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Mr President
10-23-2009, 15:33
Now that we all have had a chance to mess with the United Nations feature a little bit i am going to implement the next phase of it, next set. I will go over the new features and then also get them in the manual. (which really needs updated again)

First let me again explain the UN concept in the game. It's main purpose it to get nations to work together in many different ways. It's a place where all the nations come together and vote there stance on global issues. It's a way for nations of any size to feel that they have a say and a vote in the global situations as well as the game. After all, it's the nations that 100% control this game and what happens from set to set. Months ago when i actually started working on the UN code, i realized the power and the endless possibilities it has. So as we move forward, the UN will have new features added to it. Some my ideas but mostly you the members ideas. Here is the changes being added to it for next set:

-Ambassadors-

- Nation leaders can now appoint 1 member out of his nation as a UN ambassador. This person can see everything and vote on everything so make sure you chose him/her wisely. Nations only get 1 vote, so if you want to vote one way and your ambassador wants to go another, you will have an issue.. Cause once the vote it in, there is no changing it. Each set a nation can appoint up to 3 different members. So if the 1st person you put in as your ambassador is not doing the job, you can fire him/her and appoint a new person. Once the 3rd has been appointed, your stuck with him/her. If this person leaves the nation, it will automatically remove them as your ambassador and allow you to appoint a new one. But it still counts.. So again, try to pick the right person for the job. If they screw you over, it's your problem. All appointed Ambassadors are announced in the Global News. Same as when they are fired!

- UN General -

I really like this new feature. Just like in the real UN, you have a General. This person oversees the whole UN. This person is the only person who can approve or decline sanctions or Financial Aid Packages to other nations from the UN. At the start of each set, for the first 5 days all UN nations will vote on who they would like to have as a UN General. Only the tag holders can be appointed as UN General. Ambassadors can not. But they can vote on it. After the 5 days is up, the clear winner will be marked UN General. In the event of a tie, the winner will be decided to ways. If he/she is a prem and the other is not, then the premium account holder will win. If neither are a premium account holder then the lower state number will win. If both are a premium account holder then again, the lower state number will win.
When votes are posted by any nation asking for sanctions or a aid package for another nation, all the nations will vote. It takes 75% of all UN nations to vote YES before the vote can be passed by the UN General. Once 75% has been reached then a box will pop up that only the UN General can see asking him/her to Approve or Decline that vote. All approved or declined voted will be listed so nations can see if the UN General is doing the job correctly. If not, then you might not want to vote for them again. :)
In the event that all nations simply vote for there own leader to be UN General, then the above rules will apply till it's worked down to a winner. But i don't think you will see this happen as not all leaders will want the position. And in the event someone is elected and they don't want it, they can decline it and the position will go to the next on the list.

UN Generals can NOT just declare sanctions against nations or send aid packages on there own. A vote MUST PASS by 75% for them to even see the box to approve or decline. There is no way any nation can gain any advantage over another without a 75% approval vote from the rest of the UN Nations. UN Generals serve 1 set each. Each set the nations vote again. yes you can server as many consecutive terms as long as you keep getting voted in.

- UN Bank Account -

To be part of the UN nations will now have to pay a fee which is deducted out of your nations bank account each day. Right now the fee is 10k per member per day. (Will adjust fees accordingly) This money is then placed into a UN Bank Account which will be used to Financial Aid Packages. When the UN Bank is officially opened, there will be a balance of 50 Billion in the account. This balance will roll over set after set with the only deposits being made to it is what is drawn out from the UN fees imposed on Nations. Aid Packages can not exceed the balance amount. It's up to each UN General to maintain a good balance each set. of course, no aid packages can be sent out without 75% approval, but still they must make sure there is a decent balance and they don't bankrupt the system.

-Financial Aid Packages -

Any UN Nation can submit a vote asking the UN to send money to another nation. You can ask for any amount you wish, but if it's not a reasonable number then it will be declined i'm sure. If 75% of all UN Nations vote YES then the UN General will be asked to approve or decline the vote. If Approved button is clicked then the money is instantly transferred into the the approved nations bank. If you don't get the 75% of votes needed, then the UN General will close the vote after a specified amount of time.

-Sanctions- (may possibly be pushed back one more set depending on time)

Any UN Nation can submit a vote asking for sanctions to be placed on another nation. Again, you need 75% YES votes of all UN Nations in order for the vote to pass. The UN General can Approve or Decline the vote at that time. If Sanctions are placed against a nation, that nation is not able to use the NATIONS PUBLIC or BLACK MARKETS for (NA Goods) for a period of 5 days. After that time frame has ended, the sanctions are automatically lifted and another vote would have to pass in order to have them placed again. This sounds eaiser then it will be. Getting 75% of all UN Nations to agree to this is harder then you think. But it could be a very effective tool that could be used to hinder a nations outragous actions.

- Leave/Join Times -

After a nation joins the UN, they can not leave for 3 days. And after they have left they can not join again for another 7 days. This will help keep nations from only joining for certain votes and then leaving.

