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Mr President
05-16-2010, 13:57
I am putting this in here cause I want it to be seen and i want people to reply.

This post is not directed to one person... it is directed to all of you.

I'm not sure when or where things turned around but when i first started playing i died a lot.. Once i died i was eager to get back in the fight and kill someone else.. It was not uncommon for me to die several times during a set.
USA was in some pretty hairy wars through the years.. Ones where the odds were not in our favor and many states died to get it to what it is today. But now it seems when a war breaks out two things happen each time.. 1) there is always someone who quits 2) the forums light up with the exact same posts being made.. (wars are killing this game... this is unfair... ect ect)

Each time this happens I am faced with 2 choices.. We can take out warring from the game and then we lose all the warring members or we can keep it as it is and eventually lose all the netting members.. There really is no in between. There really are no longer any good reasons to war. This community is so tight that all the good reasons are gone. If we get new members they are well received and in no time they are a strong part of the community and nobody will war them like the don't there other friends.

I honestly have no idea on how to fix this. I wish i did but i don't. So you all are going to have to tell me.

I don't understand where the nation pride is anymore. It seems whenever something happens they don't like, they quit. They no longer work with other nations and begin a plot to revenge the situation or make the plot blow up in the enemies face. Where did all of that go? Is it cause everyone is so close now? Is it cause nobody cares anymore? I personally just don't get it.

People will spend hours playing call of duty and get killed by snipers over and over again and not quit.. But now in this game, you get killed and you quit. Yes i do understand there is more work involved in this game and getting back into the war takes a little longer but my point is still the same.

Let's take the current war for instance. Do i think it's a fair war? not hardly. Would i have chosen to attack them? Nope.. But back in the day this happened all the time and everyone loved it and got back on the horse and seeked justice.. Now they don't.. Now they either quit or better yet spend a set suiciding and then talk about how the game is dying.

We have tried fixing this some. We made the war preparation times. We increased the amount of turns for war and none of it really did any good or fixed any of the problem..We also enacted the Patriot Act which did cut suiciding down to an all time low, but the members didn't like the admin interference. But really how can we fix how people want to play the game? Some want to war, some want to net. We can't have nation being protected from war cause that kind of makes the game invalid.
I don't want 2 server, one for warring and one for netting cause again that makes the game invalid. So what can we really do? Are we just wasting our time trying to keep this game going?

Maybe it's time we really take a strong look at what we want out of this game. Maybe it's time for a big change in it. Maybe it's time to just walk away.. I have no idea.. So if you would all be so kind to tell me exactly what it is you want that would be great. If you have ideas on solutions to the war/netting problem then list them out..

Before you reply or even think about replying, don't reply if your going to spam it up or start blaming everyone else for whats wrong with the game. I don't want to hear how everything is LoR's fault or WLF's fault. They enjoy warring. It's how they play the game. And as i have always said we can't limit people to how they want to play. (except suiciders cause well they just suck and have no respect for the game or anyone else.) Post your thoughts and your ideas.. It's time to really debate about this.

Mr President
05-16-2010, 14:00
i just moved this to the admin news section.. I didn't want it to get buried in the wars and relations section.

pron
05-16-2010, 14:28
If you want a small change:

1. Add something so that a nation cannot be warred. Whether part of tech, or something like GDN and TDN. To balance that, you would need to add a negative component (less % able to be put into tech, increased taxes, less # of SA's to be made in a certain time frame, or reduce the % of land they get on landgrabs). This would allow netters to be netters, but would not simply safeguard them. It would allow a nation that could war (and be warred) an advantage to outnetting them. Also, make it so there's a time limit for someone to be a part of this nation (so that someone can't jump into the nation for a day and then jump out and vice versa). This option would have to be selected during set-up of nation.

2. Reduce the surrender feature so that it can be declared upon "building forces" phase of war. This will allow nations that simply don't want to war to surrender out before losing a state. However, make the surrendering option tougher by saying that the surrendering nation cannot do any attacks on the nation that they surrendered to for a week (including SA) and a possible reduction of the forces of individual states (not just NA).

If you want to make a big change:

1. Part of the problem with warring is that there are not a lot of available targets. We have 3-5 main nations, and in this size of community, that is pretty small. Instead of limiting nation size, why not get rid of nations altogether and replace it with diplomatic ties and whatnot. You could have military alliances that help defend (20% of your army helps defend another or something) and limit it to 3-5 alliances.
A disadvantage of this idea is that we lose part of the essence of the game. Its a nation based warring game.
An advantage is that we make the game a little more friendly to people just starting out. Also, it increases the number of people that can be warred, and allows people to be retributive more easily. It also gives warring people more targets than just 3 nations. Effectively gets rid of suiciding, since a 1v1 war is a war and not suiciding.
Make it so war can be declared from state to state. People buy tech for their own state to increase production values and whatnot.

Magalya2
05-16-2010, 16:23
**Lady Mags bows deeply upon hearing Mr President and spoke **

I thank you very much Mr President to have open this thread :)

Since a while , i am reading threads around the Nation War Lands and it brings me much questioning and i was juggling on where and how to bring my thoughts .

You do know Mr President where i come from as you have come to meet the Lords and Ladies from Lord of Legend Realm in our forum many moons ago .

Immortal Trade ( Game Maker of the LoL Realm ) had decide not without great pain to put the key in the game and close it :blink:

We were at that time around 1 k Lords and Ladies still playing the LoL game and it was ( and still is but with not much peoples left ) like in here a forum community driving game .

True that it was another kind of War game then this one but in a sense it was the same as it was a computer and coding deciding if we were winning or not and what we were loosing or not when we were attacking .

Then was coming big Wars against Clans and alliances and my my so many things lol

There was like here some that were looking only on building there Warlords army and win the Round .

