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Hoebawt
04-29-2008, 00:39
Hoebawt has been removed from the dev team!!!!

Yes ladies and gents, Its true Hoebawt spoke out on the machine and its off with his head.....

Is this action fair and just? or is there more to it... Is this the cause of a unfriendly relationship with the admin? Does this mean to be part of the staff in this game u must suck up and get along with the higher powers? Im sure it doesn't hurt.... but is it the only way to stay in a position to help the game? It might seem so.

Now must of you by now are wondering what the hell did hoebawt do and what the hell is he whinning aobut... but here it is

http://forums.nation-wars.com/showthread.php?t=1990&page=2

if u look over the thread... you will see im not the only one posting about not posting state numbers... but i was the only one told to "chill"... even tho i was just joking..... Ofcourse it didnt end there... i had to comment on this post which i was told to "chill"....Sorry you cant see the real post coz it was edited and then deleted but heres wat i said....


Quote:
Originally Posted by nosejam View Post
Sarcasm is lost on some people


Tell me about it ****......


RELAX BB

and great how some rules have double standards

and u have the same state number as last set BB so the rule should apply "your a admin u should know this"

As you can see i italicized and underlined a part of my post... see this part of my post was seen as something that should be removed and warned coz i talked about a admin...now i honeslty dont think this was something bad or even rude to post... but yet it was removed... seems u cant speak out on the staff or else u get a warning......

Once my post was edited i thought it wasnt fair so i changed my post to this....

"and great how some rules have double standards.....

and u have the same state number as last set BB so the rule should apply (and u call urself a admin)


Edited Post Notification

Hoe took out the thing about the admin, no points or anything added just try not to question authority out in public, we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together

to sean wat are you head of the Gestapo?

my ideas and theory's wont be suppressed any longer "




Now here is where it gets fun.... See after my warning and a previous event which i wont bring up but im sure Mr P and BB know wat im talking about....

I felt me asking Sean if he was the head of the Gestapo was a good question seeing as how my post was edited coz i spoke out on a admin.. didnt disrespect or say anything vulgar just pointed out something the admin should know or atleat think they should know.... I also posted the clip of the warning so ppl reading the topic know wat i was referring to and didnt ask tons of questions of why i was referring to Sean as the ehad of the Gestapo....

Now do you The community think this was fair? that the Undermining of the Mod is such a horrible and disrespectful offense that deserves a member to be removed from his position in the dev team?

Or is this punishment to harsh for a crime if a crime was even committed?

Plz mods and Admins don't close this thread let it be lets see wat the community thinks

pron
04-29-2008, 00:43
Should have mod's who can take a personal attack once in awhile. I'm not sure that we should start having moralistic conversations about how to post on the forums (aside from language). Content should not be banned just because it is about an admin.

Disorder
04-29-2008, 00:47
Mods should be able to take personal attacks, as well as give them, behind closed doors.

Cemetary
04-29-2008, 00:47
well we never said this was a democratic society :blushing:

but i do believe that was a bit harsh to remove you from our beloved dev team

Divine Intervention
04-29-2008, 00:49
how your "undermining" a mod leads to your removal from development group i fail to see.
It has nothing to do with the valuable contribution you give as one of the oldest players around with huge amounts of experience.

terrible decision imo but ah well.

Disorder
04-29-2008, 00:52
how your "undermining" a mod leads to your removal from development group i fail to see.
It has nothing to do with the valuable contribution you give as one of the oldest players around with huge amounts of experience.

terrible decision imo but ah well.



agreed

pcgluva
04-29-2008, 00:56
i in no means wanted you removed from the dev team nor did i ask for it to be done, i edit your post, one of our rules is to not bash mods/admins in public, If you have a problemw ith another mod/NW staff then it is not to be drug up in public. and we are to discuss it on the mod lounge, all i did was take out the part about your an admin, the rest of the post was left, i sent you the notification so u just didnt think i screwd with your post so DO NOT bash me from your removal on the dev team, if you dont like it apeal to mr president, i have no part what so ever with that

Hoebawt
04-29-2008, 00:59
Sean sean sean... im not passing blame on to u.... all u did was issue a warning for somethign that maybe some of us will see fair and others unfair.... The removal was done by BB....

But since u brought it up... where did i bash anyone... all i said as a admin u should know htis.... is that bashing? i dont think so

pcgluva
04-29-2008, 01:01
my actions was more on the base of questioning athority / actions, i dont know, i honestly didnt think it was a personal shot at bb but i have to do my job, i thought that it mght have caused bigger problems,and a problem with a mod/admin/staff should not be debated in public

Max Logan
04-29-2008, 01:04
welcome to the real life. its always a game of 1 or few ;)

Hoebawt
04-29-2008, 01:05
my actions was more on the base of questioning athority / actions, i dont know, i honestly didnt think it was a personal shot at bb but i have to do my job, i thought that it mght have caused bigger problems,and a problem with a mod/admin/staff should not be debated in public


So we cant question the authority or better yet The knowledge known about the game of a admin? i didnt see a problem wit any part of my post... yet ur not sure why u did it... as i highlighted where u stated this..... u just knew since it was about a admin that it had to be taken out... Since when does being a admin save you from criticism of any sort... wat else does it save u from?

Max Logan
04-29-2008, 01:07
theres a term that fits pcgluva lol

pcgluva
04-29-2008, 01:07
im not proclaming u get special rights, but we are directed as staff to not question eachothers athority in person, i thought it applied to all staff members, if not im sorry, i stand behind me editing of your post

what is that silver?

Max Logan
04-29-2008, 01:09
i don`t swear. sorry ;)

Hoebawt
04-29-2008, 01:10
thats good that u stand behind ur post... we def dont need mods second guessing their actions... even if they obviously wrong.... But as a formal member of the dev team i dindt know we part of the any staff.... we only gave our feedback and ideas/info... to Mr p or dirk at times.... we didnt and dont have access to the mod fourm.. where all the real Staff is at.... and ive been told that a dev member isnt anything special... does this mean certain parts of the so called staff isnt special or that we arent special enough to be part of this so called staff?

pron
04-29-2008, 01:10
my actions was more on the base of questioning athority / actions, i dont know, i honestly didnt think it was a personal shot at bb but i have to do my job, i thought that it mght have caused bigger problems,and a problem with a mod/admin/staff should not be debated in public

I question this.

pcgluva
04-29-2008, 01:16
well then i had thought wrong hoe i thought that u guys were staff, personally i consider any member that is not a normal nember or perm a staff member but i guess not and for that mistake i appoligize

Tnova
04-29-2008, 01:17
I fail to see the major drama here. There isn't much to the Dev group anyway. If your previous infraction wasn't clear, this post certainly erases all doubt.

