View Full Version : Abortion
from the Daily show:
Lets face it... We have a severe lack of hungry, poor, deformed, and single parents kids in America. its time to stop this madness of abortion!
Women in America are running a health SCAM on us.
Women Love abortions, and will do anything to get one!
The later the Better.
hemorrhages, sever Uteran infections, Dieing.
Enough with the Whining about Rape and incest, we are on to you ladies, thoese are not a golden ticket to the abortion factory.
Its due time that someone like John McCain brought this issue to air.
now Reasonable people can disagree about abortion, but agree on the unimportance of womens health.
I'm sure if John McCain was raped, he too would...
Z
I thought you were against murder and stuff?
I thought you were against murder and stuff?
indeed I am, of people.
But I am not against womens health.
Z
Aborted babies were people until they were murdered.
nNiIcCkKoO
10-29-2008, 21:19
You could not contradict yourself any more.
To be against murder you would be against abortion. But you are FOR womens rights, so therefore you are FOR abortion and FOR murder.
ooga booga
10-29-2008, 21:24
You could not contradict yourself any more.
To be against murder you would be against abortion. But you are FOR womens rights, so therefore you are FOR abortion and FOR murder.
Good post, I agree. :thumbup: In some cases there should be an exception, if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, that is not her fault and in extreme cases like this I think there is some justification. Otherwise, it is murder plain and simple.
Good post, I agree. :thumbup: In some cases there should be an exception, if a woman is raped and becomes pregnant, that is not her fault and in extreme cases like this I think there is some justification. Otherwise, it is murder plain and simple.
If a female is raped, why sentence the child to death and let the father serve 5 years in jail?
If a female is raped, why sentence the child to death and let the father serve 5 years in jail?
The father should be castrated.
I agree with Abortion in cases of Rape, incest, and if the mothers life is in peril.
otherwise there should be no choice. You can not play god.
women who are not responsible should be held responsible.
I do not support abortion for fluffs sake, But I do not agree with banning it.
It should be available for those who need it.
Z
The father should be castrated.
I agree with Abortion in cases of Rape, incest, and if the mothers life is in peril.
otherwise there should be no choice. You can not play god.
women who are not responsible should be held responsible.
I do not support abortion for fluffs sake, But I do not agree with banning it.
It should be available for those who need it.
Z
So you agree that the child should be given the death penalty and all the father should recieve as far as punishment goes is castration?
And you are correct, you cannot play God. That means the doctors and mother have no choice. Whatever happens, happens and those two shouldn't interfere. ;)
So you agree that the child should be given the death penalty and all the father should recieve as far as punishment goes is castration?
And you are correct, you cannot play God. That means the doctors and mother have no choice. Whatever happens, happens and those two shouldn't interfere. ;)
(even tho you seem to not answer alot of my questions in detail GREEN)
This whole refute is assuming the idea that a person is "brought into existance" upon conception, and that a growing baby is a person by legal rights something like 7 hours after intercourse.
Castration, and jail time, perhaps even death... I do not support death penalty for anyone tho...
Castration would be quite the punishment tho.
Now as for the child...
We as humans are intelligent mammals, what seperates us from other mammals is our ability to question, our morality, our ethical code, our emotions (or so we think).
So... a basic tenant of humanity is the fact that we exist in conscious state outside of any other form of life, and our perception allows us to see that.
So why do you value one persons life over another?
why is the babies Life worth more than that of the mothers?
Ultimately the mother decides.
When a woman decided to use the morning after pill is this also murder?
What if the mother would kill herself before giving birth to the baby... ?
Or a more mild consequence would be the mother living the rest of her life with a constant reminder of the rape...
How does the mother not have any choice in the matter, when she is the one giving life, and bearing the child...?
And why does the man who Raped get to make all the decisions? Is that Gods hand? God Chooses Rape?
I am finding myself disturbed just thinking about this...
Blah, i need a break...
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 00:38
Everything happens for a reason. That is all I am going to say.
