion of Riot[LoR] has declared Retaliation on Sneaky Little Old Bastards[SLOB]
Reason: i think a retal is in order for warring us
Ain`t nothing said about breaking your precious policy. But I didn`t expect Raul to actually think of a 'good' excuse. It`s Raul after all
well its not my fault we sended Ali to post reason :P
and if it had been you that it happened to you uld not shut up till something was done about it..... and we have been down that road before.... Personally I feel the offending states should have been deleted and tagged cheater seeing as they knew there was a loophole prior to being caught using it..... But does explain all devils questions last set concerning the retaliation feature...
no my lady, loopholes, when found, shouldnt be punished, they should be closed, and so next time they dont happen...or at least, u could have voted for it, i think mayority would have voted no reinstate or at least return of turns
Yes it is possible to kill a state in the retal function, but it must be a legitimate retal. If there had been an illegal attack on LoR states and you decided to kill that state, dead state, no problem. Come on, you found something you thought would be to your advantage and got caught, just man up and take it, you are still winning the war, big fat hairy deal. You just got mad because you didn't get FS, so what, no big deal.
what exactly is a legitimate retal?? or a illegall attack??
EDIT: LoR already has double the states (double turns) of SLOB. Its not like Pres's decision is going to change the outcome of the war, so I don't see why it is such a big deal.
power abuse?
the appropriate way to do things
1. contact the game admin (tnova) if you have an issue with the game.
2. contact the forum admin (BB) if you have an issue with the forums.
Dont go blabbing off at the mouth on the forums when you dont get your way. They are not some sort of customer service company either. You have no right to demand a time line concerning communication. You know all admins have 40+hr jobs and families so I sure they are so so sorry if your wittle feewings get hurt because they dont focus all on you when they are getting dozens of PM/s per day.
and by your own definition of punishement you are a cheater.
Lastly...If you didnt think it was wrong to bypass the preparations, then you should have more common sense, and a greater level of honor and prestige on the battle field. Now if you just a little puppet of Devil and Ali then go blame them for you being punished.
Flat out your pointing the finger in the wrong direction and in the wrong place.
For the record, I didnt reference the TOS when deciding on whether or not it was ok for me to bypass declarations or not. I knew it was wrong in more than one way. If you dont have the common sense to know it was wrong that is your own fault and you actually may deserve more than you got.
8-8 on the score chart on day three, SLOB definatly won this one considering the odds.
the appropriate way to do things
1. contact the game admin (tnova) if you have an issue with the game.
2. contact the forum admin (BB) if you have an issue with the forums.
I did contact an Admin in PM--they ignored me, and then they posted in the forums. I see that as fair game to post in the forums.
Dont go blabbing off at the mouth on the forums when you dont get your way. They are not some sort of customer service company either. You have no right to demand a time line concerning communication. You know all admins have 40+hr jobs and families so I sure they are so so sorry if your wittle feewings get hurt because they dont focus all on you when they are getting dozens of PM/s per day.
Yea--the one time I press an issue in two years to Mr. P, and now I'm a whiner and pressing Mr. P too hard. I'm sure.
and by your own definition of punishement you are a cheater.
Seriously, is anyone else understanding this argument? Cause I'm just not seeing it.
Lastly...If you didnt think it was wrong to bypass the preparations, then you should have more common sense, and a greater level of honor and prestige on the battle field. Now if you just a little puppet of Devil and Ali then go blame them for you being punished.
There are plenty of dishonorable things done in this game (see "Shady"). Just cause you guys got hit on this one, suddenly it's cheating? Please. I gave good reasons why it would be considered ok to use retal as a way to hit when someone declares war. Would you care to actually argue what I say instead of just saying the same thing over and over again?
Flat out your pointing the finger in the wrong direction and in the wrong place.
Mr. P is the admin who stepped over his bounds as admin. I've said that it should have been made right, not over corrected as Mr. P did.
For the record, I didnt reference the TOS when deciding on whether or not it was ok for me to bypass declarations or not. I knew it was wrong in more than one way. If you dont have the common sense to know it was wrong that is your own fault and you actually may deserve more than you got.
