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Dogma
04-23-2008, 16:00
I hope this set has taught you something as we have had suiciders hide in every nation and abuse your/our own NA to eventually go out and suicide other states. I hope this will serve as a lesson to pl who just accept anyone in their nation to be more careful of who you allow in your nation. If we do not give them safe harbor to build, their measly little suicide states will be easier to hunt from our existence. We have rid the community of this bunch before and it is my vow, we will do it again.

I am all for fairness and giving ppl a second chance, but their chance has been taken.

This cage has been rattled!

Mahdi
04-23-2008, 16:11
uh oh someone hide the scooby snacks!

just playin

I agree with dogma... the chances have been used and now it will be our time to start prevention and abstinance

Foxhound
04-23-2008, 16:26
I have to disagree with you on this one but I do understand where your coming from

Theres a probelm with about 100 inactive players in wow there isnt very many states to recruit with all the vets already joining nations. Trying to start a nation can and will be difficult and with bigger nations having a problem with smaller nations just trying to recruit and getting a few bad lemons it is something that you cannot stop. I believe the "whole dont accept anyone you do not know because if they leave and suicide us we will kill you or whatever" will hold back Nation-wars because it will keep the small nations small and not able to grow and keep the big nations big.

Unless there will be a limit on nation size myself and others im sure will just keep sending messages and accepting whoever wants to join because we need members to compete with usa,ds,want,LOL that have vets and scooping up newcomers on the forum.


I <3 you dogma

northbabylon
04-23-2008, 16:54
thanks fox, you mention WANT. =) sadly...WANT will pretty much be DaK next set -_-. so we will be going out with a good name for us.

Foxhound
04-23-2008, 16:56
I know about the Dak thing thats why i said it lol

Dogma
04-23-2008, 17:38
I have to disagree with you on this one but I do understand where your coming from

Theres a probelm with about 100 inactive players in wow there isnt very many states to recruit with all the vets already joining nations. Trying to start a nation can and will be difficult and with bigger nations having a problem with smaller nations just trying to recruit and getting a few bad lemons it is something that you cannot stop. I believe the "whole dont accept anyone you do not know because if they leave and suicide us we will kill you or whatever" will hold back Nation-wars because it will keep the small nations small and not able to grow and keep the big nations big.

Unless there will be a limit on nation size myself and others im sure will just keep sending messages and accepting whoever wants to join because we need members to compete with usa,ds,want,LOL that have vets and scooping up newcomers on the forum.


I <3 you dogma

Well, just know this, no nation is safe from having states killed. Borders have no meaning. and I am not acting on behalf if USA, this is ME personally. I have sat and watch idiots ruin ppls states long enough. I will not sit here and allow a handful of **** suckers to ruin this game. So if an innocent state is taken out, no that I apologize up front.

But drastic times call for drastic measures.

I have my own methods of determining my targets and I will follow my gut, It will be very simple to be removed from suspicion, just wait, you'll see.

We don't need suiciders in this game and I don't giv ea **** if we only have 13 ppl playing, they are not welcome and I will not rest till they are gone.

Max Logan
04-23-2008, 17:46
any state not bearing a flag is considered a suicider for me. Only if I know who it is, I consider otherwise.
Take this in notice for the future!

If your nation has states hiding their flags, you better get rid of them! :thumbdown:

Mr President
04-23-2008, 18:01
New people to the game who start nations will not know anyone and will let people in just to gain members. And honestly, a lot of nations do this. USA has always been pretty tight with security, but we had one hiding in our nation this set too.. So it's very hard to prevent.

I think instead of laying it all on nation leaders and who they let in, i would look more to them to see what they do once a suicider is discovered. We know most of the leaders in the game and most know how each other works, and i'm not fully convinced that 99% of the nation leaders would want or knowingly let in a suicider.

It has been a part of the game for a long time, And it's sad that others do it.

I'm sure all leaders will do there best keeping them out.

of course we could always go back to what we did in the past... reinstate the state that has been suicided and then delete the state who suicided..

But before that can happen, there has to be a larger outcry from the majority of the members in the game.

MAGGIO
04-23-2008, 18:04
what a tuff situation. The complete argument that fox and dogma present is the main reason that suiciding is so bad for the game.

You cant safely train new players or recruit new members with out knowing for sure if they are suiciders or not. Dogma is right, and so is Fox.

One other big thing is that nation leaders need to take responsibilities for there members, and if a suicider is found they need to be proactive in killing them.

Just like Fox I want my own nation for next set, but I am limited to only allowing people that I know in the nation which limits my nations success.

I do agree that larger nations should split up but that is only one small part of the problem in growing the community with training new players.