Everything happens for a reason. That is all I am going to say.
so If I were to say choose right now to do somthing, for example:
Slap your you in the face
Run around the block
Write an essay
or any other number of things I might CHOOSE to do right now, or in 10 minutes, or 10 days from now...
There is reason for all of it?
It would seem the reason a woman is raped is because the man wanted to do it.
Yes there was a reason, but was it a good reason?
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 00:54
In my belief God put us all on Earth. But what we do with our lives is entirely up to us. If God is real he will take note of this on 'judgement day' but until then he is merely a third party.
My point is that a child is a gift from God. Why should it matter how it is given to you? If the story of Jesus is true, essentially Mary was raped by God, if you want to put it that way. As she was a virgin and was fell pregnant to a person she was not aware of (much like a rapist). What I am saying is that God gave the woman the child for a reason, and if he didn't want her to fall pregnant he would of decided that.
Take it as a miracle rather than a burden.
In my belief God put us all on Earth. But what we do with our lives is entirely up to us. If God is real he will take note of this on 'judgement day' but until then he is merely a third party.
My point is that a child is a gift from God. Why should it matter how it is given to you? If the story of Jesus is true, essentially Mary was raped by God, if you want to put it that way. As she was a virgin and was fell pregnant to a person she was not aware of (much like a rapist). What I am saying is that God gave the woman the child for a reason, and if he didn't want her to fall pregnant he would of decided that.
Take it as a miracle rather than a burden.
indeed... The Miracle of Rape...
You have inspired me to go out and commit Rape to women across the land,
Giving them all the miracle of life!
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 01:41
Your immaturity really does show.
I did not condone rape. But there is no guarantee that if you are raped you will fall pregnant. God obviously decided that you were priviliged to become pregnant. So take it as a gift, rather than a burden. Always look on the positives in life, instead of the negatives.
Think about all those poor women in society who are unable to become pregnant. How do you think they feel about other women terminating their pregnancy? Such women would give anything to become pregnant. Why should one woman have the right to murder a child and the other never have the right to have a child.
Your immaturity really does show.
I did not condone rape. But there is no guarantee that if you are raped you will fall pregnant. God obviously decided that you were priviliged to become pregnant. So take it as a gift, rather than a burden. Always look on the positives in life, instead of the negatives.
Think about all those poor women in society who are unable to become pregnant. How do you think they feel about other women terminating their pregnancy? Such women would give anything to become pregnant. Why should one woman have the right to murder a child and the other never have the right to have a child.
I know a girl (woman now) who is infertile, and She believes in Abortion.
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 01:58
And why doesnt it suprise me that you two know each other?
Take a dose of reality for once, stop trying to antagonise people mate. It's not going to make you any friends. Think about it, you only get one life, so whats the point in living it negatively? Make the most of every chance you get, because before you know it your life is over and you will regret all the time you have wasted.
Its not a good thing no.
but we have the choice to control our own destiny.
If a woman and her baby are going to die because the pregnancy is complicated, and the woman can save her life with an abortion, then what is your answer?
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 02:00
The answer is let God decide. God ultimately decides when we all die, as he created us all. If God is ready for you to return to him then no matter what you do, you will die as he decides.
As cruel as it sounds, it is fate.
And why doesnt it suprise me that you two know each other?
Take a dose of reality for once, stop trying to antagonise people mate. It's not going to make you any friends. Think about it, you only get one life, so whats the point in living it negatively? Make the most of every chance you get, because before you know it your life is over and you will regret all the time you have wasted.
I will not regret the time I have spent debating.
How can you suggest that any discussion is a waste of time, especially for someone educated in philosophy, interested in a career in medicine or journalism?
Do you ever judge yourself instead of others?
How about you stop trying to control other peoples lives, and start to realize the reality of science.
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 02:05
There is no reality to science. You are not debating either, you just get a kick out of winding people up. Seriously, look at every topic you make.
The answer is let God decide. God ultimately decides when we all die, as he created us all. If God is ready for you to return to him then no matter what you do, you will die as he decides.