It isn't how i would have handled it, but to each their own :) People are too wound up over little things, less drama in the world, the better ;)

Hoebawt
04-29-2008, 01:19
well then i had thought wrong hoe i thought that u guys were staff, personally i consider any member that is not a normal nember or perm a staff member but i guess not and for that mistake i appoligize

Sean no need to apologize....

Hoebawt
04-29-2008, 01:20
I fail to see the major drama here. There isn't much to the Dev group anyway. If your previous infraction wasn't clear, this post certainly erases all doubt.

It isn't how i would have handled it, but to each their own :) People are too wound up over little things, less drama in the world, the better ;)


My previous infraction was a convo i had on MSN....... thats how far the claws of the gestapo reach... HAHAHAHA

pron
04-29-2008, 01:22
I fail to see the major drama here. There isn't much to the Dev group anyway. If your previous infraction wasn't clear, this post certainly erases all doubt.

It isn't how i would have handled it, but to each their own :) People are too wound up over little things, less drama in the world, the better ;)

Yea, you're right Tnova. People shouldn't care about making a game better, and they certainly shouldn't care about being removed from commitment to a game over a small infraction. Course, if we were all like that, we'd probably just be here to play the game, and not stick around during down times to work with the community on making the game better.

But you must be right Tnova--don't get wound up over little things.

Tnova
04-29-2008, 01:42
All this could have been cleared up with a little pow wow. People are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Airing dirty laundry of differences between "committed" people is exactly what we are trying to avoid.

Norrisville
04-29-2008, 01:44
I agree that the community should have a little knowledge of this "staff" that keeps this forum running so well. If a member is removed, the community should have the right to know why. But hoe, im not sure if you had to display everything that happened as if it were a court case. it's almost as if you're showing them up ( at least that's how i took it at first, i apologize if that's not your intention). I do agree with you, though, this was no reason for you to be removed.
Nevertheless, if there's one thing that needs to be improved, it's how the mods handled this.. Hoe brought up a valid point in the forum, and sure he used some unneeded sarcasm, but so what? all i see is sarcasm nowadays :P and sarcasm is my middle name.
as nosejam said in that thread in question, " sarcasm is lost in some people"

learn to take a joke, and this all could have been avoided...

ps im not knocking anyone, as you guys are doing a fantastic job... just showing my opinion as requested by hoe.

pron
04-29-2008, 01:46
All this could have been cleared up with a little pow wow. People are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Airing dirty laundry of differences between "committed" people is exactly what we are trying to avoid.

Since when did getting kicked off the dev team become a mole hill?

But I suppose if Tnova says it's a small thing, it must be a small thing to everyone.

Norrisville
04-29-2008, 01:51
This message has been deleted by Dogma

that's the word i was lookin for! dogma ftw

northbabylon
04-29-2008, 01:55
In my oppinion, I think this was blown out of proportion. Like a lot of things that has happened here. I think the best choice was for hoe to talk to BB about it personally and not bring it up here first. Now, i am not sure if hoe did or not. But i do not think hoe should have been removed from his dev. position. If anything, the admins should have talked to hoe before his removal.

on the mod/admin bashing note- i think you should be able to bash mods/admins. Just to a certain extent as well as you can with other members. How often do we make fun of hoe, or pres, or anton even. Now i am not saying, every post should be bashing on a member. Whether your admin/mod/president/priest or w/e you should not be excluded from bashing from other members. Bashing, making fun of, is what makes these forums fun and exciting.

Mahdi
04-29-2008, 06:42
see if people dont speak out then these things go unnoticed by the community as a whole and the mods and admins realize this and they become the gestapo... trust me i have seen it done many times... It is the normal members RIGHT and obligation to speak out against the mods in public so what happens can be said and done on record instead of in private where an admin can say that someone said something they didnt say and bam its an uneven battlefield

For this i am in Favor of Hoebawt

jeff_capes
04-29-2008, 07:01
Lol, anyone can see he was joking in the first post about state numbers.
But then (somehow) made a valid point, correct me if i'm wrong but if you have a prem account you keep you state number EVERY set. So if the rule is not to post state numbers then this should be the case during the round and after that round because a state will STILL have the same number in the next round. Therefore althought joking Hoe has pointing out an error with the rule.
For that well done. :dblthumbup::laugh:

Morph
04-29-2008, 08:07
Hoebawt has been removed from the dev team!!!!

Yes ladies and gents, Its true Hoebawt spoke out on the machine and its off with his head.....

Is this action fair and just? or is there more to it... Is this the cause of a unfriendly relationship with the admin? Does this mean to be part of the staff in this game u must suck up and get along with the higher powers? Im sure it doesn't hurt.... but is it the only way to stay in a position to help the game? It might seem so.

Now must of you by now are wondering what the hell did hoebawt do and what the hell is he whinning aobut... but here it is

http://forums.nation-wars.com/showthread.php?t=1990&page=2

if u look over the thread... you will see im not the only one posting about not posting state numbers... but i was the only one told to "chill"... even tho i was just joking..... Ofcourse it didnt end there... i had to comment on this post which i was told to "chill"....Sorry you cant see the real post coz it was edited and then deleted but heres wat i said....


Quote:
Originally Posted by nosejam View Post
Sarcasm is lost on some people


Tell me about it ****......


RELAX BB

and great how some rules have double standards

and u have the same state number as last set BB so the rule should apply "your a admin u should know this"

As you can see i italicized and underlined a part of my post... see this part of my post was seen as something that should be removed and warned coz i talked about a admin...now i honeslty dont think this was something bad or even rude to post... but yet it was removed... seems u cant speak out on the staff or else u get a warning......

Once my post was edited i thought it wasnt fair so i changed my post to this....

