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Senate leader unveils $849 billion health care bill.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/18/health.care/index.html
So here it is folks.
Some said it wouldn't pass the house...
Some Said America is only concerned with killing and not healing...
I could almost agree, except for this Bill.
I pray that Hope prevails for once, and American will take care the most valuable thing, and what makes it great, Its people.
Z
The Bill itself is available to download and read...
2071 pages, 2.5MB...
I began to view it...
If I was an American maybe Id read it all.... but man...
There has got to be a better way to convey information these days.
Z
Calvin74
12-07-2009, 17:13
The Bill itself is available to download and read...
2071 pages, 2.5MB...
I began to view it...
If I was an American maybe Id read it all.... but man...
There has got to be a better way to convey information these days.
Z
chances are that no one will read it. I know i won't and i really really don't want this bill to pass. I have free health care through the government right now and it is decent care but takes FOREVER... i can't even begin to imagine the build up there will be when people don't have to pay for it....
i also wish that congress and the president were subject to the EXACT same healthcare that everyone else will have and not their own special care...:thumbdown:
Disorder
12-07-2009, 18:14
That is file 3 of 9.. I wonder if the other files list all the secret "deals" that are being cut to help this Bill pass.
The same could be said about the Private Insurance Companies that oppose it. How many of those would want to use the services their companies provide? I don't know why you don't just set up an NHS.
Calvin74
12-07-2009, 19:21
The same could be said about the Private Insurance Companies that oppose it. How many of those would want to use the services their companies provide? I don't know why you don't just set up an NHS.
b/c the bureaucratic nightmare it will start.....
i think the quickest way to limit healthcare costs are to limit tort reform, get rid of drug commercials (i doubt it is ever a good idea for a patient to recommend a drug to their doctor:P) and make it so that unneeded drugs are not covered under any governmental healthcare. why should i pay for some old man to get viargra??
Britain manages ok with ours, although I admit it's not perfect.
If I were an American, if I broke my leg tomorrow i'd have two choices:
have it treated and be $20000 in debt (or however much it costs)
or not.
As I understand it medicare is anything but universal, if it was this bill wouldn't be needed.
The costs of healthcare shouldn't come into it in a country as rich as the US, although I strongly disagree with illegal immigrants getting it, they should all be kicked out of the country and a massive wall built along the US-Mexican border with guard towers.
why do U not want the Bill to pass?
(Calvin)
what hurt does it bring you, in comparison to the relief it would bring others.
I agree that not only politicians but EVERYONE should have the same health care. I see health care as a human right. like clean drinking water, and freedom of speech.
In Canada we have universal health care.
It actually is not far from perfect. It is not perfect, but its not that far.
Quality Health care is like quality drinking water.
Perhaps it can be said that health should be considered more of a right than drinking clean water.
I feel everyone should have acess to quality health care.
In Canada U may need to wait for some time to have an issue resolved that is not life threatening. but if you need somthing done in ER, its done. never questions asked.
Insurance is never an issue when it comes to life.
Z
Disorder
12-07-2009, 20:43
Britain manages ok with ours, although I admit it's not perfect.
If I were an American, if I broke my leg tomorrow i'd have two choices:
have it treated and be $20000 in debt (or however much it costs)
or not.
As I understand it medicare is anything but universal, if it was this bill wouldn't be needed.
The costs of healthcare shouldn't come into it in a country as rich as the US, although I strongly disagree with illegal immigrants getting it, they should all be kicked out of the country and a massive wall built along the US-Mexican border with guard towers.
The United States is not rich; our Government has us so far in debt that we may never be able to dig out. This bill will cost the tax payers nearly 1 billion dollars, that it will take 10 years to pay for. Now the kick in the gut is that will only sustain 5 years worth of coverage. As for breaking your leg or needing to go to the doctor there should be no need in going in debt if you are responsible and hold down a good job with benefits. Besides that, Health Care Insurance is a Privilege, not a Right. If you break something or get sick, it should be your personal responsibility to pay for it, not the Gov. or anyone else.