As cruel as it sounds, it is fate.
there is no fate
I am god
You are god
We are all god.
all Spirit and life is god.
and we all make choices as individuals.
If I decide to do anything at any given time yes it is gods choice, because I am god.
If you decide to do something then that is also gods choice, because yours is the decision of god.
there is not fate
You should study the theory of relativity & string theory,
either that or go sit in a corner with your bible and be ignorant.
Z
There is no reality to science. You are not debating either, you just get a kick out of winding people up. Seriously, look at every topic you make.
most of the topics I make are about issues, like this one.
Whatever "kick" u might get about anything, u can keep it.
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 02:10
Your belief is different to mine, and that is how it ends...
Your belief is different to mine, and that is how it ends...
Agreed
Z
This whole refute is assuming the idea that a person is "brought into existance" upon conception, and that a growing baby is a person by legal rights something like 7 hours after intercourse.
Leviticus 17:11 says For the life of the flesh is in the blood,
A fetus is infused with blood 18 days after conception.
When do abortions occur? ;)
Its not a good thing no.
but we have the choice to control our own destiny.
If a woman and her baby are going to die because the pregnancy is complicated, and the woman can save her life with an abortion, then what is your answer?
Z
I'm sorry, but as a parent (if I had kids) I would give my life for my child's, unborn or not.
If you are a parent and you disagree, then you are perhaps the most selfish individual on the Earth and no one cares what you think. :P
Leviticus 17:11 says For the life of the flesh is in the blood,
A fetus is infused with blood 18 days after conception.
When do abortions occur? ;)
I'm sorry, but as a parent (if I had kids) I would give my life for my child's, unborn or not.
If you are a parent and you disagree, then you are perhaps the most selfish individual on the Earth and no one cares what you think. :P
I have given up on this, perhaps another day I will be in the mood to debate it again
Z
Pfft, you can't debate the truth.
;)
There is no reality to science. You are not debating either, you just get a kick out of winding people up. Seriously, look at every topic you make.
"There is no reality to science"? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 19:47
It makes perfect sense. Science is a thing we, as humans, created. Does God, at any stage in the Bible, mention the word science?
Science is simply a way for people to have an answer to everything. People throw around 'big bang theories' and what not. But if the world was created by a big bang originating in space, then how was space created in the first place?
Science can not answer that, and until it can all it's theories mean nothing in practice. When you want an answer for any question, you can find it. But does that make it true? No.
And if god created the world, who created god?
God did not write the bible, Man did. It is by no means infalliable. You cannot possibly equate empirical evidence with religious doctrine.
It makes perfect sense. Science is a thing we, as humans, created. Does God, at any stage in the Bible, mention the word science?
Science is simply a way for people to have an answer to everything. People throw around 'big bang theories' and what not. But if the world was created by a big bang originating in space, then how was space created in the first place?
Science can not answer that, and until it can all it's theories mean nothing in practice. When you want an answer for any question, you can find it. But does that make it true? No.
the theory of relativity means nothing in practice?
...
Why did god not allow us this basic knowledge in our nature?
Why would he write his wishes in a text?
Christianity is Immoral.
Another question I have is:
On the first bible was the Author stated on the title:
By: GOD
Copyright: The begining of time.
Z
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 20:16
Why did you both dodge my question?
Why can't science explain what created space? Why can't science explain why people have emotions and feelings that cannot be described? Where does our conscience come from? There is so much science can not explain nor prove.
Why does science have theories? Why can't they all be practical. In theory you can make anything work, in theory I can fly. But in practice I can't.
Science is vastly more "practical" than religion. The Bible is nothing more than one massive theory book, when it comes to explaining the world's creation. It doesn't account for the dinosaurs, or their extinction. Emotions and feelings are biological impulses intended to further our survival.
You don't offer a shred of evidence as to why religion is superior.
It makes perfect sense. Science is a thing we, as humans, created. Does God, at any stage in the Bible, mention the word science?
Science is simply a way for people to have an answer to everything. People throw around 'big bang theories' and what not. But if the world was created by a big bang originating in space, then how was space created in the first place?
