Suiciding states

[Norrisville]

since I'm calm, I'll make a poll
I hope that's what Dogma's trying to find out... I didn't really take too much time on it either but hell. I'm curious as to what people think.

[northbabylon]

seems like theres a pretty definate answer as of now..

[Guy77]

i posted on the other one, but i figure i will post here as well too

After reading your poll choices i figured i would do some reading

I Agree that it is annoying
I Agree that it ruins the game for Other, But not everyone
I Disagree that it is against the rules ( your first poll choice)
and Agree that it is up to us to prevent suiciders from ruling the game

Unless the Game TOS or User TOS is ammended to not allow suiciding there really isn't anything we can do about it except kill them, or suck it up

[Norrisville]

i posted on the other one, but i figure i will post here as well too

After reading your poll choices i figured i would do some reading

I Agree that it is annoying
I Agree that it ruins the game for Other, But not everyone
I Disagree that it is against the rules ( your first poll choice)
and Agree that it is up to us to prevent suiciders from ruling the game

Unless the Game TOS or User TOS is ammended to not allow suiciding there really isn't anything we can do about it except kill them, or suck it up

you say it ruins the game for others, but not everyone because you've never been suicided before, and I haven't either, but it still ruins the game for everyone. That FED state deserves to be in the top 10, but instead, someone else is there. If I finished @ #10 I wouldn't be able to help but think that I got an assist from suiciders. Most people think it's our responsibility and that's how I think it should be..

[mechdestroyer]

I just dont see the difference between warring and suiciding, if you said that suiciding was an unjust war, then fine, if the state and nation that was attacked was for no reason, then call that a suicide war, but wars are fought for stupider reasons then no reasons

Plus as a top guy who would you want to fight, try fighting a small nation that nobody would notice but what if you could take out a top guy you get that glory for a moment.

sucks being suicided on as i have been, but it just makes me try even more. Plus can make for some really good wars, but that doesnt happen yet

[Minimus]

LOL is just a nation of organized suiciders anyway.

[Calvin74]

minimus you say that and it makes me wonder if you just run around spouting **** becuase you don't know better or you just like to say random crap to see what people say either way i will ignore your comment




norrisville as someone that has been suicided on many many times and lost many many #1 and top 5 finishes due to suiciding i hate it more then anyone but as of right now suiciding isn't against the rules no matter how bad for the game it is. also how do you define suiciding as opposed to a small nation warring a big nation? until you can come up with a catch all definition you would have to count on people to be unbaised and having a few people that will look at every multiple hit and AA in the game to see if the state that got hit deserves to be rolled back and which state deserved it.

it is a very fine line to walk there
there are some ideas to make suiciding harder but the key there is limiting stocker and you have to ask if that is something you want to do. in a few sets i will put up some ideas if there problems still exsist. don't think that this sudden epidemic is the worst it has ever been. as much as it does suck you will survive. (even though i wanted to break my comp from time to time you get over it after a few years:P) although deep down i still hate scav for his suicide on me just to see the effect of spy ops:P

[Minimus]

nice work both ignoring and replying to the comment. to be honest, I don't give a **** either way. That being said, it's comments like yours that cause people like me to not want to play or post. I make fun of your mighty nation a little bit, and get shunned for it. Whatever *** head.

[Calvin74]

i have just seen you spamming the **** out of people posts and that just gets things off topic and deflects the issue

if you want attention that bad make your own post

[Minimus]

This is actually right on topic. You guys have always done this, when the game went down and the new crap started, I noticed it the worst. You don't like people who come into this game who aren't all buddy buddy with you. C'mon, you took on the estonians from day one, or they took on you, whatever. You put them down in the forums. Then they suicide on your dumb asses and you get pissed about it. What the hell? If you don't want suiciders, and you want new people to enjoy the game, try being civil to them instead of putting them down. Honestly, it might help, but like anything in this community, I'm an outsider and my opinion means ****. There's no point in trying to change anyone's perspective here. I think that's why alot of people don't come back. They tried to change things and nothing ever happened because everyone here is so set in their ways. I could be wrong, I really don't care. That being said, I must say, Mr. P, you did an excellent job bringing this game back. I really gave it a shot, but warring the estonians was not my thing.

