View Full Version : Hey Barack!?
Did you clean out Wall Street?
Stop settlement building in the West Bank?
Bring torturers to justice?
I'm starting to get worried. Not about elevated abstractions like "hope" and "change" but about the concrete policy decisions those slogans were meant to inform. As a candidate you stood firmly on one side of the issues, but as a President, what have we witnessed in your actions?
Why hasn't as single torturer been charged with a crime?
Why is Wall Street back to raking in billions, while hard working people are still loosing their homes?
And Why, despite your pledge to end illegal Israeli settlements, did you back down from Natanyahu and allow construction to go on?
I remember something you said during your campaign Barack...
"All of us must decide whether we are serious about peace, or whether we only lend it lip service"
I think its time you decided.
Z
ARIEL SHARON, 1973:
"We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them. We'll Insert a strip of Jewish Settlement in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlement, right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years time, neither the United Nations, Nor the United States, Nobody will be able to tear is apart."
ARIEL SHARON 1973
http://www.sott.net/image/image/s1/22233/full/israel_palestine_map.jpg
Disorder
12-22-2009, 23:28
What cha want me to say Z, Obama is just full of surprises.. No arguing that point.
just a comment on the billions vs. loosing homes comment.
what ever happened to personal responsibility. Its survival of the fittest. I cant tell you how hard Im working on making my mark. You just cant sit there and make stupid moves and expect it all to be make better by others. I am sure that some people got the short end of the stick but I bet most just acted unwisely.
I am no freaking genius, but some how I can manage a full time job, and my own business on the side making websites.
Its about hard work, and if it was tiolets I had to clean to make it then I would be shoulder deep. Even then the whole time i would be thinking about trying to clean even more toilets, and hiring people to help me clean more and more and going out trying to get contracts from other businesses and homes who need theirs cleaned. I mean WTF, im just an avg joe, but there is a light at the end of every tunnel, you just have to OPEN YOUR EYES!
take your fate into your own hands, and if you lost your deal because of some big wig screwin over the little man, then get back up and do something else.
idk if you can tell but your talking to a D student with a 10th grade education and a GED. If I can do it then anyone can do it.
just a comment on the billions vs. loosing homes comment.
what ever happened to personal responsibility. Its survival of the fittest. I cant tell you how hard Im working on making my mark. You just cant sit there and make stupid moves and expect it all to be make better by others. I am sure that some people got the short end of the stick but I bet most just acted unwisely.
I am no freaking genius, but some how I can manage a full time job, and my own business on the side making websites.
Its about hard work, and if it was tiolets I had to clean to make it then I would be shoulder deep. Even then the whole time i would be thinking about trying to clean even more toilets, and hiring people to help me clean more and more and going out trying to get contracts from other businesses and homes who need theirs cleaned. I mean WTF, im just an avg joe, but there is a light at the end of every tunnel, you just have to OPEN YOUR EYES!
I agree with some of what U say, but IMO there is not light at the end of the tunnel in the monetary system of late capitalism.
The issue is that Wall street makes millions doing nothing, while other people work hard, very hard, and still loose everything.
Maggio have you had any illnesses in your family that cost you 50k?
that your insurance refused to cover?
did you have to sell your house becasue your small business failed when Walmart or mcdonalds or starbucks moved in beside your location?
Where is the light at the end of the tunnel for someone who invested his life in somthing that fails because rich people have so much money they can accomplish anything they dream of?
How can hard work and scrubbing toilets cure and pay for cancer?
wtf, my father spewed this hard work stuff for my whole life, until my grandfather died of cancer... then he stopped.
Please ask me why.
I acctually CLEAN TOILETS. I work maintenacne. and U can only clean so many toilets before your wrists get sore.
Maggio have you cleaned 50 toilets in a day before?
Hard work is good, but its discourageing and demeaning when you work hard, and then you see someone rise far above you, who has done jack sqwat.
Yeah its not fair, life isnt fair.
But does that mean we should just shut up and forget about it.
I think that when Global capitalism collapses we should be ready to build a system that works much better than the one we have now. One that benefits all, and one that will not allow us to repeat the mistakes we have made.
Culture should be free
Info should be free
Water should be free
land should be free
electricity should be free
food should be free
many more things should be free.
and maybe you think this is ludacris, that would be because you are thinking in a monetary state of mind, we need to start thinking in ways of a new paradigm.
Z
I agree with some of what U say, but IMO there is not light at the end of the tunnel in the monetary system of late capitalism.
