View Full Version : July 4th 1776-Aug. 2nd 2011
Mrmcjoey15
07-27-2011, 03:26
It was a good run America. I may be naive and misinformed but looks like there wont be a deal within the week and if there is i hear they will most likely downgrade our credit anyway.
Its just sick how Republicans are using the stupidity of average voters to hold America hostage just so they can regain the presidents office in 2012. I only can only pray that people see it for what is really happening.
The whole world will be screwed if the US defaults. Obama should simply force through a democrat plan that the republicans hate (big tax hikes on the rich) with an executive order.
I think they'll make a deal at the very last minute.
BladeEWG
07-27-2011, 07:02
I agree, it will be a last minute deal.
That way they can all puff out their chests and say
"we did it"
So much drama and its all political
Soviet Russia
07-27-2011, 10:14
thats USA.. not Italy or Greece.. whole world would suffer if they fail:thumbdown:
Mr President
07-27-2011, 12:31
Its just sick how Republicans are using the stupidity of average voters to hold America hostage just so they can regain the presidents office in 2012. I only can only pray that people see it for what is really happening.
Um how about years and years of Republicans and Democrats foolishly spending more than we have on wars and welfare and everything else that should have been under control years before. This has to end sometime. We can't keep raising the ceiling so we can keep spending more of what we don't have.
Americans need to wake up and stop worrying about their **** Iphones and everything else they feel they are ENTITLED to have. We need to stop electing freaking idiots and elect people who are the best choice and not just the lessor or two evils. THEN after they are elected, hold them to their word! We need to stop Presidential donations as all that creates is "you owe me" attitude. And another main thing that needs to be done is, we need to make the 51% who don't pay taxes, start paying.
Enough is enough and when the hell is people going to wake up. It's always easy to sit back and blame it on the politicians but last time I checked, we are the ones who vote them in. If you want change it starts with you!
Mr President
07-27-2011, 12:35
Also, it is not the end of America.. There will be a deal that is made. Aug 2nd is a fictitious deadline set so the news would have something to talk about 24hrs a freaking day.. We will not default on our loans and a deal will be made.
My hope is people really pay attention to what is happening and really start pushing for a change.. If not then it's only a matter of time till we do fail and can't pay for the loans.. Won't be long and we'll be at 25 Trillion, 30 Trillion ect ect.. Stop raising the ceiling and make these bastards accountable. It's not like I can call my credit card company and say well i think I will raise my limit to 150k today.. Why should the Govt be able to?
how would you cut the deficit then pres?
taxes! simple idea for a new and fair sort of tax tax system you say for example minimum 30% tax for everyone of course increseing the more you make.
Mrmcjoey15
07-27-2011, 13:51
Um how about years and years of Republicans and Democrats foolishly spending more than we have on wars and welfare and everything else that should have been under control years before. This has to end sometime. We can't keep raising the ceiling so we can keep spending more of what we don't have.
Americans need to wake up and stop worrying about their **** Iphones and everything else they feel they are ENTITLED to have. We need to stop electing freaking idiots and elect people who are the best choice and not just the lessor or two evils. THEN after they are elected, hold them to their word! We need to stop Presidential donations as all that creates is "you owe me" attitude. And another main thing that needs to be done is, we need to make the 51% who don't pay taxes, start paying.
Enough is enough and when the hell is people going to wake up. It's always easy to sit back and blame it on the politicians but last time I checked, we are the ones who vote them in. If you want change it starts with you!
Lol pretty sure it was Republicans who voted for multi trillion dollar wars that were still stuck in not Democrats but mmkay.
And i voted to keep a Dem. led House so ive done my part.
Mr President
07-27-2011, 14:26
how would you cut the deficit then pres?
There are several things I would do and when I get home tonight I'll make a detailed post of a few of them :-)
Lol pretty sure it was Republicans who voted for multi trillion dollar wars that were still stuck in not Democrats but mmkay.
And i voted to keep a Dem. led House so ive done my part.
This is one things I'm saying... Everyone wants to blame everyone else. When does it stop? When do people say enough of the political BS, we don't care who is to blame as we ALL are to blame but let's start making smart decisions and get us back on track.
We can't fix this all over night, but we can be making better choices that in time, will get us out of this and make our country stronger. Republicans are just as bad as the Democrats with spending habits.
Mr President
07-27-2011, 14:27
Also, I'm fine with raising the ceiling.. But until we start catching up on our bills why should we continue to raise it and spend more?
ranger2112
07-27-2011, 16:12
It was a good run America. I may be naive and misinformed but looks like there wont be a deal within the week and if there is i hear they will most likely downgrade our credit anyway.
