Hey Will...

[jasonlfunk]

You mentioned during our War Chat (which Anton was continuously complaining that we were spamming) that you thought abortion was wrong. I was curious why.

(Plus - these forums our boring right now:) )

[Will]

Well my biggest problem with abortion is that it's used mainly out of convenience rather than necessity. In certain cases it's justified but plenty of times it's used simply to avoid having to raise a baby.

[jasonlfunk]

Well my biggest problem with abortion is that it's used mainly out of convenience rather than necessity. In certain cases it's justified but plenty of times it's used simply to avoid having to raise a baby.

What about that makes it wrong? Why should a girl not just do whatever is most convenient for her?

[Will]

What about that makes it wrong? Why should a girl not just do whatever is most convenient for her?

Why should the life of a baby be worth less than the desires of a girl? if she didn't want a baby she should have abstained.

[jasonlfunk]

Why should the life of a baby be worth less than the desires of a girl? if she didn't want a baby she should have abstained.

And why is the life of the baby worth the same as or more than the girl? Shouldn't she have the right to decide what happens with her own body?

[Shabaz K]

shouldn't she take some responsbility of her body. it's be stupid if she did not know the conseqences(sp)

[Will]

And why is the life of the baby worth the same as or more than the girl? Shouldn't she have the right to decide what happens with her own body?

There are plenty of methods for contraception before you get to abortion. While there is a chance that they will fail in my opinion it's a risk you take. Sex is not simply a form of recreation but a means of reproduction. If you aren't prepared for all the consequences then you shouldn't engage in it.

[jasonlfunk]

What if you are going to college and having a baby is going to mess things up for you. What if she was having the sex to lose some stress. It has been scientifically proven that having sex will not only make you happy, and lose stress but it is also great for your health. Maybe the condom broke. or maybe that .01% (as condoms and birth control only work 99.99% of the time) was this time. I say who cares if a woman wants to have an abortion. I can understand what you mean when you say that stuff about the babies life, but for instance like me, when I was rescuing hostages, or when I was in lifeguard and prison guard training, if you are under attack you will put the enemy, victim, rescuee, or whomever in front of you always, becuase if you die you are SOL (shlt outta luck for those of you who dont know). The same applies here. You need to take care of yourself, before you can try and take care of someone else..

I'm bet you're happy your mom didn't have an abortion....

[jasonlfunk]

There are plenty of methods for contraception before you get to abortion. While there is a chance that they will fail in my opinion it's a risk you take. Sex is not simply a form of recreation but a means of reproduction. If you aren't prepared for all the consequences then you shouldn't engage in it.

That didn't answer my question - why is the baby's life valuable?

[Will]

That didn't answer my question - why is the baby's life valuable?

Well from a purely utilitarian viewpoint a baby is a future worker/soldier, so killing one harms society. Even if he grew up to become a criminal he could still be conscripted, and by killing him you will never know.

From a moral/religious viewpoint you could say that all life is valuable or sacred. Killing is therefore a sin/immoral and should not be tolerated.

[p-kitty]

I think a big point being missed here is that someone said there is a time and a place for an abortion but that some women will abuse this right and will neglect using protection and forms of pregnancy prevention because she could always jst get an abortion. It's a popular theme in today's society to ignore the consequences of their actions and act without thinking. without thinking how that might even affect themselves.

[Will]

Do you like your eggs in the morning? Well, those are chicken babies. Do you like your burger for lunch? Well that was once a cow. Do you like your ham for dinner? well that was once a pig.

I do agree that killing is wrong, but we all do it, day in and day out.

You still aren't grasping the point here that I am trying to make. My point is..Who are we to decide whether or not abortion is right or wrong? Still I am sticking to my comment earlier that abortion is something that a couple will decide together, and if they agree upon then that is there problem, not ours.

You don't know how mad it makes me when I go past the abortion clinic every saturday and I see all those protestors yelling and screaming and holding their signs and stopping traffic in and out of the clinic. You know something, I bet it was hard that that little girl just to even get the nerve to go there, and now she is being bombarded by people who have nothing better to do on a saturday then protest. How about these people do something proactive for their community???