-Voting-

Nations get 1 vote per poll. So if the Ambassador beats the actual leader to the poll and votes, that is all they get. You can now see how each nation voted. it no longer says [3] nations vote YES. it will now list out each nation that voted and display there vote. "America- Yes"

If you have already voted you can still view how it is progressing. Once the UN General makes the final decision, it will be closed. You are still able to look back at past votes to see who voted for what. It also lists out ALL closed votes and how it was decided on by the UN general. (Approved or Declined). This way UN Generals are accountable for there actions.

[U]-Polls-

Nations can still take common polls asking if they would support something. These are kinda like preliminary polls to see what others are thinking. The UN General has no say or final vote in these kinds of polls. And no action can be taken from them.

As you can see, the UN has been beefed up quite a bit with this new phase. In the next phase there will be a UN Forums for discussions. Some nations use the UN, some don't. It can still be that way. But this is a whole new aspect to the game to spice things up some. The voting of UN General will only be open for the first 5 days of a set so that means nations need to get set up so they can get there votes intime. Nations that join after, will not be able to vote on the UN Elections. Yes i'm sure the UN Election will be a popularity contest at first. But these Generals need to do there job or else they wont be voted back in again..

I will list out other changes for next set in a new thread prior to next sets starting date.

Thanks

pron
10-23-2009, 17:56
What happens if the UN General is killed in combat?

Kamran
10-23-2009, 18:15
i have one problem and that is those one man nations. if they join the UN.

we know there are one man nations who belong to other nations who can easly vote for there nations.

i gonna use LOR as example.

we all know lor will get out voted for any reason. its easy to create one nation and vote and leave, or that even USA can do that to favour there odds.


we need a cap for for nations to vote. i's say 3 member cap to vote anyone less the that should havea observeration status.

Mhaphew
10-23-2009, 20:29
i have one problem and that is those one man nations. if they join the UN.

we know there are one man nations who belong to other nations who can easly vote for there nations.

i gonna use LOR as example.

we all know lor will get out voted for any reason. its easy to create one nation and vote and leave, or that even USA can do that to favour there odds.


we need a cap for for nations to vote. i's say 3 member cap to vote anyone less the that should havea observeration status.

I disagree,

I think a nation should be around for atleast 3 days regardless of member base

Kamran
10-23-2009, 20:44
I disagree,

I think a nation should be around for atleast 3 days regardless of member base


no its that, i do too believe there should be few days, but if i get some of my friends to create few single man nations just to vote in my favour maybe to out number the UN council.

i can get few people to create 1-man nation and stay there half way through the set like that, and when the oppertunity comes use them.

Mr President
10-24-2009, 11:29
These are good suggestions so keep them coming. Sadly this may not happen this set as a RL issue popped up last night that will occupy my free time this whole week, which means i might not be able to finish off the last few things needed to get this done. :( We'll see..

if anything, the ambassador part will be added along with the other small changes for the game..

But feel free to keep discussing this and i will answer them as soon as i can.

thanks

Divine Intervention
10-24-2009, 11:48
surely sanctions give an advantage to indy nations who dont really need to buy as much NA and can keep it up simply through draft rates?

-Z-
10-24-2009, 12:25
It would be wise to have a minimum of 3 days in creation, and also at least 3 members to vote in UN.

Z

MAGGIO
10-25-2009, 15:24
i like how we can vote in a General in order to override possible abuses of the UN. like one man nation votes.

Mr President
10-26-2009, 17:59
What happens if the UN General is killed in combat?

Once he/she creates a new state that state will take back over as UN General.


no its that, i do too believe there should be few days, but if i get some of my friends to create few single man nations just to vote in my favour maybe to out number the UN council.

i can get few people to create 1-man nation and stay there half way through the set like that, and when the oppertunity comes use them.

This is why nations really need to chose a UN General who is qualified and is up to speed with the game. If you vote in some slacky who doesn't pay much attention and just approves everything, then yes one man nations could carry a vote. But nothing happens unless the UN General approves it.



surely sanctions give an advantage to indy nations who dont really need to buy as much NA and can keep it up simply through draft rates?

When the UN Sanctions is complete, it will cover all bases.. The Tax and Draft will also be set to 0% when sanctions are placed on a nation and they will not be able to reset them till the sanctions expire or are lifted.
I'm not completely done with the Sanctions feature yet so i doubt it will make it in for next set. But i am thinking that seeing Sanctions being placed on a nation can really mess things up, we need to raise the approval % higher then 75%. I'm thinking like 90% of all UN Nations need to agree in order for the UN General to have the power to place them. If they are granted this would be a HUGE tool in bringing a rogue nation in order.. We just need to make sure it's a hard tool to approve. Getting 90% of all the nations to agree is quite a task.

Ragnar
10-26-2009, 19:04
We just need to make sure it's a hard tool to approve. Getting 90% of all the nations to agree is quite a task.

