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pcgluva
02-19-2008, 09:34
HAVANA, Cuba (CNN) -- Fidel Castro announced his resignation as president of Cuba and commander-in-chief of Cuba's military Tuesday, according to a letter published in the state-run newspaper, Granma. The resignation ends nearly a half-century of iron-fisted rule that inspired revolutionaries but frustrated 10 U.S. presidents.

Castro revealed his plans without notice by publishing a letter in the middle of the night in state-run newspaper Granma.

"I will not aspire to, nor will I accept the position of president of the council of state and commander in chief," Castro wrote. "I wish only to fight as a soldier of ideas. ... Perhaps my voice will be heard."

President Bush said Castro's decision ought to spark "a democratic transition" for Cuba.

"The international community should work with the Cuban people to begin to build institutions that are necessary for democracy and eventually this transition ought to lead to free and fair elections," Bush said Tuesday in Rwanda, where he is visiting during a five-nation African tour. "The United States will help the people of Cuba realize the blessings of liberty.

more @
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/02/19/castro/?iref=mpstoryview

Mr President
02-19-2008, 12:49
huh interesting.. i could have sworn hoe said he was still going to lead and not hand LoL over to Pron......



:P

ooga booga
02-19-2008, 13:25
huh interesting.. i could have sworn hoe said he was still going to lead and not hand LoL over to Pron......



:P

ohhhhh son. Owned. :thumbup:

But this is good news anyway, hopefully. Maybe the people of Cuba can finally grow some balls and do something with their government while they have the chance. :p

pcgluva
02-19-2008, 13:51
they have been isolated for so many years, hopefully they will change and catch up

Hoebawt
02-19-2008, 14:13
Ive been to cuba its so ****ign nice ;) maybe u guys can go now

ooga booga
02-19-2008, 15:36
Ive been to cuba its so ****ign nice ;) maybe u guys can go now

You just went so you could come back to the States and mass sell Cuban Cigars. :P (I'll take a box and sell them to Guy cause I know he likes cigars, lol)

But in all seriousness this is the chance the cuban people have needed for years. Hopefully they can set up a better government that will work for their nation.

Bram Gotink
02-19-2008, 16:09
@Sean and any other American

The isolation of Cuba is the fault of America. If your ex-presidents (Kennedy was one of them) didn't decide that Cuba had to go, Castro didn't need to hide at the USSR, and Cuba wouldn't be isolated.
Why did the US decide this? Because they liked the former dictator better. He didn't care about his people, but he was pro-West. That was all that mattered to the US.

Castro threw away this guy, called Batista, who run away to the US. One year later, the US mounted an offensive against Castro in the Pigs' Bay. They lost.
Castro tried to be polite and friendly, but the US didn't give him no chance. Why did the USSR help him? Because he was close to the US and because he was rejected by the US.

As to the remark of Ooga that the Cuban people should grow balls : Cubans may be poorer than the average American, but they have a social structure : their sick get looked after and their workless get fees.
If you have anything against that, never come to Europe. In Belgium we have the same type of Social Security.
But of course, you guys never heard of that...

btw : why did Cuba become so poor? because of the blockade by the US. The USSR had an air bridge to Cuba, so Cuba had some sort of export and economy. With their mates gone, they had nothing. Did the US try to help? Naah



sources :
- miss Vlieghe, my history teacher
- me
- My history handbook Historia6:bipolarity



EDIT: I hope you didn't mean democracy as in the American way?

pcgluva
02-19-2008, 16:35
does your book talk about the missel crisis bram, why the blockade was there, when USSR was bringing nukes there during the cold war?

Bram Gotink
02-19-2008, 16:37
Yes, it says something about the missile crisis

which was started by the US,
so I see no further need to discuss that part, unless you want to prove me right?

Crimson Shadow
02-19-2008, 17:44
But this is good news anyway, hopefully. Maybe the people of Cuba can finally grow some balls and do something with their government while they have the chance. :p

Too bad his brother is probably going to take over and they will be right back where they started

Bram Gotink
02-20-2008, 08:47
What the FRACK is wrong with you guys?
Cuba is another country, with its own rule and its own legal system.
Oh, no ! They're communists ! They have to be capitalists so they can enjoy our consumption-economy (mark the sarcasm)
That was the same way the USSR thought during the Cold War (but then the other way around, duh). Sorry guys, but you are not better than thos communists.
It's just another way of life. let them be



As to Sean, to prove that I'm right :
1952 : Turkey and Greece join the UN. It's Turkey we're interested in.
between 1952 and 1962 (probably in 1961) : JFK puts nukes in Turkey, aimed at the Sovjet Union.
1962 : the Sovjet Union puts nukes in Cuba as an answer to the threat in Turkey.
A little later, JFK decides to remove the nukes from Turkey, and a couple of days later, the nukes on Cuba were also gone.

Now, I'm goin to teach you like they do with little children : Which came first : the nukes in Turkey, or the ones in Cuba ?

N.B. : this is a short version, the US tried to blockade Cuba and thereby force them to switch sides. It didn't work, but the blockade still exists (just not so litteraly).