Personally I dont see why its so cool for some to kill top states....its too shallow for me to comprehend. Some of us just need to tighten up on the requirements to be a member of our nations.

here is a few that I think are a must.
1. Must have some sort of messaging service pref. msn.
2. Cannot leave the nation during the set or suffer the punishments for treason.
3. Show your flag!
etc...

This is definately something that the community needs to deal with not the TOS.

Dogma
04-23-2008, 18:04
of course we could always go back to what we did in the past... reinstate the state that has been suicided and then delete the state who suicided..

And IP ban the suiciding state?

I am collecting the warriors, this will happen.

Mr President
04-23-2008, 18:17
I don't think we need to IP ban them. I think if a state they suicide is reinstated and there's is deleted then after awhile they will get bored with it as there is no point..

If the same state suicided over and over again no matter what we do, then yea maybe a ban is needed..

Foxhound
04-23-2008, 18:30
And IP ban the suiciding state?

I am collecting the warriors, this will happen.

does this mean your leaving USA and making Dabutts???! if so w00t


Now me argueing against this does not mean I support suiciders or anything. The actions you are taking Dogma are actions of a suicider what just because you have more than one person with you doenst mean thats a suicide?. In this game I hate suiciders and do not believe in it but suiciding is a form of WAR and this game does support it. You cannot have a war game and not expect suiciding(as ive said suiciding is an opinion and we all have different views on suiciding) and as for IP banning a suicider and reinstating the state I cannot believe that was even said and I will not go into that discussion.


I do admire you for trying to take actions to stop and prevent suiciders but when the nation that had the suicider is looked upon to kill that state and handle it then there is a problem because it is not their responsibility to fight someone elses war.


As for reinstating this is NATION WARS you should expect to die or be suicided. Reinstating would just bring more opportunity for people to stay top ten(that sounds bad but you cannot play war game and be in top or going to be top and not expect to be attacked).


If you guys feel so strong perhaps we should change the name and remove any war options

Missionary
04-23-2008, 18:34
of course we could always go back to what we did in the past... reinstate the state that has been suicided and then delete the state who suicided..

that actually happened? so is suiciding now against the rules?

Dogma
04-23-2008, 18:37
does this mean your leaving USA and making Dabutts???! if so w00t


Now me argueing against this does not mean I support suiciders or anything. The actions you are taking Dogma are actions of a suicider what just because you have more than one person with you doenst mean thats a suicide?. In this game I hate suiciders and do not believe in it but suiciding is a form of WAR and this game does support it. You cannot have a war game and not expect suiciding(as ive said suiciding is an opinion and we all have different views on suiciding) and as for IP banning a suicider and reinstating the state I cannot believe that was even said and I will not go into that discussion.


I do admire you for trying to take actions to stop and prevent suiciders but when the nation that had the suicider is looked upon to kill that state and handle it then there is a problem because it is not their responsibility to fight someone elses war.

If you choose to think of me as a suicider, then you go right ahead. It couldn't possibly matter to me any less what you actually think. you can make your arguments because you haven't had a peaceful state running in the top spot and not bothering anyone and having his state and the NA wiped out because some ******* wants to get his jollies. If that is fine with you, then my actions to come should be fine with you as well. I will not be targeting nations, I will only be after suiciders, if that is not agreeable to you or your nation, then kill me, I can and have killed with restarts time and time again.

ooga booga
04-23-2008, 18:45
does this mean your leaving USA and making Dabutts???! if so w00t


Now me argueing against this does not mean I support suiciders or anything. The actions you are taking Dogma are actions of a suicider what just because you have more than one person with you doenst mean thats a suicide?. In this game I hate suiciders and do not believe in it but suiciding is a form of WAR and this game does support it. You cannot have a war game and not expect suiciding(as ive said suiciding is an opinion and we all have different views on suiciding) and as for IP banning a suicider and reinstating the state I cannot believe that was even said and I will not go into that discussion.


I do admire you for trying to take actions to stop and prevent suiciders but when the nation that had the suicider is looked upon to kill that state and handle it then there is a problem because it is not their responsibility to fight someone elses war.


As for reinstating this is NATION WARS you should expect to die or be suicided. Reinstating would just bring more opportunity for people to stay top ten(that sounds bad but you cannot play war game and be in top or going to be top and not expect to be attacked).