[Guy77]

Norrisville, i have not been suicided on, your right, but i have lost great states during times of war. It is different, but a warring nation can do well, if their top states don't die, and they return to netting =P (Land dropping is fun LOL)

Anyway

For the game to be ruined for everyone, everyone would have to be suicided on =P I havn't, so the game isn't ruined for me so your statement is not true

The responsibility is to whoever does not want suicided to worry about it, and if they don't want to be, then they have to play that way, not my problem, not my nations problem etc....... ( Now it becomes a nations problem if it effects their top members but not every nation is involved so still, not much justification in your statement)

=P

[swede7]

I actually see Minimus's point here. I've been around a long time, I don't post like ever but i observe things on the forums. Everyone asks for more players but then when they come its hard to break into the group. People want to do their own thing and if anyone rocks the boat they get beat down on the forums and in the game.

Yeah, i'm sure it's frustrating to get suicided on, but what else is a small nation to do to make an effect on the game? I just don't see any way it can be resolved fairly so it should just stay the way it is.

[evilnoob]

The fact is, if you are really a top 1 player, and if you really deserve to get top 1, then very few will be able to suicide you. If you really worked for your top 1 spot. If you play like a top 1 player then the last week you are almost immortal. Top 10 states needs to suicide you to take you down. Or more than 10 suiciders.

If you get suicided and lose your top 1 spot then its your own fault. If you get suicided from top 1 the last week, then you are not a top 1 player, you dont deserve top 1 and you deserve to be suicided. If you dont have what it takes to be top 1 player then you should not cry if you dont get top 1.

[Minimus]

I actually see Minimus's point here. I've been around a long time, I don't post like ever but i observe things on the forums. Everyone asks for more players but then when they come its hard to break into the group. People want to do their own thing and if anyone rocks the boat they get beat down on the forums and in the game.

Yeah, i'm sure it's frustrating to get suicided on, but what else is a small nation to do to make an effect on the game? I just don't see any way it can be resolved fairly so it should just stay the way it is.

**Applaudes** Someone agrees with me! I think alot of the nations you now consider suiciders, could be great in the long run. The only way to really establish themselves is to beat up on someone, even if it means they get killed themselves, basically suiciding. Like prison, make someone your *****. Then they post on the forums, make themselves known, you *** clowns beat them down, and the leave. Or.. someone could say to them, nice attacks, and they stay and their nation grows, and who knows, maybe they end up in WLF one day. What else is a new nation supossed to do? Just peacefully net until WLF gets bored and kills them off?

@evilnoob: excellent point. If someone wants to keep a top 10 state, they should be well defended in every area, not just have a zillion ships.

[Guy77]

**Applaudes** Someone agrees with me! I think alot of the nations you now consider suiciders, could be great in the long run. The only way to really establish themselves is to beat up on someone, even if it means they get killed themselves, basically suiciding. Like prison, make someone your *****. Then they post on the forums, make themselves known, you *** clowns beat them down, and the leave. Or.. someone could say to them, nice attacks, and they stay and their nation grows, and who knows, maybe they end up in WLF one day. What else is a new nation supossed to do? Just peacefully net until WLF gets bored and kills them off?

@evilnoob: excellent point. If someone wants to keep a top 10 state, they should be well defended in every area, not just have a zillion ships.

First of all when you insult other people by using fowl language you make yourself look very unintelligent. If you are going to make them look stupid ( and trust me calvin is pretty stupid lookin ;) ) then do it w/ logic

Secondly, No nation is going to sit back and take attacks from another nation. Sure we want more people to come, and learn to play, and follow rules. If it is a new player that does not understand 90% of the players will tell them. They won't kill them off for no reason.

Thirdly, Your right, if your playing in top 10 you know there is a risk of being suicided and you need to be careful. You can't just expect to be handed anything, sure suiciding is bull crap, but oh well

Fourthly, Re-reading your post makes me have another few things to add to this one. If they provoke a war, they are gonna get killed. No one does any " beating down" for no apparent reason. Except for suiciders =P If the whole nations ends up being suiciders, or the leaders do not work out retals and such, then sure, the nation is going to be killed. If they can't handle the strength of other nations, then they need to not start problems.