And by the way : Why is it that the US puts its greatest enemies in Guantanamo Bay, in Cuba?

Mr President
02-20-2008, 10:01
Americans think everyone in the world should live like us and have the freedoms we have. You can't hate us cause of our kindness, but you can laugh at us for our blindness.

Being free is a wonderful thing. And seeing i was born in it, that is all i know so i can't imagine anything else. The same goes for others. They know what they are born into.

I don't think Cuba is all that bad. I know there people are well taken care of medically. Bram is right, if the US didn't mess things up with Castro things would be a lot different. But remember JFK was what 12 yrs old when he ran the country? Although if i like reading about him and i think he did some good, the bay of pigs was a huge embarrassment for us...

Here is what America really needs to do. If a country comes to us and asks for our help in setting up a democracy, then great we should help.. Other then that, keep our noses out of other people affairs and let them live the way they want...

Not to mention, American's really need to ask the question of "how free are we anymore"? I mean really......

Bram Gotink
02-20-2008, 10:34
All of you, listen to your president :D
(I don't mean Bush)
I'm saying it again, but Mr.P, you should go into politics

MAGGIO
02-20-2008, 10:40
I hope the US can mind its business about this situation.

Bram Gotink
02-20-2008, 10:50
Go isolationalists :D

Dogma
02-20-2008, 12:36
i believe that the Cuban people should be free to choose their own form of government. But, as I just said, THE PEOPLE should be free to chose thier government, not the fat cats. I don agree that the Cuban govt has done an excellent job in the face of great adversity to take the best care of its prople. There is very little homelessness, their medical system is working, albeit under a strain. I would like to see the US govt be more willing to work with the Cuban people to better their situation, without getteing all in their way of self governing. I agree with Pres, the US needs to stop trying to free the world, if the world doesn't want it's help. Wait till we are asked for help to give it.

ooga booga
02-20-2008, 13:41
Bram what the **** is your problem??? God I hate all you ****ing Europeans who think they know everything about America and have never stepped a foot on our soil. Do you see me bashing Belgium? If Belgium is so ****ing great then there is no need to keep bashing the U.S. to make yourself feel better. People like you really piss me off. I'm sure the Cuban people have been living very prosperous and wonderful lives. That's why many of them have risked their lives fleeing their country trying to escape across the sea to Florida. We all know the nukes in turkey came first. We got rid of them, we got rid of the blockade (which was set up to prevent the USSR from bringing MORE nukes in) and Cuba remained isolated, which is their own fault. You act like it's members on this forum's fault for something that happened 50 years ago when none of us were alive, including dogma. Jeezes. All we're saying is we are hoping the Cuban people will finally have a chance to be happy. How you can start bashing us for saying something like that just shows how ****ing stupid you really are. And I know I'm coming off really angry here but people like you really spark a fire under my *** when I have to defend my country against ignorant pricks like you.

Bram Gotink
02-20-2008, 14:39
Bram what the **** is your problem??? God I hate all you ****ing Europeans who think they know everything about America and have never stepped a foot on our soil. Do you see me bashing Belgium? If Belgium is so ****ing great then there is no need to keep bashing the U.S. to make yourself feel better. People like you really piss me off. I'm sure the Cuban people have been living very prosperous and wonderful lives. That's why many of them have risked their lives fleeing their country trying to escape across the sea to Florida. We all know the nukes in turkey came first. We got rid of them, we got rid of the blockade (which was set up to prevent the USSR from bringing MORE nukes in) and Cuba remained isolated, which is their own fault. You act like it's members on this forum's fault for something that happened 50 years ago when none of us were alive, including dogma. Jeezes. All we're saying is we are hoping the Cuban people will finally have a chance to be happy. How you can start bashing us for saying something like that just shows how ****ing stupid you really are. And I know I'm coming off really angry here but people like you really spark a fire under my *** when I have to defend my country against ignorant pricks like you.

If that is the way you feel, I'm sorry.
None of the members of this forum was in any way responsible for the Cuban problems.
Thanks for telling me (again) how stupid I am, but buy a mirror, please. It'll help you see true stupidity.
I am truly sorry, Ooga, but everything I hear about the USofA makes me wanna nuke it. I'm sure I'm stepping on a lot of toes here, but it's true.

And don't say I don't know **** about what happend/happens in the US. I have internet, I have radio, television etc. I've learned about the Cold war for 3 months. Do you have any idea how long that is? I know every important thing about the Cold war. EVERY.
I'm sorry, I'm being incomplete.
In these lessons, we also watched two American documentaries about the Cold War.
One was about the Cuban Crisis. In that documentary, the fact that the US started the missile crisis was "forgotten". Castro was made a fool by the makers of the documentary.
The other one was about the slaughter in the German Camps, including Auschwitz. Again, it showed a very black and white picture.