Were they true Winners if they had not participate in any Wars and just rush power ..... the answer for me is Nope

As it is in here , when a Set finish , we all see in the ''All State Scores ''Link a ''Congratulation to XXXX for winning the Set ''....

Should it be take out so that on that page we see the Nation that will have win ??

I do not want to bring disgrace to all those that choose to simply Net but in a War Game should'nt we expect War amongst the NW Lands ????

From what i have seen , many in here are Hard Cores that have stick to the NW Game and the forum community and it is all to your honor as it mean something strong tied you all together but at the same time being together since so long also brings other elements : grudges from past Wars - concepts on how one is or not knowing how they would have posts since so many years ....

It is certainly not easy to dissociate previous concepts to simply having FUN together playing a War Game and i do understand what it can be to live with someone holding grudges from past Era as it have happen to me in teh LoL game .

It does leave scars that can be hard to heal but when we do Love the game we play and the Community , like they say '' Let it flow on your back and have FUN '' easy to say but not easy to do all the time lol but the NW Community being so small now , i think it is a MUST .

I can tell you that it is very hard to see a Game we do love to play ... die trust me :(

I think i can say that i am a war monger and when i have come to the NW Realm , i was expecting Wars and was anxious to see how it was working in here and i sure was ready to die lol

I do think like i have propose in another thread that when we die , we should start again with 200 turns not 100 helping peoples having fun to start over again a State and be ready again to participate in the War .their Nations are in :)

We can find in the ''Capture The Flag ''Game the 1 vs 1 option , there is no need in my sense to make it this way in the NW game .

The Game was working before , why change plenty of coding !!!!

Is it more a question of maybe having an introspection and realize '' ok , i might have gone wrong about a few things ....'' and start again fresh just for the FUN of the game and the peoples around we share the community with ... !!!

I think i beat you Mr President with this long post ;)

Just a few of my thoughts thank you for reading :)

:walmp:

Lady Mags ☼

P.S. : Btw Mr President , i am still on my knees waiting for an absolution from you and my knees begin to hurt :blushing:

Thank you :)

Edit : to bring discussion , there was little trick in my post , see page 3 ;)

pron
05-16-2010, 16:26
Just to bounce of Mag's thoughts

It might be worthwhile to increase the turns a restart gets based on how far the set has gone on. Say 100 turns for the first 5 days, and 50 turns for every day after that the set has gone on?

Disorder
05-16-2010, 17:11
Nation member caps?

pron
05-16-2010, 18:03
Member caps will just lead to 5 nations jumping another nation instead of just 1 nation vs. 1 nation.

Soviet Russia
05-16-2010, 18:09
We may totally remove AA, GA, AR and bombing from peace-time attacks. That way, there'd be no more suicidings. Because, suiciders do not mind how much turns they would waste, 5 turn attacks just make it harder, thats all. So, they'd be forced to strike as a non-nation state OR by declaring war.

We all remember that USSR was not a 'so much great' nation and unfortunately, when we got enought members and strenght, we divided into two (then 4, lol)

Anyway, listen guys, it was my first nation and our aim was always "warring and getting higher". Warring was not a way to disturb others, but it was a path to remove netting nations out of the way.

Unfortunately, we do not have much newbies today. And that means less illegal attacks. That is what %99 of those netters understand from the "reason of war": It is 3 and more SAs. And only n00bs do that. That makes no sense to me, why should I wait for a n00b from ABT to strike me with 3 SA for a war? How could that be 'acceptable', 3SA or 4SA or 5... its just bull****, it makes no harm, plus means gb protection.

I do not have right to speak for the war nations; but for many warrers, REASON of WAR is "getting rid of other strong nations". Thats all, thats very simple. Can't we beat you by netting? Then we'd try killing. Very legistimate.


And you should be so glad because as I could see, war nations (LoR and WLF) seek for WORTHY enemies. ICN could be argued; but in most cases, they attacked strong nations.

If I WERE there leader of WLF or LoR, you can be sure, I'd raze the stockers and jumpers. THAT'd harm the game. You should thank to Z and DBoz because they refused every suggestion by me to kill those 1-2 member stocker nations.

Will
05-16-2010, 19:10
There are several ways to attempt to solve the problem of warring, as well as simply leave it alone. The first and most obvious is to ban it outright. Not only will this drive away the warrers, it will have the effect of removing at a stroke jets, agm, bombers and ships (until the very end of the set) from the game. Without war attacks infantry whoring will be the norm even more than it is now. Even spies will be severely curtailed, as why bother hitting the target with a ton of spyops when you can invest the turns in grabbing or cashing, which will do far more for your score?. Also, unless it is classed as suiciding, making a string of destructive spyops on a state will have no real consequences, since you won't be able to kill/hobble the state in retaliation except genocide ops, which is a massive waste of turns for any netting state, even more so if the target is a casher.

War can be limited in some ways, but most of these will have ways of getting round them as has been noted above. You can create a nation member cap, but then you will get multiple versions of the same nation. You can remove nations, but in my opinion this will kill the game faster than any war. Nations and the diplomacy between them have been around so long that removing them is in my view unthinkable. Limiting a nation's ability to declare war based on the members in that nation may stop suiciding, but any competent and determined war nation will be able to muster the numbers to get around it.

I am convinced that the single biggest stumbling block to the war/net balance isn't the structure of the game or the specific rules attached to warring, but the mentality of players. As long as there are people who are hell bent on war, they will either find ways to war or if they are literally banned from warring ie all war attacks removed, then they will quit. Not only will this harm the playerbase, but it will lead to a game in which there is no risk for any state. The first state to get top with a decent edge in infantry will (barring exteme bad luck ie a string of red turns) win the set for certain. No state will be able to grab them. They will be able to grab anyone they want, even triple tap without fear of serious retaliation. Does anyone seriously think this will benefit the game? Even the most hardened netter will eventually tire of this and war will return, possibly to a significantly reduced player base.