That would make it impossible to approve. Does 90% of the nations even bother to vote in polls?? I'm guessing you're lucky to get 50% to just vote.

Mhaphew
10-26-2009, 19:36
Ok here is another way to look at it.

How about we do it like this.

For every 3 members of a nation you get 1 point.
(OR read on a little further down to see my other theory to make it 1 point per member)

so for instance.

If nation x wants to sanction nation y, it will go up for vote.

Nations a, b and c all have 1 member so they are only worth 1 point, but nation d e and f all have 15 members so are all worth 5 points.

All of you who say this will only benefit big nations are both wrong and right at the same time.

If a nation is very popular and they get a member base of 20 and another nation is less popular and can only get a member base of 10 then why is it ok to punish a nation whos member base is so big? Is it because they play the game infairly?

Or you could simply make 1 point per player, for instance:

Nations a, b and c all have 5 players and are worth 15 collective points, but nation d has 20 players and is worth 20 points, and in a vote Nation D would win against nations a b and c because they have more players.

In Mr. P's way of setting it up, it would have been nations a b and C that would have won, but why is that? That is because all nations would have been 1 point and it would have been a 3 againsts 1 vote, where as my theory makes it a 15 vs 20 vote.


Now because you all want to use LoR as an example because we are the big bad raping, pillaging machine, you could think of it like this...

nations a (LoR 20 members) nation b (friend nation 1 member) and nation c (friend nation 1 member)
Would only be worth 22 points

Now there is a total of 100 members (give or take) so our votes only account for 22 % of the total member base, Now Mr. ps way of doing it would have been a little different, it would have been our three nations, and lets say there is about 8 nations created each set, then our 3 nations would have been worth almost 50% of the total vote.

So SLOB and USA would have only had 2 votes against us, OR, if it was based off the total member base, each nation could have 13 members, giving them a total point score of 26, which would would make it 22 vs 26, and those two nations would beat LoR and their friend nations!

....

Ramble ramble ramble, blah blah blah,

But you all get my point right?

Mr President
10-26-2009, 20:33
That would make it impossible to approve. Does 90% of the nations even bother to vote in polls?? I'm guessing you're lucky to get 50% to just vote.

For the past 2 sets i have been watching how many people actually vote in the UN polls. About 70% of all UN nations have voted in the polls each time each set. But there are 2 sides to this. As is, the UN doesn't really do much. People get a message to vote but that all. Now that things have been added into the UN, perhaps we will get more activity. But then again, maybe not. So we need to make sure there is activity in the UN as every vote will really make a difference now. But here is the other side as well, let's say only 3 nations join the UN. All you would need is 2 votes to get your vote to pass (@75%). Thats not too hard to do and sadly, if the UN is not used then certain votes will pass with little to no resistance. So making the sanctions harder is the better way to go.. 90% was just a suggestion. We can set it and tweak it as needed.. :)


Ok here is another way to look at it.

How about we do it like this.

For every 3 members of a nation you get 1 point.
(OR read on a little further down to see my other theory to make it 1 point per member)

so for instance.

If nation x wants to sanction nation y, it will go up for vote.

Nations a, b and c all have 1 member so they are only worth 1 point, but nation d e and f all have 15 members so are all worth 5 points.

All of you who say this will only benefit big nations are both wrong and right at the same time.

If a nation is very popular and they get a member base of 20 and another nation is less popular and can only get a member base of 10 then why is it ok to punish a nation whos member base is so big? Is it because they play the game infairly?

Or you could simply make 1 point per player, for instance:

Nations a, b and c all have 5 players and are worth 15 collective points, but nation d has 20 players and is worth 20 points, and in a vote Nation D would win against nations a b and c because they have more players.

In Mr. P's way of setting it up, it would have been nations a b and C that would have won, but why is that? That is because all nations would have been 1 point and it would have been a 3 againsts 1 vote, where as my theory makes it a 15 vs 20 vote.


Now because you all want to use LoR as an example because we are the big bad raping, pillaging machine, you could think of it like this...

nations a (LoR 20 members) nation b (friend nation 1 member) and nation c (friend nation 1 member)
Would only be worth 22 points

Now there is a total of 100 members (give or take) so our votes only account for 22 % of the total member base, Now Mr. ps way of doing it would have been a little different, it would have been our three nations, and lets say there is about 8 nations created each set, then our 3 nations would have been worth almost 50% of the total vote.

So SLOB and USA would have only had 2 votes against us, OR, if it was based off the total member base, each nation could have 13 members, giving them a total point score of 26, which would would make it 22 vs 26, and those two nations would beat LoR and their friend nations!

....

Ramble ramble ramble, blah blah blah,

But you all get my point right?

I see what your saying. It's just a simple point system. UN Sanctions won't be implemented next set. There is still some work that needs to be done and obviously some more debating on it's setup. I'm not ruling this idea out, i'm just saying lets get some more and go from there. :)