Its just sick how Republicans are using the stupidity of average voters to hold America hostage just so they can regain the presidents office in 2012. I only can only pray that people see it for what is really happening.
i am sick of how the dems are using the old and vets for their own ends. the truth is, if no ceiling raise, we still have enough capital coming in to pay for SS, vets benefits etc, just not all the pork. why increase taxes on the rich when they already pay 80% of the taxes now. how many here have received a tax REFUND? how many of Americans are on welfare, ss etc? i know of people who make 6k a year, have a few kids and get 5-10 times BACK more than they payed in.
why should we give more tax money until the GOVT learns how to spend what they have now responsibly?
the Dems- give us more money so we can blow it faster. Obama's plan for the US is nearly complete. get ready, boys and girls, the end is nigh if the right caves in and allows the puppet in chief to win this fiscal battle. personally, i have plenty of ammo when the whole thing blows up. if things stay on the current course, IT WILL BLOW UP
Mrmcjoey15
07-27-2011, 16:56
i am sick of how the dems are using the old and vets for their own ends. the truth is, if no ceiling raise, we still have enough capital coming in to pay for SS, vets benefits etc, just not all the pork. why increase taxes on the rich when they already pay 80% of the taxes now. how many here have received a tax REFUND? how many of Americans are on welfare, ss etc? i know of people who make 6k a year, have a few kids and get 5-10 times BACK more than they payed in.
why should we give more tax money until the GOVT learns how to spend what they have now responsibly?
the Dems- give us more money so we can blow it faster. Obama's plan for the US is nearly complete. get ready, boys and girls, the end is nigh if the right caves in and allows the puppet in chief to win this fiscal battle. personally, i have plenty of ammo when the whole thing blows up. if things stay on the current course, IT WILL BLOW UP
Have you seen what Republican Paul Ryan wants to do to cut Medicare and Medicade? You say the Dems are the ones using the elderly is just a sick joke. The whole plan for Republicans is to cut cut cut. Im sorry but that may have worked in your day but the worlds a different place now.
And you say not enough for the "pork" it sounds like you dont even know what else they are spending money on. And you talk about the people who make 6k a year that get back 5-10 times what they put in you have to realize that thats 5-10 times is included in their 6k a year, they anent making 30-60k a year when they should be making 6k.. they use the money from things like food stamps to make up that 6k.
Obama comes into the white house After 8 years and Trillions of dollars spent on a war without anything done to make up for the money that the war was costing. Instead Bush says hey wealthy have a tax cut what do we need revenue for? not this trillion dollar war.
Furthermore the previous president who did nothing to regulate trade and lending let the bank get in over their heads. So what does Obama HAVE to do? spend money to bail out the mess Bush left behind.
And you talk about spending money responsibly? A Health Care Reform that gives millions of Americans affordable health care, and a bail out that saved the US economy from a disaster worse than the great depression is not responsible but a decade long war with no clear objective (unitll obama) that costs trillions of dollars is responsible spending? I cant say i see your logic there.
And the sad fact of the matter is that Corporations dont pay taxes. The top 1% of Americans hold almost 40% of all the wealth in America. So to not raise taxes at least back to what they were during Clintons presidency (cough when we had a surplus in revenue) is an attack on the middle class. If the top 1% of wealthy people in america put all their money together they could: completely remove Americas debt, Buy a 16k dollar car for every family in america, and pay the mortgage on every home in america FOR 14 Months. You say its unfair to take money from the rich but you want to cut programs that help the poor and disabled is that fair to you?
“Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment?"-Ronald Reagan
The Republican party has been far to corrupted by wealth and power. When you have a party thats #1 goal is to make the president a 1 term president they are failing the duty to the real #1 The United States of America.
And @ Mr. President.
I think that Gov. spending is a very misunderstood concept. People see the Gov. spending money and they automatically think that the money they spend doesnt help them. Which could be farther from the truth. With a few exceptions the money most administrations apart from Bush the 2nd have all been used to better america. But we get to the problem of a muti trillion dollar war and a lack of regulations in the lending markets that all of a sudden tax payers are seeing their money go straight to banks and other organizations and they say hey why are they getting my money. So to think that Gov. spending needs to stop is ridiculous. We just need to give it time to settle out after 8 years of fiscal stupidity. And raising the debt ceiling is nothing new or special its just a ploy to get the president out of office. And let me tell you, its alot easier to put a face on blame (Obama) than the many Republicans of the House of Representatives.
ranger2112
07-27-2011, 17:33
Have you seen what Republican Paul Ryan wants to do to cut Medicare and Medicade? You say the Dems are the ones using the elderly is just a sick joke. The whole plan for Republicans is to cut cut cut. Im sorry but that may have worked in your day but the worlds a different place now.