Science can not answer that, and until it can all it's theories mean nothing in practice. When you want an answer for any question, you can find it. But does that make it true? No.
It does not mention science because it was written before the time of science, By Men.
Perhaps space and time was created from a black hole in another universe, leading to ours.
I do not know, and I am not arrogant and desperate enough to believe something that I do not understand.
My theory is as Likely as yours.
Z
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 20:44
I strongly agree Z, any one of us could be right.
But science is a man made creation. I don't suggest that religion is superior, but to say that science is more practical than religion is an utter lie. As I said before, we can ask ourselves a question about anything and always find an answer, that doesnt make it true but.
You can't prove science, nor can I prove religion.
Divine Intervention
10-30-2008, 20:48
Why did you both dodge my question?
Why can't science explain what created space? Why can't science explain why people have emotions and feelings that cannot be described? Where does our conscience come from? There is so much science can not explain nor prove.
Why does science have theories? Why can't they all be practical. In theory you can make anything work, in theory I can fly. But in practice I can't.
but you sure as hell can get a good trip convincing you that you are :smoke:
I strongly agree Z, any one of us could be right.
But science is a man made creation. I don't suggest that religion is superior, but to say that science is more practical than religion is an utter lie. As I said before, we can ask ourselves a question about anything and always find an answer, that doesnt make it true but.
You can't prove science, nor can I prove religion.
But all religion is is the science of yesterday.
how can u say religion is as practical as science?
Is crucifiction more pratciacal than medicine?
Is Praying more practical than chemistry?
How can I build an engine, a plane, electricity with reliable ol' religion?
Z
I strongly agree Z, any one of us could be right.
But science is a man made creation. I don't suggest that religion is superior, but to say that science is more practical than religion is an utter lie. As I said before, we can ask ourselves a question about anything and always find an answer, that doesnt make it true but.
You can't prove science, nor can I prove religion.
religion of any kind is every bit as man made as science. There is no proof whatsoever of the existence of god. He is every bit as theoretical as the "Big Bang" If I drop a lump of potassium into a bowl of water it will react and flare up. Is this because it's some kind of magical rock, or is it because of scientific principles? The latter is far more plausible.
In the words of the late Arthur C Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
Religion sufficed to explain the world when humans were too primitive to understand otherwise. Ever since then it has been science that led the way.
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 21:00
If my faith is correct.
Everything that happens is a result of God himself. So that is the practicality of religion.
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 21:02
religion of any kind is every bit as man made as science. There is no proof whatsoever of the existence of god. He is every bit as theoretical as the "Big Bang" If I drop a lump of potassium into a bowl of water it will react and flare up. Is this because it's some kind of magical rock, or is it because of scientific principles? The latter is far more plausible.
In the words of the late Arthur C Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
Religion sufficed to explain the world when humans were too primitive to understand otherwise. Ever since then it has been science that led the way.
I understand and agree. But look further into it.
Where did that potassium come from in the first place? Where did everything originate from? Who decided that potassium and water would react?
There is a lot of if's and but's in the world, and neither science nor religion can explain that. That is why I have faith in God.
Faith is by it's very nature impractical.
It doesn't account for the dinosaurs, or their extinction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan
How to disprove the big bang theory:
Take a can of soda. Sit grenade on soda. Detonate grenade. Wait for can of soda to form.
If it doesn't happen, then the big bang theory was a nice story.
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 21:07
Look, if your not willing to open your eyes past your narrow minded views Will, I have nothing left to say to you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan
How to disprove the big bang theory:
Take a can of soda. Sit grenade on soda. Detonate grenade. Wait for can of soda to form.
If it doesn't happen, then the big bang theory was a nice story.
If you waited for several billion years, for all you know the soda might well form.
Expecting it to happen in 10 minutes won't work:P
Leviathan and Behemoth account for two creatures. What of the others?
Look, if your not willing to open your eyes past your narrow minded views Will, I have nothing left to say to you.
An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded.
So you're saying that faith is PRACTICAL?