Disorder
12-07-2009, 20:47
why do U not want the Bill to pass?
(Calvin)
what hurt does it bring you, in comparison to the relief it would bring others.
I agree that not only politicians but EVERYONE should have the same health care. I see health care as a human right. like clean drinking water, and freedom of speech.
In Canada we have universal health care.
It actually is not far from perfect. It is not perfect, but its not that far.
Quality Health care is like quality drinking water.
Perhaps it can be said that health should be considered more of a right than drinking clean water.
I feel everyone should have acess to quality health care.
In Canada U may need to wait for some time to have an issue resolved that is not life threatening. but if you need somthing done in ER, its done. never questions asked.
Insurance is never an issue when it comes to life.
Z
Z-- The numbers do not lie, over 80% of Americans do not want this bill and are satified with their coverage, just as I am. The 13% that are without coverage, seems to me, comes from the massive unemployment. Create jobs with benifits, and that number will dwindle, the other 7% are just to cheap or lazy to get a job and pay for what they should be paying for or just prefer a free Government ride.
Clowntown
12-07-2009, 22:14
Britain manages ok with ours, although I admit it's not perfect.
If I were an American, if I broke my leg tomorrow i'd have two choices:
have it treated and be $20000 in debt (or however much it costs)
or not.
Option 3..
find 2 pieces off wood and splint your leg
Z-- The numbers do not lie, over 80% of Americans do not want this bill and are satified with their coverage, just as I am. The 13% that are without coverage, seems to me, comes from the massive unemployment. Create jobs with benifits, and that number will dwindle, the other 7% are just to cheap or lazy to get a job and pay for what they should be paying for or just prefer a free Government ride.
USA spends Trillions to bail out bankers
Trillions more to bomb people in the desert and setup camp in places not American.
I dont agree with spending Trillions of dollars u dont have for any reason. But providing health care to the people of your own country would seem a better choice than the previously mentioned choices if one is going to make the choice to go into debt.
You are allready totally screwed for debt. why would anyone care now?
why oppose the good things...?
Z
Disorder
12-08-2009, 08:45
USA spends Trillions to bail out bankers
Trillions more to bomb people in the desert and setup camp in places not American.
I dont agree with spending Trillions of dollars u dont have for any reason. But providing health care to the people of your own country would seem a better choice than the previously mentioned choices if one is going to make the choice to go into debt.
You are allready totally screwed for debt. why would anyone care now?
why oppose the good things...?
Z
First off, the bombings.. really?? Do you think we really like to just bomb people? No, I personally do not. However, I do agree going after the enemy on their soil rather than mine. And thats what has us in this Afganistan war, lets not forget that they threw the first punch..
Second, I do not agree with the bailouts. A buisness should not have to rely on the Government to stay afloat. If it fails, it fails, someone else will do what they do a different way and it would work itself out in time.
Third. Why would we stop worrying about DEBT. Thats what has the U.S. in this crunch now, all the citizens took the Governments leading roll and started spending what they did not have. You have to have it first to spend it because you have to work and pay for the things you and your family consume.
Oppose good things. I do not oppose Medicade that the Gov. has been offering people without Medical insurace for decades. In fact, they cant properly run that organization, why would I want them to take something that works great for me and over 80% of the rest of the U.S. away from me. My family and I will receive lesser care, have longer waiting times, give up more personal information to regulators, see higher taxes and will result in some person with very little education taking a doctors job for proably 12 dollars an hour... NO NO NO NO.
I do not see how having public health care insurance resualts in untrained doctors working for labor wages...
would medicare not still be available for thoese who choose it?
From what I understand they are not taking anything away, jjust adding this option for poor folks who cant afford other options.
13% of people in America (citizens) are without health care coverage...
that more than 1 in 10...
to put it in perspective... My family is gathering for Xmas this year... I have a large family.
100+ people will gather in a building we have booked for years. (not a church, although my greater family is Catholic)
in the US it would be likely that 10 or 15 of these people would be without coverage...