"and great how some rules have double standards.....

and u have the same state number as last set BB so the rule should apply (and u call urself a admin)


Edited Post Notification

Hoe took out the thing about the admin, no points or anything added just try not to question authority out in public, we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together

to sean wat are you head of the Gestapo?

my ideas and theory's wont be suppressed any longer "




Now here is where it gets fun.... See after my warning and a previous event which i wont bring up but im sure Mr P and BB know wat im talking about....

I felt me asking Sean if he was the head of the Gestapo was a good question seeing as how my post was edited coz i spoke out on a admin.. didnt disrespect or say anything vulgar just pointed out something the admin should know or atleat think they should know.... I also posted the clip of the warning so ppl reading the topic know wat i was referring to and didnt ask tons of questions of why i was referring to Sean as the ehad of the Gestapo....

Now do you The community think this was fair? that the Undermining of the Mod is such a horrible and disrespectful offense that deserves a member to be removed from his position in the dev team?

Or is this punishment to harsh for a crime if a crime was even committed?

Plz mods and Admins don't close this thread let it be lets see wat the community thinks


you shouldnt be talking about the gestapo before you really know what they did...

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 09:25
Sorry you got removed, I am a little upset about it. Then again you most likely sealed your fate by taking it one, two, and maybe even three steps further then it should have gone.

Missionary
04-29-2008, 09:35
Nevertheless, if there's one thing that needs to be improved, it's how the mods handled this..

think this was already said but neways, this decision has nothing to do with the mods. we do not have the power to remove people from groups within the forums. just to delete all hoes posts :P lol

on the subject of mod/admin bashin, i dont mind it. you all can (and do) bash me :P. except hoe, after he complained about a post i made about him those privilages have been removed lol.

plus im sure this wasnt the main reason you were removed hoe. maybe they realised what a bad mistake they made in the 1st place haha.

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 09:39
That wasnt nice Mish.

But he is right about the removal thing. Not one mod had anything to do with it. This was the decision made at the Admin level. It is between Hoe and the Admins, none of us are involved, nor did we do anything that would get Hoe removed.

This is a new way that the Mods are doing things. All we are doing is reading the threads, editing posts when need be, and occationally giving a warning. We dont make decisions about who stays and who goes in the community or the "staff".

I think we have a pretty low key laid back Mod staff. We are given simple guidelines of conduct and we just follow what we are told to do. I personally have not seen one instance or comment made by a MOD that would indicate he is better than a member of the community. I really like the way things are set up in this instance. It has been alot worse, and alot more aggressive in the past. BTW you can bash me all you want, in a game related way, its part of the game. Your not hurting my feelings you only poking fun at my Nation Wars Character.

Cape
04-29-2008, 10:15
I'd hoped when we left the old administration behind we left the BS that went with it. The reasons for removing Hoebawt seem made up to me, as if they we're looking for a reason to dump him and just went with this. I suggest the Adimins grow a pair and get a thicker skin, otherwise they'll just end up destroying the community there trying to develop for crap reasons. The best administrations stay in the background and steer people in the right way instead of throwing down the hammer for each tiny thing. Hoebawt is a leader in the community, he even stayed with the game when most everyone else left, what was done to him is a slap in the face to one of the most loyal players in the game. That's my opinion.

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 10:41
Im telling you no mod had anything to do with this. We are just learning about it as you are.

Cape
04-29-2008, 11:03
Im telling you no mod had anything to do with this. We are just learning about it as you are.

If you re-read my post I used the word mods once and not in relation to Hoe. To make you and Andy happy I've removed that one word, enjoy :p Now relax and have a coffee :thumbup:

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 11:05
the statement about mods is true..they only do their job. i have not seem rampant editing or warnings given. we seem to govern ourselves pretty keenly. as to the mod huddle, i dont know about the Dev team, however, the bookies have to access to their lounge either so there would be no way to discuss this in a private forum.

Hoe u and i have our differences, however, we usually stay pretty cool with each other and i will say this...I agree this is wrong. as much as i hate to say anything bad against a fellow member of my nation, this forum is NOT THE USA and i must say i have had dealings with BB as well and i personally dont think she has a thick enough skin or the ability to let things slide off of her enough to have her in the position she is in now. anyone can bash me about my ingame play or forum post in a playful way and i will laugh and continue to play back. in fact MOST EVERY member here is the same. it seems as if tho BB is .....be careful dont upset her she is gonna get mad blah blah blah....hoe i am behind u 100% and i am sorry u have been thrown out on your huge, dimpled wetback *** from the dev team. LMAO. much love brother

Disorder
04-29-2008, 11:37
Its obvious there was a problem with admins and mods in WOW... I hope it does not carry over here as bad as it was there.

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 11:44
Its obvious there was a problem with admins and mods in WOW... I hope it does not carry over here as bad as it was there.

there is no mod issue

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 11:50
there is no mod issue

I think he was referring to World of War, not Nation Wars.

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 11:54
methinks u are correct. i just wanted him to know that the mod issue from WOW is not here. the mods have, for the most part, been doing a great job. cept Vinnie of course. i dont know who made him a mod....:P

ooga booga
04-29-2008, 12:15
There are always two sides to every story. I have just read this thread and seen Hoe's side, now I'm interested to see what an Admin has to say on the subject. :) Then and only then will I form a final opinion. From Hoe's viewpoint and thus the story so far, it doesn't seem like he has done anything wrong. The post about "stop posting state numbers" was the 3rd post in the thread saying that, and he followed it by 3 smiley faces, to me an indicator he was joking around in the first place. Then his comment he made about BB was hardly bashing (a mere poke) but the mod had the right to edit it since that is their job. To me I don't see this small little incident being the removal of the Dev Team, I would bet there is a bigger picture or more incidents we are unaware of. And that is why before people pick sides it's good to hear both sides of the story. :)

Guy77
04-29-2008, 12:38
So far there has been alot of discussion on this thread, so i guess i am going to put in my two cents and see where it goes

I agree w/ ranger when he says there is no mod problem. ( don't really think this is the topic, but it ended up being discussed) The mods have seemed pretty fair, and are alright guys ( except vinnie =P )

I think that if there is a problem w/ a mod / admin that is should be taken care of via PM w/ the Global Mods or whoever is suppose to handle that sort of thing ( I believe BB is? and i guess Mr. P if you have a problem w/ bb? dunno tho) 9 times outta 10 you end up making your self look silly when you do it publicly ( RAF lol) Hoe posting this does not make him look silly, and i think at times it does need to be discussed publicly on the forums
As for Hoe being removed from the dev team, oh well. Get over it hoe. If you did something to piss off BB or whoever, then its your problem. The tos says no "bashig" of the admins/mods. And you know that "bashing" is defined by them, and their say is final. So i think this thread is a little pointless, but hey, i do love debate.