And you say not enough for the "pork" it sounds like you dont even know what else they are spending money on. And you talk about the people who make 6k a year that get back 5-10 times what they put in you have to realize that thats 5-10 times is included in their 6k a year, they anent making 30-60k a year when they should be making 6k.. they use the money from things like food stamps to make up that 6k.
Obama comes into the white house After 8 years and Trillions of dollars spent on a war without anything done to make up for the money that the war was costing. Instead Bush says hey wealthy have a tax cut what do we need revenue for? not this trillion dollar war.
Furthermore the previous president who did nothing to regulate trade and lending let the bank get in over their heads. So what does Obama HAVE to do? spend money to bail out the mess Bush left behind.
And you talk about spending money responsibly? A Health Care Reform that gives millions of Americans affordable health care, and a bail out that saved the US economy from a disaster worse than the great depression is not responsible but a decade long war with no clear objective (unitll obama) that costs trillions of dollars is responsible spending? I cant say i see your logic there.
And the sad fact of the matter is that Corporations dont pay taxes. The top 1% of Americans hold almost 40% of all the wealth in America. So to not raise taxes at least back to what they were during Clintons presidency (cough when we had a surplus in revenue) is an attack on the middle class. If the top 1% of wealthy people in america put all their money together they could: completely remove Americas debt, Buy a 16k dollar car for every family in america, and pay the mortgage on every home in america FOR 14 Months. You say its unfair to take money from the rich but you want to cut programs that help the poor and disabled is that fair to you?
“Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment?"-Ronald Reagan
The Republican party has been far to corrupted by wealth and power. When you have a party thats #1 goal is to make the president a 1 term president they are failing the duty to the real #1 The United States of America.
And @ Mr. President.
I think that Gov. spending is a very misunderstood concept. People see the Gov. spending money and they automatically think that the money they spend doesnt help them. Which could be farther from the truth. With a few exceptions the money most administrations apart from Bush the 2nd have all been used to better america. But we get to the problem of a muti trillion dollar war and a lack of regulations in the lending markets that all of a sudden tax payers are seeing their money go straight to banks and other organizations and they say hey why are they getting my money. So to think that Gov. spending needs to stop is ridiculous. We just need to give it time to settle out after 8 years of fiscal stupidity. And raising the debt ceiling is nothing new or special its just a ploy to get the president out of office. And let me tell you, its alot easier to put a face on blame (Obama) than the many Republicans of the House of Representatives.
bush 2 had dem controlled house and senate and what is trying to be accomplished in reference to budget, should have been done PRIOR to the 2010 elections.
Its just sick how Republicans are using the stupidity of average voters to hold America hostage just so they can regain the presidents office in 2012. I only can only pray that people see it for what is really happening.
LOL, you really believe that don't you? Good job buying into talking points they put out on the news. Remove the word "Republicans" and replace it with "Democrats" and now you have the argument from the other side. What's the point?
Both sides are screwed up and it's as simple as that. We elect these people it's our fault. Stop voting these idiots into office. Better yet, educate yourself to fully understand both sides of the issue rather than just promulgating a conspiracy. Cast your vote based on facts and not the (R) or (D) next to their names.
taxes! simple idea for a new and fair sort of tax tax system you say for example minimum 30% tax for everyone of course increseing the more you make.
A flat tax system based on consumption and not income would fix the issue. (Tax what we spend not what we make.) It's simpler and would cut back on the IRS as it is extremely easy to enforce. Not to mention balanced across all income levels. In simpler terms it's a national sales tax. Some studies suggest a 10% to 13% rate would work well.
A study recently conducted shows that if you taxed every single American 100% of their income it would take more than two years to pay off out debt.
Mr President
07-27-2011, 22:43
Have you seen what Republican Paul Ryan wants to do to cut Medicare and Medicade? You say the Dems are the ones using the elderly is just a sick joke. The whole plan for Republicans is to cut cut cut. Im sorry but that may have worked in your day but the worlds a different place now.
And you say not enough for the "pork" it sounds like you dont even know what else they are spending money on. And you talk about the people who make 6k a year that get back 5-10 times what they put in you have to realize that thats 5-10 times is included in their 6k a year, they anent making 30-60k a year when they should be making 6k.. they use the money from things like food stamps to make up that 6k.
Obama comes into the white house After 8 years and Trillions of dollars spent on a war without anything done to make up for the money that the war was costing. Instead Bush says hey wealthy have a tax cut what do we need revenue for? not this trillion dollar war.
Furthermore the previous president who did nothing to regulate trade and lending let the bank get in over their heads. So what does Obama HAVE to do? spend money to bail out the mess Bush left behind.
