WW2 what if - Unholy Alliance

[Will]

Historically, Germany signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact with Russia just prior to invading Poland in 1939. But what if they had gone one step further and obtained a full military alliance?

So we have Germany and Russia at war with France and the UK. Initially the war goes historically, with a swift conquest of Poland followed by a buildup of German forces along the Belgian and Dutch border. France is again invaded in May 1940 but this time the BEF is dispatched to reinforce India against a potential Russian attack across Afghanistan. Alarmed at the German-Russian alliance and the threat to it's mainland possesions in Manchuria, the Japanese opt to ally with the British and French, who immediately end their support for China.

Chiang Kai Shek is faced with a major dilemma. Should he sue for peace and give away a large portion of territory to Japan, or should he fight on and ally with the Axis, though this may end with China becoming a Russian satellite?

Will the US opt to intervene even earlier given the dire threat to democracy posed by such an alliance, or will it remain neutral? If it does intervene, can the allies with the war or will the world be plunged into totalitarianism?

Discuss.

[mechdestroyer]

I like this but I dont find it feasable. One thing about nazism and hitler was he hated communism and that was the threat to go to war. but this is fun.

Russia was scared badly by japan after the russo-jap war a couple years before ww2 so i dont know if they would attack japan or not. Might totally concentrate on europe where russia takes finland norway, and then they both start to bomb england. sweeping down into the middle east to fight the british, conquer and get that OIL! and then go to india. If they could do that i think they would want to fight the japs.

I think the USA would have entered the war like ww1 when one of the passenger liners gets hit or something by some sub again and we go to war on the side of the allies, but with german tech and russian numbers. Plus each country only having to fight a one front war... wow things might have taken a lot longer to win. I dont know. With russias mass production, could you imagine if russia began rolling off tiger tanks, and panzers. let alone jet fighters

I guess in the end America wouldnt enter the war bc we knew what we were upagainst or in the end we would sign a peace treaty that would divide the world into where America had control or under protection of africa, and the N and S America Australia and mainland Japan. and Russia and Germany would own all europe and Asia and Middle east, with maybe even Britian if they wouldnt surrender it after the peace treaty.

If Russian and Germany only had a millitary alliance and didnt share techs then the Allies might stand a chance. Also depends on how much we shared with the japs. If we had a strong tech alliance too Japan could have been deadly with their will to fight and then american tech. Japs with tanks that werent worse than ww1 tanks. Deadly

[Will]

The Axis won't have a hope of invading mainland Japan or the UK. The balance of power navally is so heavily in favour of the allies it isn't funny. If the British can prevent German troops from reinforcing italy, it is possible for them to expel the Italians from africa entirely (which would have happened historically if we hadn't intervened in Greece)

Attacking the middle east without control of the mediterranean will bring Turkey and/or Persia into the Allied camp.

Don't forget that much of the late war russian advances historically wouldn't have been possible without lend-lease providing trucks and other equipment, so the advance of Russian troops into india and the middle east would be quite slow especially if Afghanistan is hostile.

I can see india being overrun by perhaps 1943 assuming the US doesn't send any troops there.

If the allies can hold out until 1945 then the A-bomb will truly tip the scales.

[Divine Intervention]

The Axis won't have a hope of invading mainland Japan or the UK. The balance of power navally is so heavily in favour of the allies it isn't funny. If the British can prevent German troops from reinforcing italy, it is possible for them to expel the Italians from africa entirely (which would have happened historically if we hadn't intervened in Greece)

Attacking the middle east without control of the mediterranean will bring Turkey and/or Persia into the Allied camp.

Don't forget that much of the late war russian advances historically wouldn't have been possible without lend-lease providing trucks and other equipment, so the advance of Russian troops into india and the middle east would be quite slow especially if Afghanistan is hostile.

I can see india being overrun by perhaps 1943 assuming the US doesn't send any troops there.

If the allies can hold out until 1945 then the A-bomb will truly tip the scales.

wrong.

but more importantly i would have imagined that the Japanese would join the Axis side either way because they'd want to expand their possessions in the far east at the expense of the British and French. it makes no sense for them in this scenario to ally with Allies :mellow:

[Blackwater]

I like this but I dont find it feasable. One thing about nazism and hitler was he hated communism and that was the threat to go to war. but this is fun.

Russia was scared badly by japan after the russo-jap war a couple years before ww2 so i dont know if they would attack japan or not. Might totally concentrate on europe where russia takes finland norway, and then they both start to bomb england. sweeping down into the middle east to fight the british, conquer and get that OIL! and then go to india. If they could do that i think they would want to fight the japs.

I think the USA would have entered the war like ww1 when one of the passenger liners gets hit or something by some sub again and we go to war on the side of the allies, but with german tech and russian numbers. Plus each country only having to fight a one front war... wow things might have taken a lot longer to win. I dont know. With russias mass production, could you imagine if russia began rolling off tiger tanks, and panzers. let alone jet fighters

I guess in the end America wouldnt enter the war bc we knew what we were upagainst or in the end we would sign a peace treaty that would divide the world into where America had control or under protection of africa, and the N and S America Australia and mainland Japan. and Russia and Germany would own all europe and Asia and Middle east, with maybe even Britian if they wouldnt surrender it after the peace treaty.

If Russian and Germany only had a millitary alliance and didnt share techs then the Allies might stand a chance. Also depends on how much we shared with the japs. If we had a strong tech alliance too Japan could have been deadly with their will to fight and then american tech. Japs with tanks that werent worse than ww1 tanks. Deadly

Just so you know, Tiger/Panther tanks were not developed till later in the war and are very complex machines that are not suited for mass production. The Russians would have a hard time mass producing them since their tanks, T-34, were designed to be mass produced just like the US Sherman.

The way this war would be won would be based on air superiority. This being so, the odds are then in the allies favor since the US/UK both favored long range bombers which Germany did not. Germany preferred medium bombers as air support for their army. If Japan is part of the Allies then the factories of the Germans and Russians could be targeted and destroyed.

This war would most likely end until one side tired from the losses. Most likely from public pressure. Simply meaning, this would be a long drawn out bloody war. It would be a toss up in my mind.

[Will]

wrong.

but more importantly i would have imagined that the Japanese would join the Axis side either way because they'd want to expand their possessions in the far east at the expense of the British and French. it makes no sense for them in this scenario to ally with Allies :mellow:

Russia would be a huge threat to Japan in this scenario without Germany to worry about.