Really Marine?

[Calvin74]

That better pron:P

[pron]

Take it to PM...

[Mr President]

Why would this have to go to a PM?

Anyway in the title of the war dec you said he was a terrible leader.. Personally I think Calvin did a fantastic job leading this set. He hasn't led a nation in a long time, but yet still did a fantastic job. He communicated with all of us, worked hard at diplomacy keeping us as safe as he could and he also made strong ties with some new allies. He logged in daily, kept the NA up the best he could and most of all looked out for all of us.

Marine when you were in the nation you just up and left. No message, no warning just deleted your state. Your only care was your own state.. Not the rest of ours. When you were in the top spot you sent out a message asking all of use to use our turns to build up the NA so you could stay on top.. Again looking out for just you. Sadly I think most of us did try to help you out and support you and then you just up and left.. Then you come back to attack us.. gee glad we spent turns to help you out. And you have the nerve to call him a bad leader? Not to mention in another post you claimed how bad suiciding was for the game.. WTH?

Calvin worked hard this set trying to get new members and boost moral.. All you did was suicide. And the same goes for Z.. So Z your little excuse of suiciding is now complete BS! You said you were after Sky states for your revenge. So why would you go after Calvin when he hasn't touched your state or helped in any war against you?

My gosh what the hell are you 2 thinking? And I thought Lord Burch was unstable..

[Mr President]

I reopened this and put it back in this section. I just wanted this to be said. After a day or so feel free to trash this thread again.

[Dogma]

where are the pink names and I think as well, that if a suicider tries to start a new state their real name should show up by default and not allow them to change it.

[Dogma]

Indulge my double post, but I thought that the retaliation feature was not to be used as a suiciders tool. I think if anything there should be a roll back and state deletion. Until we get rough on the likes of these two, it is going to continue.

[ooga booga]

My thoughts are:

Known suicider has pink name for a whole year (12 sets) and if there are 0 suicides by the offending state in that time frame the pink will be gone. If he does suicide during the time frame than the infraction starts up and the timer is reset for another full year.

Also if they are deemed a suicider they lose ALL medals they have. Stripped of everything. If they have 1, 3, or HoF status they lose it all.

Just my 2 cents. :)

[-Z-]

My thoughts are:

Known suicider has pink name for a whole year (12 sets) and if there are 0 suicides by the offending state in that time frame the pink will be gone. If he does suicide during the time frame than the infraction starts up and the timer is reset for another full year.

Also if they are deemed a suicider they lose ALL medals they have. Stripped of everything. If they have 1, 3, or HoF status they lose it all.

Just my 2 cents. :)

I Agree.

Although in recent times I have begun to rethink the idea of "suicide attacks"

What differentiates a suicide attack from one or 2 men waging war on a rival?

Or is it not allowed for one or two men (of women for that matter) to fight independently?

The way many of you seem to describe things, it seems we should not even let a player make any attacks until he joins a nation that has been in existence for at least 3 or 4 days.

This would effectively take away a persons right to play the game as an individual, which is what you all seem to want. Which I can understand.

Z

[Calvin74]

I Agree.

Although in recent times I have begun to rethink the idea of "suicide attacks"

What differentiates a suicide attack from one or 2 men waging war on a rival?

Or is it not allowed for one or two men (of women for that matter) to fight independently?

The way many of you seem to describe things, it seems we should not even let a player make any attacks until he joins a nation that has been in existence for at least 3 or 4 days.

This would effectively take away a persons right to play the game as an individual, which is what you all seem to want. Which I can understand.

Z



I would just like a reason for the 'war'. You obviously had 0 gain in this war and did it for the sole purpose of killing me. So what did I do that was so bad other than have Marine as my co-leader who abandoned our nation when we were competing for top spots?
As Mr P pointed out Marine worked this entire set solely for his state and that did cause friction with us but in my opinion it wasn't worth him throwing away a top 5 finish. After his grab on Sky our relations actually improved I think b/c I talked with them and made them understand that we were not behind the suiciding. I have to wonder now though since you were the suicider Z did you tell Marine about it? Was the entire think just for him to get his landgrab? Is that why you never took credit for the hit? Is that also why you are mad at me for trying to help out Sky and CTU.

Maybe you aren't aware of how actual leadership works in a nation but it is put the nation above yourself. Ensure that everyone in the nation has an equal opportunity and make sure that you work with other nations to help out the game as a whole. That is why 9 times out of ten when I lead a tag I won't net at the top. I didn't back in the day to often and I don't now. I will sacrifice my state for the good of the tag and I only want nation members that will do the same thing. Even our top ten states this set took part in kill runs to ensure our nation was safe. They could have been like Marine and just gone ahead netting and probably gotten a higher finish.

While I am upset you killed my state in reality I would have maybe added 125m nw to our finish. I am glad that no one else in our nation got hurt (at least that I can see) and will have the chance to continue the great job they are doing.

I will be back next set leading CR and if you want to come after my state again you are more than welcome to. You should get no satisfaction from suiciding on me though. I was/am just trying to make this game more open and fair for everyone. Not once will my nation take any action that harms the game.

[Tnova]

This is kind of why we got out of the Suicide marking business the first go around. It's too subjective and you can never really ever know the history of each instance.

The only way to be fair is to lay out the ground rules of what is suiciding. If you lay them out, people are going to poke holes and try and get around them. It is really a no win situation as someone is always going to be pissed off.

You hope people have the maturity to dish out the revenge and move on. But i guess considering the demographics of players that play this game, that is an unreasonable expectation across the board.

As someone who doesn't see eye to eye with the mentality of a suicider, the whole debate is utterly frustrating for me personally.

