View Full Version : Financial UPDATE
Rassputtin
09-29-2008, 20:58
The bill was denied, 700 billion dollars will not be given by the government to save the failling economy.
As a result the Dow fell a record breaking 777 points in one day.
The largest single day drop in history.
IN addition, the global economy is suffering as well.
Points finger at whomever was boasting about belgian banks.
Three European governments agreed to a $16.4 billion bailout for Fortis NV, Belgium's largest retail bank,
and the British government said it was nationalizing mortgage lender Bradford & Bingley, which has a $91 billion mortgage and loan portfolio.
Clearly a sign that the crisis is beyond the US borders.
Anyway, this ships taking on water now boys. Good news is the price of gold went up 23 bucks.
Calvin74
09-29-2008, 21:08
i am not sure exactly where i stand on this but i don't like the idea of the government buying out companies as it gives the government to much power and the ability to seriously mismanage even more
certain banks are doing alright (those that didn't lend money out to just anyone) and i don't think people that made stupid decisions just because they wanted to own a house that was outside of their range should be bailed out with money from other people that were fiscally responsible
oh and banks all over europe have been having trouble for weeks and since just about every economy is based on the US then yeah this definetly affects everyone
The bill was denied, 700 billion dollars will not be given by the government to save the failling economy.
As a result the Dow fell a record breaking 777 points in one day.
.
Lets blame this one on the Democrats as well!
The bill was not to deal with the Failing economy. That is a whole separate issue.
The bill was to buy up debt that couldn't be sold in order to free up banks capitol to issue new debt in order to start making money. And when things settled back down, the debt bought by the government could be sold similar to what happened in the Savings and Loan scandal in the late 80s. I don't believe the proposal was a good idea because 700B is a drop in the bucket of what the problem is, and if they go all in, and it doesn't fix it, well then you will see a crash.
I actually believe that we will start experiencing Deflation and if that turns out to be true, gold (and other commodities) will continue to fall.
But you are correct, this is a global crisis.
Rassputtin
09-29-2008, 21:15
The index 5000 - lost paper wise 1 Trillion plus dollars.......... today.
I find it odd, it dropped......
777 points.
Crimson Shadow
09-29-2008, 21:55
Lets blame this one on the Democrats as well!
Democratic controlled house, so -Z- you can't blame this one on the republicans.
i am not sure exactly where i stand on this but i don't like the idea of the government buying out companies as it gives the government to much power and the ability to seriously mismanage even more
certain banks are doing alright (those that didn't lend money out to just anyone) and i don't think people that made stupid decisions just because they wanted to own a house that was outside of their range should be bailed out with money from other people that were fiscally responsible
oh and banks all over europe have been having trouble for weeks and since just about every economy is based on the US then yeah this definetly affects everyone
The latest bill dealt strictly with buying out banks, not other companies. If the economy is to recover, I think something like this is needed. Banks right now will NOT give out loans to people who want to buy a boat/RV/etc because it is too high risk, all their money is wrapped up in bank foreclosures. Right now even if someone wanted a luxury item they couldn't buy it because banks won't let them. That is why many companies, especially in my area (RV capital of the world) are going out of business.
Too many people got their mortgage using ARM which starts off at a low interest rate for about 5 years and then jumps up to the current interest rate. The problem with this is, most people's ARM's jumped at the same time, and it just so happened that it is when interest rates were ballooning and their interest payments were almost double. Most Americans can't keep up with that and their houses became foreclosed, putting banks out on average about $190.000 per house. Which leads back to the problem we have today. The bill won't solve all, but providing some relief to banks to give out more loans would definitely be a start.
Democratic controlled house, so -Z- you can't blame this one on the republicans.
However, way more Republicans voted against the bill than Democrats.
Because the Bill is so unpopular with American citizens, they were afraid to vote for it, since they know that would be damaging to their re-election hopes. You can't blame this just on one party.
Crimson Shadow
09-29-2008, 22:04
True, but it doesn't matter how many republicans vote no. The house is democratic and pretty much whatever the democrats want, they will get....unless the bill is vetoed or shot down in Senate.
This is good, bad, and quite amusing when you see the big picture.