For the record, I'm glad you don't work for law enforcement or the courts of law, because you would be terrible. You obviously can't argue according to any standards, form an argument that refutes your opponents arguments, and you don't consult the "law" of NW in order to decide if a rule was broken. There's a list of rules for a reason.
8-8 on the score chart on day three, SLOB definatly won this one considering the odds.
LOL--we've killed two people twice, and disorder deleted. Kills are 11-8.
Disorder
07-08-2009, 09:38
LOL--we've killed two people twice, and disorder deleted. Kills are 11-8.[/QUOTE]
Show me where you have killed DISORDER.. I believe you were denied that.. DJ:::
Kills stand at 8 to 8.
LOL--we've killed two people twice, and disorder deleted. Kills are 11-8.
Show me where you have killed DISORDER.. I believe you were denied that.. DJ:::
Kills stand at 8 to 8.[/QUOTE]
See, now we are getting people in the WAR mindset, I'll delete before i let you bastards kill me, I like it, Its edgy
Also what i have done a few times
No matter, your still out of our way
Show me where you have killed DISORDER.. I believe you were denied that.. DJ:::
Kills stand at 8 to 8.
lol--sure. How about these stats?
Total NW Killed:
SLOB: $11.745.054
LOR: $20.578.789
You keep killing the small states, we'll take care of everything else.
Disorder
07-08-2009, 09:56
lol--sure. How about these stats?
Total NW Killed:
SLOB: $11.745.054
LOR: $20.578.789
You keep killing the small states, we'll take care of everything else.
How about these stats
LOR 22 members
SLOB 9 members
Do the math and tell me whats more impressive.
Disorder
07-08-2009, 09:57
Or are you too busy looking for loopholes and cheats?
How about these stats
LOR 22 members
SLOB 9 members
Do the math and tell me whats more impressive.
Yet you guys declare and complain about the numbers...yea, real good argument.
Or are you too busy looking for loopholes and cheats?
You too busy looking for the delete button?
Disorder
07-08-2009, 10:17
Yet you guys declare and complain about the numbers...yea, real good argument.
The only one's complaining are you guys (mainly you Pron). My statement was a suggestion to make a compairison. Just admit it, you LOR'ieans only run in large numbers and cry like little sissy girls when things don't go exactly your way. lol
Its still amazing to me that you have such large numbers in your nation, but yet only about 5 of you visit the forums. lollollol
But, thats only my opinion.
Disorder
07-08-2009, 10:17
You too busy looking for the delete button?
Too bad hoss, no kill credit for you!
::pitty::
The only one's complaining are you guys (mainly you Pron). My statement was a suggestion to make a compairison. Just admit it, you LOR'ieans only run in large numbers and cry like little sissy girls when things don't go exactly your way. lol
Its still amazing to me that you have such large numbers in your nation, but yet only about 5 of you visit the forums. lollollol
But, thats only my opinion.
Your opinion is worthless to me.
Disorder
07-08-2009, 10:25
Your opinion is worthless to me.
Then what is the FACT that you are a CHEATER worth?
Game kills total-- 8 to 8
Then what is the FACT that you are a CHEATER worth?
Game kills total-- 8 to 8
lol--the fact that you don't know what you're talking about is worth enough.
Is my name pink? Is my state pink? Has my state been deleted? Yea--I'm a real big cheater. You keep talking kiddo.
Disorder
07-08-2009, 10:40
lol--the fact that you don't know what you're talking about is worth enough.
Is my name pink? Is my state pink? Has my state been deleted? Yea--I'm a real big cheater. You keep talking kiddo.
lol Kiddo? That just shows how much you know, you should be calling me your Daddy! Lets take this up in the game.. I will have your state posted in my kill book at least once this set! GF;::
And as for the little pink thingy.. ask your leaders about that, im sure at least one of them can admit to that one. lol
lol Kiddo? That just shows how much you know, you should be calling me your Daddy! Lets take this up in the game.. I will have your state posted in my kill book at least once this set! GF;::
And as for the little pink thingy.. ask your leaders about that, im sure at least one of them can admit to that one. lol
If you claim old age, you should probably act like it. Your online persona is childish.
