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Crimson Shadow
06-20-2011, 21:35
Alright, here is kind of a long rant (which could be covered in another thread, I'm not really sure because I'm only semi-active right now and haven't looked through other recent threads). Not really sure where this thread should fall into since it falls into suggestions, game, and community haha.

IF YOU DON'T READ ANYTHING ELSE, AT LEAST READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH!!!

Anyways, how many of you are starting to feel like playing this game is becoming a chore more than a game? I know that for me I'm basically logging on at the same time every day, playing turns, logging off. The game and community (which was the biggest thing the game has/had going for it) are both dead.

The game is predictable...Moradon wins the set with a bunch of sky states up there, same states play top 10-20 all set long, same states stock, same military unit horded. Can't really war to add excitement because there either aren't enough states to war and the FS wins or you run the risk of pushing others away by randomly warring them and "ruining their set." The community is dead too. I know its the summer months so things are almost always more quiet than they usually are, but we are averaging like 3 posts a day from a community that used to put out 20-30 a day even with dwindling numbers.

There is NO interaction with new members either. Every set there are new members in USA that play like half a set running mixed strats/armies then they just leave. No attempt was made to contact and/or help out the player (blame falls on me here too). Now maybe there has been with private messages, but back in the day (old WoW) there would have been FWed messages welcoming/encouraging and helping out the new player.

We have become too content with doing our own routines and the game has become stagnant, which is the biggest hindrance to our game. No gameplay update is going to bring in substantial members, it relies on US to make things exciting again. Try to think about this from a new player's mentality. You join the game, the market is bone dry, only the top 10 states numbers (NW) change, everyone else's numbers stays the exact same because they are stocking or not playing. There are no dead states to show that something is happening, just a bunch of boring, inactive ones.


This is what got me hooked to the game...I went over to my cousins house who logged into the game to check and make sure his state was still alive because his nation was at war. He also checked to see when the next strike was and who their target was. Then he logged off. That was all it took to let me see how awesome of a game this was. What do new members have to look forward to now? Watching someone play 100 turns and then bank their money? Or be impressed that they are in 17th place....until they find out that its out of 40 active states? Let's face it, there is no excitement in the game any more and there won't be as long as we keep our routines and don't have any wars. And that won't change until we get more members.

Pres, I love the new additions that you keep making to the game, but look at it rationally, these aren't going to bring in hundreds, or even tens of members. With the low player base noone is going change their routine. Everyone will keep doing the same predictable thing and the game will eventually die.

So what can we do about this?

First of all, what happened to all of the old players that just randomly left? When we first opened this (NW) up to estonians there were about 50 that played (only 10 remain). What happened to them? Where did the other common people go? The MAGGIOs, dbozmens, ooga boogs, Kenshins, Alis, Devils, etc. Or the people that used to show up every couple of sets and play then leave randomly for a few more: Legends, jameswheels, Vialis. Or what happened to the really old vets who haven't played since NW opened: The CurLys, gnorfs, Multi-182s, zionzeypher, etc. Has anyone tried contacting these people since NW opened?

Secondly, the only thing that can probably save this game is ADVERTISING. Let's face it, we have probably gone as far as we can with word of mouth. So why can't we try other ways of drawing people to us. Joining other forums just to make a post about Nation-Wars or making an account to send Private messages to other members about the game. Worst-case scenario is that you waste 5 minutes of your time and get banned from a game/forum that you never would have done anything with anyways.



I'm not trying to be over-critical, but its something that we are ALL doing and until it changes, the game never will no matter what changes Pres brings to the game.

So here is my challenge to EACH and EVERYONE of you, make an account in a random game and either make a post in their forums or PM a few of their members advertising the game to them. Say that big changes are coming and that the game is about to be relaunched (because it is when the new attacks come out). If you get banned, big deal...not like you were ever would have visited that website if it weren't for recruiting anyways.


Thanks for listening guys,
-Crimson Shadow



PS - I have sent a message to all nation leaders regarding this thread to have them forward it throughout their respective nations. If you haven't gotten one in your nation then please spread the word to the other players in your nation so we can try to get as much awareness about this issue as possible.

Mr President
06-20-2011, 21:40
*tear falls from eyes with pride*

You know things are bad when quiet crimson speaks out lol.. nice post and I 100% agree..

One thing I would like to point out, I don't make changes based on gaining new members. Most of the changes are for the current ones, but also hoping it makes the game a little more enticing for new members.

Crimson Shadow
06-20-2011, 21:51
I know the updates are mainly focused on current players, but if the focus isn't on bringing new new players the game will NEVER move forward. No matter how many updates you give the vets.

We ALL know that this game has potential to getting back to a solid member base, but we are ALL TOO **** LAZY TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT! I don't know the financial situation, but my guess just on the game trends, is that if we don't do something now the game won't be around in 2012.

Please guys, lets get out of this funk/routine and do something to fix this game before its too late! It is fixable, but only with ALL of our help.

Calvin74
06-20-2011, 22:25
there was just a reunion set in MD in earth empires so that is a group getting back together and i think there are people there that will come over.
I know ComCap is recruiting a few people from MD and he is in his 1st set there. The more people we can get into that game and into the other tags there the more people we can get over here. when this game was huge there were tons of people from that game that made a huge impact on this game

after another set or two over there i will be pushing to try and get enough of them here to play in a real MD tag (of course I will tell MD that it is to recruit for them so this can be a win win for both)


also i don't think it is really the game that has changed. it has gotten stale because the community has allowed it to get stale. there are not enough people posting on the forums, there are too many forums for people to have to wade through (i honestly think we should go down to 5 forums) and there is no communication OUTSIDE of the game. i never see anyone on msn anymore. i know i don't get on there as much but THAT is what made the game fun.
i can give mr p suggestions to help the game till the end of time but until people start to make it their own, take pride in your clan, your state, and yourself it won't change either.
people here need to start pushing, learning everything they can learn about the game, move around more and most of all just start having fun again!

ranger2112
06-20-2011, 22:45
I am with ya. I quit for a while myself and really came back for the people. Problem is, there is no community any more. No true interaction. I too have wondered where is 101st, Dave anton et al. Heck I don't even know if itty is playing. Random wars is not the answer. The main reason there are no wars is because there isn't any fire in anyone's belly. No one cares.