Hey, does this mean there is a dev spot open? lol

Mr President
04-29-2008, 12:45
Interesting little saga we have here.

BB runs the forums. She is the one who decides who is who. The only time i ever get involved is when A) Someone needs to be banned B) personal issues have come into play when making a decision C) Things are just so out of control someone else needs to look into things.

I'm not sure about the conversations between BB and Hoe. I have yet to catch up on everything that was said.

But i'm confused here a little. Last month i brought up an idea that allowed the whole community a chance at having a say in how things were ran. But it was shot down. Actually i don't think 1 person agreed with me. YOU ALL said no lets keep it the way it is. And now, your all complaining cause of the way it is..

The rules are clear. These kinds of issues are to be handled privately. Not for public display. This thread is nothing more then a feel sorry for me thread. Someone doesn't like a decision made so they make a post here to try and rally everyone else up in there favor. This ticks me off more then anything!

Seeing you want to make everything public in this case, then there is no need for me to keep my say private.

Hoe all you did was make a mockery of this whole thing starting back in the state # post. You of all people know you should not post what a mod has said to you. Warnings are sent in a [PM] PRIVATE MESSAGE for a reason. If it was meant for public eyes then it wouldn't be a "private message" would it?

For months now i have sat back and read posts made between you and another member who constantly push the limits. But i haven't said anything.
When it got to far out of hand i simply edited it. You were a member of the Dev team, someone who was suppose to be setting an example but instead you wrote your own rule book and did as you wanted. You know the rules clear as day, but yet last set i had to send you a message to remove the F word off a title of one of your members. When in fact, it never should have been there to begin with. A new member who doesn't know any better, fine i can handle that, but someone who has been here for so long?

This whole thread is the stupid **** i can't stand. If you had a problem with BB's decision then you come to me about it. Not the whole community. The only reason you did this was to make BB and the rest of us look stupid. And
now you have everyone feeling sorry for you, but yet they don't know everything. You point just one thing out and say this is why you were let go and then they think we are being mean and picking on you. Didn't you get a warning a while back clearly stating if you pulled stuff like that again you wouldn't be a part of the Dev Team? Where was that mentioned?

The fact that you bashed BB is not the case. Of course that was nothing serious, we all bash from time to time.. What you did was, took sean's warning and laughed at him and ignored it. You then went and RE-POSTED the same post, but this time added what Sean's warning said and again laughed at him. Then you have the balls to turn it around and make it look like Sean owes you an apology?

FIRST, As a member of the Dev Team you should know the difference between a warning and a edited post notification. Sean sent you a EPN not a warning. So you should have left it at that, or if you disagreed with it you should have went to BB to talk about it. Not go by your own rules and say well hey i'm hoe so i will do what i want and they will deal with it.

Funny thing is, as soon as i saw Sean's EPN report, i told him he didn't need to issue these anymore and simply just edit the posts and then i was going to remove it from you and explain why i did.. But then i log on and see what you did.. So you tell me, who really has shown the disrespect here? The rules are set in place for a reason. If you don't like them then simply work with me on changing them. Don't go off and ignore the ones you don't like.

And to finish this book i'm writting, the dev team is dead. Has been dead for a long time now. Only time anything is posted in there is if i post it. And yes i have talked about dropping it for some time now, then i decided i would leave it but there is still no new posts. Yes i said i was taking a break, but that doesn't mean you still can't post ideas or things you feel needs working on. And in the old NWII game, same thing.. nobody posted. And that game had so much potential that the dev section should have had more posts then any other section. But it didn't. Calvin even tried getting things going in there for me, and he had the same issues.. So don't make this into such a huge deal like the Dev Team is the foundation of this game and you have been unjustly pulled out of it. What the Dev Team truely is right now is about 4 people with a colored name.

So to me this all seems like your upset cause you lost your colored name. All of this over a stupid colored name?

So go on and continue your rantings about how unfair all this is and continue getting member support. And when your done making everything public then feel free to talk to me in private. But let me give you a heads up, i wouldn't take my discussions public.

Sorry if you don't like what i had to say here, but seeing you took this whole issue public i felt that more information needed to be told too.. Not just your side.. And this is just what i had to say about it, i haven't even talked to BB on here side yet.. But it bugs me when people who claim to do all they can for the game and then break the rules that they clearly know when something happens they don't like..

Bottom line, you should have came to me before even saying a word.. Cause now i really have no sympathy for you.

Dogma
04-29-2008, 13:17
If that doesn't clear it, your eyes are closed.

pron
04-29-2008, 13:27
You make some good points Pres, but I still have a few unanswered questions.

1. If you're supposed to be consulted whenever "A) Someone needs to be banned B) personal issues have come into play when making a decision C) Things are just so out of control someone else needs to look into things." It seems like this might be one of those times, but it also looks like BB circumvented A on you, and is possibly B with this. As far as C goes, I'm thinking that someone else did need to look into this. The fact that you posted w/o talking to BB tells me you're assuming much about this situation--not that I'm not doing the same :blushing:

2. "But i'm confused here a little. Last month i brought up an idea that allowed the whole community a chance at having a say in how things were ran. But it was shot down. Actually i don't think 1 person agreed with me. YOU ALL said no lets keep it the way it is. And now, your all complaining cause of the way it is.. "
The reason I voted against this was because it would've been chaos. Now, things are good for the most part, but I think that Admin/Mod "bashing" needs to be looked at, especially when Hoe got edited for such a stupid reason.

3. "The rules are clear. These kinds of issues are to be handled privately." Haven't Hoe and BB been talkign privately about these things for the past two months--seems it came to a head recently. I think it's within Hoe's rights to post in the community to see if he's offbase in the way he's thinking. He even alluded to a previous episode where it was handled privately--see his first post.

4. "yet last set i had to send you a message to remove the F word off a title of one of your members" Since when are leaders responsible for their followers state names????