We can change the written rules as much as we like, but the only way to truly solve this problem is to come up with solid unwritten rules known to every nation leader on when it is acceptable to war, and if you can't find a reason to war then you'll have to net for the set. I am a committed warrer, and while I dislike having to net when I can't find good war reasons, it is preferable to seeing people quit over pointless wars that ultimately can only lead to the death of the game.

totte
05-16-2010, 19:23
The problem with the game today is simple when the player base was higher war just for the sake of war was ok.

But now the player base is to small for it and at the same time in a sense people are to thin skined.

There is no diplomacy no retal policys to spark wars so for warers it´s more troublesome to find targets to war or rather to find reasons for war.


The comunity is pro netting mostly so of course when a war just for the heck of it is declared these days you know you will be flamed on the forums thus shouldnt act so suprised about it as we tend to see. because you should´ve learned by now...

And we see this set for example lor looking to war but they dont want to war abt because they are friends sky cause they got spanked alot lately so they pick another nation.

This is a problem if you want to be a war nation you cannot have friends in that sense with the current player base you either keep all options open or you dont war simple as that and i would say people seam abit simple minded today the unwritten rules of say no double taps in top 10 etc.

If you want to war you need to be abit more creative with how to do it the comunity as such is today pro netting and thus "no reason wars" is not liked,
so what you need to do is provoke a war so you do say a double tap in top 10 or some such or make a retal policy thats not aceptable to others.

On the other hand if your in a small nation or just dont want to war be smart about it talk to other nation leaders make allies so that if
you do get hit you will not stand alone against a bigger nation. Diplomacy is a tool in the game use it.

biggest problem of the game atm is the attitude of it´s players far to much energy is spent flameing eachother on the forums.

Now does my post provide any solutions? no it doesnt it mainly points out things that need to change only with a bigger player base will
this game truly get anywhere! dont be hardcore this way or that way only.
compromise abit for the better of the game if we as a comunity continue in the way we are now i personaly dont see a point in mr p wasteing his time.

Disorder
05-16-2010, 19:58
Create a netting option for nations.. Thus, preventing any state from tag jumping and that nation from going to war, along with a member cap.

Mr President
05-16-2010, 20:53
There are several ways to attempt to solve the problem of warring, as well as simply leave it alone. The first and most obvious is to ban it outright. Not only will this drive away the warrers, it will have the effect of removing at a stroke jets, agm, bombers and ships (until the very end of the set) from the game. Without war attacks infantry whoring will be the norm even more than it is now. Even spies will be severely curtailed, as why bother hitting the target with a ton of spyops when you can invest the turns in grabbing or cashing, which will do far more for your score?. Also, unless it is classed as suiciding, making a string of destructive spyops on a state will have no real consequences, since you won't be able to kill/hobble the state in retaliation except genocide ops, which is a massive waste of turns for any netting state, even more so if the target is a casher.

War can be limited in some ways, but most of these will have ways of getting round them as has been noted above. You can create a nation member cap, but then you will get multiple versions of the same nation. You can remove nations, but in my opinion this will kill the game faster than any war. Nations and the diplomacy between them have been around so long that removing them is in my view unthinkable. Limiting a nation's ability to declare war based on the members in that nation may stop suiciding, but any competent and determined war nation will be able to muster the numbers to get around it.

I am convinced that the single biggest stumbling block to the war/net balance isn't the structure of the game or the specific rules attached to warring, but the mentality of players. As long as there are people who are hell bent on war, they will either find ways to war or if they are literally banned from warring ie all war attacks removed, then they will quit. Not only will this harm the playerbase, but it will lead to a game in which there is no risk for any state. The first state to get top with a decent edge in infantry will (barring exteme bad luck ie a string of red turns) win the set for certain. No state will be able to grab them. They will be able to grab anyone they want, even triple tap without fear of serious retaliation. Does anyone seriously think this will benefit the game? Even the most hardened netter will eventually tire of this and war will return, possibly to a significantly reduced player base.

We can change the written rules as much as we like, but the only way to truly solve this problem is to come up with solid unwritten rules known to every nation leader on when it is acceptable to war, and if you can't find a reason to war then you'll have to net for the set. I am a committed warrer, and while I dislike having to net when I can't find good war reasons, it is preferable to seeing people quit over pointless wars that ultimately can only lead to the death of the game.

This is a great post and exactly what I was hoping for in a reply.. I'm not trying to impugn anyone else comments, but really what needs to change is the members. I do like the idea of maybe allowing nations to chose warring or netting with pluses and benefits to each but that's another story.

I do still want to hear more replies cause there are lots of good ideas out there that still need to be heard. But as Will stated, it's not so much the game that needs to change as it is the members. People need to think outside of their own box. I wish I was able to increase membership to 500 members overnight cause that would really help with most of our problems.. But i can't. So until that happens everyone must think long term effects on warring decisions.. And on the flip side of that, those who do get warred need to have a little more understanding as well.. I know it sucks logging on to a dead state, but when you rebuild and kill.... that is the sweetest victory! :)

Will
05-16-2010, 21:02
I'm sceptical of the idea of "designated netting nations" if this is brought in 90% of nations will choose it, leaving only a tiny handful of warrers, who will get tired of fighting each other very quickly and either net or quit.

Disorder
05-16-2010, 21:18
I'm sceptical of the idea of "designated netting nations" if this is brought in 90% of nations will choose it, leaving only a tiny handful of warrers, who will get tired of fighting each other very quickly and either net or quit.

The UN could appoint 1 safe nation... ummm.