Fifthly, Beating up on someone is one way to re-establish them selves sure. But a nation of 10 - 20 is not going to beat up nations of 30-40. They get beat cause they are unorganized, out numbered, and probably outstocked. They need to form allies, establish them selves as diplomats, and war if need be and do a **** good job of it.

I think that just about covers your post. If WLF gets bored and decides to kill someone off, then it would probably be a **** good reason for that person to have allies. From what i've seen in the past they just dont' kill off little tiny nations, it is at least a semi-fair fight. With allies stepping in, probably a fair one.

[Calvin74]

lol


evil noob you know better then that:P
you know that any talented player can hit anyone in the game at pretty much any point at will

the game is just designed like that through no fault of anyone's but no one is safe
that is why suiciding is looked down on as it is bush league (i have never used that term before:P) noob you yourself know that no state can ever be fully invincible. you protect yourself from ships i get jets you have jets i get ships you get ships and jets i get spies....... it never ends there is no way to fully defend yourself


minimus i have no idea who you are so i don't know if you are an outsider or not but you are wrong in 1 fact the way to prove yourself isn't through war (as guy pointed out all a small nation warring a big nation does is get their *** kicked and get people to look down on them) you make a name for yourself through netting. When you look at the scores list what do you see? something that says man that state is a bad *** fighter or do you see the states nw?




i will grant you that everyone handled the estonian situation very badly
i haven't dealt with any of them but it seems like cash is a very reasonable nation and i don't know if kiht was just dumb or if noob was trying something (either way it didn't work out for them) lol went into the set looking to war them with or without a reason. i think they had a pretty good reason since estonians played different on their server and their rules didn't mesh well with the rules we have. they play a much more cut throat version of the game that doesn't look to involve netting skill but more of who can outlast who in a big suicide ring (and suicide is the word we use and i am sure they don't think of themselves as suiciders) there will be a big adjustment period for everyone as old rules get tossed or revised and people decide how they want to play.

[Dogma]

The fact is, if you are really a top 1 player, and if you really deserve to get top 1, then very few will be able to suicide you. If you really worked for your top 1 spot. If you play like a top 1 player then the last week you are almost immortal. Top 10 states needs to suicide you to take you down. Or more than 10 suiciders.

If you get suicided and lose your top 1 spot then its your own fault. If you get suicided from top 1 the last week, then you are not a top 1 player, you dont deserve top 1 and you deserve to be suicided. If you dont have what it takes to be top 1 player then you should not cry if you dont get top 1.

I want you to show me one of those invincible top spot states and lets see if you can hold it. If it is that only you know how to make that type of state and hold onto a top spot I am sure the community would like to see how it is done.

And also who are you to determine whether someone deserves to be in a top 1 or not. I don't remember you being voted the one with the authority or the knowledge to make that judgment. Just wondering where you derive your authority to make that decision for the rest of the game.

[Minimus]

lol

When you look at the scores list what do you see? something that says man that state is a bad *** fighter or do you see the states nw?

Bad *** fighters actually fight. This probably goes back to the whole, nation WARS thing, not nation NETTERS, but we won't go there cause it's **** annoying.

@Guy and whoever else. Eh, about the suiciding thing on LP's state. That state was alive when they declared war, and was for a few hours. At least I didn't see it dead. There was time to kill them before they killed that state. I even sent a message to the nation, which I am infamous for doing, asking if there was anything we were going to do. I got one response, and it had nothing to do with planning a strike.

@Dogma: Probably no such thing as an invincible state. Just some top ranked states are easier to kill than others. I'm just saying, if you're a top state, and you want to keep your ranking, it's probably best to be well rounded rather than just load up on ships if you don't want some dumbass to suicide you.

@Everyone: Remember the drink, "Suicide"? Like when you were a kid, and mixed all the soda's together? Man, that was some nasty ****, but I remember it fondly.

