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Mr President
10-27-2007, 09:44
I feel there were some good debates going on in the other thread, but it
was closed. So now i would like to keep it going in this thread. I will merge a few posts in here from the other one to get it back on track.




@ jig i might be wrong about the taliban and hussien but i know that we are not worse then what sadam was doing. i dont trust the media i dont trust the news i trusy first hand experiences. YES during a time of warfare there is going to be some inhumiane activities, BUT that is always part of war, look chineese torture, hitlers holocaust, but media does not show the good things, ive herd stories from iraq good and bad, the media doesnt show soldiers helping orphans or the good things in the war its just day XX another soldier dies, WAKE UP People were in a war Post 9/11 everyone was for war in afganastan and obviously most were for invading Iraq(talking about americans) and now we got another country to help out. weve done it before, 9/11 showed that america is not the indestructible nation that it was seen as for many years. now we have to deal with that fact and make way with what we started

Mr President
10-27-2007, 11:54
lol ooga..

Weapons of mass destruction was the main excuse to go into Iraq. granted i still believe they had them, but simply moved them around when we were building up forces. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people for crying out loud.

And give Iraq to IRAN???? Are you nuts? Why would you give Iran anything more? If anything give Iran to Iraq lol... Iran is in this war too. Don't think for one min that they are not killing our troops in secret and supporting the terrorist with weapons and training.

the east has always hated the west. Yes there were times we fought along side each other but they needed something done so why not go along with the dumb americans who buy into everything. And one more thing. The middle east has been at war since the beginning of time. It's not just the west they hate, THEY HATE EVERYONE! Even themselves lol.. Look back in history, they have always been at war with someone. Why is this? Why do they hate everyone so badly? America is in the spotlight cause we are
in a war over there right now. So now everyone blames America for making the east hate us.. oh please! We could be over there right now baking them cookies and they still would complain that we have to much sugar in them.

If it wasn't for oil, not one country would care what the desert people did with themselves. ALL nations work to keep the peace cause ALL nations need the oil. No it's not just Americans who need it.. ALL of us need it.

Once the oil is gone, or we have other means of fuel, do you really think anyone is going to give two flying barf bags about the middle east?

Shabaz K
10-28-2007, 00:57
lol ooga..

Weapons of mass destruction was the main excuse to go into Iraq. granted i still believe they had them, but simply moved them around when we were building up forces. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people for crying out loud.

And give Iraq to IRAN???? Are you nuts? Why would you give Iran anything more? If anything give Iran to Iraq lol... Iran is in this war too. Don't think for one min that they are not killing our troops in secret and supporting the terrorist with weapons and training.

the east has always hated the west. Yes there were times we fought along side each other but they needed something done so why not go along with the dumb americans who buy into everything. And one more thing. The middle east has been at war since the beginning of time. It's not just the west they hate, THEY HATE EVERYONE! Even themselves lol.. Look back in history, they have always been at war with someone. Why is this? Why do they hate everyone so badly? America is in the spotlight cause we are
in a war over there right now. So now everyone blames America for making the east hate us.. oh please! We could be over there right now baking them cookies and they still would complain that we have to much sugar in them.

If it wasn't for oil, not one country would care what the desert people did with themselves. ALL nations work to keep the peace cause ALL nations need the oil. No it's not just Americans who need it.. ALL of us need it.

Once the oil is gone, or we have other means of fuel, do you really think anyone is going to give two flying barf bags about the middle east?


i know saddam had chemicals, he used them against the kurds. and usa knows they had it cuase they were the ones who sold to them.

Iran is the in this war why becuase they have to protect their own *** form usa and by keeping them occupied in iraq they have them secured for the time being. once USA leaves Iraq u know who Iraq will turn to? Iran why? Iraq is moj. shiite. Sunnies and Shiites in this time era ( well in every time ear) are not getting along. Iraq needs Iran if its to rebiuld it self as they have soo much in fluence thier.


yes Middle East beens at war for ages and so has USA in its short history. but right now its not east v. west, it more like USA v. the rest. The Americans have thier finger in everything.

and yes thier are other means of fuel all u have to do is ask ur president for that lol.


bottom line USA is the world power they can bully anyone they wish all they have to remember is what goes around comes around.

Mahdi
10-28-2007, 01:27
America became a powerhouse during WW I when it went from roughly 24k troops up to around 1 mil in a few years now given those numbers are most likely wrong but that is still a massive increase...