What is practical about waiting for someone you don't know even exists to sort everything out for you? this is the basis of religion "don't misbehave too badly and God will sort everything out after you die" It is nothing more than a tool to control people, who are too afraid to consider the consequences of death.
If you waited for several billion years, for all you know the soda might well form.
Expecting it to happen in 10 minutes won't work:P
Leviathan and Behemoth account for two creatures. What of the others?
Ah, but its on a different scale. If you scaled the universe down, the soda should prolly form back into a soda in a few weeks to months.
A general term perhaps?
:P
nNiIcCkKoO
10-30-2008, 21:18
Science can't explain a lot of things. You just are too scared to believe in God. Even though so many people on this Earth do?
We didn't just come out of nowhere.
Divine Intervention
10-30-2008, 21:24
An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded.
So you're saying that faith is PRACTICAL?
What is practical about waiting for someone you don't know even exists to sort everything out for you? this is the basis of religion "don't misbehave too badly and God will sort everything out after you die" It is nothing more than a tool to control people, who are too afraid to consider the consequences of death.
Is that a Warhammer quote/reference? from the game Mark of Chaos by any chance? or Dawn of War?
Science can't explain a lot of things. You just are too scared to believe in God. Even though so many people on this Earth do?
We didn't just come out of nowhere.
Why would I be afraid to believe in god? Science does not offer me any kind of comfort whatsoever. As far as it is concerned, when I die I become food for the worms. I don't go to any kind of afterlife.
Atheists by definition are far less afraid than Theists.
Is that a Warhammer quote/reference? from the game Mark of Chaos by any chance? or Dawn of War?
I got it from Dawn of War, but I think it's pretty accurate. If you're open to everything it's far easier to manipulate you.
Disorder
11-04-2008, 00:15
bump
A number of states passed up on the opportunity to ban abortion this tuesday...
Z
Grendel Khan
11-08-2008, 14:55
This whole refute is assuming the idea that a person is "brought into existance" upon conception, and that a growing baby is a person by legal rights something like 7 hours after intercourse.
Now as for the child...
We as humans are intelligent mammals, what seperates us from other mammals is our ability to question, our morality, our ethical code, our emotions (or so we think).
So... a basic tenant of humanity is the fact that we exist in conscious state outside of any other form of life, and our perception allows us to see that.
So why do you value one persons life over another? Z
Because it is folly to assume that all "men" are created equal. It is foolish to overlook the value of one "man" vs the value of another.
why is the babies Life worth more than that of the mothers?
Ultimately the mother decides.
Z
Answered here:
How does the mother not have any choice in the matter, when she is the one giving life, and bearing the child...?
Z
-- not directed at Z, this is a in general statement:
Agree or disagree with abortion, it's still going to happen. Legal or illegal, it's still going to happen. Thankfully there is nothing that can be done to influence the minds and opinions of the masses in order to stop any action - with the flip of a switch.
(When they came for the Jews, I did nothing, because I'm not Jewish...)
Since it IS going to happen, regardless to regulations, then it becomes a health issue. Do you want women dying from street abortions? Or any of the other atrocities that would happen?
Oh, I'm sorry, you just want your will and opinion FORCED upon everyone.
(When they came for the Jews, I did nothing, because I'm not Jewish...)
But the basic mindset is, as long as it's your opinion that is running rough shod over the free-will of others, so be it - It's Good!
Now let's get to some basic realities. We have too many people on this planet as is. Every single life added to that number devalues every single life that is already here. If someone wants to avoid adding to that problem, so be it. Why FORCE a child that is unwanted to be born? Why place that burden on Society to provide for a child that hasn't been given a "fair shake"? Merely because you can't stomach the reality that callousness is more humane? You'd rather starve masses and degrade the living conditions of everyone, because you can't see to let happen what will happen?
You want Society to be responsible for every crack *****'s crack baby? You want to keep deducing the human potential? I want more from humanity, and I see more potential in it, then to drag it down due to the atrocities of "humane action".