If you guys feel so strong perhaps we should change the name and remove any war options

You can think that all you want but that is just going to get you killed. lol. Do you see what happened to KIHT this set? They were the main nation that harbored suiciders and look where they are now. Completely dead. And if you go about with your mentality that's where you will end up too, lol. Just saying. :)

Foxhound
04-23-2008, 18:46
If you choose to think of me as a suicider, then you go right ahead. It couldn't possibly matter to me any less what you actually think. you can make your arguments because you haven't had a peaceful state running in the top spot and not bothering anyone and having his state and the NA wiped out because some ******* wants to get his jollies. If that is fine with you, then my actions to come should be fine with you as well. I will not be targeting nations, I will only be after suiciders, if that is not agreeable to you or your nation, then kill me, I can and have killed with restarts time and time again.

First off why are you getting hostile i thought we loved each other

Second you dont think im mad that someone destroyed over 30+ bil of my money so no top for foxy and just because your in the bottom doesnt mean your not gona get screwed.

Dogma
04-23-2008, 18:54
I'm not hostile toward you Fox, I thought we did too, I am just tired of the **** rampant *******s running thru out the game, and I am not alone. we will put a stop to it, or we will just be better at finding them before they can ruin an innocent states game.

Everyone else is going to sit on their hands and ***** about it and do nothing, well, I am not sitting on my hands. As has been stated, it is an angry world out there and I have now been angered. So mine is an acceptable way to play the game, I just have certain targets that I will attack and attack regularly.

Foxhound
04-23-2008, 18:57
You can think that all you want but that is just going to get you killed. lol. Do you see what happened to KIHT this set? They were the main nation that harbored suiciders and look where they are now. Completely dead. And if you go about with your mentality that's where you will end up too, lol. Just saying. :)




If that what happens then I understand I completely agree with your arguements but I do believe in not having to worry next set about mass recruiting and picking up a few bad lemons. I want Nation-wars to grow and I do not want to see nations being destroyed or scared/bullied by bigger nations.

I really hope more people come in to join and help me make my point cause this is gona turn into a gangbang on me soon. :crying:

I just want nations to be able to play and grow without worrying about anything(nation-wars is my home and I want it to succeed and grow)

Dogma
04-23-2008, 19:02
If that what happens then I understand I completely agree with your arguements but I do believe in not having to worry next set about mass recruiting and picking up a few bad lemons. I want Nation-wars to grow and I do not want to see nations being destroyed or scared/bullied by bigger nations.

I really hope more people come in to join and help me make my point cause this is gona turn into a gangbang on me soon. :crying:

I just want nations to be able to play and grow without worrying about anything(nation-wars is my home and I want it to succeed and grow)

How is it gonna be a gangbang on you? And I am not speaking for anyone butmyself and 3 or 4 others that are tired of it, i am not speaking for USA as I will not be acting from USA next set. And I may not be welcome back in USA after i am finished

ooga booga
04-23-2008, 19:05
If that what happens then I understand I completely agree with your arguements but I do believe in not having to worry next set about mass recruiting and picking up a few bad lemons. I want Nation-wars to grow and I do not want to see nations being destroyed or scared/bullied by bigger nations.

I really hope more people come in to join and help me make my point cause this is gona turn into a gangbang on me soon. :crying:

I just want nations to be able to play and grow without worrying about anything(nation-wars is my home and I want it to succeed and grow)

Well I'm not picking you, I understand your argument about letting in people you don't know because every nation wants to be the best, and you need members for that to happen. I understand that. But there are still precautions that nation leaders can take, like making sure states don't hide their flags, and when they do suicide you have to take the suicider out. If you let people in and they go off harming other nations, and you don't think you are responsible for anything and "it's not your fight" then you will soon find that it is your fight when the victim nation comes knocking at your door. :p So I agree it's hard to not let people into your nation but if you don't want trouble you can't let in suiciders and after they leave say it's not your problem. :)

youngwebsolutions
04-23-2008, 19:18
I don't think we need to IP ban them. I think if a state they suicide is reinstated and there's is deleted then after awhile they will get bored with it as there is no point..

also referring to Maggio's post..


most top nation are over 25 members.
All new people, or non veterans, less active people etc etc.. can't do much warring really..
IF you are in smaller nation, the only way, of doing some damage is to pick a target attack it and see if you can break him.. It might kill you off, but again this is the smaller players 5 minutes of FAME.

Obvious this is done by end of set, since the set will end soon anyway..


SO this is the Dilemma:
- should we protect members in a HUGE nation, who could grow easily and benefit of being in big nation, AND STILL be not strong enough?!
- or should we encourage smaller nations trying to get experience and have some fun in last days of a set?

repeatinly killing the same state over and over again, for no reason is however a totally different story..


I've said this before, install a max. nation size (member number). this will equal out more the nations.
It is mentioned before, we might get USA1, USA2, LOL1, LOL2 etc etc. but think about this, after 1/2 a set, the NEW leader, wants to make his own decisions, gets new member who have no connection with the original split off and a REAL new nation is born!