Why do you think the Globe is getting warmer? America has its finger in it...

whoops my bad... joke

Shabaz K
10-28-2007, 11:23
like i said maybe they did

because (not trying to sound cocky) america has been the power house for the past few years and if u think back in histroy the powerhouse always had its finger in everything, rome did in its era, britian did in its era. its the roll u get as a powerful nation


so u cant blame them for hating u can u?

Hoebawt
10-28-2007, 15:41
America became a powerhouse during WW I when it went from roughly 24k troops up to around 1 mil in a few years now given those numbers are most likely wrong but that is still a massive increase...


Why do you think the Globe is getting warmer? America has its finger in it...

whoops my bad... joke

hmmmm Yea we kinda became a powerhouse then, but we still werent really noticed as teh big huncho.... not till Peal Harbor and the Start of WW2 taht the world saw us as a huge world power

Hoebawt
10-28-2007, 15:49
Hmmm idk Sean i think we are donig worse then saddam.... yea he was ****ed up for killin his own ppl and constantly killin the Kurds... but Saddam was also the only one who united the Sunnies and Shiites somethign that prob wont happen for a very long time if it ever does..... like i said in another post we really unbalanaced the region.....


And for the reasons we went into IRAQ are reasons for war... wtf are we waiting for to go into Iran and other Countries in that region


and Mr P you are wrong about everyone caring about Oil in the Mid east.... thats holy land... the wars have been giong on there for 1000s of years... and oil has only be around for wat 100 or so years....

The Middle East will always be on the spotlight since thats the Holy Land for about 80% of the world..... Wars are always gonna happen there and wont stop ever... not till one of the sides gets strong enough and set out on mission of Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide........ not saying i agree wit that but thats the only way peace will ever come to the Mid east

Mwahahahaha
11-02-2007, 21:46
Nice. A real discussion for a change instead of all the usual back-patting.

First, I'd like to give credit to the US, as recent operations has shown that you've learned from your history, Vietnam as well as Iraq. A war on foreign soil as this is not about bombing the **** out of the enemy, but making sure the population is on your side. You will never kill all the bad guys. What you need to do is to make sure that the general population hate the troublemakers more than your soldiers, and face it. With your and other western countries history and having, to them a foreign, infidel religion, you're in it with a handicap. Any soldier placed in Iraq will be walking around with a perceived red flag on them, unless you clearly show that your presence is in the interest of the common man living there, a perception which is not turned overnight, and can easily be ruined by operations like blackwater and similar.

Sure, in a perfect world, Saddam should be removed, but what else is there in this region. Almost all of Iraq's neighbouring countries are more oppressive than Saddam. No one can surely claim that countries like Iran, Syria and Saudi-Arabia has treated their populations any better than Saddam did. Sure, he did a good effort killing off kurds, but even one of NATO's most important allies, Turkey, are going to great lengths towarads fighting the kurds, and are still doing so. And as far as oppression goes, if you were to pick on country in that region that were the most oppressive towards their own population, no one in their right mind would pick anything but Saudi-Arabia, an ally.

As for Saddam supporting Al-Quaida, there is no evidence supporting that whatsoever. Al-Quaida was not active in Iraq until the US arrived. Now it is a holy battlefield for the Jihad-extremists. Saudi-Arabia is a major supplier of those.

The fact is that it is a screwed up place which is better left alone. They operate with a completely different set of morals and they don't want anyone pushing western morals and ideals of democracy on them. Their terrorist acts were not an arbitraty act, but a reaction towards western influence in their own sphere. As any other country in this world, they want to be left alone, and not have "better" moral standards of personal conduct and democracy pushed onto them by infidels, but be left alone to make their own decisions on how they want their society to be. Just the same as any other country in this world would.

The same goes for Afghanistan. On one hand, I'd agree that this is were the terrorists really are located, and I completely support the initial operations to weaken the terrorist networks there and the overthrowment of the Taliban. On the other hand, the areas where Osama and Co are most likely located today are in Pashtun territories. If you think the islamists are screwed, you'd be amazed if you looked at the moral codes of these people. Unless you know exactly where Osama is located and can deliver a precision strike against him, these people are better left alone. Their views on morals and the world are so foreign and illogical to western minds, that you're stuck with two options. Leave them alone, or kill them all.