Let's take this up in game?? Ok--
Name: Disorder(#8)[SLOB] *DEAD*
Rank: 0
Networth: $332.346
Land: 120
Name: pron(#69)[LoR]
Rank: 22
Networth: $4.032.466
Land: 5.092
Got anything else kiddo?
its worthless to even argue, we wont see each others points of view valid.
You say its ok to bend the rules (see "Shady"), I say its not.
You say LOR is winning, (see NW Killed), I say its not (see members vs members and turns vs turns).
I think we are the more honorable nation, but some how you think LOR is a better nation in this instance? No big deal.
You PM Mr. P (owner) for 12-24hrs, dont get a reply fast enough so you come and complain and make a very weak argument (IMO) about specific words being in a specific place. You think hes wrong, I think your impatient. You must have thought you were the only one PMing him or something.
LOR pulled some BS move and it didnt fly with Mr. P. Get over it.
I was just calling you a cheater to get a rise out of you. Its just a game and we should all take it as such. My point was that your making too big a deal out of it. In the end LOR will kill all of SLOB which is expected, and is what we expected.
I am claiming a victory even if its personal because I think we did a lot better than anyone expected including LOR. We didnt want to be pushed around, we wanted to show we have talent and valor. I think we accomplished that, so in my mind we have completed the goals we have set out to complete, and in my mind we did a better job than anyone expected.
LOR should have wiped us out in under 48hrs given the past show of power against other nations, including last set.
We cannot come to an agreement about the whole retal before prep argument because I guess we play the game differently. I do still and will always think that playing the game using features the way they were intended to be used will always be more creditable than using loopholes and playing shady. I also think that playing shady causes people who try to play "correctly" (my words) to get upset.
LOR didnt have to use that feature in order to kill SLOB. LOR already have an overwhelming advantage and could have easily killed the same two states 30min later than they did. They wree not online just the same, and if they were not killed two others could have been. Doing what LOR did was an intentional slight against the programer of the game, and not only did I take offense to it, but I am sure Mr. P. who spent hours upon hours to get those features developed for all of us to enjoy did as well.
Given the history instead of treating this incident as a repeat offense of "Shady" play he treated it quite lightly and fair. No ones state was deleted, no one got banned, no one got perma banned even though IT IS in the TOS not to use loopholes or take advantage of the way the game is coded in order to obtain an advantage (not quoted).
We are not going to agree so can we please stop arguing about it?
Ill agree that you didnt "cheat" but possibly played "shady".
I didnt get what I wanted out of the situation, and neither did you.
Nothing is going to be done about it now, it is what it is.
I will side with Mr. P. on his descision even though i didnt get what I wanted out of it because I do respect the time and effort he has put in. I am sure he was just getting off of work, and trying to go home and be with his family and maybe didnt want to reply to all of the PMs sent his way as fast as we wnated him too. For the record he didnt reply to me either, and once I reported the incodent he didnt "personaly" reply to me directly either.
Lets just agree to disagree here and move on. Its a pretty good fight and we both should be having a good time with it, instead of getting all pissed at each other.
Disorder
07-08-2009, 10:51
If you claim old age, you should probably act like it. Your online persona is childish.
Let's take this up in game?? Ok--
Name: Disorder(#8)[SLOB] *DEAD*
Rank: 0
Networth: $332.346
Land: 120
Name: pron(#69)[LoR]
Rank: 22
Networth: $4.032.466
Land: 5.092
Got anything else kiddo?
Now we can go round and round about this.. you know as well as I do that LOR does not get credit for this kill.. in fact, they just wasted a bunch of turns for nothing. It pays to be active as I was. I prevented your team from getting credit from my state. Its called defence. Now, you can look at my GE and see I have 3 kills on your nation, soon you will be added to the growing list. I know, your use to cheating and all. But what I did was part of the game and you can look it up, there is no rule against it.
This thread is being closed. Things have gotten out of hand. I will open a new one for the war convo between the nations. Any talks concerning the loophole will be deleted and I expect the mods to strictly enforce that.