BeeNo
05-16-2010, 21:53
will had a great post. i knew the game pretty well, but early when i was starting out as a leader i had planned a war. got hit by antons nation, ns, and vT, so few players survived the FS from these 3 nations that we weren't even able to mount a CS. compounded by the fact that we were infiltrated by spies that month it was really frustrating. you can't shelter new leaders/nations/players. this was a wake up call for me as a leader to the organization of these other players and nations. i was much more selective as to who i let into the nation. ABT has 4 new players this month, but we got them all on pure strats, and i believe if it came to war they would be able to help, and i would plan to get them evolved even if they missed strikes i would leave targets for them. if they go inactive for a month they are removed from the nation. we did this for a N player last month and guess what he rejoined us again this month and hasn't missed a turn.

when xELDx was a smaller nation, and i knew there was a large warring nation out there, you better believe i went out and made some alliances in case we were warred. you can choose alot of routes to this game. but if you want to remain neutral and net it usually takes some work from your nation leader to keep you safe diplomatically. taking warring out of the game would simply kill the fun of it. that being said no i don't want to die, and it can be very frustrating to be warred/suicided. but part of the challenge of this game is avoiding that.

most fun war i had was EX vs xELDx, and believe it or not i could of taken a retaliation and maybe secured the top spot that month after i was AA'd. but i was really happy and excited to see the amount of support the nation showed me by everyone showing up to war.

i really hope it doesn't drag me into trouble for saying it but i will not quit if i'm attacked. i will regroup and do whatever i can to win the war and then finish the month as best i can. when dak came back in vindication we won our 1st month back in overall networth by just a hair, and gnorf had been suicided from the top spot. he finished 7th that month after being killed over a week into the set. now that to me was as big of an accomplishment as winning the month. he didn't give up on his nation, and we still won the month. dak was a good mix of netters and warrers, you know what the players who liked to war in dak did during peace times? they carried out retaliations and protected the netters/new players in the nation. there is a role that states who like to war can play even at times of peace besides suicides/destructive spy ops.

i guess i haven't really given any major solutions, but i hope this adds to the discussion. i hate losing, in warring or netting. but i will always try to finish the best i can with the time i have available.

pron
05-16-2010, 22:18
I'm sceptical of the idea of "designated netting nations" if this is brought in 90% of nations will choose it, leaving only a tiny handful of warrers, who will get tired of fighting each other very quickly and either net or quit.

Which is why the negative component would need to be large enough that a nation would want to be able to be warred in order to secure top spot easier.

Dogma
05-17-2010, 02:33
I made a long *** post on this subject and it is now gone. Let me sit and pick it aprt again.

Max Logan
05-17-2010, 07:58
The idea to take away warring should be abandoned at it`s core! Warring is essential for the game and should be preserved!

No one nation should be safe from war either, the whole point is to be ready to defend and attack, as that`s the whole point. The problem we face is that people are too keen on netting. Me included. But as we can see only war bring more activity, else we are stuck at doing the same **** thing day and day.

If it comes down to it, I`d say we remove pure netting aspect from the game! If a nation decided to net, it cannot perform attack of any sort, SA included, and as such may be safe from warring. But this will most certainly kill the quality and skill of the game.

I would rather advice nations to take a month or two to try and do warring. Summer is coming, people might have more time, so it would be nice to have a summer warring period, to make people feel war and bring more fun and activity in the game!

Nations can make alliances and bad together to kill others. This may hit hard with die-hard netters, but maybe it`s a spark we need! Some little bloodshed, some little activity! Maybe even ask old members to come back and test it, have some fun! Maybe we will actually enjoy it, and start to take warring more serious.

I remember back in WoW when I first joined, warring was so much fun, there were no netting nations, maybe a small netting tag, but the other were all ready to war if they had to. In my first long term nation, CW, I enjoyed warring, fighting with other nations. Then I started a year or so switching between warring tags and it was fun! Until I banded up with Kenny and started our long term friendship which lasted until he left and now, when he came back, I rejoined as fast as I could, because I feel bonded, as we were through a lot during LoR and their under nations (WLF, D..something, and viets) constant war preasure. Same with Warlord, Fangz and E.

I really miss the commitment. As set before last when WLF suicided me, I just left, I felt no desire to fight back, screw it. I miss the commitment! I wanna have a cause!

So let`s find a cause, war for a reason - our nations. Maybe we will find that warring isn`t all just destructive, get rid of this netter mentality as Will said. Screw it, they declared without reason, let`s just ask someone to help us and strike back! If they don`t like it, let them ask for help!

I wanna suggest, staring next set, let`s leave the netting and start a Summer Warring Fest! Sounds like fun! :p

Soviet Russia
05-17-2010, 10:59
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:: thumbup::thumbup:

Dogma
05-17-2010, 17:12
I am putting this in here cause I want it to be seen and i want people to reply.

This post is not directed to one person... it is directed to all of you.

I'm not sure when or where things turned around but when i first started playing i died a lot.. Once i died i was eager to get back in the fight and kill someone else.. It was not uncommon for me to die several times during a set.
USA was in some pretty hairy wars through the years.. Ones where the odds were not in our favor and many states died to get it to what it is today. But now it seems when a war breaks out two things happen each time.. 1) there is always someone who quits 2) the forums light up with the exact same posts being made.. (wars are killing this game... this is unfair... ect ect)

First, you cannot remove war from the game. It is an integral part of the game and if it were removed we would have maybe 35 people trying to beat a few top netters.

Each time this happens I am faced with 2 choices.. We can take out warring from the game and then we lose all the warring members or we can keep it as it is and eventually lose all the netting members.. There really is no in between. There really are no longer any good reasons to war. This community is so tight that all the good reasons are gone. If we get new members they are well received and in no time they are a strong part of the community and nobody will war them like the don't there other friends.

Agreed,but with some players it takes a little more time to meet people and to get comfortable in the community as wee are such a close nknit group of peole. When new people come in, it useed to be that they were taken in by some group and taught how to get around in the game. How to make a state, how to use the different strats how to basically play well enough to make themselves proud till they can get to a point of improving. to me 15 days is not enough time to get comfortable enough in your nation of with the peole that you are in a nation with to be in a war with the likes of a LoR or WLF or a USA for that matter. Especially for new leaders who themselves are reasonably new players.

