Consequences of cheating

[::LD::GrimReapr]

What are the current consequences of cheating?
First offense second offense so on and so on?

[Divine Intervention]

What are the current consequences of cheating?
First offense second offense so on and so on?

your name on forum goes PINK.
WHAT A DETERRENT :closedeyes:

[::LD::GrimReapr]

I think after you have been caught cheating several times.:thumbdown: Maybe its time for a BAN since you cant abide by the rules you shouldn't be able to play.:vangry:That's just my personal opinion anyone else feeling this way please let it known.:wall:

[Crimson Shadow]

I think something a little more than a pink name and deleted state needs to be added. Not as harsh as a ban since we are hurting for members, but we need something more. If it is a constant issue then i think a ban might need to be warranted. If anyone else has a consequence to add, post it and ill add to list.


List of possibilities

- Loss of Premium (if applicable)
- Loss of all forum credits
- 5-10 day waiting period before new state can be created

[Divine Intervention]

I think something a little more than a pink name and deleted state needs to be added. Not as harsh as a ban since we are hurting for members, but we need something more. If it is a constant issue then i think a ban might need to be warranted. If anyone else has a consequence to add, post it and ill add to list.


List of possibilities

- Loss of Premium (if applicable)
- Loss of all forum credits
- 5-10 day waiting period before new state can be created

The irony of this is the fact that cheaters make legitimate players, which the
community needs so desperately - quit, whilst they themselves are allowed to
remain in the community.

[MAGGIO]

How about something more physical...

When a cheater is found out, nothing is said, and then when they log in the game server downloads 50 of the latest damaging viruses onto that cheaters computer.

Problem is that is illegal :(

[Tnova]

It is impossible to ban anyone because the internet allows anonymity. There is no face or real identity with any account/IP and banning an account/IP is just a false sense of security. I'm not for false sense of securities.

The method mocked in the post by Anton may be unsatisfactory to people who don't understand what goes on, but there is a method and reason in how we do things and it has worked so far.

I'm not naive enough to say we are 100% free of cheaters, but we put in 100% effort into making sure that is the case.

[MAGGIO]

It is impossible to ban anyone because the internet allows anonymity. There is no face or real identity with any account/IP and banning an account/IP is just a false sense of security. I'm not for false sense of securities.

The method mocked in the post by Anton may be unsatisfactory to people who don't understand what goes on, but there is a method and reason in how we do things and it has worked so far.

I'm not naive enough to say we are 100% free of cheaters, but we put in 100% effort into making sure that is the case.

I didnt think you would say as much as you did....I sure didnt want to be the one to say it.

the good thing is the watch dog is able to catch more instances of cheating than ever before to that I say good freaking job.

the other good thing is that it is much harder to cheat than it ever was in WOW, to that I say good freaking job.

[Divine Intervention]

It is impossible to ban anyone because the internet allows anonymity. There is no face or real identity with any account/IP and banning an account/IP is just a false sense of security. I'm not for false sense of securities.

The method mocked in the post by Anton may be unsatisfactory to people who don't understand what goes on, but there is a method and reason in how we do things and it has worked so far.

I'm not naive enough to say we are 100% free of cheaters, but we put in 100% effort into making sure that is the case.

im not mocking the method used so much as the logic in Bretts post that we "dont want to use harsh methods because we need the members". I am well
aware of the difficulties of banning people who use multies especially if they are good at it. i know that you guys manage to catch most cheaters eventually
and props to you, you are doing a good job. but that doesn't stop them from doing same **** next round. so whilst the suicided players quit the cheating goes on.

[::LD::GrimReapr]

First let me say I Appreciate the job you and MR.P do TNova.
I just get angry that for the most part good players are getting the short end of the stick while trying to do their best by suiciders and cheaters messing up their set.

[Tnova]

I'm glad people care enough to get angry and i certainly welcome people expressing their frustrations. Few sets back this was a hot topic for the Dev. team with the Admins and Dev team worked up a good workable punishment. A lot of the things aren't spelled out in the public forum because the more the enemy knows, the better they can go about their business.


I think i speak for everyone, as a staff member, when I say we are open to suggestions and are always looking for ways to improve.