The chicken eggs that we eat are unfertilised and thus will never grow up in any case.

Well if you want to put it that way, then who are we to decide anything is wrong? What right do we have to condemn for example, Saddam Hussein for what he did in power? were we in his shoes when he made the decisions he did?

Besides, if a girl does not feel capable of raising the child then they can always put it up for adoption.

[Xavior]

I think the question here is, when is a baby a baby?

[MAGGIO]

Do you like your eggs in the morning? Well, those are chicken babies. Do you like your burger for lunch? Well that was once a cow. Do you like your ham for dinner? well that was once a pig.

LOL that is about the most immature thing I heard this week. LOL even though we are all "God's" creatures we are not all equal. Unfortunately society even deplics that not all humans have the same "humane" value.

So comparing an unfertilized chicken egg to a living human with a heart beat doenst quite cut it for me.

If you dont want to get pregnant then dont have sex. If you want to have sex and want to try really hard not to get pregnant use protection. If you dont use protection (pulling out doesnt count because pre seminal fluid actually has i higher concentrate of sperm cells than actual ejaculation) and you get pregenant then get rid of it because you dont feel like dealing with it then you should be punished in some form. Hopefully that is were carma comes into play because the law certainly does not in most cases.

BTW i am very pro choice, but no pro abuse.

There are situations that may sound like abuse but maybe are not.

example. you are very young and poor and you will not and cannot even if you try to provide proper health care, nutrition and stability for the child. Your mother and father are dead, or drug addicts etc... In that case the child has a very low chance of a proper survival, and well being. It may be worth looking into getting the situation removed.

example. the old she was raped and got pregnant. that is just not right.

example. you have two or three kids allready and are barely hanging on, and can barely provide for them. having another one could sink the family in debt, poor education and potencially destroy the lives of the children you allready have.

Oh that is right there is adoption or did we forget.

Then on the other hand. I dont see all the right wing religeous fanatics who say that no matter what happens you are a murderer if you get an abortion and you will go to hell.....well i dont see to many of the going out and adopting all the children they can to provide for them do I?

[Mr President]

You don't know how mad it makes me when I go past the abortion clinic every saturday and I see all those protestors yelling and screaming and holding their signs and stopping traffic in and out of the clinic. You know something, I bet it was hard that that little girl just to even get the nerve to go there, and now she is being bombarded by people who have nothing better to do on a saturday then protest. How about these people do something proactive for their community???


lol yea seeing all the abortion clinics being blown up makes me laugh.. Not cause they were bombed, but because these people cry pro life but then kill to prove there point. lmao.. :hammer2:

I feel that this is between a man,woman and there god if they believe in one. I feel that govt has to much control of our lives as it is.

I don't like it when people use abortion as a form of birth control. And i use to feel that women who were raped should not have to birth the child. then i became a rapist.. lmao.. jk.. no but i think it's funny how people put terms on what is acceptable to have an abortion. If you feel that the baby has a right to live then why should it matter how it was conceived?

Or how about a woman who will die if she gives birth? Now which soul has more right to live? I mean if the woman has the kid, she dies and the kid grows up without a parent. And if she lives then the kid dies.. How do we decide that one?

See i too flip flop a lot on this subject. Cause it is a very sensitive subject. So what i try to do is simply say to each his own. And leave it at it's between a man, woman and the god they believe in..

[p-kitty]

kudos to the Prez. very well coined.

[Divine Intervention]

i love how i managed to get the 3 most controversial members in my nation in one war chat. lol.

[Mahdi]

IAnd i use to feel that women who were raped should not have to birth the child. then i became a rapist..

there it is we have it in writing.. erm someone call the Secret Service, our president just admitted to being a rapist... :P

well stated post Mr. P

[Mr President]

Go ahead and call the secret service.. they work for me :D


just don't tell the first lady.. holy crap that is where the hurting will begin lol

[Will]

i love how i managed to get the 3 most controversial members in my nation in one war chat. lol.