The issue is that Wall street makes millions doing nothing, while other people work hard, very hard, and still loose everything.
Maggio have you had any illnesses in your family that cost you 50k?
that your insurance refused to cover?
I PAY FOR INSURANCE, ITS PRETTY GOOD AND PRETTY EXPENSIVE. THERE ARE WAYS TO RAISE MONEY THOUGH NON PROFITS AND STUFF THERE IS ALWAYS A WAY BUT IF ITS YORU TIME ITS YOUR TIME
did you have to sell your house becasue your small business failed when Walmart or mcdonalds or starbucks moved in beside your location?
MY JOB IS IN RETAIL. WE ARE DOWN 20% IN SALES, and UP 1000% IN PROFIT VS LAST YEAR. WHEN THE WRITINGS ON THE WALL YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS, and EVOLVE OR YOU KINDA DESERVE TO GO UNDER. SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST EVEN ITS DOING SOMETHING EXTREME LIKE RELOCATING. THE WORLD IS A BIG PLACE AND THERE IS OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU SOMEWERE OUT THERE.
Where is the light at the end of the tunnel for someone who invested his life in somthing that fails because rich people have so much money they can accomplish anything they dream of?
THE LINE IS VERY CLEAR FOR ALL TO SEE. TAKE MONEY TO MAKE MONEY ON EVEN THE SMALLEST SCALE.
How can hard work and scrubbing toilets cure and pay for cancer?
GUESS IT DEPENDS ON WHOS TOILETS YOUR CLEANING.
wtf, my father spewed this hard work stuff for my whole life, until my grandfather died of cancer... then he stopped.
ITS NOT YOUR FATHERS FAULT OR YOUR FAULT THAT HAPPENED, SORRY ABOUT THAT, BUT STILL KEEP YOUR HEAD UP AND TRY TO BE BETTER THAN THE ONES THAT SURROUND YOU AND TRY TO GET AHEAD.
Please ask me why.
I acctually CLEAN TOILETS. I work maintenacne. and U can only clean so many toilets before your wrists get sore.
I WORK ON THE COMPUTER SO MUCH A HAVE RUBBED ALL THE HAIR OFF MY FOREARMS, SO YES I KNOW WHATS UP. IM NOT SAYING IM BETTER< BUT WORKING 10-14 HRS SOME DAYS IS TUFF NO MATTER WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
Maggio have you cleaned 50 toilets in a day before?
SOMEONE IS MAKING MONEY ON THAT. YOU COULD BE THAT GUY PAYING SOMEONE TO DO 50 A DAY.
Hard work is good, but its discourageing and demeaning when you work hard, and then you see someone rise far above you, who has done jack sqwat.
ITS NOT ABOUT WORKING HARDER ITS AOBUT WORKING SMARTER. THATS MY NEW SLOGAN FOR 2010. WHAT RUNG ON THE LADDER ARE YOU GOING TO BE IN LIFE. IF SOMETHING UNSTOPPABLE HAPPENS LIKE A TRAGIC DEATH OR ILLNESS THAN THAT IS UNSTOPPABLE< BUT THERE IS PLENTY YOU CAN DO TO REDUCE THE CHANCES OF THAT HAPPENING. INFACT DRASTICALLY REDUCE.
Yeah its not fair, life isnt fair.
But does that mean we should just shut up and forget about it.
OH IM NOT SAYING FORGET ABOUT IT, IM SAYING FACE IT HEAD ON.
I think that when Global capitalism collapses we should be ready to build a system that works much better than the one we have now. One that benefits all, and one that will not allow us to repeat the mistakes we have made.
Culture should be free
Info should be free
Water should be free
land should be free
electricity should be free
food should be free
many more things should be free.
NOTHING SHOULD BE FREE EVEN BY YOUR OWN ACCOUNT SAYING THAT PEOPLE MAKE BILLIONS FOR NO WORK OR EFFORT. EVERY SINGLE THING HAS A PRICE AND THAT IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE ON ALL ACCOUNTS.
and maybe you think this is ludacris, that would be because you are thinking in a monetary state of mind, we need to start thinking in ways of a new paradigm.
MONEY IS A MEANS OF OBTAINING A BETTER LIFE, ITS THE HAND WE ARE DEALT AND IT WONT CHANGE SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL PLAY YOUR BEST GAME.
Z
only did caps so you could see my answers.
Let me tell you a little known story about me.