As long as you have huge differences in opportunities for different members, people will be anixious, or jalous and MIGHT therefore suicide just to gain some self esteem.

take a look at real life, WHY do so many countries/people dislike the USA? not only in middle east, but also in europe, asia etc etc
Most heard comment: USA is too big, and rule the world too much.. with their way of life

Dogma
04-23-2008, 19:26
also referring to Maggio's post..


most top nation are over 25 members.
All new people, or non veterans, less active people etc etc.. can't do much warring really..
IF you are in smaller nation, the only way, of doing some damage is to pick a target attack it and see if you can break him.. It might kill you off, but again this is the smaller players 5 minutes of FAME.

Obvious this is done by end of set, since the set will end soon anyway..


SO this is the Dilemma:
- should we protect members in a HUGE nation, who could grow easily and benefit of being in big nation, AND STILL be not strong enough?!
- or should we encourage smaller nations trying to get experience and have some fun in last days of a set?

repeatinly killing the same state over and over again, for no reason is however a totally different story..


I've said this before, install a max. nation size (member number). this will equal out more the nations.
It is mentioned before, we might get USA1, USA2, LOL1, LOL2 etc etc. but think about this, after 1/2 a set, the NEW leader, wants to make his own decisions, gets new member who have no connection with the original split off and a REAL new nation is born!

As long as you have huge differences in opportunities for different members, people will be anixious, or jalous and MIGHT therefore suicide just to gain some self esteem.

take a look at real life, WHY do so many countries/people dislike the USA? not only in middle east, but also in europe, asia etc etc
Most heard comment: USA is too big, and rule the world too much.. with their way of life

I'm sorry, but what has this got to do with the suiciders ruining ppls ability to play and have fun? USA is not involved in my decision.

I'll say it again... USA IS NOT INVOLVED IN MY DECISION, I AM ACTING ALONE, OUTSIDE USA. I WILL NOT BE IN USA NEXT SET.

My decision to leave USA and go on my quest is mine and mine alone. Does that clear anything up for you?

And if being a prick is raising self esteem, then pity those ppl. That is a crock

Limiting nation size hasn't ever worked in the past, why do you think it would work now?

youngwebsolutions
04-23-2008, 19:32
1: I'll say it again... USA IS NOT INVOLVED IN MY DECISION, I AM ACTING ALONE, OUTSIDE USA. I WILL NOT BE IN USA NEXT SET.
2: Limiting nation size hasn't ever worked in the past, why do you think it would work now?

1.: please read better: i wasn't talking about nation USA, i was talking about the COUNTRY USA

2.: I don't know the past, and I explained why I THINK it MIGHT work :)


I just wanna point out, there are always 2 (or more) sides of the story..
what is the best one... I don't know..:sleep:

Mr President
04-23-2008, 19:36
also referring to Maggio's post..


most top nation are over 25 members.
All new people, or non veterans, less active people etc etc.. can't do much warring really..
IF you are in smaller nation, the only way, of doing some damage is to pick a target attack it and see if you can break him.. It might kill you off, but again this is the smaller players 5 minutes of FAME.

Obvious this is done by end of set, since the set will end soon anyway..


SO this is the Dilemma:
- should we protect members in a HUGE nation, who could grow easily and benefit of being in big nation, AND STILL be not strong enough?!
- or should we encourage smaller nations trying to get experience and have some fun in last days of a set?

repeatinly killing the same state over and over again, for no reason is however a totally different story..


I've said this before, install a max. nation size (member number). this will equal out more the nations.
It is mentioned before, we might get USA1, USA2, LOL1, LOL2 etc etc. but think about this, after 1/2 a set, the NEW leader, wants to make his own decisions, gets new member who have no connection with the original split off and a REAL new nation is born!

As long as you have huge differences in opportunities for different members, people will be anixious, or jalous and MIGHT therefore suicide just to gain some self esteem.

take a look at real life, WHY do so many countries/people dislike the USA? not only in middle east, but also in europe, asia etc etc
Most heard comment: USA is too big, and rule the world too much.. with their way of life

Having large nations is not the problem here. Suiciders are the problem. And it's not just large nations that are effected by this. and just cause a state is in a large nation does not mean he can be any better then a small state nation.

Look at FED. There was a member in there that was in the top 5 (maybe 10 can't remember) and FED only has 3 members. But what happened? he was suicided on. Why? what did he do? he didn't bully anyone, didn't do anything illegal, he was killed cause someone wanted to have what they think is fun. Now there is a dead state where the member worked hard all set at making and all that time spent looking for grabs and building the best state is gone.