5. "You of all people know you should not post what a mod has said to you." I would contest this, especially in light of the fact that it's all behind the scenes, and the mod editing the post was for a very silly reason. Maybe we should change the policy of the admin/mod bashing so that people won't get edited for sarcastic remarks that are obviously not to be taken seriously.

6. "You point just one thing out and say this is why you were let go and then they think we are being mean and picking on you. Didn't you get a warning a while back clearly stating if you pulled stuff like that again you wouldn't be a part of the Dev Team? Where was that mentioned?"

Hoe's original message--"a previous event which i wont bring up but im sure Mr P and BB know wat im talking about

Regardless of whether it was discussed or not before, it's silly that Hoe loses devo team because of BB overreacting to Hoe's overreaction of Sean's overreaction. The whole post notification reason was ridiculous.

7. "What you did was, took sean's warning and laughed at him and ignored it." That's because it was a stupid warning and should be looked at whether or not it should even be a reason to edit a post. "we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together" What kind of reasoning is that????

8. "FIRST, As a member of the Dev Team you should know the difference between a warning and a edited post notification." See quote from #7 where you called it a warning--seems we all make mistakes when categorizing PM's.

9. "And to finish this book i'm writting, the dev team is dead." This is probably a topic for another thread, as I do see a need for a dev team (although from the sounds of it, one that is more active). However, you can't use this as a reason to lessen the blow because only Hoe lost his dev team status. Was anyone else kicked out, or was it just Hoe singled out? I'm sure it doesn't make Hoe feel any better.

10. "But it bugs me when people who claim to do all they can for the game and then break the rules that they clearly know when something happens they don't like"
It would bug me too if people break the rules when they clearly know them, however, it's every community members right to challenge the rules in ways that will get noticed by others. MLK didn't have black people sitting in the front of the bus or in the restaurants just so he could break a rule--he did it so people would know the rule is stupid and should be changed.

11. THE ONLY REASON I'M POSTING SO MUCH IS I WANT THIS WHOLE ADMIN/MOD BASHING RULE LOOKED AT. It seems like if the rule wasn't so silly, then Hoe wouldn't have been edited, and then he wouldn't have reposted in rage, and then BB wouldn't have kicked him off the now worthless Dev team. Seems like the rule should be changed.

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 13:29
LOL well said Mr P. I knew this was coming.

Just make sure you guys know that this was not a Mod thing. It was between the Admin and a Member, and the Mods had nothing to do with it at all.

There has got to be more to this story than what meets the eye.

pron
04-29-2008, 13:30
If that doesn't clear it, your eyes are closed.

:sleep: My eyes be closed. :sleep:

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 13:37
Pron you have to understand that Hoe acted out of line by messing with Sean. The Admins, Mods, Dev, and Bookies are a team here. We have a team leader which is BB. If Hoe had a problem with PCgluva, then he should have brought it up to BB, not the community.

Further more this is something that he agreed to do ahead of time in order to be apart of the team. I guess he forgot about it or something?

pron
04-29-2008, 13:40
LOL well said Mr P. I knew this was coming.

Just make sure you guys know that this was not a Mod thing. It was between the Admin and a Member, and the Mods had nothing to do with it at all.

There has got to be more to this story than what meets the eye.

As mods, don't you have discretionary powers to say what is and what is not bashing? And don't you have capacities to discern when a rule is right and when a rule is wrong?

There was a mod who edited the post and who stated it was because "we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together". Does that make any sense to anyone else? I could see it if there was a lot of chaos and personal remarks, but a harmless sarcastic bash with plenty of smiley faces afterwards is no reason for a post edit.

None of this would've happened if that rule wasn't so stringently followed and/or if the mod would've used discretion. Hoe needed discretion too--but he's not the only person in the wrong here.

pron
04-29-2008, 13:42
Pron you have to understand that Hoe acted out of line by messing with Sean. The Admins, Mods, Dev, and Bookies are a team here. We have a team leader which is BB. If Hoe had a problem with PCgluva, then he should have brought it up to BB, not the community.

Further more this is something that he agreed to do ahead of time in order to be apart of the team. I guess he forgot about it or something?

And you'd follow a rule if it doesn't make sense? He may have acted out of line--but he had GOOD REASON TO--and behind the scenes, Hoe and BB don't work well together lol.

Max Logan
04-29-2008, 13:43
Basiclly its what Mr P. said. When I was removed from another game I didn`t make a ruckus, just mailed the admins and said what I think about their f.u. acting and biased choices (not connected to NW in any way), and even though I knew whom I had to 'thank' for it.

But you should just accept the fact - someone up there (not that high), doesn`t like you. Its all subjective :p

Missionary
04-29-2008, 14:00
if it makes hoe feel any better when ever i see his forum name i will pretend it is still brown. there problem solved haha

@ guy and ranger - seems some of your posts may go accidentally missing in my sections :P

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 14:37
see, thats what i mean. Vin had fun back. technically i bashed a mod...and had what hoe posted been directed at ANYONE else but who it was directed at, there would be no thread to post in about it. i think that is the core issue

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 15:10
I here you, but BB is the most powerful member of the forums besides the owner Mr P. If you dont mess with the bull you wont get the horns. Seeing how Hoe and some of us other members have tasted the horns once or twice, he should have just bitten his tounge.

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 15:11
in theory your statement makes sense, however how long must members walk on eggshells in order to temper the rage of the bull?

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 15:21
My opinion of BB is DONT mess with her. By now most of us know a bit about each other, and you all know you can mess with me alot, and some of the other members, but hey we dont all have the same tolerences.

Personally when I talk to BB, it strickly business. In life there is allways someone that you have to walk on egg shells around. In most cases its the ones who write your checks.

On the other hand, I dont think it was that single post which was edited to exclude her name that was the reason for his removal. I think it was the repost, other remarks and eventually this thread that is all part of the situation.

But you know what I dont know. I dont think any Mod knows why it happened for sure, nor are we to change it. BB is not an unfair person. She may get upset, but usually doenst fly off the handle. So who really knows why she did what she did. the only person that can tell us is her.

Mr President
04-29-2008, 15:27
You make some good points Pres, but I still have a few unanswered questions.