[Crimson Shadow]

The irony of this is the fact that cheaters make legitimate players, which the
community needs so desperately - quit, whilst they themselves are allowed to
remain in the community.

What I meant by that was, if something other than a ban would deter them from cheating then we use that measure first not just jump straight to banning the person. If it was a one time thing, or an accident, I would hate to lose a member because of it. Now like I said, if its a constant cheater then yes I feel a ban should be issued.

[Mr President]

I know you all are getting tired of the suiciders, i am too... If you look back, i have made several posts on suggestions that we could do as a quick fix for this problem, but each one was voted out. The majority of the members didn't want admins to intervene. At this time, there is nothing else we can do.

Every set i take this whole situation very seriously and i am constantly nagging people with ideas, or for them to help come up with some. We are making progress, just not as fast as you would like. This is not a easy task to deal with, and we have to make sure we take our time.

I will not and can't go into any details on how we do things now. I have added a lot of new ways to catch cheaters, which is why each set there are always some listed :thumbup: Some people feel the need to keep testing and pushing.


The very first thing we need to address and agree on is the definition of what a suicider is. Once we have that, then we have a starting point. Once we have that, then suiciding will be against the rules.. And once it's against the rules, then we can start a proper punishment system.

It's a step by step process.. But please know, we are working on it and it is not something we just turn the other cheek to when it happens.

[Shabaz K]

how about label there states as cheaters for three sets like in forum

[Dogma]

if it from that uni, ban their IP, something has to be done
I don't care if we lose one or 2 innocents players as it is rampant in the nation they are in,they can't be that stupid to know that it isn't going on, Knowing about cheating and not reporting it is just as guilty as cheating themselves.


LOR CHEATS! set after set after set, why is that so hard to figure out? They talk a good game but it is all bull crap, they have no intention of changing so why would anyone believe them. They say they want to "be good members" but then every set they have most of the cheaters declared in THEIR nation, yeah that shows change.


I am about fed up with the whole **** thing.

[Shabaz K]

i hear you dogma, but loe has alot to lose also, when thers no players comng to the game adn they kick everyone out, they wont have much left, even i do thing they know who the cheaters are

[Divine Intervention]

i hear you dogma, but loe has alot to lose also, when thers no players comng to the game adn they kick everyone out, they wont have much left, even i do thing they know who the cheaters are

wrong. when this happens and when all top players have quit LoR can finally
net and win sets :)

[Shabaz K]

how about you give them yuor players:w00t:

[Divine Intervention]

how about you give them yuor players:w00t:

im sure their answer will be : Death before Dishonour.

[-Z-]

What if instead of banning cheaters...

We leave them their account... But if it is someone that has done it before....

Give them a penalty.

Like say a person is caught cheating... and u know the person desrves a penalty... but u can not ban them, cuz they can just make a new account...

This account could:

A) Not be allowed to use war attacks (At all) for X amount of sets.

B) Get a 1% penalty (give or take) on all market sales and purchases.

C) Not be allowed to use Global events to search for grabs.



Maybe this is a bad idea... im just throwing it out there...

Z

[Dogma]

At least it is something punitive. May not be the best idea, but something needs to be done.

[Shabaz K]

lol z tose are harsh penalties but they may owrk either makes the cheater qiute or loosens up and chages hwo he plays.


i still think or the first offence theere staes get labeled cheater besides there name when playing for atleast couple of sets

[MAGGIO]

then they just make a multi and play with it instead of their original account.

The only thing I think they may have is there friends and co-members. To effect them would be a harsh punishment.

[Shabaz K]

get tehm to play with dogma thenlol

[MAGGIO]

I know you all are getting tired of the suiciders, i am too... If you look back, i have made several posts on suggestions that we could do as a quick fix for this problem, but each one was voted out. The majority of the members didn't want admins to intervene. At this time, there is nothing else we can do.

Every set i take this whole situation very seriously and i am constantly nagging people with ideas, or for them to help come up with some. We are making progress, just not as fast as you would like. This is not a easy task to deal with, and we have to make sure we take our time.

I will not and can't go into any details on how we do things now. I have added a lot of new ways to catch cheaters, which is why each set there are always some listed :thumbup: Some people feel the need to keep testing and pushing.