And you talk about spending money responsibly? A Health Care Reform that gives millions of Americans affordable health care, and a bail out that saved the US economy from a disaster worse than the great depression is not responsible but a decade long war with no clear objective (unitll obama) that costs trillions of dollars is responsible spending? I cant say i see your logic there.
And the sad fact of the matter is that Corporations dont pay taxes. The top 1% of Americans hold almost 40% of all the wealth in America. So to not raise taxes at least back to what they were during Clintons presidency (cough when we had a surplus in revenue) is an attack on the middle class. If the top 1% of wealthy people in america put all their money together they could: completely remove Americas debt, Buy a 16k dollar car for every family in america, and pay the mortgage on every home in america FOR 14 Months. You say its unfair to take money from the rich but you want to cut programs that help the poor and disabled is that fair to you?
“Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment?"-Ronald Reagan
The Republican party has been far to corrupted by wealth and power. When you have a party thats #1 goal is to make the president a 1 term president they are failing the duty to the real #1 The United States of America.
And @ Mr. President.
I think that Gov. spending is a very misunderstood concept. People see the Gov. spending money and they automatically think that the money they spend doesnt help them. Which could be farther from the truth. With a few exceptions the money most administrations apart from Bush the 2nd have all been used to better america. But we get to the problem of a muti trillion dollar war and a lack of regulations in the lending markets that all of a sudden tax payers are seeing their money go straight to banks and other organizations and they say hey why are they getting my money. So to think that Gov. spending needs to stop is ridiculous. We just need to give it time to settle out after 8 years of fiscal stupidity. And raising the debt ceiling is nothing new or special its just a ploy to get the president out of office. And let me tell you, its alot easier to put a face on blame (Obama) than the many Republicans of the House of Representatives.
Again your proving my point.. You don't care about the truth unless the Republicans are to blame for it. BOTH sides have spent more than they should have. Of course the Govt has to spend money, but does it have to spend more then it takes in? Do you do this? Can you get away with this?
And since when is it the Govt job to spend money to help me out? This is where this country started to go wrong. Somewhere along the line people began to think it's the Govt job to take care of them. Our tax system needs to be redone. The current way with the 1% of rich people supporting 40% of the rest really needs to stop.
The wars have not helped us financially.. But I'm pretty sure your party voted the same way my party did.. And don't give me this crap about lying to get the votes.. both parties saw the intelligent reports and both felt there was wmd's. But what about Libya? Where is the funds coming for that? At least Bush got congress approval before going to war..
Listen, I'm not pro bush nor am I anti Obama.. I'm an American who is stuck in the middle of bull**** politics and I'm sick of it. I really don't understand how there are some who are not sick of it.
Mr President
07-27-2011, 22:44
A study recently conducted shows that if you taxed every single American 100% of their income it would take more than two years to pay off out debt.
lol heard this on Fox news this morning :)
and here i thought we have the most worst economy in the world.. is the US that ****ed-up now?
Mrmcjoey15
07-28-2011, 00:36
and here i thought we have the most worst economy in the world.. is the US that ****ed-up now?
Its pretty dismal.
Pres is right the two party system is starting to fail us. to busy worrying about re-elections and not about the country.
in another thread i quoted George Washington. its really incredible the amount of insight he had, he was against political parties before political parties existed.
Mr. President makes some good points, it is our responsibility to educate ourselves, and look for our own answers, ultimately we are responsible for electing our own public officials. For too long have i heard people say, "well i'm not voting for him, he's not republican or democrat and has no chance to be elected, that would be a waste of my vote."
here is the link to the united states senate, go ahead and research for yourself who votes for what and how they actually represent you.
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/g_three_sections_with_teasers/legislative_home.htm
and here is the link to the house of representatives.
http://clerk.house.gov/legislative/legvotes.aspx
also you can quickly just type in your senator or representatives name and go to their website to learn a little more about them. some of them have quick links to show how they have voted on various issues, some do not. just remember it may be a little bias toward them.
Is the american public smart enough to see threw the BS they are fed everyday? some of us are...
i see more eye to eye with democrats than republicans, but really i have found individuals from both parties who i agree with.
what i don't understand is how both parties can't articulate their side and meet somewhere in the middle. were not doin this! we'll never do that!
on a side note i did watch an actual debate on CSPAN featuring the house of representatives on tax reform. one issue that was brought up that received bipartisan support was corporate tax reform. the united states corporate tax rate in 35%, however there are so many tax subsidies in the law that if they eliminated the subsidies they could substantially lower the corporate tax rate and still have enough money left over to knock off some of the national debt.
now what does that mean to me? well i take it some of these subsidies are necessary and needed, but i have not actually had the opportunity to examine corporate tax law. but it seems to me a little disingenuous to say we have a 35% tax rate when he effective tax rate is much lower. basically reform and removal of many of these subsidies could in fact create a more accurate number for us to study.
anyways i've been drinking for more than 12 hours straight at this point so, i'm just going to leave my thoughts there and take up my discussion later. :P
actually i can't resist posting again!!!
every political leader, representative, or senator i have heard speak so far has said that they in the very least will raise the debt ceiling. why are they putting this deadline out there? well because we are facing a huge national debt crisis, and one way to bring attention to it and to really get stuff done about it is to put a deadline on it.
i don't know about some of you, but for me nearly every time i sit down to write a paper or complete an assignment its no less than two days before its due. if that deadline wasn't there i'd still be off watching my minnesota twins get destroyed every night.