Look at the market. no food no armament to really speak of. I find myself logging in, seeing no food, buy from the black market and running a mixed state with farms.

I am not a true gamer, in the truest sense of the word. I don't play any other games as I only play this one because of my cyber-friends HERE.

Calvin74
06-20-2011, 23:00
I am with ya. I quit for a while myself and really came back for the people. Problem is, there is no community any more. No true interaction. I too have wondered where is 101st, Dave anton et al. Heck I don't even know if itty is playing. Random wars is not the answer. The main reason there are no wars is because there isn't any fire in anyone's belly. No one cares.

Look at the market. no food no armament to really speak of. I find myself logging in, seeing no food, buy from the black market and running a mixed state with farms.

I am not a true gamer, in the truest sense of the word. I don't play any other games as I only play this one because of my cyber-friends HERE.



you fix the market and the losses in attacks and i will provide the food:P

BeeNo
06-20-2011, 23:01
hey i'm having fun. And for the first time in a long time sky lost a straight networth battle without them being warred. it took work from the whole nation to accomplish but we did it just last month.

anyways, i'm almost always working with at least 1 new player, but taking on too much burns me out.

Gnorf still says he will someday play again, when that will be i have no idea.

we have had a few quiet months in a row here, but hell warring too many months in a row burns me out too. i really believe recruitment threads, or old histories of your nation are needed to give some players the great history of the game, and your nation itself. i remember that was one of the things i love about DAK, gnorfs history of it from its beginning was GREAT!

i know ali's recruitment messages were always extremely well done.

anyways, we have a few vets who still stop in now again. that old SOUL player was here just a few months ago, can't remember her name though. played a set in USA, then made a war nation FEDx i think it was. so they still stop in now again, just maybe not the ones you remember ;)

i'm excited about comp's nation, and i hope it does well.

now i like the idea of throwing a few posts around at random games and i gotta make a plug about blade being a champ. yea blade rock on bro!

and concerning the new attack and missile's in the game, i'm really not liking it. if we were concerned about the top 1 state getting untouchable, that really only happens in the last week of the month. and even then its very doable. just look at the top 10 states of all time.

1 $901.447.779 State: Moradon, Kris(#11)
Spies (8) 12.868.504
Infantry (8) 145.663.507
Tanks (8) 0
Jets(1) 50.013
Bombers(1) 0
SAM(8) 38.012.492
Ships(8) 381.759.496

full stocker can AR break, not easily, but very doable.

1 $770.000.000 cosmic girl, Muinasjutumaa(#4) February, 2009
Spies (8) 17.637.086
Infantry (8) 220.429.152
Tanks (1) 0
Jets(1) 0
Bombers(1) 0
SAM(8) 63.577.989
Ships(8) 307.610.530

an easy GA break.

1 $762.974.395 cosmic girl, Muinasjutumaa(#4)
Spies (8) 14.444.437
Infantry (8) 136.062.753
Tanks (1) 0
Jets(1) 0
Bombers(1) 0
SAM(8) 50.572.256
Ships(8) 315.328.093

another easy GA break.

1 $716.481.929 vussuland, vussu(#41)
Spies (8) 17.637.086
Infantry (8) 220.429.152
Tanks (1) 0
Jets(1) 0
Bombers(1) 0
SAM(8) 63.577.989
Ships(8) 307.610.530

GA break again.

and i can continue on down the line. they all have a weakness somewhere. now can you do it alone with no nation army expanding all month? no. But if you were serious about it absolutely.

point is, do we really want to strip the top state, who invests the time in, of any chance of defending themselves for some random guy?

now i know we haven't had a top state knocked out of the running awhile, but i'm just saying i enjoy making it a challenge to kill the top state in the game. really you only reach close to untouchable with about a week left in the month.

i'm rambling now, but there i said it!

Mr President
06-20-2011, 23:16
Also Crimson a lot of the training of new members happens inside the nations forums. The message system isn't used as much as it use to be back in the day. Now granted I don't train like I use to, mainly cause I just don't have the free time, but I still shoot a message as often as I can, and a lot of others help out as well.

USA is about the only one who really uses their in game forums much. As for getting new members, I would love to advertise but we really don't have it in the budget. Yes we could take a risk and spend the money I have saved to pay for the server, but if it fails we are screwed. We have had a few people purchase a premium account the past couple of months and that has been really nice, but that money needs to go to server costs. I will try to budget some money out of my own pocket to cover a small advertising budget and we'll see how that works out. It's worth a shot I guess..

But unless the members we have really step up and do all they can, I don't see it changing much. Heck I even offered a 100 dollar reward to the member who got the most active referrals and that didn't work.. I'm kinda out of ideas so anything anyone has to offer would be great.

Other than Oil (and that will be a while) I don't have any other main changes to the game in the near future. Of course if someone has a good idea then I will work on getting it implemented. I'll hold off on the loans if that's what you all want. (perhaps we need a vote on this). I just thought it would be something new and interesting to be able to do in the game and maybe spark some wars or stir the pot a little.

Mr President
06-20-2011, 23:46
One other thing I would like to mention.... About a year ago Vbulletin forced existing owners to purchase there new Vb4 version forums. I was still able to own these existing forums, but there is no longer updates or help for them. I did go ahead and buy the new version and installed it on the test server. It has a lot of neat things that help increase usage all tied in one package.. BUT, if we changed over we would have lost a lot of what we have now. Arcade, casino, vbookie, credit system and a few other things we have on here. Now that the new version has been out for a while some of these might be able to reinstalled and the hooks work properly.. But I can't say for sure..