More US citizens have been killed in Iraq than those killed in terrorist acts. As a bonus, you've managed to turn the world sentiment from a fairly positive view towards the US to a strongly negative one. Believe it or not, but the US had a sizeable amount of international goodwill, which has been completely wasted as a result of the Bush adminstration's actions. And even if you were to pacify Iraq, and turn it into a country of your own liking, you'd still be left with tons of prospective terrorists from all the neighbouring countries. All you've accomplished then is perhaps a more stable oil supply, but in no terms a home country safer from terrorist acts. Sure, oil is important, but is it morally right to sacrifice the lives of young patriotic americans for lower oil prices?

From what I can see, all those american soldiers lives has been spent on the Bush administrations's agenda, and not on the safety of the American people. If Iraq wasn't invaded, I doubt you'd find any of Saddam's agents showing up in the US to mindlessly kill innocent Americans.

Mr President
11-03-2007, 12:31
Holy crap.. and you all complain about my speeches lol

First @ hoe, If you think for one min that the US govt or any other major Govt cares that the middle east is the "holy" land then you are mistaken. All we see is the oil we need and an unbalanced country controlling it. I do agree that the whole region over there has always been at war and always will, cause THEY are the ones who care about the holy land.

Mwahahaha:

I actually agree with what you said. lol

The main thing is we all try to speculate why the US invaded Iraq. We really do not know why. The only one who knows this for sure is GW Bush and Co. There are so many deals that are made that the normal citizen has no clue about.

I for one don't agree that we need to set up Democracy in every country. Why do we have to have everyone doing what we do? The reason is cause if we set them up with a Democracy then we can control MORE of what they do. Like Mwahaha said, we actually had a nice goodwill presence in that region, but now we don't. Yes someone needs to stand up and stop the terrorists, but dang let's go to where the terrorists really are, and let's get the ones who really hit us.

In Desert Storm Saddam was totally humiliated. There was so much talk about how big and strong his army was that everyone thought we were getting into another war like vietnam. Little did he know his men would throw up there hands at the first sign of US Troops. He lost more than the war during that time. But why on earth would he even try that again? He knows that if he attacked the US that he would lose. Don't get me wrong, i'm glad he is gone, but he was not the #1 priority.

I don't even here anything about Bin Laden on the news anymore, unless of course he sends another letter making his threats. Then it's pumped into our minds so we can be scared. I'm sorry, but i don't believe for one second that we can't find him. We have satalite's that can tell what color my crap is, so i don't buy that we can't find him. I think we don't want to find him. Cause once we do then 99.9999% of the Americans will want us out of Iraq right now! But if Bin Laden is still on the run and free then we have justification in staying in Iraq.

Oil to me is the only logical explination as to why we are in Iraq. We needed and wanted to get more control over this oil supply. Could you imagine what would happen if Iraq cut off oil suppies to the US? But now that we have set up there Govt and helped them in setting up a democracy, well now we have our hands deeper in there pockets and are able to "control" them easier.

I see good points and bad points to this war.

Mr President
11-03-2007, 12:35
Nice. A real discussion for a change instead of all the usual back-patting.



By all means, create a topic that will get us debating. We don't have as many members as we use to have in WoW, but the ones here will still engage in a good debate over issues..

And in time, we hope to have lots more members who will do the same..
But we need good posts to keep the interest..

ranger2112
11-03-2007, 15:29
i have eye-strain from reading the last couple of post, however I did get through them. i for one agreed with the initial invasion and the overthrow of Saddam and I think that leaving now will lead to another "bay of pigs" issue. Kennedy set our foreign relations back 30 years when he bailed and nearly extinguished every living thing on this planet. we cannot do the same in Iraq. as distasteful as it is we need to stay there until the present FREELY ELECTED government has a better handle on the situation. i believe we WILL be involved with other countries in our "little sandbox" and continue to fight terrorism...problem is, as earlier stated, there is no winning. we either continue to fight them and get with with car bombs etc or we leave them alone and allow them to regroup and get a VERY BIG CAR BOMB either way is is gonna be a messy next several years that will require us, the USA, the strongest nation around to merely stem the tide of big terrorism and constantly fight the little wars that will always keep us in a bad eye with many nations. thats because these nations rather keep th eir blinders on and simply hope the problem will go away.\

so there, this is my book...:P

Hoebawt
11-03-2007, 16:18
Holy crap.. and you all complain about my speeches lol

First @ hoe, If you think for one min that the US govt or any other major Govt cares that the middle east is the "holy" land then you are mistaken. All we see is the oil we need and an unbalanced country controlling it. I do agree that the whole region over there has always been at war and always will, cause THEY are the ones who care about the holy land.