American politics. Its really hard to understand it without living in America I suppose.
Theres no easy fix to America's problems. On one hand, you've got political parties connected to the wealthy corporations. Each owing each other favors. Theres conflict of interests galore, theres government contracts handed out left and right to big money donors. Theres a electoral system where 75% of each term is spent trying to get re-elected. Theres extreme division along ordinary citizens. You see it even here on the forums. People more concerned with name-calling than working together to see what they have in common. A 24 hour news network that makes mountains out of molehills.
Sure, every country suffers from these problems to a certain extent. But in the behemoth that is America, every problem is magnified 10 fold, 20 fold. Banks that are too big to fail. Debt that will soon be more than 100% of GDP. European countries have shown they will fall like dominoes unless people from all parties speaking many languages show they can work together and get things done.
I'm no Economics major. There are people here that are more knowledgeable on this subject than me. But even I can see there is something so fundamentally wrong with America. Perhaps its the tax code that needs to be re-written. Maybe you need to scrap Medicare/Medicaid and come up with something else to fill its role. But I'm sure everyone can see that something major needs to be done. Or maybe its just the ways are meant to be in a new era. I'm sure -Z- would have a field day with that line of thought.
If there is one question I would love answered, its how American culture is so different from any other culture in the world. People from Europe often jokingly refer to Canada as a smaller America, or even part of it. But thats not true at all. I've been to America. Theres just something so different about it, and impossible to pinpoint. If Canada were to have 300 million people, would we resemble what America is today? I honestly don't know.
well xavier, what you see and hear about is the national level of politics in america. the truth is most of our great ideas today come from the local level. one township or county tries something that works out, more adopt it, and it moves up the chain to the state and federal levels.
personally i think many americans have a hard time finding reliable news sources. where honesty and integrity are upheld. as a result you get bombarded with these factioned world ending theories suggesting if your not on our side it could mean the end of america!
while the truth is thats complete crap, and the more opinions and viewpoints you can get on a subject the better. but, there needs to be a fundamental understanding that its ok to disagree. you can take these opposing sides and create laws and reform that are based in the middle, not pulled to the extremists on either side.
and the absolute truth is america has always been a little slow at adopting policies and agenda that other countries around the world have proved work well. look at slavery? how many years behind was america on that? the same could be said today when you look at universal healthcare and other systems.
fact, we spend more money on healthcare than any other country, and the quality of our health care is much lower. oh gee, however do we solve such a dilemma? i don't know maybe would could take a look at some of the better health care systems around the world and evaluate what they do well? what a shocking idea.
in my opinion there are simple solutions to many of the problems facing america today, but being able to unite people behind those ideas is proving to be nearly impossible.
Mrmcjoey15
07-28-2011, 04:18
Lol watch out Beeno, i dont think alot of ppl in this thread are ready for universal health care.
let me put it to you in another way. we have republicans on the right and democrats on the left. where does america stand? in the middle. so no matter who wins, we lose.
Lol watch out Beeno, i dont think alot of ppl in this thread are ready for universal health care.
We've had it for 60+ years now, works pretty well. :)
As to the thread topic:
Scaled tax rate based on income:
no tax for first 20k dollars earned.
over 20k = 10%
over 40k = 20%
over 60k = 30%
over 80k = 40%
100k and everything above that = 50%
Cut defence spending by at least 50%, cut aid to Israel.
Probably other things could be done, but that's off the top of my head.
ranger2112
07-28-2011, 09:29
if you go with a National Sales tax, that closes each and every loophole available. tax on consumption and not income will get the freeloaders off the national teat. keep 100% of your income...pay an additional 10% sales tax and invest in your own retirement plan, we could be, as a nation, solvent in no time at all. universal health care, as a concept, is a great thing. what our country has passed is not. it is an abomination and several "friends of the administration" already have temp waivers.
Based on current events...THIS IS MY FAVORITE QUOTE
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
A sales tax overwhelmingly favours the richest in society, the very people responsible for most of the economic mess the world is in.