1 It seems like this might be one of those times, but it also looks like BB circumvented A on you, and is possibly B with this. As far as C goes, I'm thinking that someone else did need to look into this. The fact that you posted w/o talking to BB tells me you're assuming much about this situation--not that I'm not doing the same :blushing:


Nobody was banned so i didn't need in on this. If hoe thought it was a personal attack from BB then he should have come to me about it instead of making this stupid post.


2. The reason I voted against this was because it would've been chaos. Now, things are good for the most part, but I think that Admin/Mod "bashing" needs to be looked at, especially when Hoe got edited for such a stupid reason.

at the time, sean didn't feel is was a stupid reason. if hoe thought it was a stupid reason then he should have went to BB or myself instead of making this stupid post.

3. Haven't Hoe and BB been talkign privately about these things for the past two months--seems it came to a head recently. I think it's within Hoe's rights to post in the community to see if he's offbase in the way he's thinking. He even alluded to a previous episode where it was handled privately--see his first post.

If hoe was having issues with BB then he should have came to me instead of making this stupid post.

4. Since when are leaders responsible for their followers state names????

Last time i checked it was the leaders of a nation who sets the titles of there members.

5. I would contest this, especially in light of the fact that it's all behind the scenes, and the mod editing the post was for a very silly reason. Maybe we should change the policy of the admin/mod bashing so that people won't get edited for sarcastic remarks that are obviously not to be taken seriously.

If hoe feels the rules need to be changed then he needs to come to me instead of making this stupid post.

6. Hoe's original message--"a previous event which i wont bring up but im sure Mr P and BB know wat im talking about
Regardless of whether it was discussed or not before, it's silly that Hoe loses devo team because of BB overreacting to Hoe's overreaction of Sean's overreaction. The whole post notification reason was ridiculous.

Hoe did not lose his position cause of what he said about BB. Hoe lost it cause his post was removed and he then went back and re posted it completely ignoring what sean had said to him. If he had an issue with what sean did, then he should have went to me or BB instead of making that stupid post.

7. "What you did was, took sean's warning and laughed at him and ignored it." That's because it was a stupid warning and should be looked at whether or not it should even be a reason to edit a post. "we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together" What kind of reasoning is that????

Whether you feel it was stupid or not, it's not your call. Hoe should have went to me or BB instead of making this stupid post.

8. "FIRST, As a member of the Dev Team you should know the difference between a warning and a edited post notification." See quote from #7 where you called it a warning--seems we all make mistakes when categorizing PM's.

no comment

9. "And to finish this book i'm writting, the dev team is dead." This is probably a topic for another thread, as I do see a need for a dev team (although from the sounds of it, one that is more active). However, you can't use this as a reason to lessen the blow because only Hoe lost his dev team status. Was anyone else kicked out, or was it just Hoe singled out? I'm sure it doesn't make Hoe feel any better.

no public comment about this.


10. It would bug me too if people break the rules when they clearly know them, however, it's every community members right to challenge the rules in ways that will get noticed by others. MLK didn't have black people sitting in the front of the bus or in the restaurants just so he could break a rule--he did it so people would know the rule is stupid and should be changed.

for the record i think i have been more then fair and open about all rules and everything else in this game. I am constantly seeking others opinions on just about every matter. I have said many times that nothing is set in stone and i'm always open to change if needed.. If i ignored people and suggestions then i would be more understanding of this stupid post, but i don't. I listen and i am eager to change things if needed.. But there was no attempt to change anything here. Bottom line is hoe didn't like the way a rule was, so instead of working with me to change it, he just made his own rules up.

11. THE ONLY REASON I'M POSTING SO MUCH IS I WANT THIS WHOLE ADMIN/MOD BASHING RULE LOOKED AT. It seems like if the rule wasn't so silly, then Hoe wouldn't have been edited, and then he wouldn't have reposted in rage, and then BB wouldn't have kicked him off the now worthless Dev team. Seems like the rule should be changed.

bottom line is hoe should have went to BB about the EPN. If he felt she wasn't being fair to him then he could have came to me. I can't recall ONE time where i didn't ever listen to anyone and hear them out.

Rules are rules, if you don't like them then work to change them. Speeding is against the law. Do you just keep speeding to prove your point it's a silly law? Of course not, you work with legislators to change the law.. Same thing here. You don't just do as you feel to make a point. You follow the rules till you can get the ones you don't agree with changed.

I respect everyone's opinions in here. I respect the fact that some of these rules may be outdated and need to be changed. BUT, in return, i expect some respect back. And ignoring rules and doing as you wish is not respect.
He is simply trying to attitude his way through it.

Hoe did not lose his position cause he bashed BB. he lost it cause of how he handled the whole situation. All he had to do was sit tight and talk to me about it, but instead he flew off the handle and acted out like a little kid. So am i suppose to just give in everytime someone throws a tantrum?
Sorry it's not going to happen. Not when i have made it clear since day one that i'm always willing to hear people out and give BOTH sides of the story a chance... But when people ignore what i ask, to me that is disrespectful and i don't have any tolerance for that.

If a new person joined up right now and read this thread, i'm sure he would say oh man what a bunch of babies and leave.. Thats why some things need to be handled without a huge public debate.

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 15:33
1 It seems like this might be one of those times, but it also looks like BB circumvented A on you, and is possibly B with this. As far as C goes, I'm thinking that someone else did need to look into this. The fact that you posted w/o talking to BB tells me you're assuming much about this situation--not that I'm not doing the same :blushing:


Nobody was banned so i didn't need in on this. If hoe thought it was a personal attack from BB then he should have come to me about it instead of making this stupid post.


2. The reason I voted against this was because it would've been chaos. Now, things are good for the most part, but I think that Admin/Mod "bashing" needs to be looked at, especially when Hoe got edited for such a stupid reason.

at the time, sean didn't feel is was a stupid reason. if hoe thought it was a stupid reason then he should have went to BB or myself instead of making this stupid post.

3. Haven't Hoe and BB been talkign privately about these things for the past two months--seems it came to a head recently. I think it's within Hoe's rights to post in the community to see if he's offbase in the way he's thinking. He even alluded to a previous episode where it was handled privately--see his first post.

If hoe was having issues with BB then he should have came to me instead of making this stupid post.

4. Since when are leaders responsible for their followers state names????

Last time i checked it was the leaders of a nation who sets the titles of there members.