Maybe a new style of forums completely redone would help increase interaction on the forums as well. I have no problem keeping the current ones but I was just putting it out there that I do own the newest version, just don't use it. Maybe we say goodbye to credits and all that.. Doesn't seem like anyone really uses it anymore anyway.

Crimson Shadow
06-20-2011, 23:53
I'm not saying that constant wars are the answer. But we go like 5-6 sets with no wars, then 2 sets with them. I know its a lot harder now, because we have gotten so comfortable with each other that its difficult to come up with a legitimate reason for a war. But they do definitely spark some interest in both the game and forums.

I just want to see people start to care about the game again and taking pride in recruiting. Pres, I wasn't talking about you personally making ads for games. We as the community need to take the initiative and do the advertising themselves.


And yes, I know that the ingame forums have replaced the traditional message system. But there is something about a personal welcoming message that makes you feel more invited than a forum post. Like I said though, the blame also falls on me there because I haven't taken the responsibility to talk to new members either.


I just felt that something needed to be said to stir the pot before things kept going downhill. Because we have been on a long downhill slide and if we don't stop it then who knows where we will end up.

Mr President
06-20-2011, 23:55
I'm not saying that constant wars are the answer. But we go like 5-6 sets with no wars, then 2 sets with them. I know its a lot harder now, because we have gotten so comfortable with each other that its difficult to come up with a legitimate reason for a war. But they do definitely spark some interest in both the game and forums.

I just want to see people start to care about the game again and taking pride in recruiting. Pres, I wasn't talking about you personally making ads for games. We as the community need to take the initiative and do the advertising themselves.


And yes, I know that the ingame forums have replaced the traditional message system. But there is something about a personal welcoming message that makes you feel more invited than a forum post. Like I said though, the blame also falls on me there because I haven't taken the responsibility to talk to new members either.


I just felt that something needed to be said to stir the pot before things kept going downhill. Because we have been on a long downhill slide and if we don't stop it then who knows where we will end up.

agreed.. and thanks for caring :)

Lord Burch
06-21-2011, 00:15
You know what might help a tad? Giving me a chance. I LOVE to war and LOVE to kill. I haven't ever gone main event status because its always a tri-fecta dominance: USA Sky and LoR. DKO/ARC never get off the ground because a get **** for members. Bright and Xav are okay...but not as active as I'd hope. This set is a disaster because the two recruits I hired never moved their ******. Everyone is exclusive. I believe if you elevate some newer young up and coming leaders things may get more interesting. ICN was great, but it formed after DKO's first disbanding. So I believe that in elevating new groups and mentoring them on the job, this game gets hella more fun!

(No insults meant for Xav and Bright. They've got other stuff to deal with in RL)

Ragnar
06-21-2011, 00:49
*Smells a tl;dr!!* er, don't leave!! I got three ideas here!!!!!

From a newbies point of view, the *worst* thing about the game is the fact that every round, all states are deleted except us nice paying players. That's the greatest way to make a game look *really* dead, and I've *never* understood why the states get deleted every set instead of simply reset!!!!!! The last thing you want is the attack page to look like there are few players!!!

Here's an example of what not deleting does. A few months ago I was looking for more round based games to play. I found ww2game, and when I went to the attack page, I was shocked to see a few THOUSAND accounts!!!! So I started playing, and by the time I realized there was maybe 100 active players, I was already hooked. I *really* liked seeing a LOT of players that I could attack and get really nice cash!!! I had joined five days before the three week round ended, and even the inactive accounts had really nice money, and I ended the round ranking...15. I was hooked!!!

If the accounts here were simply reset every round with the state showing up, and some how they were useful for new players, that would really help keep new players from leaving after being here for 10 minutes. In the ww2game game, every one get's income each turn based on the size of their army which makes all the accounts useful. If every account here got just one free extra piece of land every turn, that would give the new players more than enough stuff to do when they start. 144 pieces of land added a day. Low enough to keep us actives from touching the inactive accounts, but enough for the new players to have nice players to go after when they start attacking. And I think it would be a fair advantage for new players that start the round late, since they don't have all those turns to use that were generated before they registered.

About the game changes, I haven't seen very many useful game changes this year, other than ones like a lower time wait on the market, Casher Strat boost, and *maybe* the attack changes. All the UN changes are useless for 90% of us actives since we can't even go in to the UN, unless we make a one player nation!!! I don't see very much use from the loan idea! Nations all seem to do just fine with the tax cash.


there was just a reunion set in MD in earth empires so that is a group getting back together

Earth Empires could *easily* be a gold mine for getting new members here. If some one got really good at the game, in the Alliance version, then had their own alliance that ranked very well, then recruited players to the alliance and then in the alliance, promoted this game every so often, you could easily get a flood of players here.

Here's an idea, if some one here played the one week speed version a few times and got good enough to end the round ranking in the top 10, they could then post their strategy here in as much detail as possible, join the alliance version and make an alliance. Then a bunch of us join the game and join the alliance. (Don't name it Nation Wars, that'll quickly give off the real reason of the alliance!!) We then play the game using your guide, and make the alliance rank pretty close to #1. Then we recruit like crazy to the alliance. And who's not going to say no to an invitation to one of the top 5 ranking alliances??!! Then every so often, we mention this game in the alliance. There's no need to spam forums at all when you got a game called Earth Empires!!!!!! I think a lot of the players would like NW better.

Which version of Earth Empires is MD in?


you fix the market and the losses in attacks and i will provide the food:P

Simply having a bank that was useful longer than 10 days would be enough for me to keep providing food!!! I got 1,043,353,566 food sitting around and collecting dust!!!!! *ducks* We should try just ONE round with no bank cap, and see how it goes. By the 20th of the month we'll easily know!! That would do more good than nation loans!!

kanman
06-21-2011, 01:36
We definitely need more players and more new leaders like Lord Burch. I think the biggest barrier still though is the initial learning curve. There is just a lot to explain. We have a training manual, but it's boring to learn a game through a manual. And all the while, new players see how fast the states of vets grow and get frustrated.