[Guy77]

First of all that was your most reasonable post yet, but still ridiculous

1. i do remember when i mixed all the drinks, it was crazy! =)

2. It is better to be well rounded, but its not going to save you, nuff said

3. Bad *** fighters do fight, but i'm not gonna get recognized for having 10 kills and finished 150th, it will be chalked up to experience, again, nuff said ( Sure i'm a bad *** warrer, but so what? i ranked 150th lol)

[Mr President]

lol.. you all crack me up.. but this is what i think i missed the most about WoW.. all the dang debating.

1st and most important.. Minimus is a good dude.. And most don't know how to take him, but his main goal is to keep things stirred up in the forums. Kinda like how Will use to get all those hot debates going in the old days.. lol
So nobody take offense to his comments. He is simply trying to keep things heated and moving.. (sorry minimus for letting your secret out)

2nd- @noob, though i agree that states need to take better measures to protect themselves, there is no way to be 100% safe and you know it. Someone could go all jets and by the 2nd week have millions more then anyone should realistically have.

And honestly who is to decide who is playing the proper way and who isn't?
Not one person should be the judge of that. If everyone played the same way, then man this game would be boring..

The game is designed for many different styles of play. Each of us has the right to play anyway we want. It was also designed to dominate. if you can dominate by netting then more power to you.. If you have to use war then thats great too.. But taking out someone state just cause they are not building the way you feel they should be, well thats kinda lame i think..

My thought on the matter is this. if someone is in the position you want then you either out net them or war them. To me that has honor and bravery.

And in conclusion, there are more then one way to make a name for yourself in this game. Main 2 are top netters and top warrers. Someone who gets high scores all the time has a good name and most people want them for there stock and scores. A nation that likes to war gains respect from other nations out of the fear of having to tangle with them. Me personally likes the diplomatic and warring power in the game. The USA has a good name, but not from netting lol.. It's from being fair, honest and also warring power as we have always done well in that area. Does this make us any better then anyone else? no, but USA is respected and people know that if we go to war we are only out for one thing... to destroy the enemy and make our point!

So bottom line is, each of us respect and look at things in a different way. Some think netters make a name, some think warring makes a name and in the end BOTH will make a name. As well as many other ways...


toodles! :dblthumbup:

[Norrisville]

Timeout for two seconds....

A few people aimed their suicide comments at me as if I were disagreeing. Absolutely not. I made this poll because a) there was much debate and b) dogma was going all foam-mouthed and made an odd poll so i cleaned it up...

Like I do in most debates like these, I take whoever puts their input in, and give them a reverse argument. I don't necessarily agree with this, I'm just trying to get more opinions, because a debate as one-sided as the poll result wouldn't be much fun, now would it?

I also see what minimus is saying, we basically exiled the estonians as a "different" group of players, and that resulted in a rift in our community. Also, my two cents is that people complain that there's no control and blah blah politics suiciding and i remember someone comparing USA the NW nation to USA the country... you just can't do that. This is a game, last time I checked, and it seems that some people forget that. We have more unwritten rules here than written ones, and the fact that most people follow these is a blessing in itself. People can do whatever the hell they want, because it's a game. Nothing is going to change that. That is one of the reasons I made that poll, to see who actually thinks there should be a concrete rule against suiciding, but there weren't any, which is a good thing in my opinion. This situation is something you just gotta deal with.... it's also no reason to "boycott" the game, but that's an entirely different issue..

[evilnoob]

I want you to show me one of those invincible top spot states and lets see if you can hold it. If it is that only you know how to make that type of state and hold onto a top spot I am sure the community would like to see how it is done.

A good top 1 player makes his (or her) state big very fast. You can suicide him first week. Second week it will be hard, third week you need team for it and last week you need one like me to tell you how :)

This is a team game. The top 1 player will have friends watching his state. If you dont make very fast GA or AR, they will AA you down. He will make you belive he is offline when he is not. He will work on getting a friend to your suicide team and make you fail.

A real top 1 state is never at peace. It is always war. He will try to find your suiciders and blow up their stuff.

[Guy77]

Evil, i don't really think anyone has friends like that ;) lol j/k

and i know if i want to take down one state, i am definitly gonna have 50mil jets and just be destroying him before someone notices ;)

[Minimus]

just thinking back on wow days.. could anyone have suicided jameswheel?