One time I had a girl that I chased for years. I finally got her, and we lived together. It didnt work out and it was the hardest break up I ever had. I was devistated. bout the same time a good friend died from carbon monox poison for falling asleep in his car after a overnight concert.
I went into deep depression. So bad that it effected me mentally and physically. I developed IBS, and Phobias of certain things. I didnt leave my neighborhood for over six months. It took me years to get control over some of the side effects of the deppression physical and mental.
When i was sitting in my house for six months, I got an idea to try to work from home and make a website. It was a pretty sad idea knowing what I know now, but I still gave it my best shot, and learned stuff I never knew, and that knowledge evolved into more and more, and now i can make sites that produce half a million in sales annually. Matter fact that last two jobs I had were working on inhouse webdesign, and I even bank quite a bit of money after hours making them for small business.
The moral of the story is that even in my darkest hours I pulled something positive from it. If I didnt get hurt so bad, I would be able to provide for my current family and kids.
I have never had something bad happen to me that something good didnt come out of it. Every one of my storm clouds have a silver lining. Not because they come with silver lining, but because I make them have silver lining. I will it. I make it happen. Now im only 32 and there are bigger and badder storms to come for sure, but I will do every thing in my power to make them turn out to be sunny days ahead.
Maggio, I didn't quote your post, because it would be 6 feet long if I made another long rant.
But, I want to say that I agree with most of what you are saying... I think that me and you have a different idea of the world, and a different thought process because of this.
I feel that Late Capitalism will give birth to a new system in my lifetime or shortly after, which will change the way we think.
concerning what you said at the end, I think that what you said is very important.
So many young people these days do not realize that in a big way, Pain, sorrow, challenge, and trials are needed in a persons life to build that person.
What can we be if we do not learn? and how do we learn if not by error?
Its the dark times in our lives that make us who we are, teach us to be strong and wise, and build us as people.
My Grandfather worked hard his whole life, and died with nothing but a plot of land.
Land should be free. Land is free, until someone puts a fence up and demands money for it.
What is money? It is a representation of power, energy, will. We can not say that it is linked to anything physical such as a resource, because money is made without any link to any solid resource.
In any case... Maggio I have a question for you.
You said nothing should be free, while I say everything should be free in terms of money, while Fiat Currency is still around.
-going to the museum
-walking through the woods
-drinking water
-taking a ****
-building a home
-sitting in a chair under a roof
-having a pet dog
-canoeing down a river
-going fishing
-stone
-wood
-air
-eating
-hunting
How can u justify making someone pay?
we are a group of people.
we should share.
and when we have a new system after Capitalism fails, and global markets halt, things will be much more local.
No one will be shipping a truck load of meat 300 miles to your grocer, it will not be profitable.
Z
-going to the museum
-walking through the woods
-drinking water
-taking a ****
-building a home
-sitting in a chair under a roof
-having a pet dog
-canoeing down a river
-going fishing
-stone
-wood
-air
-eating
-hunting
How can u justify making someone pay?
we are a group of people.
we should share.
and when we have a new system after Capitalism fails, and global markets halt, things will be much more local.
No one will be shipping a truck load of meat 300 miles to your grocer, it will not be profitable.
Z
thank you for the kind words. It take a lot to share sometimes.
I just wanted to say that it goes against all rules of mother nature, evolution, and mand kind to all be equal. Its never happened, it has never worked, and it will never be. Its built in, and although you may be unique is some ways you are still human, and just like the rest of intellegent life its survival of the fittest, and even down to the most basic things like brushing your teeth or what toilet paper you use or even using toilet paper...we all will strive for better than the other man.
what i was going to say is that everything you posted up there costs money in some way. I think what you are trying to say is that we have a "right" to exist and live. What I was saying is that we have no such luxury.
what i was going to say is that everything you posted up there costs money in some way. I think what you are trying to say is that we have a "right" to exist and live. What I was saying is that we have no such luxury.
I feel that as part of the natural world we have the right do exist as long as we leave the world a better place than we found it.
Z
We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The key word being the pursuit, if you don't pursue it, you don't get it. That doesn't mean it should be handed to you.
we have no rights. we are animals in nature. its just like the wild kingdom on a larger scale. Its kill or be killed, dog eat dog, the meaening of life is reproduction in its most primortal form. these are not my opinions these are facts.
We have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The key word being the pursuit, if you don't pursue it, you don't get it. That doesn't mean it should be handed to you.
hm... thats an odd statement.
Personally my family tried to hand me happiness.
When I was born they didnt neglect me, then didnt kill me, they didnt leave me to fend for myself.