I think we need to give more incentive to both the trainers and trainees. We could set up two "nations" dedicated to training new members and have them compete with each other. New members can automatically be put into one of these two "nations" but can leave at any time. I put nations in quotation marks because these "nations" don't have to be separate nations, they could be a part of existing nations except they have their own section on nation scores. This way, the trainees are competing with others with similar experience levels so how well they play matters and trainers will want their trainees to win so there is incentive to put in more effort. Who these trainees are can rotate through rounds and they can be nations looking for new members or players like Lord Burch looking to form a new nation.

BeeNo
06-21-2011, 02:37
i've actually been considering setting up my own new player training nation.

@burch, i remember a few months back i had a little nation called bro and tried to form an alliance with you. We went to war to support you but unfortunately it ended up just being us against the nation you randomly tried to attack. your restart didn't even join us :(

if you want to build your nation, it starts with follow threw, if someone goes out on a limb for you, you need to be willing to at least stand with them on the edge of the branch.

CommunistCapitalism
06-21-2011, 03:14
Crimson, i read through the whole post, and I have a few comments.

First off i'm glad that there are still members like you fighting for this game.

Secondly, I know that it is frustrating that these older veterans have slipped from our grasp. One of them you mentioned is gnorf. I have tried over the past 2 years to find a way to get in contact with this guy but he never comes on msn, aim, responds to private messages on Dak forums, or anything. I think they have just LITERALLY fallen off the grid.

I think the best way to get a community going is have every active member bring one friend or new player back every set. I'm not talking bringing tons of people or wasting tons of time on forums or in other games. Just get in contact with a friend, and get him to come play!

I think that another way to sort of mix up the fun is try to mix up the nations a little bit. While it is cool to see USA, Sky, LoR, set in and set out, perhaps a way to generate new interest and enthusiasm is to break these nations down and start some fresh ones with different people. Obviously this is not really possible to enforce but if we shuffled the nation it would encourage more communication and we would get to know some people that we wouldn't ordinarily know.

I also think that you should add a new bonus into the game that would give 2 turns per day if the player posts on forums. That way even anyone who is slightly competitive would want to try to get these extra couple turns. Heck i would even say the premium account players should have to do this.

northbabylon
06-21-2011, 03:46
Calvin, I just talked to you on msn a few days ago! Sadly my computer seems to have died or something since I can't even get past the home screen. But you and I have tried to recruit from MD a few times before.
If we can get 1/10 of MD to tag up that's like 6-7 players. I tried getting them to make an mD tag before. But it never went through. I know blade is from earth as well so maybe between the people that do play. We can start off with just an earth tag and see where it goes from there

Lord Burch
06-21-2011, 04:37
i've actually been considering setting up my own new player training nation.

@burch, i remember a few months back i had a little nation called bro and tried to form an alliance with you. We went to war to support you but unfortunately it ended up just being us against the nation you randomly tried to attack. your restart didn't even join us :(

if you want to build your nation, it starts with follow threw, if someone goes out on a limb for you, you need to be willing to at least stand with them on the edge of the branch.

Yeah, I was being an idiot then...kinda took a break to evaluate my mistakes, and learned them.

totte
06-21-2011, 09:10
Alright, here is kind of a long rant (which could be covered in another thread, I'm not really sure because I'm only semi-active right now and haven't looked through other recent threads). Not really sure where this thread should fall into since it falls into suggestions, game, and community haha.

IF YOU DON'T READ ANYTHING ELSE, AT LEAST READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH!!!

Anyways, how many of you are starting to feel like playing this game is becoming a chore more than a game? I know that for me I'm basically logging on at the same time every day, playing turns, logging off. The game and community (which was the biggest thing the game has/had going for it) are both dead.

The game is predictable...Moradon wins the set with a bunch of sky states up there, same states play top 10-20 all set long, same states stock, same military unit horded. Can't really war to add excitement because there either aren't enough states to war and the FS wins or you run the risk of pushing others away by randomly warring them and "ruining their set." The community is dead too. I know its the summer months so things are almost always more quiet than they usually are, but we are averaging like 3 posts a day from a community that used to put out 20-30 a day even with dwindling numbers.

There is NO interaction with new members either. Every set there are new members in USA that play like half a set running mixed strats/armies then they just leave. No attempt was made to contact and/or help out the player (blame falls on me here too). Now maybe there has been with private messages, but back in the day (old WoW) there would have been FWed messages welcoming/encouraging and helping out the new player.

We have become too content with doing our own routines and the game has become stagnant, which is the biggest hindrance to our game. No gameplay update is going to bring in substantial members, it relies on US to make things exciting again. Try to think about this from a new player's mentality. You join the game, the market is bone dry, only the top 10 states numbers (NW) change, everyone else's numbers stays the exact same because they are stocking or not playing. There are no dead states to show that something is happening, just a bunch of boring, inactive ones.


This is what got me hooked to the game...I went over to my cousins house who logged into the game to check and make sure his state was still alive because his nation was at war. He also checked to see when the next strike was and who their target was. Then he logged off. That was all it took to let me see how awesome of a game this was. What do new members have to look forward to now? Watching someone play 100 turns and then bank their money? Or be impressed that they are in 17th place....until they find out that its out of 40 active states? Let's face it, there is no excitement in the game any more and there won't be as long as we keep our routines and don't have any wars. And that won't change until we get more members.

Pres, I love the new additions that you keep making to the game, but look at it rationally, these aren't going to bring in hundreds, or even tens of members. With the low player base noone is going change their routine. Everyone will keep doing the same predictable thing and the game will eventually die.

So what can we do about this?

First of all, what happened to all of the old players that just randomly left? When we first opened this (NW) up to estonians there were about 50 that played (only 10 remain). What happened to them? Where did the other common people go? The MAGGIOs, dbozmens, ooga boogs, Kenshins, Alis, Devils, etc. Or the people that used to show up every couple of sets and play then leave randomly for a few more: Legends, jameswheels, Vialis. Or what happened to the really old vets who haven't played since NW opened: The CurLys, gnorfs, Multi-182s, zionzeypher, etc. Has anyone tried contacting these people since NW opened?