[Guy77]

I could have

But i uh, like him too much


yeah thats it <_< >_> <_<

[Minimus]

should have said, "successfully suicided"

[Guy77]

=) ah but i love being a master of what was literally said


* evil laugh*

[Rassputtin]

I actually see Minimus's point here. I've been around a long time, I don't post like ever but i observe things on the forums. Everyone asks for more players but then when they come its hard to break into the group. People want to do their own thing and if anyone rocks the boat they get beat down on the forums and in the game.

Yeah, i'm sure it's frustrating to get suicided on, but what else is a small nation to do to make an effect on the game? I just don't see any way it can be resolved fairly so it should just stay the way it is.

Attacking someone for no reason, outside of war. With no diplomatic fall out or provoking in anyway. Is not the way to build a name for yourself.

The fact is, if you are really a top 1 player, and if you really deserve to get top 1, then very few will be able to suicide you. If you really worked for your top 1 spot. If you play like a top 1 player then the last week you are almost immortal. Top 10 states needs to suicide you to take you down. Or more than 10 suiciders.

If you get suicided and lose your top 1 spot then its your own fault. If you get suicided from top 1 the last week, then you are not a top 1 player, you dont deserve top 1 and you deserve to be suicided. If you dont have what it takes to be top 1 player then you should not cry if you dont get top 1.

The fact is that you are the biggest cheater, and abuser of bugs this game/wow has ever seen. So that being said, the rest of your statment is garbage. There is nothing you can do. It doesn't matter. You spend all set beafing up a #1 state. Anyone who spends all set stocking will be able to prevent you from finishing #1 any time they choose. See you don't need to kill someone in order to prevent them from finishing first or top ten. You need only inflict enough damage to drop them from the rank they worked hard to earn.

**Applaudes** Someone agrees with me! I think alot of the nations you now consider suiciders, could be great in the long run. The only way to really establish themselves is to beat up on someone, even if it means they get killed themselves, basically suiciding. Like prison, make someone your *****. Then they post on the forums, make themselves known, you *** clowns beat them down, and the leave. Or.. someone could say to them, nice attacks, and they stay and their nation grows, and who knows, maybe they end up in WLF one day. What else is a new nation supossed to do? Just peacefully net until WLF gets bored and kills them off?

@evilnoob: excellent point. If someone wants to keep a top 10 state, they should be well defended in every area, not just have a zillion ships.

I haven't been playing so I don't know what the current beef is or who is calling who a suicider but for the record my definition of suicide is attacking for no reason then to ruin a set knowing full well you will lose the fight or be killed.

lol
evil noob you know better then that:P
you know that any talented player can hit anyone in the game at pretty much any point at will
the game is just designed like that through no fault of anyone's but no one is safe
that is why suiciding is looked down on as it is bush league (i have never used that term before:P) noob you yourself know that no state can ever be fully invincible. you protect yourself from ships i get jets you have jets i get ships you get ships and jets i get spies....... it never ends there is no way to fully defend yourself
minimus i have no idea who you are so i don't know if you are an outsider or not but you are wrong in 1 fact the way to prove yourself isn't through war (as guy pointed out all a small nation warring a big nation does is get their *** kicked and get people to look down on them) you make a name for yourself through netting. When you look at the scores list what do you see? something that says man that state is a bad *** fighter or do you see the states nw?
i will grant you that everyone handled the estonian situation very badly
i haven't dealt with any of them but it seems like cash is a very reasonable nation and i don't know if kiht was just dumb or if noob was trying something (either way it didn't work out for them) lol went into the set looking to war them with or without a reason. i think they had a pretty good reason since estonians played different on their server and their rules didn't mesh well with the rules we have. they play a much more cut throat version of the game that doesn't look to involve netting skill but more of who can outlast who in a big suicide ring (and suicide is the word we use and i am sure they don't think of themselves as suiciders) there will be a big adjustment period for everyone as old rules get tossed or revised and people decide how they want to play.

Exactly, doesnt matter how good noob thinks he is. Anyone who sets out to ensure he doesnt finish first needs only to know his state number and he will not. As i said i haven't been playing so I dont know what happened with the esto's. BUt suicide as I define it is lame.