Some other things : In the USSR, you had censure. People weren't allowed to say certain things. Fine, it sucks. Everyone hated it.
In the US, you had the same thing. Only it wasn't official. Nothing with even the slightest hint to pro-Communist stuff in it, was allowed. That is not fine.
Why do I call the censure in the USSR fine, and the one in the US not fine? Because the people in the USSR knew, the entire world knew that there was a censure. In the US, these things only came out a couple of years ago.



To be short : Sometimes it's better not to have lived through the Cold War. You know why? Because all of you who remember living then, have a subjective way of looking at all this.
I don't. I don't pick sides. Unless one side is wrong.

ps: Ooga, could you stop using the "****", it's quite annoying. I know you're mad, I know you hate it when your country gets "bashed", but that is no reason to use that kind of words, even though I can't read them.
pps: please don't bash on Belgium, we can do that ourselves. In fact, Belgium is doomed. I'm enjoying every day that Belgium exists, knowing it might be the last...
but please go bash some more, if you like. It's right there, next to Britain, above France and under Holland.
ppps: I don't go the US because I need a visum. Why aren't you a schenge-country?? (not meant as a bad thing)

pppps : Don't blame me, blame the media, they decide what I know and don't know, what I see and don't see, what I hear and don't hear.

Dogma
02-20-2008, 14:56
You act like it's members on this forum's fault for something that happened 50 years ago when none of us were alive, including dogma

Sorry Ooga, this happened between Oct 14 and Oct 28 1962, I was around then, so, it must have been me that caused it. :P

Bram Gotink
02-20-2008, 14:56
You Americans do have the tendency to want to play the adjudicator of the world. First of all Afghanistan, then Iraq and now Bush wants to attack Iran.
I am definetly pro - Isolationalistic USofA.
That fact alone irritates me like hell. Can't blame me for that, can you?
Your country / government feels the need to mess with everyone's life. You shouldn't have done that. You guys were the reason of the Second Intifada, the destruction of Iraq's economy etc.
I know you think the USofA rocks and that it is the best country in the world. No harm done there. The problem is that you want to share that "best country" with the rest of the world, and it isn't working.
IDK if any of you watch the series of Avatar : the last airbender. The fire nation in that series is exactly like the USofA here. "Our country and our way of life is the best in the world. Let's share it with the world." Good idea, really. It's the way you do it that ain't that good : WAR.

War for peace is wrong.

Nota Bene : When I use the word "You" or "You guys", I mean the USofA and especially their government.

ooga booga
02-20-2008, 16:06
Congratulations you took history like the rest of the world. I do blame the media everyday for spitting whatever crap they want into your brains. I also blame you for believing them. The part that irritates me is that you are still dwelling on the Cold war while we are talking about Cuba. This thread was created to talk about how Cuba is going through a change in government for the first time in 50 years, and you come out of nowhere and start bashing on America. Seriously, lol. I know you like spamming threads and stuff but it really is starting to get annoying. If you hate us so much you can start a thread on why you hate America, although if you do that you are a really sad person who should be doing something better with his life than bashing another country he thinks he knows about because he listens to his media and taken some history classes like everyone else has. We know we aren't perfect, never said we were, so why try and prove we aren't? Nice little mirror joke though, I thought it was real freaking cute.

Bram Gotink
02-20-2008, 17:16
Congratulations you took history like the rest of the world. I do blame the media everyday for spitting whatever crap they want into your brains. I also blame you for believing them. The part that irritates me is that you are still dwelling on the Cold war while we are talking about Cuba. This thread was created to talk about how Cuba is going through a change in government for the first time in 50 years, and you come out of nowhere and start bashing on America. Seriously, lol. I know you like spamming threads and stuff but it really is starting to get annoying. If you hate us so much you can start a thread on why you hate America, although if you do that you are a really sad person who should be doing something better with his life than bashing another country he thinks he knows about because he listens to his media and taken some history classes like everyone else has. We know we aren't perfect, never said we were, so why try and prove we aren't? Nice little mirror joke though, I thought it was real freaking cute.

Now that is a post worth reading, not like your previous one with all the **** (I just typed the * myself, it's not like I wrote some nasty words there...)
And it is true, what you say
except the bashing bit
I don't bash on America. I bash on the way America treats the world. You don't need to be an American to see that, or do you?




I think the Cubans won't even notice the change in government because Castro stays in power, it's just his brother now...

Mwahahahaha
03-07-2008, 21:34
I have difficulties viewing the US position towards Cuba as anything else but as a position of a sore looser. You backed a power-hungry, US-friendly dictator, which the people didn't agree with resulting in a coup and an overthrownment of the government resulting in a communist dictator. So, no what? Are you going to boycott Cuba until you get a government you agree with? Or wait until you get your so called assets back (as the backer of the unedible government). The whole situation is just dumb and counter-productive. Simply accept what has happened, and soon enough it will open to international trade, and the opportunity to sell crappy hamburgers through McDonalds and all that crap. The majority of the wars the west with the US as the frontrunner has tried to fight has been lost on the battlefield, but later won on the economics. Just swallow your pride and open up trade, and soon enough the country will serve all the McDonalds hamburgers you want with profit and without a single US marine losing their life.