Secondly, the only thing that can probably save this game is ADVERTISING. Let's face it, we have probably gone as far as we can with word of mouth. So why can't we try other ways of drawing people to us. Joining other forums just to make a post about Nation-Wars or making an account to send Private messages to other members about the game. Worst-case scenario is that you waste 5 minutes of your time and get banned from a game/forum that you never would have done anything with anyways.



I'm not trying to be over-critical, but its something that we are ALL doing and until it changes, the game never will no matter what changes Pres brings to the game.

So here is my challenge to EACH and EVERYONE of you, make an account in a random game and either make a post in their forums or PM a few of their members advertising the game to them. Say that big changes are coming and that the game is about to be relaunched (because it is when the new attacks come out). If you get banned, big deal...not like you were ever would have visited that website if it weren't for recruiting anyways.


Thanks for listening guys,
-Crimson Shadow



PS - I have sent a message to all nation leaders regarding this thread to have them forward it throughout their respective nations. If you haven't gotten one in your nation then please spread the word to the other players in your nation so we can try to get as much awareness about this issue as possible.

i hear you but the problem for me is that i these days just dont have the time to be as active as i once was i barely have time to play a lazy state...

i used to be rather active when i started wow in 2001 sometime or other :) had my own nation running wich was very active... now the reason for it being so active was that first of all we had great internal coms everyone had icq for example and we had our own irc chan to hang around in and an off game nation forum site. The game comunity was very active aswell due to the fact that it also had an irc chan that you could just idle in thus people who had question could get instant help for example and ppl got to know each other.
now for me and i'm rather sure it goes for calvin to we dont play the game to be the best we play it because of the friends we have made ;)

Mr President
06-21-2011, 11:24
*Smells a tl;dr!!* er, don't leave!! I got three ideas here!!!!!

From a newbies point of view, the *worst* thing about the game is the fact that every round, all states are deleted except us nice paying players. That's the greatest way to make a game look *really* dead, and I've *never* understood why the states get deleted every set instead of simply reset!!!!!! The last thing you want is the attack page to look like there are few players!!!

Here's an example of what not deleting does. A few months ago I was looking for more round based games to play. I found ww2game, and when I went to the attack page, I was shocked to see a few THOUSAND accounts!!!! So I started playing, and by the time I realized there was maybe 100 active players, I was already hooked. I *really* liked seeing a LOT of players that I could attack and get really nice cash!!! I had joined five days before the three week round ended, and even the inactive accounts had really nice money, and I ended the round ranking...15. I was hooked!!!

If the accounts here were simply reset every round with the state showing up, and some how they were useful for new players, that would really help keep new players from leaving after being here for 10 minutes. In the ww2game game, every one get's income each turn based on the size of their army which makes all the accounts useful. If every account here got just one free extra piece of land every turn, that would give the new players more than enough stuff to do when they start. 144 pieces of land added a day. Low enough to keep us actives from touching the inactive accounts, but enough for the new players to have nice players to go after when they start attacking. And I think it would be a fair advantage for new players that start the round late, since they don't have all those turns to use that were generated before they registered.

About the game changes, I haven't seen very many useful game changes this year, other than ones like a lower time wait on the market, Casher Strat boost, and *maybe* the attack changes. All the UN changes are useless for 90% of us actives since we can't even go in to the UN, unless we make a one player nation!!! I don't see very much use from the loan idea! Nations all seem to do just fine with the tax cash.



Earth Empires could *easily* be a gold mine for getting new members here. If some one got really good at the game, in the Alliance version, then had their own alliance that ranked very well, then recruited players to the alliance and then in the alliance, promoted this game every so often, you could easily get a flood of players here.

Here's an idea, if some one here played the one week speed version a few times and got good enough to end the round ranking in the top 10, they could then post their strategy here in as much detail as possible, join the alliance version and make an alliance. Then a bunch of us join the game and join the alliance. (Don't name it Nation Wars, that'll quickly give off the real reason of the alliance!!) We then play the game using your guide, and make the alliance rank pretty close to #1. Then we recruit like crazy to the alliance. And who's not going to say no to an invitation to one of the top 5 ranking alliances??!! Then every so often, we mention this game in the alliance. There's no need to spam forums at all when you got a game called Earth Empires!!!!!! I think a lot of the players would like NW better.

Which version of Earth Empires is MD in?



Simply having a bank that was useful longer than 10 days would be enough for me to keep providing food!!! I got 1,043,353,566 food sitting around and collecting dust!!!!! *ducks* We should try just ONE round with no bank cap, and see how it goes. By the 20th of the month we'll easily know!! That would do more good than nation loans!!

I really like a few of these ideas.. Great post! I think making it not delete states for everyone is a good idea and I also think adding a little land per turn for new members is good as well. The land thing we can work out on a seperate suggestion. We would need to make it not to much to really matter, but yet enough to help.. The bank cap issue is one that we are looking at. I don't think an unlimited bank would be the best way to go but maybe an increase would help. We don't want everyone stocking all set then jumping at the end.






Crimson, i read through the whole post, and I have a few comments.

First off i'm glad that there are still members like you fighting for this game.

Secondly, I know that it is frustrating that these older veterans have slipped from our grasp. One of them you mentioned is gnorf. I have tried over the past 2 years to find a way to get in contact with this guy but he never comes on msn, aim, responds to private messages on Dak forums, or anything. I think they have just LITERALLY fallen off the grid.

I think the best way to get a community going is have every active member bring one friend or new player back every set. I'm not talking bringing tons of people or wasting tons of time on forums or in other games. Just get in contact with a friend, and get him to come play!