I'm all for wars. and if a top state loses it in war then so be it. Maybe his leader is war hungry and only cares about himself, who knows...

As for the nation cap, i'm not against it. I just don't want to do it right now. It's the first set and i want to see how things pan out. if after 3 or 4 sets things are still the same, then sure we will do a cap.

BUT here is my flip side. Why should a nation be punished for being a good nation or a popular nation? To use your RL example, why should USA not be liked cause of our way of life? Should we destroy all we have and build mud houses? People complain an awful lot about the USA, but i bet if we were gone or stopped helping everyone there views would change.. But this is a whole other matter lol..

When WoW was packed with people there were no caps on nations. Smaller nations started all the time. USA started with 3 members and was a small spec on the charts. But we were dedicated and aimed at being a great nation. So now all these years of hard work we should be punished for this?
We don't bother anyone. We help the smaller nations get on there feet. We offer some protection to smaller nations while getting on there feet. I could go on and on.

So there is 2 sides to this nation capping.. I see and understand both sides, but again i would really like to see how things pan out before we make any changes to the game.

northbabylon
04-23-2008, 19:37
I am mixed at the moment. I want the suiciders out, what makes this game so great is that it does have rules. Other games you can hit a certain state until you wanna stop on your own will. One state could just pick on one state the whole set and nothing would be wrong with it. Repeatingly killing the suiciding states is a win for them. They are taking away from YOUR set. Which is what they want to do. There are just some people out there that just like to cause misery on other people for no reason at all. Right now, i can not think of a solution, but I am sure we can think of one soon.

Dogma
04-23-2008, 19:38
1.: please read better: i wasn't talking about nation USA, i was talking about the COUNTRY USA

2.: I don't know the past, and I explained why I THINK it MIGHT work :)


I just wanna point out, there are always 2 (or more) sides of the story..
what is the best one... I don't know..:sleep:

Why make an anti American post in this thread? That was just out of line. What was your point in making a political statement in this a game related thread?

If you want to make an anti American statement pls start your own thread in General Discussions, then I can completely ignore it.

Stay on topic please. This thread is not about America or your opinions of it.

Foxhound
04-23-2008, 19:38
also referring to Maggio's post..


most top nation are over 25 members.
All new people, or non veterans, less active people etc etc.. can't do much warring really..
IF you are in smaller nation, the only way, of doing some damage is to pick a target attack it and see if you can break him.. It might kill you off, but again this is the smaller players 5 minutes of FAME.

Obvious this is done by end of set, since the set will end soon anyway..


SO this is the Dilemma:
- should we protect members in a HUGE nation, who could grow easily and benefit of being in big nation, AND STILL be not strong enough?!
- or should we encourage smaller nations trying to get experience and have some fun in last days of a set?

repeatinly killing the same state over and over again, for no reason is however a totally different story..


I've said this before, install a max. nation size (member number). this will equal out more the nations.
It is mentioned before, we might get USA1, USA2, LOL1, LOL2 etc etc. but think about this, after 1/2 a set, the NEW leader, wants to make his own decisions, gets new member who have no connection with the original split off and a REAL new nation is born!

As long as you have huge differences in opportunities for different members, people will be anixious, or jalous and MIGHT therefore suicide just to gain some self esteem.

take a look at real life, WHY do so many countries/people dislike the USA? not only in middle east, but also in europe, asia etc etc
Most heard comment: USA is too big, and rule the world too much.. with their way of life



you say fun in the last few days warring....what makes you think warring is fun i find stocking a whole round and jumping to first is alot more fun than warring


but besides the fact this is something that can go on forever and wont ever be solved. And i hope that it always remains never to be solved because if admins change the game to their personal preference it will ruin the game.


I just hope next set new/small nations arent going to be expected to do anything for another nation unless allied etc.

Dogma
04-23-2008, 19:43
you say fun in the last few days warring....what makes you think warring is fun i find stocking a whole round and jumping to first is alot more fun than warring


but besides the fact this is something that can go on forever and wont ever be solved. And i hope that it always remains never to be solved because if admins change the game to their personal preference it will ruin the game.


I just hope next set new/small nations arent going to be expected to do anything for another nation unless allied etc.

I just want to ask, why do you keep implying that smaller nations are gonna be required to do anything? There is not a nation in this game that makes smaller nation do what they want them to. I am just curious to you thinking on this

Mr President
04-23-2008, 19:46
but besides the fact this is something that can go on forever and wont ever be solved. And i hope that it always remains never to be solved because if admins change the game to their personal preference it will ruin the game.


When i threw out the whole reinstating a state and deleting a suicider i was simply pointing out that we tried that in WoW. Svenne did it a few times and it calmed the suicides a little.. But when he stopped doing it they started again.