Bad *** fighters actually fight. This probably goes back to the whole, nation WARS thing, not nation NETTERS, but we won't go there cause it's **** annoying.

@Guy and whoever else. Eh, about the suiciding thing on LP's state. That state was alive when they declared war, and was for a few hours. At least I didn't see it dead. There was time to kill them before they killed that state. I even sent a message to the nation, which I am infamous for doing, asking if there was anything we were going to do. I got one response, and it had nothing to do with planning a strike.

@Dogma: Probably no such thing as an invincible state. Just some top ranked states are easier to kill than others. I'm just saying, if you're a top state, and you want to keep your ranking, it's probably best to be well rounded rather than just load up on ships if you don't want some dumbass to suicide you.

@Everyone: Remember the drink, "Suicide"? Like when you were a kid, and mixed all the soda's together? Man, that was some nasty ****, but I remember it fondly.

Makes no differernce if your well rounded or not. If someone decides that they don't want you to finish there, you aint finishing there.

lol.. you all crack me up.. but this is what i think i missed the most about WoW.. all the dang debating.

1st and most important.. Minimus is a good dude.. And most don't know how to take him, but his main goal is to keep things stirred up in the forums. Kinda like how Will use to get all those hot debates going in the old days.. lol
So nobody take offense to his comments. He is simply trying to keep things heated and moving.. (sorry minimus for letting your secret out)

2nd- @noob, though i agree that states need to take better measures to protect themselves, there is no way to be 100% safe and you know it. Someone could go all jets and by the 2nd week have millions more then anyone should realistically have.

And honestly who is to decide who is playing the proper way and who isn't?
Not one person should be the judge of that. If everyone played the same way, then man this game would be boring..

The game is designed for many different styles of play. Each of us has the right to play anyway we want. It was also designed to dominate. if you can dominate by netting then more power to you.. If you have to use war then thats great too.. But taking out someone state just cause they are not building the way you feel they should be, well thats kinda lame i think..

My thought on the matter is this. if someone is in the position you want then you either out net them or war them. To me that has honor and bravery.

And in conclusion, there are more then one way to make a name for yourself in this game. Main 2 are top netters and top warrers. Someone who gets high scores all the time has a good name and most people want them for there stock and scores. A nation that likes to war gains respect from other nations out of the fear of having to tangle with them. Me personally likes the diplomatic and warring power in the game. The USA has a good name, but not from netting lol.. It's from being fair, honest and also warring power as we have always done well in that area. Does this make us any better then anyone else? no, but USA is respected and people know that if we go to war we are only out for one thing... to destroy the enemy and make our point!

So bottom line is, each of us respect and look at things in a different way. Some think netters make a name, some think warring makes a name and in the end BOTH will make a name. As well as many other ways...


toodles! :dblthumbup:

The thing is, both "warrers" and "netters" make a name, but suicide is neither of those.

A good top 1 player makes his (or her) state big very fast. You can suicide him first week. Second week it will be hard, third week you need team for it and last week you need one like me to tell you how :)

This is a team game. The top 1 player will have friends watching his state. If you dont make very fast GA or AR, they will AA you down. He will make you belive he is offline when he is not. He will work on getting a friend to your suicide team and make you fail.

A real top 1 state is never at peace. It is always war. He will try to find your suiciders and blow up their stuff.

Wrong. Unless you have a whole sets worth of units in each category of unit you will not finish where you should. As far as friends. There isn't anyone in this game that has someone watching thier state 24/7 with thier personal info to call them on the phone and say hey get on, or that each friend is strong enough to launch a counter in a moments notice. The damage will be done. And the key is damage. I'm not talking about killing your imaginary invincible state. I'm talking about doing enough damage to drop you. The land hungry power hungry rest of the top 20 will most certainly take advantage of your misfortune dropping you further. Then what you stop netting to retaliate. Or you try to keep netting to maintain. Which means Im still alive and getting more turns every 10 minutes. So then what you net but beef up the unit I hit you with. I just beef up the unit you neglected while beefing up the other one. Point is.