I honestly have no idea on how to fix this. I wish i did but i don't. So you all are going to have to tell me.

A fix cannot be programmed in, it must come form us.

I don't understand where the nation pride is anymore. It seems whenever something happens they don't like, they quit. They no longer work with other nations and begin a plot to revenge the situation or make the plot blow up in the enemies face. Where did all of that go? Is it cause everyone is so close now? Is it cause nobody cares anymore? I personally just don't get it.

Everyone has their own idea of how they wahnt to play the game, which is one of the best things about this game. It is just that there are certain people that think their way isbetter than someone elses way of playing and thier idea of fun is more fun than someone elses idea of what is enjoyable

People will spend hours playing call of duty and get killed by snipers over and over again and not quit.. But now in this game, you get killed and you quit. Yes i do understand there is more work involved in this game and getting back into the war takes a little longer but my point is still the same.

You can't compare the two types of games as they are totally different in there game play and their premise of the game.

Let's take the current war for instance. Do i think it's a fair war? not hardly. Would i have chosen to attack them? Nope.. But back in the day this happened all the time and everyone loved it and got back on the horse and seeked justice.. Now they don't.. Now they either quit or better yet spend a set suiciding and then talk about how the game is dying.

again, you can't program out the war part of the game. It used to be that natins would take a new leader under their wings and try and help them be a better leader. That doesn't happen here anymore.

We have tried fixing this some. We made the war preparation times. We increased the amount of turns for war and none of it really did any good or fixed any of the problem..We also enacted the Patriot Act which did cut suiciding down to an all time low, but the members didn't like the admin interference. But really how can we fix how people want to play the game? Some want to war, some want to net. We can't have nation being protected from war cause that kind of makes the game invalid.
I don't want 2 server, one for warring and one for netting cause again that makes the game invalid. So what can we really do? Are we just wasting our time trying to keep this game going? [/B

Again, programming isn't gong to fix anything. Hte changes that have been made to the game now , were exceptional, it isin't the game that needs to change it's us



[B]Maybe it's time we really take a strong look at what we want out of this game. Maybe it's time for a big change in it. Maybe it's time to just walk away.. I have no idea.. So if you would all be so kind to tell me exactly what it is you want that would be great. If you have ideas on solutions to the war/netting problem then list them out..

Before you reply or even think about replying, don't reply if your going to spam it up or start blaming everyone else for whats wrong with the game. I don't want to hear how everything is LoR's fault or WLF's fault. They enjoy warring. It's how they play the game. And as i have always said we can't limit people to how they want to play. (except suiciders cause well they just suck and have no respect for the game or anyone else.) Post your thoughts and your ideas.. It's time to really debate about this.

see above post. This game had evolved and there is no one person or group of people to change, I just think that the patience and the courtesy that we once had is gone

Vortex
05-17-2010, 18:02
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thum bup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:: thumbup::thumbup:

Althoug I have to agree with the thumbs up. Why do you make comments like
"why should I wait for a n00b from ABT to strike me"?? I think this shows a mentality. Im not gonna start a pissing contest who has the most sets or wars under his belt. But respect or acknowledgement towards other nations/players is something that is missing here in my opinion. Even if its your "enemy" when theyve done a great job are you too proud to say it?

Soviet Russia
05-18-2010, 02:52
oh no I did not mean that. It was an example. And "waiting a n00b from ABT to attack" is meaningless (that was what I meant) because there is no n00b in ABT, that means, there'd be no triple SAs :)

Xavior
05-18-2010, 03:11
When I first joined the game, I found that the warring aspect was an integral part which made the game enjoyable and allowed you to use teamwork to win. Without warring, you could pretty much play by yourself in a tag and jump into a nation when you have enough stock, but what is the fun in that? The problem now is that the constant risk we had before is gone. Before, many many players were doing ARs, GAs, AAs randomly to anyone they saw. If you did not have teamates to back you up and to retaliate, you could be overwhelmed very quickly.

There was a lot more random wars back then. My first serious nation CW, we were warred endlessly it seemed and we got our asses handed to us month after month. Yet I don't recall anyone of us quitting because of it. The mentality these days that if I die, I'm going to quit because this is a netting game is simply rediculous. When Empire wiped us out, we warred them back the very next month even though I think we got killed off again (maybe Max can confirm this? :P ). Revenge was fun, and war was what made me stay. I did not have a real 'netting' set until maybe half a year after I registered.

Whats changed these days? Honestly, I can't put my finger on it. No longer are alliances important in this game. When I was in Empire in the first few months of its existance , I was in contact with 5-6 other midsized nations setting up possible alliances or defensive pacts because everyone was under constant threat of war. If a big nation warred us, we had to be ready to call in our allies.

Another example. Farm Wars was a new nation back in 2003 led by Mystery Dave. It had 6-7 players in it, all new. MysteryDave posted on the forums one day saying that FW was being picked on by some US Navy Seals nation and they kept on being killed by them. I was FA of Empire at that time, and I arranged for Empire to come in and help FW. This formed a long lasting alliance and friendship betwen Empire and Farm Wars that lasted for years. It was during the same period where I also setup other relationships with USA (also new) and Hawkeye's nation (SB) and Foxhounds nation (later merged with Hawkeye's).

This would never have happened if you weren't constantly in danger of being warred whether by guys like LoR or Empire, or by noobs like US Navy Seals. So quite honestly, every time I see someone say, oh, you're killing my noobs, or you just wiped out my nation, I'm going to quit now, I think maybe its better for these players to quit. The less players we have with this type of mentality, the better in the long haul (if they don't quit, and they get warred again next year, won't they threaten to quit again?).