5. I would contest this, especially in light of the fact that it's all behind the scenes, and the mod editing the post was for a very silly reason. Maybe we should change the policy of the admin/mod bashing so that people won't get edited for sarcastic remarks that are obviously not to be taken seriously.

If hoe feels the rules need to be changed then he needs to come to me instead of making this stupid post.

6. Hoe's original message--"a previous event which i wont bring up but im sure Mr P and BB know wat im talking about
Regardless of whether it was discussed or not before, it's silly that Hoe loses devo team because of BB overreacting to Hoe's overreaction of Sean's overreaction. The whole post notification reason was ridiculous.

Hoe did not lose his position cause of what he said about BB. Hoe lost it cause his post was removed and he then went back and re posted it completely ignoring what sean had said to him. If he had an issue with what sean did, then he should have went to me or BB instead of making that stupid post.

7. "What you did was, took sean's warning and laughed at him and ignored it." That's because it was a stupid warning and should be looked at whether or not it should even be a reason to edit a post. "we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together" What kind of reasoning is that????

Whether you feel it was stupid or not, it's not your call. Hoe should have went to me or BB instead of making this stupid post.

8. "FIRST, As a member of the Dev Team you should know the difference between a warning and a edited post notification." See quote from #7 where you called it a warning--seems we all make mistakes when categorizing PM's.

no comment

9. "And to finish this book i'm writting, the dev team is dead." This is probably a topic for another thread, as I do see a need for a dev team (although from the sounds of it, one that is more active). However, you can't use this as a reason to lessen the blow because only Hoe lost his dev team status. Was anyone else kicked out, or was it just Hoe singled out? I'm sure it doesn't make Hoe feel any better.

no public comment about this.


10. It would bug me too if people break the rules when they clearly know them, however, it's every community members right to challenge the rules in ways that will get noticed by others. MLK didn't have black people sitting in the front of the bus or in the restaurants just so he could break a rule--he did it so people would know the rule is stupid and should be changed.

for the record i think i have been more then fair and open about all rules and everything else in this game. I am constantly seeking others opinions on just about every matter. I have said many times that nothing is set in stone and i'm always open to change if needed.. If i ignored people and suggestions then i would be more understanding of this stupid post, but i don't. I listen and i am eager to change things if needed.. But there was no attempt to change anything here. Bottom line is hoe didn't like the way a rule was, so instead of working with me to change it, he just made his own rules up.

11. THE ONLY REASON I'M POSTING SO MUCH IS I WANT THIS WHOLE ADMIN/MOD BASHING RULE LOOKED AT. It seems like if the rule wasn't so silly, then Hoe wouldn't have been edited, and then he wouldn't have reposted in rage, and then BB wouldn't have kicked him off the now worthless Dev team. Seems like the rule should be changed.

bottom line is hoe should have went to BB about the EPN. If he felt she wasn't being fair to him then he could have came to me. I can't recall ONE time where i didn't ever listen to anyone and hear them out.

Rules are rules, if you don't like them then work to change them. Speeding is against the law. Do you just keep speeding to prove your point it's a silly law? Of course not, you work with legislators to change the law.. Same thing here. You don't just do as you feel to make a point. You follow the rules till you can get the ones you don't agree with changed.

I respect everyone's opinions in here. I respect the fact that some of these rules may be outdated and need to be changed. BUT, in return, i expect some respect back. And ignoring rules and doing as you wish is not respect.
He is simply trying to attitude his way through it.

Hoe did not lose his position cause he bashed BB. he lost it cause of how he handled the whole situation. All he had to do was sit tight and talk to me about it, but instead he flew off the handle and acted out like a little kid. So am i suppose to just give in everytime someone throws a tantrum?
Sorry it's not going to happen. Not when i have made it clear since day one that i'm always willing to hear people out and give BOTH sides of the story a chance... But when people ignore what i ask, to me that is disrespectful and i don't have any tolerance for that.

If a new person joined up right now and read this thread, i'm sure he would say oh man what a bunch of babies and leave.. Thats why some things need to be handled without a huge public debate.

do u think his post was stupid? its hard to read between the lines. LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Mr President
04-29-2008, 15:38
I think the whole thing is stupid.. A complete waste of time actually.. All of this could have been avoided if someone just simply sat tight and worked through it...

Dogma
04-29-2008, 15:42
It is my opinion that this debate needs to be closed. I will not close it though I will let someone higher than me do it. But these arguments should be taken to PM.

Someone is going to get out of line and more things are going to happen.

When it does I will be the first ti say... I told you so.

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 15:46
Once again our wonderful leader couldnt have said it better. Im allways preaching that if you have a problem with any staff member that there is a right and wrong way to get what you want done. Contact BB or Mr P. via PM and they are fair and will listen.

Yah i was gonna close it too, but lets let someone else do it...lol. Its not a mod issue.

pron
04-29-2008, 15:46
I think the whole thing is stupid.. A complete waste of time actually.. All of this could have been avoided if someone just simply sat tight and worked through it...

Didn't Hoe do that about 1 1/2 months ago, and then the same thing happened again? Sometimes the community should be involved, and things should not be left to 2 people making all the decisions.

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 15:51
Pron are you really just argueing for the sake of it. I mean come on didnt the man explain it to you good enough.

Come on explain to us exactly what you didnt like about the situation, and how you would have done it so much better. I mean we dont even know the whole story, and your going to come on here and say one side is absolutely right and one side is absolutely wrong.

Mr P spelled it out to you...

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 15:52
Once again our wonderful leader couldnt have said it better. Im allways preaching that if you have a problem with any staff member that there is a right and wrong way to get what you want done. Contact BB or Mr P. via PM and they are fair and will listen.

Yah i was gonna close it too, but lets let someone else do it...lol. Its not a mod issue.

SMOOOOOCHHHHHHHHHHHHH. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Mr President
04-29-2008, 16:03
Didn't Hoe do that about 1 1/2 months ago, and then the same thing happened again? Sometimes the community should be involved, and things should not be left to 2 people making all the decisions.

2 people making all the decisions? Since when? I CALL THE SHOTS AROUND HERE! lmao jk....