Mwahahaha:

I actually agree with what you said. lol

The main thing is we all try to speculate why the US invaded Iraq. We really do not know why. The only one who knows this for sure is GW Bush and Co. There are so many deals that are made that the normal citizen has no clue about.

I for one don't agree that we need to set up Democracy in every country. Why do we have to have everyone doing what we do? The reason is cause if we set them up with a Democracy then we can control MORE of what they do. Like Mwahaha said, we actually had a nice goodwill presence in that region, but now we don't. Yes someone needs to stand up and stop the terrorists, but dang let's go to where the terrorists really are, and let's get the ones who really hit us.

In Desert Storm Saddam was totally humiliated. There was so much talk about how big and strong his army was that everyone thought we were getting into another war like vietnam. Little did he know his men would throw up there hands at the first sign of US Troops. He lost more than the war during that time. But why on earth would he even try that again? He knows that if he attacked the US that he would lose. Don't get me wrong, i'm glad he is gone, but he was not the #1 priority.

I don't even here anything about Bin Laden on the news anymore, unless of course he sends another letter making his threats. Then it's pumped into our minds so we can be scared. I'm sorry, but i don't believe for one second that we can't find him. We have satalite's that can tell what color my crap is, so i don't buy that we can't find him. I think we don't want to find him. Cause once we do then 99.9999% of the Americans will want us out of Iraq right now! But if Bin Laden is still on the run and free then we have justification in staying in Iraq.

Oil to me is the only logical explination as to why we are in Iraq. We needed and wanted to get more control over this oil supply. Could you imagine what would happen if Iraq cut off oil suppies to the US? But now that we have set up there Govt and helped them in setting up a democracy, well now we have our hands deeper in there pockets and are able to "control" them easier.

I see good points and bad points to this war.



Mr P America Owns the Most Oil Rich land in the world... Alaska..... If Iraq and all of them countries would Boycott us and cutt us off from their oil, within years we will have more Barrels then them from our own supply... we can even unbalance the market if we wished..... its def not just over oil.... GWB is their cleaning up his fathers mess.... We should have never entered Iraq.. we had no reason... and now the Country is in debt and we are mking alot of enemies... Personally I think Osma is ither already Dead or in our hands... and telling the ppl hes captured would only put pressure on our Gov to pull out of afganstan and iraq..... Fear is a great tool... YOu can Control the masses if you can inflict them wit a fear...and thats what our gov is doing... They gave us a fear that we can be attacked on our homeland and now lil by lil they have stripped our Rights..... Since bush as became president the check and balance system has changed... Power has gone into the Excutive branch more now then any other president ever

What we need to do is give Iraq over to the Arab countries and let them try to fix our mess.... its not likes its even their duty but those countries hate us coz of how we a western Power is influencing a new gov in the region.. in the long run it will only mk things worse.... Iraq is a messed up place that we wont be able to fix at all

Mr President
11-04-2007, 18:18
Mr P America Owns the Most Oil Rich land in the world... Alaska..... If Iraq and all of them countries would Boycott us and cutt us off from their oil, within years we will have more Barrels then them from our own supply... we can even unbalance the market if we wished..... its def not just over oil.... GWB is their cleaning up his fathers mess.... We should have never entered Iraq.. we had no reason... and now the Country is in debt and we are mking alot of enemies... Personally I think Osma is ither already Dead or in our hands... and telling the ppl hes captured would only put pressure on our Gov to pull out of afganstan and iraq..... Fear is a great tool... YOu can Control the masses if you can inflict them wit a fear...and thats what our gov is doing... They gave us a fear that we can be attacked on our homeland and now lil by lil they have stripped our Rights..... Since bush as became president the check and balance system has changed... Power has gone into the Excutive branch more now then any other president ever

What we need to do is give Iraq over to the Arab countries and let them try to fix our mess.... its not likes its even their duty but those countries hate us coz of how we a western Power is influencing a new gov in the region.. in the long run it will only mk things worse.... Iraq is a messed up place that we wont be able to fix at all


Of course we would tap into Alaska if needed.. But we will do all we can to use up other nations oil long before we tap into our own supply.. And of course conservationist will have a field day if we tried to tap into alaska.

I also agree that we are in Iraq to clean up "daddy's" mess. But i don't think
it's the whole reason.

we are not making anymore enemies that we didn't already have. You think they hate us cause we hit Iraq? They have always hated us. They are just using Iraq as the latest reason to voice why they hate us.