Magalya2
05-18-2010, 13:57
In my first post , i have been a little like a devil advocate for a few things bad bad me ::oops:

Sometime to push to the extreme bring reactions hehe

NW game is a forum community driving game somewhere and for me i was very happy to find such a great community when the game i come from have close :)

And true that we find in the forum the hard cores that have stick to the game and forum even in it's downfall after WoW close surely hoping for better days to come and it all honor you :)

And luckily Mr President is very close to NW members giving his heart for the game to make it work good and sometime it must be disheartened to read reactions or to see actions taken by few in the game that could possibly hurt it bad .

Grudges usually never bring good and true that with so many years being together in this game and forum , scars are there that can be hard to heal but with the community being smaller it become a MUST to make Peace and shake hands .

Leave on the side pre concepts and have FUN together playing a War game :)

For the newb i was and still is when i looked at the ''All State Scores '' and see the Top Netters , they become for me example and geee i would like to understand how they do so lol

I have much respect for them and if one is in my clan , with the ''View'' option , i am sure happy to be able to look at the way they build their State and i gave a look also at attacks they made without understanding how come they get so much lands with their attacks and not me :think:: :p

I would be ready to die for them if need be :)

I would not be too worry for newbies if a War breaks against the Clan they are in.

It is one crucial moment when leaders and vets in the clan they are in become even more teachers and supporters for them and depending on the attitude taken , can make the difference in sticking to the NW Game or leave

Each time there has been a War against the Nation i was in , it was time for me to ask ''What should i buy '' to help protect my State or to be more efficient in the War and my my How excited it can be :)

I do believe that when a State die and that we start a new one again , 100 turns is too low and i would like again to suggest that it increase to 200 turns at least making it more interesting to build back as fast as possible and be ready again to War ... and maybe die another time lol


I sure would like to see , like i have propose somewhere , the PINK thing identifying Terrorists in the ''All State Scores '' work and an option for anyone who would like too ,to War them till Death as they do a CRIME against the Nation War Lands .

A 1 turn cost per attack against Terrorists :p

Like we have Visits from Aliens bringing us surprise , if it was possible to code , i would propose to see Terrorist identify in Pinkautomatically ( if the suiciding is made using ''Illegal Spy Op '' if i can say so or ''Illegal AA , GA ,AR,BR ) since their actions were made in time of peace without any official War declaration .

It could happen when ever the Aliens would visit but at least their would be a possibility for everyone to know who they are and an Option to kill their State :D

Ohh and the ''Pink'' following them for the Set when they recreate a new State :p

Suiciding would become more ''At your own Risk and Peril '' and be punishable

Like they say : When we play with fire ... we burn lol

In an ideal world , there would not be any Terrorists actions but it seems it is hard to reach :rolleyes: lol

We all share the same Play Ground bringing our personality and style of play :)

Attitude , Mutual Respect do make a difference ;)

Lady Mags ☼

Dogma
05-18-2010, 15:26
In my first post , i have been a little like a devil advocate for a few things bad bad me ::oops:

Sometime to push to the extreme bring reactions hehe

NW game is a forum community driving game somewhere and for me i was very happy to find such a great community when the game i come from have close :)

And true that we find in the forum the hard cores that have stick to the game and forum even in it's downfall after WoW close surely hoping for better days to come and it all honor you :)

And luckily Mr President is very close to NW members giving his heart for the game to make it work good and sometime it must be disheartened to read reactions or to see actions taken by few in the game that could possibly hurt it bad .

Grudges usually never bring good and true that with so many years being together in this game and forum , scars are there that can be hard to heal but with the community being smaller it become a MUST to make Peace and shake hands .

Leave on the side pre concepts and have FUN together playing a War game :)

For the newb i was and still is when i looked at the ''All State Scores '' and see the Top Netters , they become for me example and geee i would like to understand how they do so lol

I have much respect for them and if one is in my clan , with the ''View'' option , i am sure happy to be able to look at the way they build their State and i gave a look also at attacks they made without understanding how come they get so much lands with their attacks and not me :think:: :p

I would be ready to die for them if need be :)

I would not be too worry for newbies if a War breaks against the Clan they are in.

It is one crucial moment when leaders and vets in the clan they are in become even more teachers and supporters for them and depending on the attitude taken , can make the difference in sticking to the NW Game or leave

Each time there has been a War against the Nation i was in , it was time for me to ask ''What should i buy '' to help protect my State or to be more efficient in the War and my my How excited it can be :)

I do believe that when a State die and that we start a new one again , 100 turns is too low and i would like again to suggest that it increase to 200 turns at least making it more interesting to build back as fast as possible and be ready again to War ... and maybe die another time lol


I sure would like to see , like i have propose somewhere , the PINK thing identifying Terrorists in the ''All State Scores '' work and an option for anyone who would like too ,to War them till Death as they do a CRIME against the Nation War Lands .

A 1 turn cost per attack against Terrorists :p

Like we have Visits from Aliens bringing us surprise , if it was possible to code , i would propose to see Terrorist identify in Pinkautomatically ( if the suiciding is made using ''Illegal Spy Op '' if i can say so or ''Illegal AA , GA ,AR,BR ) since their actions were made in time of peace without any official War declaration .

It could happen when ever the Aliens would visit but at least their would be a possibility for everyone to know who they are and an Option to kill their State :D

Ohh and the ''Pink'' following them for the Set when they recreate a new State :p

Suiciding would become more ''At your own Risk and Peril '' and be punishable

Like they say : When we play with fire ... we burn lol

In an ideal world , there would not be any Terrorists actions but it seems it is hard to reach :rolleyes: lol

We all share the same Play Ground bringing our personality and style of play :)

Attitude , Mutual Respect do make a difference ;)

Lady Mags ☼


Excellent post Lady Mags. Your insight impresses me.

totte
05-18-2010, 18:08
In my first post , i have been a little like a devil advocate for a few things bad bad me ::oops:

Sometime to push to the extreme bring reactions hehe

NW game is a forum community driving game somewhere and for me i was very happy to find such a great community when the game i come from have close :)

And true that we find in the forum the hard cores that have stick to the game and forum even in it's downfall after WoW close surely hoping for better days to come and it all honor you :)

And luckily Mr President is very close to NW members giving his heart for the game to make it work good and sometime it must be disheartened to read reactions or to see actions taken by few in the game that could possibly hurt it bad .