One thing i want to make clear again is, i don't change things to this game on a whim. NOTHING ever gets changed without the majority's approval. And the votes come from the people not the admins. I want the people to decide how things are done around here not just the admins.

Of course certain rules are set by admins thats a given, but day to day game play rule and regulations are set by the people...

Nation-Wars govt is for the people and by the people lol..

seriously though, we all play this. Many purchase premium accounts and support this game so i look at all of this as "all of our game" and all of us decide on what is best for it..

So now you know and be sure that this game will never be changed to just admins likings.. :)

youngwebsolutions
04-23-2008, 19:48
Why make an anti American post in this thread? That was just out of line. What was your point in making a political statement in this a game related thread?

If you want to make an anti American statement pls start your own thread in General Discussions, then I can completely ignore it.

Stay on topic please. This thread is not about America or your opinions of it.

1: about country usa: it is relevant due to discussion about size and somebody's assosiation with it..


2: it is not my personal opion.. again, read better, I'm just stating that bigger nations/states might get unwanted attention of people with bad intentions


3: i'm against people who destory other peoples fun (e.g. suiciders)
BUT i'm also pointing out, not every suicider is just out for destroying other peoples fun.
Also my post includes SUGGESTIONS to face the problem that for sure exists.

now a question to heat up the discussions:
what makes you differ from a suicider if you just start killin other states, which behaviour you don't like?

Dogma
04-23-2008, 19:55
As I said before if you want to call me a suicider, ok, I am a suicider. if you want to call me a **** spider monkey, I am a spider monkey. The only difference is i will be saving innocent ppl from losing their states I will only be targeting the pricks that are out to ruin the fun for the whole community. If that to you is wrong and you are against that, I amy have to add a name to the target list so you can understand how it feels to have your entire set ruined for no reason.

We have ppl that have come back to the game and I will be ****ed if I am going to sit idly by and allow these simpleminded ppl run off the people that we are getting to play. Ok, I am a suicider, but watch my targets and watch how many innocent state I am able to help save their fun.

I am through trying to explain myself, you believe that it is all in game play, so I am playing the **** game.

youngwebsolutions
04-23-2008, 20:01
Ok, I am a suicider, but watch my targets and watch how many innocent state I am able to help save their fun.

I am through trying to explain myself, you believe that it is all in game play, so I am playing the **** game.

you are free to do that! :rolleyes:
I't all in the game!!
lol

MAGGIO
04-23-2008, 21:06
Dogma, just chill and calm down for a moment. Maybe sleep on it. Right now your just blowing off steem on people that are not even suiciders.

The main problem here is that some like to net and some like to war. Some think winning is being in first place on NW, and some think winning is killing the most states. I really dont want to here a bunch of whining from netters. you cant net forever. Surely you can net sometimes, but sometimes your gonna have to pick up your guns and defend yourselves here.

Bottom line is that a game full of netters would suck, and a game full of warrers would suck too. Sometimes the balance is out of whack ( who could blame it in the first set and all) and sometimes the balance is beautiful.

A hunt for suiciders will only fuel there fire. Not saying that we should do nothing, just saying people that suicide are getting a kick out of pissing people off like Dogma right now. If your mad show us your mad on the battle field, dont go on some rant against non suiciding members cause your mad at the suiciders.

Just for the record. I am totally against admin actions against suiciders. Since there is no factual definition then there cannot be a rule against it. Some nations fight as a huge mega army, and some nations or individuals fight in small factions.

Dogma
04-23-2008, 21:11
Maggio, the problem ids here that you are one of the main ones to ***** about things and come up with all the solutions but when it comes down to the real deal, you are no where to be found.

You sleep on it.

If this is the your opinion, I don't want to hear a **** thing if you suffer thru it, it is time to fish or cut bait with this crap. if any of your states get suicided, you handle it.

I will do what I will do, and there is nothing you can say that will change it. You want suiciders to stay, ok, get ready, here I come.

And I am on a rant to those that seem to support suiciding. If you support suiciding, then I will be right up your alley, but I don't want to hear any crying if it bites you

Xavior
04-23-2008, 21:13
I think part of winning as a netter is not being screwed over by suiciders or getting into a war. It is part of the challenge. Because there is a very thin line between suiciding and warring. And this game needs warring.

MAGGIO
04-23-2008, 21:14
I completely back you in your purpose 100%. Im just saying dont go flipping out on people that arent even the ones that got you all fueled up. Dont go showing your hand to the ones that you are against. The suiciders that are reading this are having a party with the fact that you are all bent on this. Lets just hunt them down and kill them instead of biting the heads off of the people that we want to help.