Good in that its making the West take a look at things- energy is no longer cheap, and as a collective society (all of our countries), we need to be on the same page with new technology and doing so in a timely manner so we can stop bending over and assuming the position with every little thing that causes oil to go up (hurricanes, pundits on the market/tv, political instability at the sources, the phase of the moon, etc.)
Good also in that people are waking up to a new world where they can't borrow money at will, spend crazily, throw away money, and get bailed out when they can't pay it back.
Look at the suits of these major banks, sure, they may be out jobs, or their banks are falling apart, but I guarantee you that they have a golden parachute severance package that would make any middle class citizen in any country sick to their stomach.
Should this bailout be approved, there needs to be some provision to making these idiots who did predatory lending practices (see NINJA loans) willingly serve time in jail, pay fines, forefeit their severance, or any other appropriate penalty.
The bad comes with young people like myself who haven't yet bought a home, and people looking for loans. Credit markets are frozen, and if you get through the gauntlet, the interest rate is gonna suck. Apartments are looking a tad bit more attractive now. Jobs may drop here in the US as well as other sectors crap out due to the freeze of credit.
To me, I think the US (and possibly global) economy got too big for its britches, and is now contracting to a more stable size. Whether or not the descent is controlled is mostly up to the legislative bodies of various countries (unlike presidents or prime ministers, who people like to place the blame on).
For those who have been loling at amerikkka for the past year or so, the raincloud is starting to creep to your neck of the woods...and then we'll all laugh together in misery.
Clearly a sign that the crisis is beyond the US borders.
This was long beyond the US borders.
Toronto's main index (TSX) fell 850 points today. Mr Wolfe of Merrill Lynch Canada just said Canada is falling into the same vicious housing cycle that the US did (altho i must disagree on this one), inflation is up, housing prices have stalled.
Yet our PM Harper continues to say that the fundamentals of our economy are doing well. Does this sound familiar?
Thank you for adressing this Issue.
If it was me you would all bash me, because no one likes the truth, and my coarse way of stating things.
Z
Rassputtin
09-30-2008, 02:28
And it continues outward to the asian markets as they opened on tuesday and began plunging in the wake of the failed bill and global economic concerns.
Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index nose-dived more than 544 points
In Hong Kong, the Hang Seng index sank 3.6 percent
The key index in Taiwan's stock market, fell as much as 6.1 percent
The drag is also spreading to other global markets,
Australia's benchmark S&P/ASX-200 index fell more than 5.3 percent within half an hour of the opening, but trimmed some losses as trading progressed. By afternoon trading, it was down 3.7 percent.
Rassputtin
09-30-2008, 02:32
In other news... big surprise
Fannie Mac and Freddie Mac are facing a federal grand jury investigation into their accounting practices.
They have been riddled with scandle for the last decade. Funny how NOW they get subpeona's.
nNiIcCkKoO
09-30-2008, 10:33
Its not looking all that good for Australia either, the US market shocks are really affecting us now.
Bram Gotink
09-30-2008, 10:59
Points finger at whomever was boasting about belgian banks.
Three European governments agreed to a $16.4 billion bailout for Fortis NV, Belgium's largest retail bank,
lol IDK what the money is in $, so I trust that that is indeed €11.7 billion...
You forget that we now have a second bank in trouble... Dexia. Belgium/Luxembourgh/France came up with €6.4 billion to avert any problems.
Dexia will never go bankrupt (not boasting, serious). B/C if it would, the belgian communities, the belgian governments and the french communities would lose a lot of money...
Anyhow, Dexia shares lost 20% of their values yesterday lol
Fortis NV will not go bankrupt. The bank has enough money to survive, no matter what the stock does...
The Belgian government is still looking for someone to buy ABN Amro, one of the biggest Dutch banks. Fortis bought the bank for €24 billion, but that isn't going to work ...
The shares of Fortis dropped 20%... friday, that was. Another 5% yesterday.
One of the greatest belgian economics/economists/whatever already advised everyone to sell Fortis in June... lollollol Why didn't they listen? He sold his shares at €33.- Yesterday, it was a mere €5.-
BTW, those three countries were Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourgh.
If anything could be learned from this, it is that the BeNeLux is as strong as ever and is still working together.
And, this is the first time our Prime Minister has done something good in the last year...
Except breaking his political faction, starting fights inside the government etc. etc. etc.