Grudges usually never bring good and true that with so many years being together in this game and forum , scars are there that can be hard to heal but with the community being smaller it become a MUST to make Peace and shake hands .

Leave on the side pre concepts and have FUN together playing a War game :)

For the newb i was and still is when i looked at the ''All State Scores '' and see the Top Netters , they become for me example and geee i would like to understand how they do so lol

I have much respect for them and if one is in my clan , with the ''View'' option , i am sure happy to be able to look at the way they build their State and i gave a look also at attacks they made without understanding how come they get so much lands with their attacks and not me :think:: :p

I would be ready to die for them if need be :)

I would not be too worry for newbies if a War breaks against the Clan they are in.

It is one crucial moment when leaders and vets in the clan they are in become even more teachers and supporters for them and depending on the attitude taken , can make the difference in sticking to the NW Game or leave

Each time there has been a War against the Nation i was in , it was time for me to ask ''What should i buy '' to help protect my State or to be more efficient in the War and my my How excited it can be :)

I do believe that when a State die and that we start a new one again , 100 turns is too low and i would like again to suggest that it increase to 200 turns at least making it more interesting to build back as fast as possible and be ready again to War ... and maybe die another time lol


I sure would like to see , like i have propose somewhere , the PINK thing identifying Terrorists in the ''All State Scores '' work and an option for anyone who would like too ,to War them till Death as they do a CRIME against the Nation War Lands .

A 1 turn cost per attack against Terrorists :p

Like we have Visits from Aliens bringing us surprise , if it was possible to code , i would propose to see Terrorist identify in Pinkautomatically ( if the suiciding is made using ''Illegal Spy Op '' if i can say so or ''Illegal AA , GA ,AR,BR ) since their actions were made in time of peace without any official War declaration .

It could happen when ever the Aliens would visit but at least their would be a possibility for everyone to know who they are and an Option to kill their State :D

Ohh and the ''Pink'' following them for the Set when they recreate a new State :p

Suiciding would become more ''At your own Risk and Peril '' and be punishable

Like they say : When we play with fire ... we burn lol

In an ideal world , there would not be any Terrorists actions but it seems it is hard to reach :rolleyes: lol

We all share the same Play Ground bringing our personality and style of play :)

Attitude , Mutual Respect do make a difference ;)

Lady Mags ☼

wise words as always ;)

kenshin44
05-18-2010, 18:51
The way I see it their is no solution to the problem, as we created the problem.

In this game when war is waged by one party the party waging the war is the one having fun. The other nation which is being warred forcefully has no choice but to engage in war or sit down and take it.

The mentality in WoW was that if I got warred I'd make certain the nation that tried to mess with me dies.

But honestly the problem in NW is trying to justify that war is wrong, and a nation committing this act has nothing to lose so might as well not fight. And I'm being honest this is the viewpoint most nations have these days. If a nation is outnumbered and can't win they will quit.

I think all these problems of war driving away players is man made, and a internal problem.

Think back to the days of WoW, wars were waged without any reasons we were all noobs at some point too, and all vets have faced war but why I have we played through it?

My first war experience was with Kanman and Devil in which i was just a member, I died in that war but due to the motivation of the leaders that oh we will get them back this war we won't lose I stayed.

Leaders need to learn that this game has surprise factors and war is a part of it. They can't show to their members that all hope is lost just forget it everything you did is gone cause we got warred by strong active warmongers.


The longer we keep denying the fact that war is naturally part of this game the more and more players will resent to play it.

If I am a new leader with new members I have the greatest opportunity to mold these players to help the tag, but if i myself lose hope in my nation in the battlefield what will these new players be looking up to?

In my view war is what brings a nation together. Honestly what other things do you do with your nation members at a set time. Being able to joke and chat and strike together, that's what makes this game good.

Netting is good for some down time in which you want to just rank high and its more individually based.

People need to understand the basis of a nation is for protection of your fellow players and tag, people need to learn to be proud of their tag and to defend it when attacked, and to always be their for your fellow member. It's not about just ranking up in a nation in which you never talk to the leader or players.

War unites! Netting Doesn't!

Problem arises when a nation is in Netting mode and doesn't switch to War mode as they haven't formed that mentality of united we stand. Which is why a lot of nations even after war have numerous players just doing their own business not meeting up with their nation leaders/members for strikes. If your in the habit of playing for yourself and not playing actually for your nation than your nation is bound to fail and your bound to lose players in nation and game.

I know I play for LoR, not this game. The players I play with in this tag keep me around.

If the tag was unable to form that unity than I would have no fun playing.


So to sum everything up, war killing this game is a myth. The reason if any that it does kill the game is because you justify the fact that war is bad and it ruins a nation.

In reality it should unify a nation.

MarineRecon
05-18-2010, 19:07
this game def needs to get sum wars back into it from all nations...i agree netting is good for occasional breaks when warring gets boring all the time...when i started in UAAF back in 2003 i think warring just happened for the hell of it...i would die and be like wtf just happened imma get that bastard and it was fun tryin to figure out wut im doin and gettin on for strikes...then i became a leader later on and started with the defensive pacts and allies which i think is a big part of the game as well...it makes the nation more active and together so next set im gonna try bein a lil more active and do sum recruiting like old times

Soviet Russia
05-19-2010, 04:51
dont mess with the spy ops:glare: instead buy some 5-6 mil spies, that'll solve everything.