MAGGIO
04-23-2008, 21:16
<double post violation>

Sleep with the enemy. Lets go Gurilla on their arses and beat them at their own game. Sounds like that is what you want to do with a faction of states, but why are you going public telling everyone including the suiciders what you are doing.

ooga booga
04-23-2008, 21:21
<double post violation>

Sleep with the enemy. Lets go Gurilla on their arses and beat them at their own game. Sounds like that is what you want to do with a faction of states, but why are you going public telling everyone including the suiciders what you are doing.

Because he doesn't need to hide like the suiciders do. :) He will tell it to their face he will kill them, and then... he'll kill them. :P

MAGGIO
04-23-2008, 21:45
whats the old saying... it takes one to know one?

Norrisville
04-23-2008, 23:02
Okay, so Dogma is a little ticked.... throw him a bone..
anyway, this is a very well balanced debate here, but maggio brings up a great point of not revealing your hand to the suiciders. as many have said previously, suiciders aim to ruin ones set and piss them off. We have seen an example of this very recently, in the form of DM taking out a top 10 state of a small nation on the last 24 hours of the set. This, although I admit is smart suiciding, cant go unpunished.. I agree that admins should stay out of this, but killing the suiciders again and again and again is justified... but the only way to fight fire is with fire, and if the suiciders hide around wait for their time to strike, then people who hunt for suiciders have to do the same. problems such as nation capping is something that needs time to work itself out before we intervene ourselves....
dogma, i think it's awesome what you're doing, hell im considering joining your cause, just relax a little champ...dirk you have some awesome ideas, too, ones that we should not put away, but should keep them on the side until the time is right..

Missionary
04-24-2008, 08:06
Look at FED. There was a member in there that was in the top 5 (maybe 10 can't remember) and FED only has 3 members. But what happened? he was suicided on. Why? what did he do? he didn't bully anyone, didn't do anything illegal, he was killed cause someone wanted to have what they think is fun. Now there is a dead state where the member worked hard all set at making and all that time spent looking for grabs and building the best state is gone.

thats not suiciding what happened to the FED state, thats getting killed.


Well I'm not picking you, I understand your argument about letting in people you don't know because every nation wants to be the best, and you need members for that to happen. I understand that. But there are still precautions that nation leaders can take, like making sure states don't hide their flags, and when they do suicide you have to take the suicider out. If you let people in and they go off harming other nations, and you don't think you are responsible for anything and "it's not your fight" then you will soon find that it is your fight when the victim nation comes knocking at your door. :p So I agree it's hard to not let people into your nation but if you don't want trouble you can't let in suiciders and after they leave say it's not your problem. :)

can we have the flag system removed then, if not displaying your flag is going to get you killed then it should be removed.

youngwebsolutions
04-24-2008, 08:35
can we have the flag system removed then, if not displaying your flag is going to get you killed then it should be removed.

simple solution, enable flags for everyboy by administration.. :closedeyes:

Divine Intervention
04-24-2008, 10:54
thats not suiciding what happened to the FED state, thats getting killed.

thats perfect example of a suicide fool :sleep:
the only difference was the target was in a nation as small as the suiciders.

swede7
04-24-2008, 11:45
What is the difference between warring and suiciding?

I mean technically the only reason DM died was because USA stepped in. If that hadn't happened I think some of them would still be alive and it would not be suicide right?

Unless this difference can be definitively and without a doubt defined there should never be an IP ban because of suiciding in my opinion.

Mr President
04-24-2008, 11:48
USA did NOT kill them cause they hit FED.. DM suicided a few of our states a few days ago with spy attacks. That is why we hit them.

Dogma
04-24-2008, 12:37
USA did NOT kill them cause they hit FED.. DM suicided a few of our states a few days ago with spy attacks. That is why we hit them.
AND they continued trying to hit our top states.

The fact that the FED state was killed is unfortunate, however my problem is with the act of the genocides on our top state and the repeated failed spy ops on our other 3 top states.

I am sure I will be a target when I make my final move and that is ok, at least it will cause them to use their turns on me instead of the states that have not caused any problems.

ranger2112
04-24-2008, 12:48
whew, i have read through all this and i am tired. lol. both sides have valid points. banning a suicider..pfft never...that is not fun. '

Dogma, they are right...u ranting on here is just making them happy and successful. dont give them the privilidge...just speak soft and carry a big stick :) as to suiciding being illegal...nah thats part of the game...everyone has killed someone or been involved in a kill and sometimes it was just for ****s and giggles. this is a war game and war it shall be.