I think that another way to sort of mix up the fun is try to mix up the nations a little bit. While it is cool to see USA, Sky, LoR, set in and set out, perhaps a way to generate new interest and enthusiasm is to break these nations down and start some fresh ones with different people. Obviously this is not really possible to enforce but if we shuffled the nation it would encourage more communication and we would get to know some people that we wouldn't ordinarily know.

I also think that you should add a new bonus into the game that would give 2 turns per day if the player posts on forums. That way even anyone who is slightly competitive would want to try to get these extra couple turns. Heck i would even say the premium account players should have to do this.

I can add something in for bonuses where if you post that day you receive your bonus. But, I worry that people will just come on and post a one word post to get the bonus.

Mr President
06-21-2011, 11:33
To go one step further on the not deleting states and adding land per turn to new people, WHAT IF: We also added land to inactive states and after the 2nd week of inactivity it pulls them out of protection and allow them to be be attacked. (at random times so people can't sit and wait for grabs at the exact moment)

This would offer grabs for new smaller states but these would be out of reach for the larger states. Granted stockers would be able to grab them but we could figure something out for that. This increases the amount of land to grab and also makes the game look more active.

Question is, if you are an active member and take a set off and your state gets grabbed even though your not playing, would you care?

Nat22
06-21-2011, 11:47
To go one step further on the not deleting states and adding land per turn to new people, WHAT IF: We also added land to inactive states and after the 2nd week of inactivity it pulls them out of protection and allow them to be be attacked. (at random times so people can't sit and wait for grabs at the exact moment)

This would offer grabs for new smaller states but these would be out of reach for the larger states. Granted stockers would be able to grab them but we could figure something out for that. This increases the amount of land to grab and also makes the game look more active.

Question is, if you are an active member and take a set off and your state gets grabbed even though your not playing, would you care?

I like this idea. I think that in terms of actives taking a set off, I personally wouldn't care if I've taken a set off that, if this was implemented, I was used to aid the new players...

Maybe only have the players with the new player mark or say less than 6 months old accounts (obviously this might not work if older players come back with new accounts) allowed to grab these states? I don't know how hard that would be to code. I guess you could also highlight these inactive grab states (similar to the way dead states are red) to make it easier again.

With adding land, I think new players getting some land a turn is fine but would have to be small. I think for the inactive states gaining land, maybe have them gain more so it is a better grab for the new players, say every day they gain 1k land or something, either all in one go OR randomly over the 24 hours.

CommunistCapitalism
06-21-2011, 13:35
I can add something in for bonuses where if you post that day you receive your bonus. But, I worry that people will just come on and post a one word post to get the bonus.

set a requirement on the forums that each post has to be atleast X amount of characters that way they can't do that one word type of post thing

Ragnar
06-21-2011, 15:29
WHAT IF: We also added land to inactive states and after the 2nd week of inactivity it pulls them out of protection and allow them to be be attacked. (at random times so people can't sit and wait for grabs at the exact moment)

This would offer grabs for new smaller states but these would be out of reach for the larger states.

About random times, that would simply make it harder to do. No larger state is going to go for the inactive states when the active states got *way* more land and new stats only gain one land per turn, unless you're thinking of giving them way more land! Also, it won't help new players if they try to attack...only to find out they can't attack them!!

Inactives gaining just one piece of land per turn would be high enough to give new players great targets, and low enough for us advanced players to not even go for them.

You can do a simple one line code in the cron script to do it all, the simple way, with just inactives getting land. Something like

$db->query("UPDATE users SET land=land+1 WHERE food=100 AND inactivedays > 15");

after it's changed so accounts don't get deleted, but just get reset to default settings exactly like us supporters get. I don't think any one would not donate simply because all non-supporter nations don't get deleted every round, when it would help hew players!!

In the code above, food 100 would be how much food we start with each round, so us actives keep the 200 turn protection, and accounts that used to be active but then become inactive on day 10 after they have got a lot of land will lose the protection when the next round starts after they become inactive.


With adding land, I think new players getting some land a turn is fine but would have to be small. I think for the inactive states gaining land, maybe have them gain more so it is a better grab for the new players, say every day they gain 1k land or something, either all in one go OR randomly over the 24 hours.

I wouldn't call 1,000 land a day small!!! That's HUGE!!!!!!! One land per turn is 3,888 land gained over a complete round vs 27,000.

Mr President
06-21-2011, 16:00
About random times, that would simply make it harder to do. No larger state is going to go for the inactive states when the active states got *way* more land and new stats only gain one land per turn, unless you're thinking of giving them way more land! Also, it won't help new players if they try to attack...only to find out they can't attack them!!

Inactives gaining just one piece of land per turn would be high enough to give new players great targets, and low enough for us advanced players to not even go for them.

You can do a simple one line code in the cron script to do it all, the simple way, with just inactives getting land. Something like

$db->query("UPDATE users SET land=land+1 WHERE food=100 AND inactivedays > 15");

after it's changed so accounts don't get deleted, but just get reset to default settings exactly like us supporters get. I don't think any one would not donate simply because all non-supporter nations don't get deleted every round, when it would help hew players!!

In the code above, food 100 would be how much food we start with each round, so us actives keep the 200 turn protection, and accounts that used to be active but then become inactive on day 10 after they have got a lot of land will lose the protection when the next round starts after they become inactive.



I wouldn't call 1,000 land a day small!!! That's HUGE!!!!!!! One land per turn is 3,888 land gained over a complete round vs 27,000.

Coming out of protection would have to be set at random times. We can do groups of say 5 for example but if all of a sudden 100 states are out of protection and bottom feeder will just hit them all.. And trust me, if a state sits low and stocks and can hit a state with no losses they will. lol

Coding it in is not an issue. As you mentioned it's a simple cron script and it will be based on a couple variables. I really do like this idea as not only does it offer more grabs it also makes the game look more active. Plus it beats the automated bots that have been floating around :)

Nat22
06-21-2011, 16:10
I wouldn't call 1,000 land a day small!!! That's HUGE!!!!!!! One land per turn is 3,888 land gained over a complete round vs 27,000.