100% of one unit for a set will break any player at any point in the game.

just thinking back on wow days.. could anyone have suicided jameswheel?

should have said, "successfully suicided"

Yes if I remember correctly he was suicided on successfully and he wasn't happy about it.

Netting is netting. IMHO these are the gameplay mechanics of NW.

States and nations net. Sometimes there are riffs of which diplomacy needs to be used in order to prevent war or keep peace. Sometimes diplomacy breaks down and war breaks out. OTher times there are grudges from previous sets that lead to sneak attack FS's. But really its not a sneak attack because both nations know full well there is a grudge.

Other nations want to war and just sit an wait for a reason. If the reason doesn't come they choose somewhat of a fair fight and declare because they enjoy the process of warring. Alot of times when there are enough players in the game this causes escalation as both nations allies jump in which makes the war even more fun.

Then we have the suicide. The single state or nation of tiny states who's goal is to ruin the set of someone else. They don't do it for the love of war because they know they are all going to die and lose the war. They do it solely to ruin a set.

Hence the term suicide. Because they don't care about their state or the game they ruin it for someone else. That is the problem. Like I said I haven't been playing so maybe some of you are throwing the term suicider around pretty losely. Which is confusing the issue.

Bottom line is, if your attacking just to ruin a set. Not for the love of war, (because the love of war is trying to get kills yet survive and win the war) and you know full well there is 0% chance of your survival. Then you are a suicider. And something should be done to stop that scenario because that is not a strategy. Strategy is something used to get ahead, to get and edge, something used to win. Suicide is not a strategy and needs to be remedied.

[Rassputtin]

Those of you who think suicide as I have described it is a legitimate strategy and nothing should be done to try to remedy it, please send me a pm so I can make a list of people who need first hand experience with trying to counter this legitimate experience with thier imaginary balanced or invincible states. Because as much as I hate it, I am not above employing it in order to enlighten the ignorant.

[Minimus]

are you trying to find every suiciding thread to reply to? Could take a while.

[Rassputtin]

are you trying to find every suiciding thread to reply to? Could take a while.

No, just replying to the ones that are last replied to in the forum subtopics. I don't have the ambition to run a search and grave dig every one. :p

[Minimus]

yet you seem to have the ambition to write novels about suiciding that people will at most skim over, quote a line, and be done with?

[Max Logan]

you can suicide anyone! theres no protection against it. Esp if the suicider is a good netter (shame though), you can cripple or kill everyone.

[Rassputtin]

yet you seem to have the ambition to write novels about suiciding that people will at most skim over, quote a line, and be done with?

Yes. If you don't have the attention span to comprehend a few paragraphs then I'm not interested in discussing it with you. Besides there are those who care enough to read the whole thing.

[p-kitty]

I don't know much, but as far as I understand, Rassputtin makes a good point about suiciding the strategy vs suiciding the lame tactic. I mean... I can see how a couple could make things exciting, but a vendetta for nothing but chaos seems cruel.

[Rassputtin]

just thinking back on wow days.. could anyone have suicided jameswheel?

should have said, "successfully suicided"

Transcript from a Convo I had with Jameswheel, when he was suicided out of first spot after winning the previous set.

Patrick(4 and 2) says:
i got screwed worse then u did
Patrick(4 and 2) says:

Rass says:
i know, and i dont feel so bad now, but it still sucks ***
Rass says:

Patrick(4 and 2) says:
lol
Patrick(4 and 2) says:
going from 1st to 20th
Patrick(4 and 2) says:
and losing my not getting hit set
Patrick(4 and 2) says:
the not getting hit part
Patrick(4 and 2) says:
pissed me off
Patrick(4 and 2) says:
alot
Rass says:
not getting suicided on you mean
Patrick(4 and 2) says:
no i went Masta set without getting hit
Patrick(4 and 2) says:
i cuolda went this set too


He was owning that set. Just like the previous set. None of the other states in the top ten were even strong enough to LG him the entire Round. And then wham. Suicide.

So please no more talk of "well prepare better" or "have a more balanced state" or especially evil noob's "if your good enough you can have an invincible top state" rhetoric. Cause ain't none of it true.