Dogma, have a great time doing what u are setting out to do....kill em all over and over again. :):):) . . . hey P can i have his job???LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

Dogma
04-24-2008, 13:21
at least there was a little excitement in the forums for a day, anyway. :P

Calvin74
04-24-2008, 18:00
btw just throwing out my 2 cents

tag limits will not work you guys are welcome to try them and since i think i am 1 of maybe 3 people (actually i think i was the only one) that played when there actually were tag limits not just when there was talk of it. you instate them and sure it might seem to help but in the end you will end up with all the top players in 1 nation sooner or later since that is what benifiets them the most or you will wind up with not knowing where half of wlf is so when you try to war them you get slaughtered. there are other reason but once again you are welcome to try them. (the main reason being that people will and have quit before since they want to play with their friends and if you limit who they can play with then they get pissed:P)

personally i am all for getting rid of flags
what does it matter if your suicider is american/russian/bulgarian or estonian? you are still screwed over regardless of who did it. people that really want to hide their flags if you force them to will just use proxies and then you are no better off then before. people are using flags to make judgemental desicions about the state and that is just wrong and racist.

MAGGIO
04-24-2008, 18:48
good points

Mr President
04-24-2008, 21:49
btw just throwing out my 2 cents

tag limits will not work you guys are welcome to try them and since i think i am 1 of maybe 3 people (actually i think i was the only one) that played when there actually were tag limits not just when there was talk of it. you instate them and sure it might seem to help but in the end you will end up with all the top players in 1 nation sooner or later since that is what benifiets them the most or you will wind up with not knowing where half of wlf is so when you try to war them you get slaughtered. there are other reason but once again you are welcome to try them. (the main reason being that people will and have quit before since they want to play with their friends and if you limit who they can play with then they get pissed:P)

personally i am all for getting rid of flags
what does it matter if your suicider is american/russian/bulgarian or estonian? you are still screwed over regardless of who did it. people that really want to hide their flags if you force them to will just use proxies and then you are no better off then before. people are using flags to make judgemental desicions about the state and that is just wrong and racist.

There are more then 3 here. Unless i'm remembering wrong and it was earlier then i think, but i'm pretty sure svenne put it on for about 3 sets 2yrs or so before the game went down. He did it for the exact same reasons people are mentioning it here.. Then when it didn't work he took it off.. I do know it didn't last to long.. Maybe he also tried it before my time in WoW but when i was there it was only one time.

There are a few different reasons why the flags were put on.. But i won't go into all of it.. Really doesn't matter to me if they are on or not. I can make the default "false" and then ppl can elect to show them or not..

Crimson Shadow
04-24-2008, 22:13
There are more then 3 here. Unless i'm remembering wrong and it was earlier then i think, but i'm pretty sure svenne put it on for about 3 sets 2yrs or so before the game went down.

I played for 3 years, and there was never a nation cap (besides the 200 rule)

Mr President
04-24-2008, 22:18
lol.. grrrr well then i guess it was a little before.. but i remember him doing it cause i remember not liking it one bit! :bored:

northbabylon
04-25-2008, 02:31
i remember there being one in chaos...99 state limit...

Missionary
04-25-2008, 06:14
99 state limit? we had mare than 150 odd states in our nation we made :)


simple solution, enable flags for everyboy by administration.. :closedeyes:

or why not just make everyone use there forums names, so everyone knows who they are?


thats perfect example of a suicide fool :sleep:
the only difference was the target was in a nation as small as the suiciders.

um no fool, they declared on FED and killed one of them and then got killed by another nation. they could have wanted to continue the war and go onto win. there for not expecting to die and NOT suiciding. there attacks on USA can be consider suiciding but not the ones on the FED state.

Max Logan
04-25-2008, 14:20
btw just throwing out my 2 cents

tag limits will not work you guys are welcome to try them and since i think i am 1 of maybe 3 people (actually i think i was the only one) that played when there actually were tag limits not just when there was talk of it. you instate them and sure it might seem to help but in the end you will end up with all the top players in 1 nation sooner or later since that is what benifiets them the most or you will wind up with not knowing where half of wlf is so when you try to war them you get slaughtered. there are other reason but once again you are welcome to try them. (the main reason being that people will and have quit before since they want to play with their friends and if you limit who they can play with then they get pissed:P)

personally i am all for getting rid of flags
what does it matter if your suicider is american/russian/bulgarian or estonian? you are still screwed over regardless of who did it. people that really want to hide their flags if you force them to will just use proxies and then you are no better off then before. people are using flags to make judgemental desicions about the state and that is just wrong and racist.

i can see the **** ip...

Calvin74
04-25-2008, 16:54
right but if they go through a proxy then it changes their ip.......