Full socialism is the way to go. :)
A sales tax overwhelmingly favours the richest in society, the very people responsible for most of the economic mess the world is in.
Full socialism is the way to go. :)
This. Most 'Socialist' countries that Americans sneer at are the most stable and have the highest standards of living in the world today. Hell, in Denmark they pay you to go to University (or so I hear).
be careful you two, someone attached negative connotations with being socialist, or having socialist ideas.
being a socialist also leads to the death and destruction of america, or at least thats what i heard on the news. :laugh:
Well I'm not American and I think Xavior is a loyalist (Canadian) so there's no danger of either of us becoming president and introducing our evil socialist ideas to the US.
Americans can sleep safe in their beds knowing this :P
the Dems- give us more money so we can blow it faster. Obama's plan for the US is nearly complete. get ready, boys and girls, the end is nigh if the right caves in and allows the puppet in chief to win this fiscal battle. personally, i have plenty of ammo when the whole thing blows up. if things stay on the current course, IT WILL BLOW UP
this is not a statement that has any intention other than to help create faction. if you have a problem with a particular issue, speak your opinion on it. not just whats wrong with this guys proposal, but also what you think a proper solution would be.
really statements like this are just silly and laughable.
just attacking someone as much as possible on a particular topic but trying as hard as you can not to mention anything about that topic other than its title.
this is not a statement that has any intention other than to help create faction. if you have a problem with a particular issue, speak your opinion on it. not just whats wrong with this guys proposal, but also what you think a proper solution would be.
really statements like this are just silly and laughable.
just attacking someone as much as possible on a particular topic but trying as hard as you can not to mention anything about that topic other than its title.
But Joey is a democRAT ;)
Well I'm not American and I think Xavior is a loyalist (Canadian) so there's no danger of either of us becoming president and introducing our evil socialist ideas to the US.
Americans can sleep safe in their beds knowing this :P
I can't wait until Michelle Bachmann becomes the GOP presidential nominee. She makes Sarah Palin look like a genius.
Mrmcjoey15
07-28-2011, 19:42
But Joey is a democRAT ;)
Did i make it that obvious ::oops:
I'm pretty much with LP and Pres on this one- both parties are broke, have been broke, but this could very well be the one thing that finally gets people to open their eyes.
I lost about 40% of my investments back in 08, and it looks like we may be headed to a repeat next week (even if it is a lesser one) with Great Depression 2: Partisan Boogaloo.
What I wonder is what these credit monitoring agencies were doing all of these years, and in the immediate decade preceding now- surely you can't just stand back and watch the shell game be played and not question it at all, no? Part of me thinks they were a shill in all of this, only now things are far more scrutinized, so its far more difficult to do a sleight of hand. Even that only got us so far, and we seem to be out of fiscal tricks.
Part of me tells me that even if a deal is reached, the damage has been done, and one of these agencies may decide to go ahead with the downgrade anyways. All we need is one, and the sheeple in the market will freak, causing a domino effect worldwide.
I feel bad for anyone with a bad loan such as an adjustable rate mortgage, as you only have 2 kidneys in your body, and selling one will only get you so much money now. Perhaps I should liquidate my investments and get water purification tablets, heirloom seeds, and ammo?
I hate to be a pessimist, but I'm resigned to whatever may come- the other side of this is that perhaps the average person will open their eyes and begin to vote for the actual people who wish to steer the country in the right direction. Elect enough of them, and even the old buzzards in Congress right now can't drown them out. Enact term limits, put a leash on these special interest groups, and get rid of their yearly raise if they can't produce results- these people need to realize that their oath of office is to serve the USA, not their political image.
ooga booga
07-28-2011, 23:03
We've had it for 60+ years now, works pretty well. :)
As to the thread topic:
Scaled tax rate based on income:
no tax for first 20k dollars earned.
over 20k = 10%
over 40k = 20%
over 60k = 30%
over 80k = 40%
100k and everything above that = 50%
Cut defence spending by at least 50%, cut aid to Israel.
Probably other things could be done, but that's off the top of my head.
So if I make gross $80k, I make net $48k after taxes.
If I make gross $100k, I make net $50k after taxes. A person that should make 20k more, a 25% increase in salary is going to get a measly 2k more net total? Nobody is going to work hard to get that big of an increase in salary if that's the case.
Furthermore the previous president who did nothing to regulate trade and lending let the bank get in over their heads. So what does Obama HAVE to do? spend money to bail out the mess Bush left behind.
And you talk about spending money responsibly? A Health Care Reform that gives millions of Americans affordable health care, and a bail out that saved the US economy from a disaster worse than the great depression is not responsible but a decade long war with no clear objective (unitll obama) that costs trillions of dollars is responsible spending? I cant say i see your logic there.