[Calvin74]

This is kind of why we got out of the Suicide marking business the first go around. It's too subjective and you can never really ever know the history of each instance.

The only way to be fair is to lay out the ground rules of what is suiciding. If you lay them out, people are going to poke holes and try and get around them. It is really a no win situation as someone is always going to be pissed off.

You hope people have the maturity to dish out the revenge and move on. But i guess considering the demographics of players that play this game, that is an unreasonable expectation across the board.

As someone who doesn't see eye to eye with the mentality of a suicider, the whole debate is utterly frustrating for me personally.


You are right. There is no conclusive way to tell a suicider from a person waging war. I wish this didn't even come up but when you have under 100 active players and 5-10% of them are suiciders it will come up pretty often. Especially when it is so easy for 1 person to do it three times in a set.

This may or may not have been a suicide. In my eyes a suicide is a war that has 0 end game for the attacker. Had we been farming this tag then they would be justified. Had we done unsolicited war attacks they would have a reason. There can't be any ingame reason for their attack as we didn't even know this two states in hiding existed. They have no hope to gain anything from this war. Even if a smaller tag wars a bigger tag for a reason and knows they will lose, they at least gain respect and stand up for themselves. Such was not the case here.


Also no action needs to be taken against these two states since the fast action by CR lead to their deaths almost before I even knew anything had happened.

It isn't the rules of the game that need to change it is the mentality of the players. I don't know how to make that happen so I fear for the game when over the last 5 years people have shown absolutely no growth in maturity. Kinda makes me feel sad as a human to see that as well.

[Tnova]

Blame me Calvin, for I neglected to tell you how unstable Marine Recon is when things don't go his way. He has a well documented history of erratic behaviour. And since i have been suicided by him twice, i should know.

You probably wouldn't have listened, because you are a fair guy and believe in second chances. But then I'd at least be able to say i told you so, and I'd be cool then :thumbup:

[Calvin74]

Blame me Calvin, for I neglected to tell you how unstable Marine Recon is when things don't go his way. He has a well documented history of erratic behaviour. And since i have been suicided by him twice, i should know.

You probably wouldn't have listened, because you are a fair guy and believe in second chances. But then I'd at least be able to say i told you so, and I'd be cool then :thumbup:

LOL
After he deleted his state everyone came up to me and asked me what I was doing. I still don't understand deleting your state when you are fighting for a top 3 spot and your nation is running great. I guess it really was that he didn't like me saying he screwed up with that lg on Sky.

And you can still say you told me so:P I just won't be as fun for you now:P

[pron]

Why would this have to go to a PM?

I contend that internal affairs of nation, and I would argue that's what this is, should be done in PM, as it simply becomes a spectacle to every onlooker outside of the nation.

But hey, that's just me :) Post away if you don't want to do it in PM.

[ooga booga]

I contend that internal affairs of nation, and I would argue that's what this is, should be done in PM, as it simply becomes a spectacle to every onlooker outside of the nation.

But hey, that's just me :) Post away if you don't want to do it in PM.

It's not really internal affairs. Z was never a part of CR, and Marine was only a part of it for about 2 weeks. It's semi-internal I guess, but it's nice to try and get what the reasons Z and Marine had for killing Calvin. Of course they will have no real good reason. I don't get it, what's' the point of having an individual grudge against Calvin? Was CR the one to originally kill Z? Idk I don't understand the mindset of some of these people...

[-Z-]

I enjoy attacking an enemy.

I do not enjoy leading friends to death.

Calvin asked if i understood what is was to lead a nation... I lead a successful nation for 40-50 sets.

I do understand the socialist philosophy that most nations hold, and I agree with it.

Quite frankly I grew tired of leading my men into fair battles, then getting gang banged people, on the grounds that we attacked first or w/e it may be.

My nation mates were and are my friends, and for now attacking alone or with another person that does not mind dieing for a reason makes sense to me.

The entire reason that Sky can get first ranks often is because they act Like Marine Recon was acting when he was in the running, except the entire nation of Sky co-operates by building NA for the Top states, and reselling their armies repeatedly to create national revenues for the top 1-3 states.

I find your support for Sky, and criticism of Marine in the same post frankly hypocritical.


Z

[Max Logan]

The entire reason that Sky can get first ranks often is because they act Like Marine Recon was acting when he was in the running, except the entire nation of Sky co-operates by building NA for the Top states, and reselling their armies repeatedly to create national revenues for the top 1-3 states.

I find your support for Sky, and criticism of Marine in the same post frankly hypocritical.

Did Sky suicide MR? Did Sky suicide CTU? I must`ve missed that!

[Calvin74]

I enjoy attacking an enemy.

I do not enjoy leading friends to death.

Calvin asked if i understood what is was to lead a nation... I lead a successful nation for 40-50 sets.

I do understand the socialist philosophy that most nations hold, and I agree with it.

Quite frankly I grew tired of leading my men into fair battles, then getting gang banged people, on the grounds that we attacked first or w/e it may be.

My nation mates were and are my friends, and for now attacking alone or with another person that does not mind dieing for a reason makes sense to me.

The entire reason that Sky can get first ranks often is because they act Like Marine Recon was acting when he was in the running, except the entire nation of Sky co-operates by building NA for the Top states, and reselling their armies repeatedly to create national revenues for the top 1-3 states.

I find your support for Sky, and criticism of Marine in the same post frankly hypocritical.


Z

I have to question whether you successfully lead nations if this is how you act. I criticized marine for his actions as a nation LEADER. Maybe I gave him to much credit in that capacity. Sky works for all their members and it isn't only their leader that gets the top state. Many of their members have won sets before.
Also I don't remember a top Sky member deleting their state and then suiciding on the nation they just left later in the set. Do you not see the difference?