Mr President
07-08-2009, 15:53
Actually BB if you don't mind i would like to keep this opening and going for a little bit longer. I feel people have a right to say what is on there mind, even if it is against me. I am going to rename this thread, and if a mod has some free time, please go through it and delete or move any post that actually has to do with the war.. And we will just make this a grievance thread.. :)
I do ask that members stop calling each other cheaters though. I think those who have actually been bagged cheating should get a fair rashin of crap for it, but Pron has never cheated nor has he been bagged a cheater.
Pron has been a good member in this community and rarely ever raises a voice unless he feel passionate about what he is saying.. He does not like the decision that was made and he has a right to voice it..
I stopped reading this last night cause it was taking up to much of my time and i had to work on some things with the game and when your coding stuff it's way to confusing to keep switching back and forth and trying to keep up.. but anyway i have read it all now and am rip raring ready to reply lol.. BTW, my replies will prolly be long. I worked hard at making smaller posts, but some of you have made me pull out the long ones.... tsk tsk tsk..
@ BB--putting a forum posting is not proper action. Putting it into the TOS would have been proper action.
First i would like to clear up this TOS confusion.. The TOS is a simple guide to Terms of Service. Basically giving a brief overview of certain things you can't do to violate the service we provide. ie bots, double accounts, hacking, porno stuff ect ect..The TOS is not the games rule book. We really don't have one of those, but i think we need one.
You are correct that i did not update this rule book with the retaliation policy. But again, there is no way i can cover everything in the game. We would have so many rules we would be like the united States.. lol..
It's kinda like the triple SA's.. I don't see it posted anywhere other then the forums, but everyone seems to follow it. And when a new member does it he is punished in one form or another.. Mainly killed or given several nasty messages. So should this SA policy be in the rule book? How about the no double SA on the top 10? No it shouldn't be added.. There needs to be a time when common sense kicks in.. And the retaliation is one of those time.
But i'm thinking of setting up a way to allow the members to send in rules they feel should be added to this new "Rule Book" that i will be making. If approved they will be added.
Why is it always pres's responsibility to initiate the conversation. If something is known it should be brought up to him. I doubt with work and RL, that he has the time to track down everyone and talk to them about loopholes. I know this doesn't really have any real argument about what your saying now but everytime it seems all night you have been implying that pres has to talk to people first. If you feel you are wronged or know something that is going on that shouldnt, don't you need to talk to him.
You don't expect the police to come to your house because they are checking randomly for problems...you call them when there is an issue. :p
@andy: you almost got the quote thing right lol:p
It is CLEARLY stated in the TOS that loopholes are to be reported.
The thing that, I feel was most unfair, is not what other LoR states claim. I think making a verdict without even hearing our side of the story is bull****. People who are convicted and caught red handed in murder are still taking to trial and asked motive and what not, I know this is a game, but since when do we just listen to the report look at the "retaliation" and decide.
All this tactic really achieved was a few more LoR dead states, and the prolong death of SLOB.
I suggest that we stop talking about this, as i know that nothing is going to be done to reverse the actions that have taken place. What i do suggest is that next time both side of the story is heard before the verdict.
Ali i did hear your side of the story.. You, Devil and Pron all sent me a PM with your sides of the story.. not one of them matched.. I'm sorry if i don't have a lot of free time to spend hours to see who is telling the truth and who is not. I looked at the records, spoke with the other admin and we BOTH agreed that this was fair.. You seem to think that i just got on and said "oh gee lor is involved let's try to screw them anyway i can" That is so far from the truth.. In 100% honesty, if this whole situation was reversed i would have done the same thing to SLOB... And let me be clear on this as well, at NO time did i ever say well LoR has more members so this won't hurt them... Sorry, i'm not like that at all. Out of all the members (excluding LoR members) i have been LoR's biggest cheerleader. I was glad to see them come back. I knew crap would happen and that is what i wanted. The forums to light up, the game to have some wars and people getting fired up. it's what this game is all about.