(my family as no rich folks in it, the richest are trades people, like my father whop works for 25-30$ an hour at 45% tax lol)
Personally I love my family. maybe I dont know every 100 people as I do my sister or brother... but I want them to have coverage.
I'd be willing to pay an additional 1% income tax so they could have coverage.
It was not Osama Bin Laden who destroyed the Twin towers, and other buildings on Sept. 11th.
Perhaps he took credit, but Bin Laden was working for America the whole time.
Maybe he was paid to take Credit.
http://lukery.blogspot.com/2009/07/bombshell-bin-laden-worked-for-us-till.html
The Truth about 9/11 is evident to anyone who looks further than Fox news.
Some group of very powerful people inside or outsode of the government orchestrated alot of the destruction.
Buildings do not randomly Fall down on an inward collapse Like building #7 did, without being rigged.
Disorder.... have you woken up?
If so, you are doomed, and U may as well go back to Sleep...
Z
http://www.911truth.org/
Z
Disorder
12-09-2009, 01:17
From what I understand they are not taking anything away, jjust adding this option for poor folks who cant afford other options.
(my family as no rich folks in it, the richest are trades people, like my father whop works for 25-30$ an hour at 45% tax lol)
I'd be willing to pay an additional 1% income tax so they could have coverage.
Disorder.... have you woken up?
If so, you are doomed, and U may as well go back to Sleep...
Z
Z.. Why do you continue to be ignorant over the decisions the people in the United States make? I refuse to live a Socialist life having my every action monitored and controlled by my Government. I will not vote for that.
As your first statement adds, they are only adding to what we have. Thats wrong. They are going to make it to where we will be heavily pentalized if we do not accept their plan, making it nearly impossible to afford my current plan, assuming they allow the private industry to stay in buisness.
Next.. You would not mind paying more in taxes, and your father is poor for making 25-30 dollars an hour. I for one can not afford anymore taxes as they already get about 35 to 38% of my income. Everyone in my family has excellent healthcare, that is not Government run, and I bet we average about 17 dollars an hour.
Just because I do not believe in your ways, does not mean I need to wake up and live the Canadian way.
I work for every thing I have, and feel that everyone whom can work, should do the same.
Z.. Why do you continue to be ignorant over the decisions the people in the United States make? I refuse to live a Socialist life having my every action monitored and controlled by my Government. I will not vote for that.
As your first statement adds, they are only adding to what we have. Thats wrong. They are going to make it to where we will be heavily pentalized if we do not accept their plan, making it nearly impossible to afford my current plan, assuming they allow the private industry to stay in buisness.
Next.. You would not mind paying more in taxes, and your father is poor for making 25-30 dollars an hour. I for one can not afford anymore taxes as they already get about 35 to 38% of my income. Everyone in my family has excellent healthcare, that is not Government run, and I bet we average about 17 dollars an hour.
Just because I do not believe in your ways, does not mean I need to wake up and live the Canadian way.
I work for every thing I have, and feel that everyone whom can work, should do the same.
the wake up comment was concerning 9/11...
I think u said that "they struck the 1st blow"
u should be aware about such an important event in the history of your country. 9/11 was a tragedy and the truth is not what has been told by the government.
But I Digress...
No it is not necessary for everyone to live "the Canadian way" (Canada is like a giant Hippy Colony that lives in Igloos, dont cha know, EH!)
jokes aside, I never said my father was Poor. He makes good Money, he doesnt have to pay a dime for great health care, nor does he have to pay for any of his children or family directly, he pays through taxes.
Where I live health is a big part of your life, and an expense that can be very large, or very small depending on luck and choices.
In any case having health care is a good thing.
War and terrorism are not good things.
The US should stop Terrorizing foreign countries.
If the powers in the US economy want to terrorize their own people fine, but stay out of the rest of the world.
I simply agree with Helping people.
And Disorder you have been lied to... perhaps attended one too many Republican conventions... Hanging out With Palin a bit too much?
a Public option will in no way force you to choose it over your current choice. it only adds more competition.