I would want to try to hand everyone happiness.
I suppose some people are different.
Some people feel its just to sit on a pile of food and watch other people starve.
Z
we have no rights. we are animals in nature. its just like the wild kingdom on a larger scale. Its kill or be killed, dog eat dog, the meaening of life is reproduction in its most primortal form. these are not my opinions these are facts.
we are a part of the natural world, and all things in the natural world are meant to thrive if they can optimize the situation.
I believe the goal is not only to reproduce, but also to evolve and adapt.
So the word "rights" or right, is not really applicable.
I would say that all people are meant to share freely, and MEANT to live as a healthy equal group of beings.
I know many disagree.
but hey did we ever get ::topic:: or what?
How about Barack and his broken promises?
Z
hey this is just a better topic.
Let me put it to you like this. If your GF and you were on an island, and my wife and I were on the same island, and you had one fish, and that was the ONLY food there was to have in order to survive, and all other means of working together to achieve something better like more food etc...
I WOULD KILL YOU AND YOUR GF for my wife and I to survive. What I am saying is that when all options are gone, and we are extremely limited and reason and cooperation were no longer viable. One of us would die. I would do everything in my power to survive.
I think there are many that would not exhast all possible options as you and I most likely would, but when it came down to it, and we were optionless, its about who is going to live another day.
I would not try to get more than you as long as we could both be satisfied, but if there was not enough for both, then I would make a move to ensure my survival.
hey this is just a better topic.
Let me put it to you like this. If your GF and you were on an island, and my wife and I were on the same island, and you had one fish, and that was the ONLY food there was to have in order to survive, and all other means of working together to achieve something better like more food etc...
I WOULD KILL YOU AND YOUR GF for my wife and I to survive. What I am saying is that when all options are gone, and we are extremely limited and reason and cooperation were no longer viable. One of us would die. I would do everything in my power to survive.
I think there are many that would not exhast all possible options as you and I most likely would, but when it came down to it, and we were optionless, its about who is going to live another day.
I would not try to get more than you as long as we could both be satisfied, but if there was not enough for both, then I would make a move to ensure my survival.
But in our civilization there is always an option.
Maybe if you lived in Kenya or on this hypothetical Island, but we do not...
In the situation u described....
I am not sure I would kill you.
what if we split the fish in two parts, and we each lived an xtra 2 days, instead of you living an extra 4 days on your own?
Personally I think that it is only rational to share, as you are in a better situation with more people, due to there beign more imagination, creativity, and more possibilities.
U'd kill me, eat the fish, then die a week later, alone, knowing that the last thing your wife saw you do was murder another couple for a piece of fish?
... really?
Z
I said iwould share until there was none left to share. Its just a hypothedical
But in our civilization there is always an option.
Maybe if you lived in Kenya or on this hypothetical Island, but we do not...
In the situation u described....
I am not sure I would kill you.
what if we split the fish in two parts, and we each lived an xtra 2 days, instead of you living an extra 4 days on your own?
Personally I think that it is only rational to share, as you are in a better situation with more people, due to there beign more imagination, creativity, and more possibilities.
U'd kill me, eat the fish, then die a week later, alone, knowing that the last thing your wife saw you do was murder another couple for a piece of fish?
... really?
Z
No offense, but what i'm reading is just a cry for communism, and we all know how good that works :s. Sharing doesn't work in real life, live with it.
In case of for example cancer and stuff look at europe (i live in belgium, the most socialist country in europe, with its benefits and disadvantages). If here someone gets cancer they hardly have to pay anything since its recognized (like almost all diseases) as an official disease. Now the problem with this is that you Z (just as an example) will give about 50% to the state (and no there isn't a choice in this). Is that so much better? Trying to improve your social status here is harder then in the US, since the state steals everything.
Another thing about this social capitalism is that the company pays about 3 times as much as what the employer can use (net, after the state already steals alot from his pay check). This makes that wealthy people stay wealthy and poor stay poor. Ok if you get unemployed you get payd by the goverment (this fee is about 1050 euro, living alone no wife or children, then it even gets bigger), knowing this fee is 1050/month, knowing that going to work each day of that month for a job that doesn't require a degree will make you about 1200euro/month. Would you even bother to go to work? and guess what the people that do go to work trying to get it better for themselves, have to pay for some lazy *** people.
Just to show you how the opposite side is from the us capitalism.
Soviet Russia
12-24-2009, 10:09
And wheres my 1bil:thumbdown:
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