And the sad fact of the matter is that Corporations dont pay taxes. The top 1% of Americans hold almost 40% of all the wealth in America. So to not raise taxes at least back to what they were during Clintons presidency (cough when we had a surplus in revenue) is an attack on the middle class. If the top 1% of wealthy people in america put all their money together they could: completely remove Americas debt, Buy a 16k dollar car for every family in america, and pay the mortgage on every home in america FOR 14 Months. You say its unfair to take money from the rich but you want to cut programs that help the poor and disabled is that fair to you?
“Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment?"-Ronald Reagan
Your hatred blinds you. Do some research, the 2007/2008 collapse started way before the Bush era. If I have to enlighten you back to Clinton in 1994 and the law that caused the mess starting with subprime mortgages, let me know, because clearly you're uninformed.
Take off the blind goggles, slap yourself in the face 4 times and realize it's not 1 party's fault. They're all guilty.
I'm pretty much with LP and Pres on this one- both parties are broke, have been broke, but this could very well be the one thing that finally gets people to open their eyes.
I lost about 40% of my investments back in 08, and it looks like we may be headed to a repeat next week (even if it is a lesser one) with Great Depression 2: Partisan Boogaloo.
What I wonder is what these credit monitoring agencies were doing all of these years, and in the immediate decade preceding now- surely you can't just stand back and watch the shell game be played and not question it at all, no? Part of me thinks they were a shill in all of this, only now things are far more scrutinized, so its far more difficult to do a sleight of hand. Even that only got us so far, and we seem to be out of fiscal tricks.
Part of me tells me that even if a deal is reached, the damage has been done, and one of these agencies may decide to go ahead with the downgrade anyways. All we need is one, and the sheeple in the market will freak, causing a domino effect worldwide.
I feel bad for anyone with a bad loan such as an adjustable rate mortgage, as you only have 2 kidneys in your body, and selling one will only get you so much money now. Perhaps I should liquidate my investments and get water purification tablets, heirloom seeds, and ammo?
I hate to be a pessimist, but I'm resigned to whatever may come- the other side of this is that perhaps the average person will open their eyes and begin to vote for the actual people who wish to steer the country in the right direction. Elect enough of them, and even the old buzzards in Congress right now can't drown them out. Enact term limits, put a leash on these special interest groups, and get rid of their yearly raise if they can't produce results- these people need to realize that their oath of office is to serve the USA, not their political image.
good post!
This. Most 'Socialist' countries that Americans sneer at are the most stable and have the highest standards of living in the world today. Hell, in Denmark they pay you to go to University (or so I hear).
same in norway and sweden you get abit of cash for studying :)
socialism for the win :)
america becomes a socialist country only when the rich need bailing out :P
So if I make gross $80k, I make net $48k after taxes.
If I make gross $100k, I make net $50k after taxes. A person that should make 20k more, a 25% increase in salary is going to get a measly 2k more net total? Nobody is going to work hard to get that big of an increase in salary if that's the case.
To quote the most evil person in british politics:
"No, No, No"
First 20k you make is untaxed.
second 20k is taxed at 10%, so someone on 40k pays 2k tax total.
third is taxed at 20%, so 60k pays 6k tax.
and so on.
only when you start earning really big bucks do you pay big taxes.
Calvin74
07-29-2011, 10:19
http://www.commonsensejunction.com/pics-09/obama-budget-chart.jpg
both democrats and republicans suck at managing money but at least some people can look at the numbers and see which side is worse at it. the other side just listens to the tv and takes their free handouts
Calvin74
07-29-2011, 10:21
also i would like to point out that no one has actually suggested any plan that will cut the deficit. they just want to cut future spending but will still go further into debt. just not as far.
you know the difference between 24 trillion in debt at the of the decade instead of 30 trillion
we literally have the worst leadership possible right now. no one is actually working on making the country better they are just trying to make the other side look bad
Mr President
07-29-2011, 12:53
I believe that people's eyes are wide open now and I also believe that some of these politicians are a little worried their jobs won't be around much longer. The sad thing is, once things to settle down, Americans will begin to be blind again..
I would love a politician to come into play saying "look, we all messed this up. It's happened and I don't care who is to blame, but here is the plan to get us back on course".. The problem is, to get back on course means there needs to be drastic sacrifices and I'm not sure Americans want that. What they want is the problem to be fixed, just don't touch my wallet. lol
Now a couple side notes of things that really piss me off about this country. First, once you become a congressman, your paid that salary for the rest of your life.. Are you kidding me? Bullcrap. You'll get paid while you hold the job and then like the rest of us, your on your own to find work.