I also agree with you about the fear thing. As long as Americans are scared then we will keep empowering the govt. This is my biggest complaint, as i'm sure you all have read many many times. The Govt is taking more and more away from us each day. And we are doing NOTHING to stop them. The only thing this country cares about is money and health care. Pride for your family and pride in doing a good days work is gone. If someone doesn't make 1 million dollars a year then the govt sucks.. The baby boomers are the main problem. This is where it all really started. I only hope you, the younger generation gets more involved and works hard to make things right.

I don't think we need to give Iraq to anyone but IRAQ! Who are we to hand over a country or to control a country? Iraq belongs to Iraq... period!

I think we agree on many things Hoe. But there are some things we don't. I'm not saying i am right, or you are wrong.. But this is why the parties were created. To debate the differences and merge ideas to make the best possible solution. This doesn't happen anymore. it's whoever controls the house. Rarely do you ever see republicans vote for a democratic policy. And the same the other way around. Things need to change. power needs to get back in the hands of the people. Approval ratings are just a news topic now. Use to be that if your approval rating was in the crapper you worked harder and started listening to things.. Not anymore. :-(

Hoebawt
11-04-2007, 18:21
We Dont live in a democracy we live in a two party dictatorship

Mr President
11-04-2007, 18:26
lol.. Sadly i agree with that comment..

Hoebawt
11-04-2007, 19:10
Its very sad but yet very true

Shabaz K
11-07-2007, 00:11
Hmmm idk Sean i think we are donig worse then saddam.... yea he was ****ed up for killin his own ppl and constantly killin the Kurds... but Saddam was also the only one who united the Sunnies and Shiites somethign that prob wont happen for a very long time if it ever does..... like i said in another post we really unbalanaced the region.....


And for the reasons we went into IRAQ are reasons for war... wtf are we waiting for to go into Iran and other Countries in that region


and Mr P you are wrong about everyone caring about Oil in the Mid east.... thats holy land... the wars have been giong on there for 1000s of years... and oil has only be around for wat 100 or so years....

The Middle East will always be on the spotlight since thats the Holy Land for about 80% of the world..... Wars are always gonna happen there and wont stop ever... not till one of the sides gets strong enough and set out on mission of Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide........ not saying i agree wit that but thats the only way peace will ever come to the Mid east

actually saddam never could unite the shias and sunnies plainly becuase he took the power away form shias. saddam pretty much teated them bad aswell. sadly the United States made it even more impossible for us to unite.
but when the 2 sides do untie thats when USA has to look for other alliance and just get out of middle east but like i said wont happen in the near future cuase the sunnies are treating them bad look at Qatar shias arent even allowed to ahve top jobs, same in other countries around Saudia Arabia

ranger2112
11-07-2007, 09:57
We Dont live in a democracy we live in a two party dictatorship

actually we live in a Republic...in a Republic the majority rules in a democracy every single voice counts.


Rome was a Republic and it fell under its own weight and corruption....our Republic has become bloated and cumbersome and I am sad to say will not live forever...

ranger2112
11-07-2007, 10:01
Of course we would tap into Alaska if needed.. But we will do all we can to use up other nations oil long before we tap into our own supply.. And of course conservationist will have a field day if we tried to tap into alaska.

I also agree that we are in Iraq to clean up "daddy's" mess. But i don't think
it's the whole reason.

we are not making anymore enemies that we didn't already have. You think they hate us cause we hit Iraq? They have always hated us. They are just using Iraq as the latest reason to voice why they hate us.

I also agree with you about the fear thing. As long as Americans are scared then we will keep empowering the govt. This is my biggest complaint, as i'm sure you all have read many many times. The Govt is taking more and more away from us each day. And we are doing NOTHING to stop them. The only thing this country cares about is money and health care. Pride for your family and pride in doing a good days work is gone. If someone doesn't make 1 million dollars a year then the govt sucks.. The baby boomers are the main problem. This is where it all really started. I only hope you, the younger generation gets more involved and works hard to make things right.

I don't think we need to give Iraq to anyone but IRAQ! Who are we to hand over a country or to control a country? Iraq belongs to Iraq... period!