N.B.: Belgium doesn't have enough money left to do this "bailing out", so we will have to borrow some lol
Hmm, which bank should we borrow from?
N.B.: Sorry Rass, but the USofA is still fracked up far far more than any European country/bank.
Saying no to the only plan that could save your economy? STUPID ! May I quote something?
The American politicians were scared of their voters. They will get assessed in November, so they want to please the voters.
How can you please your voters by making your country FUBAR?
no offense tho, it's the politicians, not the avg. American citizen I'm talking about
EDIT: Just some small thing, something funny: about the former CEO of Fortis, who "resigned" during the weekend. The Direction/board is still discussing whether or not to give him a "tip"/"golden parachute" of a mere €5,000,000.- for "his good work"...
or not lol
EDIT(bis): The Belgian government is planning on changing its policy about banking and loans. The government (secretary of finance or someone else) will also become a member of the direction of Dexia and Fortis. Both companies have been (partly) nationalized. Dexia by France and Belgium, Fortis by Holland, Belgium and Luxembourgh.
Blackwater
09-30-2008, 21:32
Just so you know, it won't necessarily be $700 Billion. It will be $250 immediately, then if need $150, then if necessary another $300 but Congress will vote on that last margin if it is necessary. That being said, it's still a ridiculous amount of money. Lastly, fcuk Pelosi and her speech before the vote. A time when we need to be bipartisan and she pulls that.
Mwahahahaha
10-10-2008, 18:22
A great package for what was the problem a year ago. Now it's only a pathetic wank showing that they don't have a clue about what's going on.
To follow it up, they had a world-wide reduction of interest rate to further prove that they are clueless.
Why are the markets falling?
Because businesses need cash to pay their bills. Banks don't loan out money. The bond markets are completely dead. The only way to raise money these days are to sell stocks, and the stock markets are plummeting because of this. This is going to continue until one of two things happens. The governments step in with capital and either take over the banks or give them guarantees, or the markets are completely bombed out and every weak financial institution has defaulted taking with them a good number of industrial companies resulting in bankcrupsies, more failed loans, more lost jobs and an even worse economy.
This is nothing like the asian crisis or the dot com crisis. The financial institutions are the heart and core of the economy. Without them nothing will function. This is the worst crisis anyone in this forum has ever seen. We're back to the thirties. The reason the thirties was so bad was that everyone refused to help each other and stocked up on cash on their own. Hopefully people have learned from that. This is not the time to stand by their principles about the free market. This is the time to step in and stop this crap.
The wall street has bled enough, surely, I don't disagree with them deserving it considering the compensations they have awarded themselves, but a bail-out now is not about saving wall street. It's about saving the world economy, the capitalist system, and the world as we know it today. Without the efficiency of the capitalist system, we are not able to support the populations we have today. The tax-payers are going to get it in the arse no matter what, but the consequences will be less by bailing out wall street. The damage to the real economy will be worse for every day the government doesn't take the necessary steps.
The Italian prime minister expressed it the worst when he suggesting closing the stock markets. Great idea! Let's bury our heads in the sand and close down the last source of getting cash, so that everyone can go bankrupt!
I've had fun so far with my short positions, but now it's not funny anymore. For god's sake, wake up!
Divine Intervention
10-10-2008, 20:03
according to my mum the Russian markets got ****ed today. apparently a 65% fall.
can anyone confirm this?
Mwahahahaha
10-11-2008, 19:45
according to my mum the Russian markets got ****ed today. apparently a 65% fall.
can anyone confirm this?
Russia has capitulated. The russian market was closed yesterday. 65% down is probably for the year.
Divine Intervention
10-16-2008, 22:06
anyone able to provide more indepth knowledge on whats happening with Russia + Iceland?
Fu** russia they invaded georgia
j/p i love russian girls
Divine Intervention
10-16-2008, 23:01
Georgia started it. and yes Russian girls are ****ing fit.
I just found a comic about the situation:
http://www.nu.nl/mmbase/images/1795366
Max Logan
10-18-2008, 09:30
Georgia started it. and yes Russian girls are ****ing fit.
Did Georgia invade Russia?
**offtopic**
Divine Intervention
10-18-2008, 09:35
Did Georgia invade Russia?
**offtopic**
did Georgia start the conflict by killing innocent civilians, killing peacekeepers and using military action when not needed especially considering that it promised the day before not to use it?