I'm mostly retired now:P

[Mahdi]

does this make him old and ornery(sp)?

[Mr President]

he isn't retired.. he is still very active.. it's threads like these that brings the best out of Will. He gets bored easily with some of the other threads cause they don't challenge him in anyway..

Keep making posts like these and you will see Will full swing :D


of course, if Spetz was here Will would def be retired.. heck i don't even think we could get him to make a account lmao...

[Mahdi]

uhm dont be so sure on your dismissal of spetz i do believe he is here just under a different name... and being good as well, which is surprising

[pcgluva]

ok here is how i see it theres a time and place for abortion like maggio has stated, it should not be used as contriception, i know one of my friends had a pregnacy scare at 16 she debated for a few days while waiting to get a pregnacy test, and she knew that she was going to have to have an abortion, but theres the idea if ur having sex u need to be prepared for the consequences just saying o forget it, i can just have an abortion isnt the way to go

[jasonlfunk]

I feel that this is between a man,woman and there god if they believe in one...

We don't use this logic for any other action - It's not up to a man, woman and their god if they want to kill their baby after it is born. It's not up to a man and his god if he wants to rape a girl. It's not up to a woman and her god if she wants to steal a car.

We don't use this subjective "whatever the heck your feel is right is okay" logic anywhere else in the law/moral system, why do you use it here when the lives of our most innocent citizens are at stake?

[jasonlfunk]

i love how i managed to get the 3 most controversial members in my nation in one war chat. lol.

Will invited me - blame him.:tomatoes:

[Cape]

Well my biggest problem with abortion is that it's used mainly out of convenience rather than necessity. In certain cases it's justified but plenty of times it's used simply to avoid having to raise a baby.

It wouldn't seem out of convenience if you were the one that got pregnant. :scared:

[-Z-]

someone i know had a baby...

this girl was 19 when she gave birth. family to me...

her mindset is incredibly... stripperish.

in fact i think she got pregnat while stripping.

father is .....(not sure what race he is, but he is a low life crook)

The boy is gonna grow up listening to 50 cent, his first word will likely be "shaaawwwty"

he wears rockafella clothes and will probably grow up on exclusively Mcdonalds and Mr. Noodles.

the mom doesnt work, im not sure what she does...

Perhaps adoption would have been a better idea...

Z

[Mr President]

We don't use this logic for any other action - It's not up to a man, woman and their god if they want to kill their baby after it is born. It's not up to a man and his god if he wants to rape a girl. It's not up to a woman and her god if she wants to steal a car.

We don't use this subjective "whatever the heck your feel is right is okay" logic anywhere else in the law/moral system, why do you use it here when the lives of our most innocent citizens are at stake?


Now see you make a VERY valid point here too. this is why it is so controversial..

It seems our current laws value a life outside the womb more then inside. Cause if you kill a man who is 99 yrs old or even if you kill a child who is 1 day old, you will be charged with murder. But yet, you can kill a child who is still inside the womb and you are protected under the law.

Is this right?

good point Jason!

[ranger2112]

a 16 year old girl was dating a 24 year old man back in 1968. they were not really an item, just having a fling whenever this young girl became pregnant. The man married her and their son was born. had this happened in 2008 that child may have ended up on the tip of a coat hanger. this young family eventually grew to three children..two of which have children...five total in all. had that woman opted to abort, then two children and five grandchildren ..etc would NOT be here. of course that child was me.

[jasonlfunk]

We must not confuse potentiality with actuality. An embryo is a potential human being. It can, granted the woman's choice, develop into an infant. But what it actually is during the first trimester is a mass of relatively undifferentiated cells that exist as a part of a woman's body. If we consider what it is rather than what it might become, we must acknowledge that the embryo under three months is something far more primitive than a frog or a fish. To compare it to an infant is ludicrous.

To say that an embryo is only potentially human is ridiculous. I will fully agree with you that an embryo is a potential adult, but it is already a human. It is completely human from the moment of conception. It is not yet able to walk, or talk, or anything that most adults can do - but it is human.