I never said 1k land was small... I said it should be more than what the new players gain - which should be small, which you also covered in your post. I like your idea for gaining 1 land per turn or maybe 2 per turn.

I also didn't categorically say, "give them 1k land per day", it was merely a figure thrown out to display the need for a higher gain for inactive states than new players.

Also I think with this idea, the need to take into account that the new players will get grabbed and so will the inactives. Thus, although they are gaining 3,888 and if we use the 1k land as an example 27k (obviously this won't be the actual number if it is implemented) they will lose land too.

Ragnar
06-21-2011, 17:45
Coming out of protection would have to be set at random times. We can do groups of say 5 for example but if all of a sudden 100 states are out of protection and bottom feeder will just hit them all.. And trust me, if a state sits low and stocks and can hit a state with no losses they will.

Would you be able to use the UNIX time stamp to tell the game when they registered? Then they could come out of protection mode almost exactly 14 days after they become inactive, just up to 10 minutes off, all through out the day, and not all at the same time.

Even if it can't all be worked out by the time the next round starts, maybe at least get it set to not deleting all the stats at the end of this round, so we can start now on getting the number of listed states increased. And since this would only effect inactive accounts, it could even be something that's completed and added while the rounds going.


Plus it beats the automated bots that have been floating around

At this other game that I found and mentioned here as an example of not deleting users, we love the bots!!! They provide a ton of money, and they have a very small military = no damage for us!!!! http://forums.nation-wars.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I would guess that out of '3,150 active players' 2,500 are bots, 500 are inactives, and maybe 150 are actives. The game would be dead if it wasn't for the bots providing us with money!!! And they make the game look *very* popular!!! Once you find out there are less than 200 actives, you're hooked!!

lol I think I totally hijacked this thread with this idea!!!!

Crimson Shadow
06-21-2011, 19:25
Secondly, I know that it is frustrating that these older veterans have slipped from our grasp. One of them you mentioned is gnorf. I have tried over the past 2 years to find a way to get in contact with this guy but he never comes on msn, aim, responds to private messages on Dak forums, or anything. I think they have just LITERALLY fallen off the grid.

I think the best way to get a community going is have every active member bring one friend or new player back every set. I'm not talking bringing tons of people or wasting tons of time on forums or in other games. Just get in contact with a friend, and get him to come play!

I doubt bringing in friends will help us out very much. We have taken the word of mouth tactic as far as it will carry us and it always ends up unsuccessful. I know I have asked all of my friends at least 5 times to give it a try, but they see the game is text based and are immediately turned off. We need to focus on a community of other people who still enjoy this type of game.

And yes, I know it is almost impossible to reach the old vets. I have tried countless times to get through some of them, I just didn't know if anyone else had any means of contacting them since MSN/AIM/emails aren't working.


I think that another way to sort of mix up the fun is try to mix up the nations a little bit. While it is cool to see USA, Sky, LoR, set in and set out, perhaps a way to generate new interest and enthusiasm is to break these nations down and start some fresh ones with different people. Obviously this is not really possible to enforce but if we shuffled the nation it would encourage more communication and we would get to know some people that we wouldn't ordinarily know.

I was thinking about starting up NS again next set, but like Totte I just don't have the time to be as fully active as I can be until summer is over. Thats why I was hoping to focus on recruiting rather than myself starting a new nation.


i used to be rather active when i started wow in 2001 sometime or other :) had my own nation running wich was very active... now the reason for it being so active was that first of all we had great internal coms everyone had icq for example and we had our own irc chan to hang around in and an off game nation forum site. The game comunity was very active aswell due to the fact that it also had an irc chan that you could just idle in thus people who had question could get instant help for example and ppl got to know each other.
now for me and i'm rather sure it goes for calvin to we dont play the game to be the best we play it because of the friends we have made ;)

I think we tried to get irc up and running for USA war strikes like 2 years ago, but you had to pay to get a working version. We tried to use the free version, but it kept giving us corrupted files and errors. Perhaps something like this would help players to stick around longer than just to play turns and log off.


Question is, if you are an active member and take a set off and your state gets grabbed even though your not playing, would you care?

Why should they care? If you havent logged on and played a turn in 15 days, I don't think you really had much of a chance of winning the set. If the question was would they care if we logged onto their account and played their turns, then you would have an argument. But if you get upset because your account got kicked from protection after a half-set of inactivity then maybe you should have played your turns in the first place.

Calvin74
06-21-2011, 21:09
crimson
go to mir.com and just download mirc

we can work on getting a NW room setup
maybe mr p can look at having a server that runs through here
i know earth uses irc.earthempires.com
so maybe we can get a nw one and then have clans that each have their own room to chat and have war chats and also just a general room people can hang out in:)

Calvin74
06-21-2011, 21:47
as to what totte said he is mostly right
there is nothing in this game that i haven't accomplished at least 10 times over.
i have shown i can net
i have warred
i have led the best nations

what really is left
i stuck around in wow b/c i felt i owed svenn and b/c of the friends
i play nw to help Mr P since i think he needs it:P and for the company. i play with my friends and we just kinda mess around
we invited a 5 min a day strat that gives a top ten finish:P

i don't have it in me to completely train a guy from scratch and i dont think it would be fair to that player. i have done it too many times in the past and sunk too much of my life into the game. i am more than willing to take on anyone that has a basic understanding of the game and expand their knowledge and give them opportunities they haven;t had before.
this set ragnar actually took us up on our offer to play in CR and he has said he will get his best finish ever by a wide margin.


i would be more than happy to teach anyone any aspect of the game. not to brag but i don't think there are many people if any that have my understanding or knowledge of the game (granted this is b/c i have way way more experience than anyone:P)