EVERYONE makes the decisions. How many times do i need to say this? The community has just as much input on how things are ran around here as i do.
All i ask is, if you don't agree with something then bring it up in a proper way. Don't come on the forums and whine and complain. Like i said it would be different if i didn't care what anyone had to say, or if i was unwilling to change anything about the game or forums.. But i'm not like that at all. And hoe knows this. Which is why it has ticked me off even more. Trust me, he knows my MSN. He sends them to me all the time. And if i wasn't on
at the exact moment he needed me, then holding his words and tantrum a tad longer would not have hurt him...




SMOOOOOCHHHHHHHHHHHHH. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Leave him alone.. He finds the right spots.. maybe you should learn from him and then you can get out of that bookie office :P

lol jk

ranger2112
04-29-2008, 16:15
lmao. i though shining your shoes and ironing your uniform as VP for so long would have counted for SOMETHING

Mahdi
04-29-2008, 16:21
see what my main problem is is the taking care of disagreements via pm... yeah i understand at times it should go that way but seriously it then becomes a game of he said she said

im gonna use hoe and anton as an example
"Hoe has a problem with something that was said by a mod so he goes to anton... Anton tells him to just let it slide.
It happens again now hoe is furious and goes back to anton. Anton tells him he needs to calm down everythign is fine.
it happens a third time hoe becomes furious but keeps his cool. Anton gets angry from dealing with hoe and bans him temporarily.
When hoe comes back he pitches a fit publicly and bam anton responds with a big post saying that hoe said this and this and that... who does the people believe? Anton because in this made up scenario Anton is higher up and he is looked at as a community leader... when in this story hoe said nothing bad

Hoebawt
04-29-2008, 16:29
I didnt know sarcasm was considered bashing....

and i didnt sit tight and wait for you coz i felt the community should see how things where handled.... And let me clear something up... this isnt a issue wit the mods... i think its a issue wit BB... THe main reason i made this thread was coz i was threanted to receive a ban if i did.... so i went and did it...

I didnt do this to stir a ruckuss or whine about being removed.. thats done wit.. i did this to show everyone that if u dont kiss up to certain ppl u can get taken care of...

this is how it went down... its done wit just watch wa tu say ladies and gents

Mr President
04-29-2008, 16:38
I didnt know sarcasm was considered bashing....

and i didnt sit tight and wait for you coz i felt the community should see how things where handled....

So instead of coming to me first and giving me a chance to get in on and look at the way things are handled, you felt that everyone else should know first.

Not only does that make me look bad, it also makes the forums look bad. I can't change anything unless i know about it.

If you felt BB handled it wrong then out of respect for me, you should have come to me first and given me a chance to look into it.. Last time i checked i have shown respect for you even at our worst times!

MAGGIO
04-29-2008, 17:26
i did this to show everyone that if u dont kiss up to certain ppl u can get taken care of...

this is how it went down... its done wit just watch wa tu say ladies and gents

Funny you said this. This is how life is in almost every situation. You dont do a good job at work so your boss gives you a raise? I can think of so many situations were knowing the right person and a little kissing up got you further advancement.

"its not what you know, its who you know"

Its sad, Im not saying its morally correct, but it certainly is the way it is.

I mean you should have rallied to have her removed from her position if that is what your intension was.

What type of results did you expect from this situation?

Will
04-29-2008, 19:25
I object to the thread title hoebs. the current mods don't qualify as nazimods like in the old days. Not by my standards :P

BB
04-29-2008, 20:34
well then i had thought wrong hoe i thought that u guys were staff, personally i consider any member that is not a normal nember or perm a staff member but i guess not and for that mistake i appoligize

Sean the Dev staff is considered staff and follow under same rules and guidelines as anyone else who holds a title position in these forums

Missionary
04-29-2008, 21:11
Personally when I talk to BB, it strickly business. In life there is allways someone that you have to walk on egg shells around. In most cases its the ones who write your checks.

never really spoken to BB about anything to do with ingame problems or anything. normally just short chats or abit of pokin fun. never seen her be unfair or bias towards anyone, thats why i think there is more to this than what we have seen so far.

btw, anyone else think this should be closed? was going to close it as soon as i saw it but seeing as several mods/globqal mods were posting decided not to lol.


also i think BB's sig should be read by alot of people in this thread.

Max Logan
04-29-2008, 21:40
how come all the staff has become so...lick, in the very last days? the fear is here I guess lol

Not speaking for the oldies though

Mr President
04-29-2008, 21:44
how come all the staff has become so...lick, in the very last days? the fear is here I guess lol

Not speaking for the oldies though


:confused:

can you explain this better.... remember i'm slow and old and need things to be clearer.

Norrisville
04-29-2008, 21:53
i think the community saw what was going on. now this thread should be closed and the parties involved should work it out, then come back to us after everythings clear...

Mr President
04-29-2008, 22:05
now this thread should be closed and the parties involved should work it out, then come back to us after everythings clear...


lmao.. that is funny right there... come back to us lmao...


*roundhouses chuck for thinking such a stupid thought

Minimus
04-29-2008, 22:06
Anything you guys write disagreeing with Hoebawt is completely racist since he's Mexican. So stop it you racist pigs. Stop mexican bashing.

Dogma
04-29-2008, 22:13
What's wrong with Taco?

Minimus
04-29-2008, 22:28
What's wrong with Taco?

freaking racist.

Mahdi
04-29-2008, 23:38
No his name is Bryan Jesus Paco... ask him we talked about it last night

Oh. and most will disagree with me on this but i think since this one has been publicized lets hear all of it... let the community decide what to do with Hoebawt since we have a say in what happens

Max Logan
04-30-2008, 04:33
:confused:

can you explain this better.... remember i'm slow and old and need things to be clearer.

Don`t worry. Not about you or BB

About the younger generation, the greenies :p

Minimus
04-30-2008, 15:10
No his name is Bryan Jesus Paco... ask him we talked about it last night

Oh. and most will disagree with me on this but i think since this one has been publicized lets hear all of it... let the community decide what to do with Hoebawt since we have a say in what happens

Let's have ourselves an old fashion lynching.

DBozMen
05-01-2008, 13:21
Sean the Dev staff is considered staff and follow under same rules and guidelines as anyone else who holds a title position in these forums

I have to respond to this post since those guidlines are not stated in the dev group. I allready made a post about it in the dev group, but i wanted this to be clear.

*on the subject*
It should be close, Hoebawt made his point.