I started out by PM'ing Prez, to which he stopped sending me PM's back. I was most respectful in those PM's, and there was no reason for him to not PM me back. Then he came on the forums and posted here, so I responded to it.
Prons PM's to me were very respectful. He was arguing his case which he has every right too. Pron the only reason i stopped replying to you and came on here was cause i was getting a lot of PM's and it gets old saying the same thing over and over.. it was easier to bring it to the open and discuss it.. I wasn't ignoring you.
What, are you done with the whole "cheater" argument?
No one is beyond reproach--I don't care if they own this game or not. Mr. P is mature enough to know that, why can't you? I will continue to flat out call Mr. P wrong, because I believe he is wrong and I won't be silent just because he owns the game. That's a weak argument lol.
I have also not resorted to name calling, which you have twice now. You really should not be a mod with the way you carry out conversation in this post. Who should I talk to about that?
I give Mr. P all the respect in the world, and he knows that. But not in this instance, and I should be allowed to voice that.
I'm not a nazi admin.. I strongly feel members who feel they have been wronged have a right to voice his/her opinions as long as they stay focused and on point and not turn ugly.. Doesn't mean that i will change my mind or back down if i too feel strongly about something, but hey ya never know. I make mistakes all the time and if i get called on it and i spend some time really thinking about it, there may be times i reverse my decision.
So far Pron has been fine with what he is saying. he feels strongly about his opionion, but i feel the same about mine..
Then what is the FACT that you are a CHEATER worth?
Game kills total-- 8 to 8
We really need to stop calling ppl who have never been caught cheating a cheater. The admins of this game have gotten really good at catching cheaters so please let us catch and lable them.. Once they are labled then you all can harp on them and make them feel like crap.. But calling someone who has played fair a cheater is really fair at all.. Even if we don't like his/her opinion or the nation they play in.. Doesn't make them a bad person.
I also would like to mention that when do things get to change? I mean Grim is mad at me cause of the vacation ordeal, Pron is mad over this ordeal. So let's just say that after the vacation mode issue i decided to step up the punishment. And now this happens so the punishment is harder. how do i win here? Cause both will still be mad over the same thing... This is only hypothetical of course, it's not what happened..
No matter what choice the admins make, it's never going to be fair in some others eyes.. Some will say it's too light, some will say it's too severe and some will just complain cause it's what they like to do.. I have accepted that. it took me a while to get use too, but i'm cool with that now. All i can do is say that most of you have been around this game and interacting with me since i was just a simple member and then a leader of the most powerful nation in the game (lol nice little add in) to now the admin. I do the best i can and try to be as fair as i can. If i overstep or over correct and it's proven then i will gladly reverse my first decision. I'm not too proud or stubborn to admit when i'm wrong.. But in this case i just don't feel as i was wrong. Pron i know you feel i was and i'm ok with that. I am glad you stood up and stated your case and continue to state your case.. I will do the same. But there really isn't a whole lot more i can say..
L O L i was going to suggest a different name for this thread but i guess your title gets it done. My title might have given me some bit of a warning from the boss man..
Divine Intervention
07-08-2009, 16:46
Retaliation Menstruation Thread more like, amiright?
Mr. P, was the TOS broken? Was a rule broken? Are you saying that declaring retal before prep is over is compared to a triple tap? Im not getting it.
Did they break "something" or not?
There was a punishment... so it must have been something.
I am also soo confused on the cheater part. You can do something wrong and your a cheater, but you can do other things wrong and you are not a cheater?
I reported the inncodent using the cheater report button (just saying), two states were rolled back, but LOR lost (punished) the turns they used. So I report cheater and "cheater" gets punished? Or "Shady" gets punished.
You got me so messed up that I dont even know what a cheater and what is not a cheater. Im not trying to get anyone in trouble or anything liek that...idc if someone is a cheater or not I just want to know if what happened was cheating, and if it was not what was it.
Max Logan
07-08-2009, 17:01
just leave it be, people. States were rolled back, LoR learned a lesson. Now go war already
Maggion is just upset that he can't call LoR cheaters anymore.
just leave it be, people. States were rolled back, LoR learned a lesson. Now go war already
No. Mr. P left this open so all of us LoR whiners can join in with the rest of the Netting-whiners.com community!