Grendel Khan
11-08-2008, 15:05
Ah, but its on a different scale. If you scaled the universe down, the soda should prolly form back into a soda in a few weeks to months.
A general term perhaps?
:P
You are willing to manipulate the perceptions of "science" to serve your purposes, but completely unwilling to contemplate that they may explain a few things?
You are decreeing the way the universe must react, and by how it will be done, when you've decided to "scale down" the infinite" into an observable model of your command - and this seems reasonable?
That's like putting Yahweh in a can of soda...
Absurd.
Those in favour of abortion are usually also in favour of aiding unsustainable population growth in the third world. Overpopulation is not an issue for most first world countries, but is rampant in places like india and especially africa. China is slightly different, it has always had a large population.
Grendel Khan
11-08-2008, 15:22
I will never see the humanity in feeding one starving person, so that you can then feed their starving children.
I understand why people would be against abortion.
Heck I am AGAINST abortion.
You would have to be a strange fellow to be PRO abortion.
I wouldn't want anyone to have an abortion.
Abortion is not a good thing, but when something terribly wrong happens, its a way to fix it.
People should have the ability to choose their own destinies.
We can abstractly compare it to a few things:
Example:
You get your arm crippled and torn up in an accident. You can either attempt to save your arm, for which there may be a 20% chance of happening. (if you do not the living cells in your arm will die) Or since the risk of keeping your arm is so great to the rest of your body,, due to possible infection, you can amputate your arm.
It should be the choice of the person.
Why should you be able to decide for him?
Again:
The people of a country decide to go to war in another country. They go, and the war turns out to be a mistake, and really unfruitful for the invading country. (hmmmm...) now your have to choose from 2 bad things. Stay in a war where your country looses popularity, money, and faith, or pull out, and take the chance that the invaded country descends into turmoil.
Should it be up to the rest of the world to impose its decision... or should it be that of the invadeing country?
No one likes abortion, and in 99.99999% of pregnancies it should not even be on the table.
But for some it is the less of 2 evils.
Z
You are willing to manipulate the perceptions of "science" to serve your purposes, but completely unwilling to contemplate that they may explain a few things?
You are decreeing the way the universe must react, and by how it will be done, when you've decided to "scale down" the infinite" into an observable model of your command - and this seems reasonable?
That's like putting Yahweh in a can of soda...
Absurd.
I am going to draw a scale for you.
It is called the serious scale.
I am going to be represented as 't' and you will be 'x' on this scale.
|----t------------------------------------------------------x-----|
Also, please notice the ':P' smily. ;)
I am going to draw a scale for you.
It is called the serious scale.
I am going to be represented as 't' and you will be 'x' on this scale.
|----t------------------------------------------------------x-----|
Also, please notice the ':P' smily. ;)
indeed, I have learned that Green is never serious.
Abortion... It can be achieved with any blunt object, and a bit of force... what is so scientific about that...
Z
Grendel Khan
11-10-2008, 08:31
I am going to draw a scale for you.
It is called the serious scale.
I am going to be represented as 't' and you will be 'x' on this scale.
|----t------------------------------------------------------x-----|
Also, please notice the ':P' smily. ;)
I wonder if Diet Yahweh will come in a can, or only in plastic bottles.
:)
A glass bottle since god is probably a tree hugger :p
indeed, I have learned that Green is never serious.
Abortion... It can be achieved with any blunt object, and a bit of force... what is so scientific about that...
Z
I am always serious with you Z!
A glass bottle since god is probably a tree hugger :p
All the trees except the one in the center? :D
Mwahahahaha
11-14-2008, 18:03
Those in favour of abortion are usually also in favour of aiding unsustainable population growth in the third world. Overpopulation is not an issue for most first world countries, but is rampant in places like india and especially africa. China is slightly different, it has always had a large population.
I am pro abortion and pro letting people starve to death if they are not able to feed themselves.
To specify, I am PRO abortion. Abortion is usually performed by people who are not ready/able to raise a child properly. We have more than enough humans on this planet. Let proper people with jobs and stable families have children. The rest of them doesn't need to throw more misfits into this world.
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