Z
Calvin74
12-09-2009, 17:26
http://www.911truth.org/
Z
i refuse to debate with anyone that actually believes that stuff....:blink:
Do you wonder why people in California are upset about all the illegal’s
crossing the border?
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.
Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes
$25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and
gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
Ready? Now pay attention...
Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per
year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has
$31,231.00.
Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or
$31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his
family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has
$24,031.00.
Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and
local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or
welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year.
Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.
Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and
welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe
Legal now has $9,631.00.
Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal
pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still
has $ 31,200.00.
Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now
has $7,231.00.
Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has
$31,200.00.
Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.
Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after
work.
Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.
Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe
Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a
government-sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL
program. Joe Legal's children go home.
Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but
Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.
Do you get it, now?
The United States is not rich; our Government has us so far in debt that we may never be able to dig out. This bill will cost the tax payers nearly 1 billion dollars, that it will take 10 years to pay for. Now the kick in the gut is that will only sustain 5 years worth of coverage. As for breaking your leg or needing to go to the doctor there should be no need in going in debt if you are responsible and hold down a good job with benefits. Besides that, Health Care Insurance is a Privilege, not a Right. If you break something or get sick, it should be your personal responsibility to pay for it, not the Gov. or anyone else.
The US is rich enough to have a half trillion dollar defence budget, it can pay for an NHS.
What happens if you lose your job and get sick in the meantime? does the insurance still cover you?
The single biggest problem as I see it with the US system is that the insurance companies are run for profit, and therefore will do everything possible to make claiming on your insurance so difficult and time consuming that most people will give up on it out of sheer frustration.
I'll bet none of the senators/representatives etc voting on the bill have to worry about how it affects them, since they can afford to pay the full costs out of their own pocket. This is a problem in the UK as well, but likely worse in the states where anyone left of Margaret Thatcher would be considered a communist.
Disorder
12-19-2009, 13:05
[QUOTE=Will;85396]
What happens if you lose your job and get sick in the meantime? does the insurance still cover you?
QUOTE]
We have a option called COBRA that allows you to keep the insurance your employer provides for you for an additional 6 months after termination. It usually cost a bit more because the employer is not contributing to the cost, but still the same policy. My wife and I are fortunate to where if she looses her job, I can get very good coverage through my job. Right now w (the working class) has options, and it works very well for us (the working class), but after reviewing what CNN, Politico, MSN, CBS, and yes (Z) even Glen Beck and the FOX news network, I feel that they are taking our freedoms away with this and giving us a lesser product.
Third. Why would we stop worrying about DEBT. Thats what has the U.S. in this crunch now, all the citizens took the Governments leading roll and started spending what they did not have. You have to have it first to spend it because you have to work and pay for the things you and your family consume.
.
The debt is a serious thing, the 4 biggest growing nations (that have 40% of world population) already want to ditch the dollar as the currency for oil and stuff. When this happens, US will become like south afrika :s. (for instance: the day the dollar dies, if i'm not mistaken this is worst case scenario if it happens)
and spending before you have it is the american way btw.
The debt is a serious thing, the 4 biggest growing nations (that have 40% of world population) already want to ditch the dollar as the currency for oil and stuff. When this happens, US will become like south afrika :s. (for instance: the day the dollar dies, if i'm not mistaken this is worst case scenario if it happens)
and spending before you have it is the american way btw.
couldnt agree more.
american wouldnt be half of what it is today is it hadnt spent on credit.
and when the dollar crashes so will america.
Z
Followed by the entire western world, which is NOT a good thing unless there are radical groups poised to take advantage (non-islamic ones that is)
Followed by the entire western world, which is NOT a good thing unless there are radical groups poised to take advantage (non-islamic ones that is)
europe would still be pretty safe, Asia will be ****ed, since they have huge dollar reserves (a way to keep it afloat since the us goverment keeps on printing money). Its even expected oil and stuff will go to euro as a price indicator (or Brazil, russia, china en the fourth i cant remember will come up with a better system/valuta)
Keep in mind, that unlike US citizen think the world doesn't revolve around them.
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