@ Mr. P--Thanks for re-opening the thread. I find that, regardless of what we come to now, the decision can't be changed at this point. Yep--I still think it was the wrong decision, but looks like we'll have to continue our loving relationship in spite of that.
PS--I too was taking up too much time last night, so much so--that I now have to take my girl out tonight! ugh...or woot! One of the two :)
Mr. P, was the TOS broken? Was a rule broken? Are you saying that declaring retal before prep is over is compared to a triple tap? Im not getting it.
Did they break "something" or not?
I think Mr. P would say that we broke a "common sense" rule, and didn't use the function as it was intended. I'd say that happens a lot in this game, and is just another "shady" activity. Mr. P thought something had to be done about it (rolling back the SLOB states), which I'm fine with--I just wanted my turns back for killing those states because I didn't know that it wasn't a "super-shady" action.
There was a punishment... so it must have been something.
See above.
I am also soo confused on the cheater part. You can do something wrong and your a cheater, but you can do other things wrong and you are not a cheater?
I reported the inncodent using the cheater report button (just saying), two states were rolled back, but LOR lost (punished) the turns they used. So I report cheater and "cheater" gets punished? Or "Shady" gets punished.
I think in this instance, regardless of if you submitted a cheater report or not, Mr. P would have stepped in. I wouldn't see it as Mr. P responding to a cheater report--I'd see it as Mr. P responding to what he saw as a serious infraction of a use in the game.
You got me so messed up that I dont even know what a cheater and what is not a cheater. Im not trying to get anyone in trouble or anything liek that...idc if someone is a cheater or not I just want to know if what happened was cheating, and if it was not what was it.
Well, according to my definitions, it was shady, not cheating. I don't know what Mr. P would say about it though. Since no one was made pink, I think it was dealing with a loophole, which was shady, but not cheating.
Shabaz K
07-08-2009, 19:05
did anyone else knew how good looking i am or is that a loophole aswell:P
It's kinda like the triple SA's.. I don't see it posted anywhere other then the forums, but everyone seems to follow it. And when a new member does it he is punished in one form or another.. Mainly killed or given several nasty messages. So should this SA policy be in the rule book? How about the no double SA on the top 10? No it shouldn't be added.. There needs to be a time when common sense kicks in.. And the retaliation is one of those time.
peoples states don't get rolled back and turns sacrificed for SA's.
But i'm thinking of setting up a way to allow the members to send in rules they feel should be added to this new "Rule Book" that i will be making. If approved they will be added.
Again you most likely would leave something out, someone would use something they were not really intended to(most likely something in the gray area) and they would just argue it wasn't in the rule book. Also making SA's part of rules would be completly rediculous. What happens if you do break it? Get deleted for cheating?
We really need to stop calling ppl who have never been caught cheating a cheater. The admins of this game have gotten really good at catching cheaters so please let us catch and lable them.. Once they are labled then you all can harp on them and make them feel like crap.. But calling someone who has played fair a cheater is really fair at all.. Even if we don't like his/her opinion or the nation they play in.. Doesn't make them a bad person.
Thank you! it got old 3 years ago
in a previous post I admitted to only calling Pron a cheater to rawl him up because I was pissed that he was IMO well not be too nice to a buddy of mine. it was all part of hey you got punished (in his mind) so you must be something...
So what it looks like to me is there are three things
1. following the rules
2. shade of gray ("shady")
3. Cheating
Which is fine, didnt really see were this one classified as when the ruling came down.
Cheater is getting really old, and for what? its not even a good argument point anymore...matter fact it hasnt been for a longgggg time.
Either your pink or your not. The funny part is that for some reason in this game the more shades of gray you are the closer you are to becoming.........pink?
Honestly I think I totally pulled a Dogma last night, cause now I feel fine.
Will stop playing devils advocate....literally and figuratively. lol
You do realise I'm in LOR?
northbabylon
07-10-2009, 18:46
You do realise I'm in LOR?
yeah, maggio is a little slow these days...::oops:
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