Lord Burch
06-21-2011, 21:54
as to what totte said he is mostly right
there is nothing in this game that i haven't accomplished at least 10 times over.
i have shown i can net
i have warred
i have led the best nations

what really is left
i stuck around in wow b/c i felt i owed svenn and b/c of the friends
i play nw to help Mr P since i think he needs it:P and for the company. i play with my friends and we just kinda mess around
we invited a 5 min a day strat that gives a top ten finish:P

i don't have it in me to completely train a guy from scratch and i dont think it would be fair to that player. i have done it too many times in the past and sunk too much of my life into the game. i am more than willing to take on anyone that has a basic understanding of the game and expand their knowledge and give them opportunities they haven;t had before.
this set ragnar actually took us up on our offer to play in CR and he has said he will get his best finish ever by a wide margin.


i would be more than happy to teach anyone any aspect of the game. not to brag but i don't think there are many people if any that have my understanding or knowledge of the game (granted this is b/c i have way way more experience than anyone:P)

Personally I would LOVE to have someone mentor me right. I'm still wrapping up in my head how the heck someone can get 200 mill in one set. (BTW Dogma, I have yet to say how appreciative I am that you taught me most of the true game where LoR failed.)

Another idea I thought of is maybe giving EVERY attack mode 2 turns at war...

Calvin74
06-21-2011, 22:26
Personally I would LOVE to have someone mentor me right. I'm still wrapping up in my head how the heck someone can get 200 mill in one set. (BTW Dogma, I have yet to say how appreciative I am that you taught me most of the true game where LoR failed.)

Another idea I thought of is maybe giving EVERY attack mode 2 turns at war...

i would be more than willing to teach you HOWEVER when you are in my tag i ask/demand that you follow my rules
no harmful ops or harmful attacks OUTSIDE of war or my specific permission...

Lord Burch
06-21-2011, 23:50
i would be more than willing to teach you HOWEVER when you are in my tag i ask/demand that you follow my rules
no harmful ops or harmful attacks OUTSIDE of war or my specific permission...

Which tag is your tag next round?

Calvin74
06-22-2011, 00:06
Which tag is your tag next round?

CR
but we are still formulating plans for next set:)

Lord Burch
06-22-2011, 01:26
CR
but we are still formulating plans for next set:)
Alright, see ya there...anywho, back on topic...:p

ranger2112
06-22-2011, 21:32
i really want this game to succeed as so many have give so much to keep it going. (not me obviously) all i can do is play and try to not suck too bad

Bright
06-23-2011, 22:32
I could mentor someone, but it would probably be only 1 person at a time- any more than that and I can't guarantee they'll have sufficient time from me to pick up everything. The plus side would be that one person gets to know the game inside and out.

I like the idea of adding land to inactives, you could definitely use that to make things look better, rather than one tier of high netters, another of middle of the road people, stockers, and finally the 1000 NW/100 land states.

A market bot could be helpful in sets where there's not a lot of indies going on, if only to do little sales here and there, mostly of the unused units- if you move to grouping upgrades, this could be useful since there's not many people producing missiles/bombers/tanks.

I think another vet related issue is that since no one really does MSN/AIM much these days, there's no incentive for people like me to log on. Back in those days I was always on because of this game, or because of my wife (back when we were still doing the distance thing). Now I need a reason to sign on, otherwise I'm lurking here all the time. :cool:

Calvin74
06-24-2011, 00:32
I could mentor someone, but it would probably be only 1 person at a time- any more than that and I can't guarantee they'll have sufficient time from me to pick up everything. The plus side would be that one person gets to know the game inside and out.

I like the idea of adding land to inactives, you could definitely use that to make things look better, rather than one tier of high netters, another of middle of the road people, stockers, and finally the 1000 NW/100 land states.

A market bot could be helpful in sets where there's not a lot of indies going on, if only to do little sales here and there, mostly of the unused units- if you move to grouping upgrades, this could be useful since there's not many people producing missiles/bombers/tanks.

I think another vet related issue is that since no one really does MSN/AIM much these days, there's no incentive for people like me to log on. Back in those days I was always on because of this game, or because of my wife (back when we were still doing the distance thing). Now I need a reason to sign on, otherwise I'm lurking here all the time. :cool:

pretty sure we still have a market bot that doubles everything except food that gets sold...

i agree on the msn/aim thing but if mr p got us a mirc server that would be awesome:P

Ragnar
06-24-2011, 05:04
We also added land to inactive states and after the 2nd week of inactivity it pulls them out of protection and allow them to be be attacked. (at random times so people can't sit and wait for grabs at the exact moment)

Instead of messing with trying to make them come out at random times, how about just making it so that if you have 1,000,000 or more NW, you can't attack them at all, sort of like being placed in semi-protection mode!!

Ragnar
06-28-2011, 21:53
Nice job!! All the inactive accounts are still there!! Once the inactive land bonus is added, then newbies can have a good start.

Mr President
06-28-2011, 22:08
:) We will start with the current settings for the auto states and then adjust as needed.

CommunistCapitalism
06-29-2011, 00:53
you should make the change from 2 weeks to a week or so. Do you think this might add too much of a bonus to farmers who can just sit in GDN and farm inactives all set?

Calvin74
06-29-2011, 01:00
you should make the change from 2 weeks to a week or so. Do you think this might add too much of a bonus to farmers who can just sit in GDN and farm inactives all set?

i really shouldn't take all this hate against farmers personally but i am starting too simply b/c it is people hating on a strat i came up with and perfected long before most people played this game:P
there is nothing cheap or immoral about this strat

also if there are people sitting in GDN farming they are doing it wrong and i can promise you that no top 20 farmer was in gdn more than the last day...

so no there aren't gdn farmers that would sit there and farm the inactives..
yes the farmers might hit them but in CR we stick to our hit/retal policy and we will not abuse what mr p has put in place.

Ragnar
06-29-2011, 02:03
Do you think this might add too much of a bonus to farmers who can just sit in GDN and farm inactives all set?

You obviously don't know much about GDN, GB, and farmers!!! As a farmer, you WANT to be attacked, cause if you don't, you get screwed royally!!!! That's why none of us were in GDN until about the end of the round.