[Mr President]

found this to be interesting.. this is when Svenne made suiciding illegal. He also gave his definition to what he felt suiciding was..



08:22 May 14 2004 - End of Round!
For next round there will be some more or less major changes. First of all Disorder will cease to exist, instead a new game will replace it. The name for this new game is The New Journey.

What has been changed/added is this:
States now have 100 times more population than before, this will have no effect on income, expenses or attacks as these has been modified to fit the new population. The reason for adding this is to make the game a bit more realistic in terms of numbers. Until now all states have had alot more military than than population and that is not really realistic. There might even be more room for changes on the population but that will not happen for this new round.

Stealing money/food is back. Money and food will at first only be stolen by spy-ops but if this works good it will be added to attacks aswell.

Military unit networths have been divided by 7 to get the networth numbers down a bit. 2 bil networth will now instead be more like 300 mil networth. The networths were becoming quite redicilous and I think this will take care of it.

Suiciding will from now on be against the rules. If someone get suicided on this should be reported using the in-game reporting tool. Upon reporting the case will be manually looked at. If it is a suicide then the affected states will get restored to the last known good backup. Backups will be made every 1 or 6 hours havent decided which yet. The suicider(s) will get their accounts disabled.
What is a suicide then? Generally a suicide is defined as when a state or a group of states buy alot of jets/bombers/spies or ships and then go insane on some top states for no obvious reason. Every reported case will be dealt with and looked at manually. I'm pretty sure that there will be some people that don't like this change but it is really needed. Alot of people quit the game because they are suicided upon for no reason and this negative trend have to stop. Instead of just go and suicide on someone people have to learn how to declare war and run a proper war together with their fellow nation mates. However if a high-ranked person does not have proper defense (goes 100% ships or something crazy like that) and think he/she can get away with it he is wrong. In such case a war would be preferrable and the target nation should be sitting ducks.
How the states were built up will be taken into consideration when a suicider report is filed. If the target did have a stupid state setup then he/she got suicided on that might make things a way different. In most such cases no action will be taken by me and a war or negotiations *should* take place between the two nations affected.

Next thing that has been changed is the attacks. Only SA and AA will be allowed outside war. AR, GE and KE will be limited for war usage.

Land dropping will be active in wars only. If someone landdrop a person outside a war it will not make a difference on the gb land protection.

Thats it for this time, I hope you enjoy the changes. If not go to the forums and let everyone know what you think.
The disorder scores will still be stored in the scores database, they will not disappear.

By Svenneman

[Grendel Khan]

hmmm, perhaps a few problems could be adjusted with the same "fix".


Time to kick ideas in gear and hand them to the development team.

[Mahdi]

meh... dev team is about as effective as the weed they are smoking... which is most likely dirt weed (poor quality)

:P

[Grendel Khan]

Well, the only answer then is to complain and be powerless to do anything, while wallowing in self-pity and negativity.

Can't say I'm down for that route.

Any and all changes normally are going to take a large amount of time, and trial to both get implemented, and get to actually perform the desired affect.

What I am thinking of, should kill at least two birds with one stone. And two of the biggest albatrosses that have always plagued the game in any and all of it's permutations and presentations.

I would hope that change would be embraced instead of wallow.

[Mr President]

meh... dev team is about as effective as the weed they are smoking... which is most likely dirt weed (poor quality)

:P


I assume your speaking about the old Dev team? Cause the new one is still in early stages and we can't really judge them yet.

[Mahdi]

wait we have a new dev team?

[Mr President]

Yes..


As for my post... It is an option. But if we did that, there would have to be clear evidence that it was a suicide...

[Calvin74]

like i said before
you walk a very fine line and would have to check each situation and you would be better off having a group that no one knows who it is so they can't be influenced

like what was done to tnova was that a suicide or a legit war?(he was hit for no reason by a much larger tag and they have yet to have a logical explanation other than their leaders suck and have no backbone to tell their players to not be little punks)
what was done to me was that a suicide or a war (i left myself open but was suicided on most likely by a multie due to the fact that he deleted right after killing me and they had no reason what so ever to hit me and it wasn't to make a name for themselves if they deleted:P)