Magalya2
05-19-2010, 11:03
lol Why was i sure to see you appear Soviet Russia :rolleyes:

lol

Soviet Russia
05-19-2010, 13:15
lol Why was i sure to see you appear Soviet Russia :rolleyes:

lol

Jedi tricks? :p

Magalya2
05-19-2010, 14:36
Must be that SR :p lol

BladeEWG
05-20-2010, 08:34
Killing countries;
To me there are only 2 logical ways to kill a country.
Take out all the population or take all the land.

Air attacks(jets and bombers) can take out a larger % of pop and buildings
ground attacks(troops) can take out max % but only pop
tanks and ships take out only buildings

Destroying all of someones buildings doesn't seem to make sense as a kill blow to me.That wouldcertainly cripple a country, but if they have stashed cash, why shouldn't they be allowed to try to work to save themselves by rebuilding or making some grabs to get back ?

GDN protection; This could be firmed up to prevent countries that are 20 times larger reaching down to rape smaller countries. 50% sems workable if it is enforced.
In "that other game" there was a "humanatarian rule" This prevented anyone attacking a country less then 10% of the attackers nw. This made war chats a bit more of a challenge in co ordinating breakers and involved the smaller countrys of the attackers nation more so they could finish some kills.

Drop land;
In the destroy option, add drop land. Since land is such a commodity here then allow those that wish to drop land they don't want. Nothing can p@ss off a bottom feeder more then knowing someone took their land just to drop it in spite.
Fo another example, as a restart I've started grabbing already, but I don't need or want the land. I just want to make our attackers not have it.
Unfortunately, that land I am now stuck with will be certainly taken back by them or someone else(oh well)

War;
there will always be the "we warred you because we were bored" I'm sure that was not invented here by LoR.
However. if countries are at war, then common sense would say the other tags should stay clear of it.Unless thse tags also declare war.
This also plays into the "drop land" I'm sure other tags will find my excessive land attractive here and I will be a "target of opportunity" for them.

Missiles, the great equalizer , bring them on!

Soviet Russia
05-20-2010, 12:06
we also have a similar rule, if you try to attack a very small state, people of your state protests :(

BeeNo
05-20-2010, 12:16
blade i think your still looking at land in comparison to earth. when your a restart or any type of state for that matter in a war, the advantage of having high land is that it takes more attacks to be killed. unless you have 10-15k land right now, its unlikely that lor states will get much land from you threw standard attacks, and thats the only land they'll keep.

land dropping used to be common in wars, this was removed because people could be crippled so easily aka a suiciders dream. and because it cuts a big chunk out of the total land in the game.

someone could correct me if i'm wrong about why land dropping was removed or if i forgot a reason.

Max Logan
05-20-2010, 13:15
warring was too easy

AA - landdrop most of the targets land - some ARs - job done

BladeEWG
05-20-2010, 21:01
we also have a similar rule, if you try to attack a very small state, people of your state protests :(

then whats that %?
I ask because this 2 mil guy started on me a day out of protection.

Bright
05-21-2010, 15:14
The mentality has definitely changed, I remember my first set in WoW was warring against SSC and Royals as a TNR newb. It was myself, Artos, and maybe 2-3 other buddies of his. Of course, we all died, but I managed to get my first kill by getting TGO's restart, haha.

I did a couple sets of noob style warring to jump in the fire so to speak- squashed like a bug both times, but I still had fun figuring the game out, plus my leader and teammates were very active and vocal about getting me involved. When it came to war, even if we knew we were like ants, we were gonna bite the hell out of whomever as long as we could.

Over time, there were the big alliances, the 50+member nations, the titanic alliances, and nations gradually came and went. Along with those that went (including the fluff censor) were many of the people who enjoyed warring, and the game took on a more peaceful approach.

I enjoy my breaks here and there, but doing too much of one or another does get boring. The mentality has really changed, a lot of us (including myself at various points where I didn't have the time to lead a war at all) as leaders have thrown in the towel when being warred by LoR/WLF/whomever.

Dunno, I guess now I feel like things need to really be varied because for many of us old old players, its the same old same old, especially since our playerbase and play styles have stagnated so much. I really welcome the changes that have been made recently, and would like to continue to see more experiments and ways to make the game work with what we have.

Throwing ideas out here:

For those who want to do nothing but net, perhaps being able to join a mercantile union as a state who supplies units for the market could be an idea, though it would need to come at a cost (such as not being able to SA, higher tax rates, or something to prevent people from getting out without a scratch). Mercantile states could solicit orders in the forums for nations/vice-versa, and then would produce science/army to fill these orders. I wouldn't implement it at a state level though. Perhaps this could be used for UN member nations needing more than what the PM may have at any given time due to war/scarcity.

Army balance- to prevent whoring and encourage balanced/war ready armies, during peaceful conditions, states could be required to maintain a set percentage of ground/air/intel units to discourage suiciders, but while reducing the ability to hoard infantry. If you want to make things dicey (this needs to be thought out more of course), make a counterpart to the pink suicider label- this could be used to indicate states who are lacking in a particular area of defense. While it could tip off suiciders, it could also serve as a basic layer of intel for people who are wondering just how war ready other states could be at a glance without using spies.

War randoms- while at war with enemy nations, random events such as a breach in ground defenses, seizure of merchant vessels, undetected drone bombings, cyber warfare, or EMP bombs could target states who have too little of a particular type of defense. These randoms would occur at the same rate of normal randoms, but only are active during war.

I still feel the other units need to be made viable, or at the very least, use a market bot for the unused units- its one thing to not want to use the units at all, but another when you decide to use em, but never can find any on market.

There's more, but I forgot, this is enough meat to chew on for a bit anyways.

In closing, we're all creatures of habit, we have to be willing and ready to start going outside the box, or we'll continue to slowly die off.