I think we agree on many things Hoe. But there are some things we don't. I'm not saying i am right, or you are wrong.. But this is why the parties were created. To debate the differences and merge ideas to make the best possible solution. This doesn't happen anymore. it's whoever controls the house. Rarely do you ever see republicans vote for a democratic policy. And the same the other way around. Things need to change. power needs to get back in the hands of the people. Approval ratings are just a news topic now. Use to be that if your approval rating was in the crapper you worked harder and started listening to things.. Not anymore. :-(

WHile i cannot entirely condone what our current administration has done...some things lately seem familiar....something i seen in black and white several years ago and they all spoke German....however had the CLINTON administration NOT let Osama off the hook whenever they had him in their sights things would have been different...had our government NOT trainied and funded the Taliban in the first place so that they could continue to keep Russia's attention things would have been different...had Kennedy NOT abandoned Cuba at the Bay of Pigs and started the cold war...things would have been different....

BUT THOSE THINGS DID HAPPEN....and now our generation has to pay...lets hope our kids dont pay an even heavier price.....

Hoebawt
11-07-2007, 13:34
You ever think of wat would have happened if Clinton Did stop Osma.... Im sure 9 11 wouldnt have been the worst attack on America.... im also sure we would lost any support we have in the middle east

ranger2112
11-07-2007, 13:43
there is a lot of opposition in the middle east against terrorist..at least publicly. it would have been real hard for those countries to condemn us for his capture in light of what he has done...even prior to 911.

Mr President
11-07-2007, 17:06
You ever think of wat would have happened if Clinton Did stop Osma.... Im sure 9 11 wouldnt have been the worst attack on America.... im also sure we would lost any support we have in the middle east


The only reason we didn't capture him back then was cause the Clinton administration labeled him a small threat with a big mouth.

I have always been baffled that even after they tried to bring the towers down back in the 90's nobody felt they would do it again..

pcgluva
11-07-2007, 17:09
that is very true ranger




BUT THOSE THINGS DID HAPPEN....and now our generation has to pay...lets hope our kids dont pay an even heavier price...

i also agree, most of the forces hitting our troops are with our own weapons, at the time during the cold war it wa almost nessacary, and the taliban werent the the only ones we help like this, they are the only ones to use it against us

Hoebawt
11-07-2007, 17:34
that is very true ranger



i also agree, most of the forces hitting our troops are with our own weapons, at the time during the cold war it wa almost nessacary, and the taliban werent the the only ones we help like this, they are the only ones to use it against us


WAT? i didnt know Ak's and Rpgs where American.....

pcgluva
11-07-2007, 18:17
alot of the weapons and trainign used is from our own during the cold war, the us and ussr never faught 1 on 1 but they suplied nations fighting against the other or the others ally

Hoebawt
11-08-2007, 15:39
Yea we deff help train Some of them... but those weapons are Russian.... and we did give the taliban weapons... Stinger missles... to shot down the Russian Helicopter's which lead to the USSR losing the war... like we lost Vietnam... luckly we bounced back they didnt....


and most of the fighters hitting our troops arent the ones we trained or helped... its the troops from Syria and Iran that where trained by them....

Mwahahahaha
11-09-2007, 19:48
By all means, create a topic that will get us debating. We don't have as many members as we use to have in WoW, but the ones here will still engage in a good debate over issues..

And in time, we hope to have lots more members who will do the same..
But we need good posts to keep the interest..

If someone called Mr President, is going to agree with me, what's the point of someone like me trying to create a discussion? :crying:

Anyway, from what I understand, your aim is to establish a democracy in Iraq. Why?

Democracy solves nothing. Especially not for a place like this. Why would the average person in Baghdad care if he got a vote in who's the most corrupt guy in the country?

What you should focus on is the greatest weapon the western civilization has - capitalism.

Capitalism and to bring the macroeconomic views down to an individual viewpoint, greed, is what makes us tick. Adam Smith's invisible hand.

If you manage to make a decent living, and are able to purchase that flat screen tv, you're not going to waste your time or your life on killing some people you've never met. Make sure that the wealth goes to the average Iraqi citizen instead of Haliburton, and you'll start seeing results.

If instead of trying to show that the US is bringing democracy to the country, try to show that the US is bringing wealth to the Iraqi citizen, and the people will love you.

Capitalism is my religion, and there are few people refusing to embrase it.

Xavior
11-11-2007, 16:41
alot of the weapons and trainign used is from our own during the cold war, the us and ussr never faught 1 on 1 but they suplied nations fighting against the other or the others ally

Yes, and the USA and USSR ****ed over countless countries by doing that. (hmm.. Korean war?)

I remember when i first made the "Bush Going To WAR" thread in the WoW forums. I got told to **** myself :)