The very first thing we need to address and agree on is the definition of what a suicider is. Once we have that, then we have a starting point. Once we have that, then suiciding will be against the rules.. And once it's against the rules, then we can start a proper punishment system.

It's a step by step process.. But please know, we are working on it and it is not something we just turn the other cheek to when it happens.

If you would like to lend a hand defining suiciders please do so. Make sure you read the rules in the first post.

Here is the link
http://forums.nation-wars.com/showthread.php?t=3565

[Shabaz K]

one more thing i dont want suicide being taken away or anytihng done it so its hard, just the cheating part

[Divine Intervention]

one more thing i dont want suicide being taken away or anytihng done it so its hard, just the cheating part

and make it so that suiciders cant use the anonymity the game offers to do
what they want. Perhaps, some coding where by as soon as a state does
offensive spy ops/war attacks, its leaders name changes to the accounts
forum name? this would allow people who like to hide (for safety reasons)
the ability to hide but at same time make people think twice about how
they use the war attacks :thumbdown:

[-Z-]

Wait...

maybe we are looking at this the wrong way...

This might be a much better Idea... :

Ok, people Like me, Maggio, Dogma, Kanman, Jameswheel, Anton, and many other (some that do not poston forums)]many of us Love to net, and or war...

Now me personally... I would love any advantage that was given to me... for loyalty.

If say.. a person plays x number of sets without incident, perhaps we should reward them with some sort of minor advantage ingame...?

(it could be taken away if things go sour)


back in a bit.


Z

[-Z-]

ok 12 hours later im back.

ok what I was thinking...

We all like small advantages... And if I had an advantage that I enjoyed, I would not want to give it up.

Now its the type of advantage that is important to decide upon...

here are some off the top of my head ideas, some might be ok, others not:

(this would be for an individual account, granted after a few months of loyal play, without incident of cheating, or perhaps suicideing as well) I will start with some of the more meaningless ideas I have, and progress to more real advantages:


-greater Global events privs (perhaps seeing over 72 hours, or viewing spy ops as well)

-some sort of honerable title ingame (perhaps a bolded name)

-A greater amount of nation changes per set

-A slight BM advantage (slightly better buying or selling prices from BM 5% maybe)

-a NA advantage. Allow for an extra 1-5% NA support, allowing up to 55%

-/turn income increase, upkeep decrease (allow a slight bonus on upkeep for a reward for beign good)

-extra turns (get a few bonus turns per day)

-PM privs (be able to see what good are coming to PM over next hour?)

-Auto upgrades - have spys upgraded to lv 3 or 4 at the begining of game






these are just ideas... some of these "Perks" I would enjoy for sure... and I would not want to risk suicideing or cheating to loose them.

Z

[MAGGIO]

how about if you get caught you cannot

create or join a nation for three months

[DBozMen]

in my opinion the admins are way to easy on the cheating part.

At this moment you can cheat and then you get your state deleted. Right after that you can create a new account to go and rape some elses set. Where does this end?

I'm pro-permanent banning, because all those extra things are nice but not that effective.

[Mr President]

And how do we perm ban someone?

Trust me, i was just like all of you before i became the admin. I too wanted all cheaters gone.. But now i see the whole picture.

Like i said, this is being worked on. but i must say, it's about time some of you have come around to see this as a major problem. Look back at prior posts where i was all but jumping up and down saying we need to do something about it and most of you said, it's part of the game and we just need to deal with it..


carma! :P

[Calvin74]

i gotta say i am with pres on this
it is more on the community as a whole that excepts cheating
i look in lor for instance and a lot of their top players are/were marked cheaters in either nw or wow and yet they are still prominent nation leaders or big parts of the nation



also a good cheater can't be perma banned yes you can ban their name but they will just create another
you can ban their ip and it is easy to get another
you can ban proxies but then no one can play from work or school

you act like mr pres is allowing cheating but what exactly can he do to stop them?

[Divine Intervention]

rollbacks on states that were affected by cheaters? if no roll backs are done whats to stop anyone from making a huge amount of multies (im still a bit confused at how runbochs multi used 1k turns and only got deleted after the suicide) and suiciding everyone?