**offtopic**
Max Logan
10-18-2008, 09:38
did Georgia start the conflict by killing innocent civilians, killing peacekeepers and using military action when not needed especially considering that it promised the day before not to use it?
**offtopic**
did Georgia invide Russia?
**offtopic**
Divine Intervention
10-18-2008, 09:44
did Georgia invide Russia?
**offtopic**
no, Georgia invaded South Ossetia. Russia helped them.
**offtopic**
Max, ive argued this issue for over 90 pages or so on another forum and won. the **** am i gonna waste my time on you on an argument you will not win. if you want i can link you to that thread, you can read it, then if you have any arguments for me you can post them here, otherwise ill simply be repeating myself.
Max Logan
10-18-2008, 09:48
no, Georgia invaded South Ossetia. Russia helped them.
**offtopic**
Max, ive argued this issue for over 90 pages or so on another forum and won. the **** am i gonna waste my time on you on an argument you will not win. if you want i can link you to that thread, you can read it, then if you have any arguments for me you can post them here, otherwise ill simply be repeating myself.
South Ossetia is, was, doesn`t matter anymore, part of Georgia, so Russia invade Georgia. Whats there to argue? :confused:
They invaded a sovereign republic, killed and mauradered Georgia`s villages and cities. And annected one of its territories. Invasion and occupation basics, Russia style. No argues here
Divine Intervention
10-18-2008, 09:56
South Ossetia is, was, doesn`t matter anymore, part of Georgia, so Russia invade Georgia. Whats there to argue? :confused:
They invaded a sovereign republic, killed and mauradered Georgia`s villages and cities. And annected one of its territories. Invasion and occupation basics, Russia style. No argues here
as i said. if you want i can link you to that thread and you can read it. this isn't 2005 anymore Max and im now old enough to see you for what you are - troll ;)
if you want to debate the issue properly then we can.
Max Logan
10-18-2008, 16:46
as i said. if you want i can link you to that thread and you can read it. this isn't 2005 anymore Max and im now old enough to see you for what you are - troll ;)
if you want to debate the issue properly then we can.
debate? what you want to debate? you want to turn it around.
But you can`t escape the fact Russian army invaded a sovereign country without a reason, and there was none, besides the bull**** peace keeping one.
What Russia needed is to weaken Georgia`s positions and hinder them to join NATO and EU. For that they put Georgia in turmoil. That`s why they went giving out Russian passport to Oseatins, put their forces on stand by at Georgias boarders and kept pressing towards the capital and looting everything on the way even after truce was declared.
I`m a troll? You`re far worse if you can`t admit the simple fact Russia is off showing muscles even though its time as a world superpower has gone a long time ago
Divine Intervention
10-18-2008, 18:33
ok troll. do you want the link or not?
Give me link or give me death.
Divine Intervention
10-18-2008, 20:03
http://forums.pesfan.com/showthread.php?t=204532&highlight=Georgia
70 page thread. you're going to need to register to read the forum though. we get a bit sidetracked at one point lol.
Max Logan
10-19-2008, 05:17
ok troll. do you want the link or not?
you can always avoid a discussion by insult, just proves you wrong
Divine Intervention
10-19-2008, 07:24
you can always avoid a discussion by insult, just proves you wrong
im not avoiding the discussion. im simply going to avoid repeating myself over and over to someone who wont listen without first giving them the opportunity to read most of my arguments before hand. ive proven much more formidable opponents than you wrong, wasting my time again on you would simply be crazy when as i said, everything is laid out there for you to read before hand. heck i imagine im even giving you an advantage. its like giving someone the notes of their opponent b4 a debate...
i have present you with a chance to read my arguments. you have decided not to. case closed.
Max Logan
10-19-2008, 08:36
i could give you links to tens of other threads, and all it means is I`m avoiding confrontation. you did. verdict?
Divine Intervention
10-19-2008, 08:43
if you say so max. im not going to feed you. if you are genuinely interested in debating this you will eventually read the thread and attack my arguments.
if not then theres not much more to discuss. you have to see that its not a case of avoiding it, i love teaching the unenlightened about the subject matter at hand
however you have to understand that i don't want to retype 70 pages worth of debate. if you ask really nicely then i might copy and paste you my replies,
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