If you hold a current position and seek another Govt position, you still get to keep and receive pay for your current position... Are you freaking kidding me? My current job won't pay me while I parade around the country looking for a new job. Why should these idiots get to? If you want a new job, you quit your current one and find a new one.
Ok just had to get that off my chest..
thats what happens when people are allowed to right their owns salaries mr. P!
on a side note, i've been seeing this guy all over place lately, and he has some interesting points. not sure i'm sold on him yet, but i'll make a plug here so some of you can at least check him out.
www.buddyroemer.com
just watch a few of his segments, he actually discusses a plan in some of them, my biggest draw to this guy is that he is refusing any donations from pacs, special interest groups and corporations.
he will only accept 100$ maximum and only from individuals. its the same way he was elected to congress during the Reagan administration. he was elected governor of Louisiana using the same campaign finance plan. over the last number of years he's been the CEO of a small bank, that remained profitable during our financial crisis and received no bail out money.
as he says it, to be president you have to be free, and you can't be free accepting money from all these special interests, in one segment he even says i won't accept their blood money.
when he was talking about the national debt he was discussing cutting 1% of spending each year for 5 years. something around 141 billion dollars a year. he talked about taxing general electric who made of 5 billion in profits last year in the united states and payed 0% taxes. they also contributed over 4.3 million dollars in campaign donations.
in terms of creating jobs and rebuilding the economy he talked about improving and cutting regulations to small businesses. he also talked about improving trade policies. he said trade needs to be free, but first it needs to be fair, and discussed some instances where that was not being done. he really made some good points in the segments i saw.
he talked about lowering the corporate tax rate, now i'm not sure if he plans to close the loop holes in it as he didn't mention it. but earlier in one of my posts i mentioned where you can actually lower the corporate tax rate if you get rid of the loop holes, loop holes mainly being tax subsidies and still have money left over.
So now the US has a worse credit rating than the UK.
Nice job, republicans!
Six months, and you'll have the same problem all over again.
well maybe they will learn next time ;)
The S&P guy who cut the rating had some interesting things to say last night on CNN. When asked about the criteria S&P uses to rate sovereigns he specifically pointed out that the political system plays a integral part and the way Congress has handled raising the debt ceiling was pretty much the deciding factor. He pointed out that if Congress had raised the ceiling without the ridiculous mudslinging (I can't even call it debate) in a timely matter just like it has done countless times before and raised revenues (taxes) then S&P would have left the rating at AAA.
An analogy brought up was you don't go to the bank on the day your mortgage payment is due and argue with your spouse on whether or not you should pay it, because even if you do, you raise concerns if future payments will be paid on time or not.
And the first thing republicans do? Blame Obama of course. When the major party responsible for the stalemate was the so-called "teaparty' which refuses any tax increase. An interesting op-ed in my local paper said America's tax revenues amount to 24% of GDP. Canada's is 31%. Germany's is close to 40%. Sweden: 46%. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_ GDP]
My father shared an interesting tidbit the other day. No incumbent President has won re-election when unemployment was higher than 8%. It's currently 9.1%. Fair? No, but the average citizen couldn't care less about their country as a whole. Its how much of their paycheck do they get to keep, and that right there is one of the major problems. How can you have low taxes yet expect government services? You either get one or the other, you can't have everything.
Nice job, republicans!
I'm curious as to what information you are using to make this comment?
I'm curious as to what information you are using to make this comment?
it was their unwillingness to meet in the middle on some common ground that caused this in my opinion. yea there was huge mudslinging from both side but really look at the plan that was passed? it was their plan, it was not a common ground middle of the road plan.
I'm curious as to what information you are using to make this comment?
Well, the republican refusal to support big tax hikes for a start, which is needed if the US doesn't want even more downgrades in the future. At this rate in 5 years Greece will have a better rating.
So we keep taxing to fix the problem?
It seems that the problem was caused by an insane amount of government spending most of which was not needed or controlled. So increasing the taxes would not stop the spending.
In perspective: If I exceed the limit on my credit card is my employer responsible to pay me a higher wage so I can get an increased amount of credit?
So we keep taxing to fix the problem?
It seems that the problem was caused by an insane amount of government spending most of which was not needed or controlled. So increasing the taxes would not stop the spending.
In perspective: If I exceed the limit on my credit card is my employer responsible to pay me a higher wage so I can get an increased amount of credit?
It's more along the lines of your employer paying you far less than he should do for the last ten years, forcing you to borrow more.
I'm all for cutting spending, starting with defence and aid to Israel. If the US halved it's defense budget it would still have the most powerful military on the planet. And Israel already has the best military in the Middle East, if the US stopped the funding there wouldn't be Holocaust Mk 2. If defence spending equaled military power, then the UK could take on Russia by ourselves and win.
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