Retaliation Grievance Thread

[kenshin44]

The thing that, I feel was most unfair, is not what other LoR states claim. I think making a verdict without even hearing our side of the story is bull****. People who are convicted and caught red handed in murder are still taking to trial and asked motive and what not, I know this is a game, but since when do we just listen to the report look at the "retaliation" and decide.


All this tactic really achieved was a few more LoR dead states, and the prolong death of SLOB.

I suggest that we stop talking about this, as i know that nothing is going to be done to reverse the actions that have taken place. What i do suggest is that next time both side of the story is heard before the verdict.

[MAGGIO]

The thing that, I feel was most unfair, is not what other LoR states claim. I think making a verdict without even hearing our side of the story is bull****. People who are convicted and caught red handed in murder are still taking to trial and asked motive and what not, I know this is a game, but since when do we just listen to the report look at the "retaliation" and decide.


All this tactic really achieved was a few more LoR dead states, and the prolong death of SLOB.

I suggest that we stop talking about this, as i know that nothing is going to be done to reverse the actions that have taken place. What i do suggest is that next time both side of the story is heard before the verdict.

Now that IS and argument that completely pwns Prons BS. Followed by the best "statement" I have read tonight...

It is possible that since it was the middle of a stike/war that a hasty descision was made in the best possible "pinch" judgement.

Agree or Disagree with the Verdict we all should be thanking Mr P not disrespecting him, by calling him flat out wrong in public on the forums that HE pays for allows us to post on.

If you odnt like something and want to say something directly too him then send him a pm. He'll thank me for it...

[pron]

Thats where the argument where its your leaders or you. I think losing 600 turns is a small loss when it comes to exploiting a loophole. Maybe you didn't know about it, but your leaders did. Like i said, would you rather lose 300 turns or would you rather delete your leaders states?

Neither is an acceptable option for me. Like I said, something in between what was done and nothing is what should have been done.

He did what he thought was fair. You guys (LoR) exploited a loophole, if we wanted to hit as soon as we declared we would have declared retaliations as well.

Its kind of common sense...Just think about it for a second...
Pron, you have been playing this game a long time, both you and I know that. You just have to think for a second....whats the point of declaring for war and preps, if it can be turned around by the opposing nation just declaring retals. [/quote]

We have been playing this game for awhile, and we both know that there are "shady" things that are done. Think about this for a second--I haven't been around for awhile. I wasn't here when retal function was added. I don't know how nations have used it, or how it has been accepted. It's entirely plausible that people have accepted it to be used when war has been declared on a nation (because it's tough to rally a strike force in 2 hours, and it would weaken the effects of a FS and most people in the declaring nation will be online to strike). It makes entire sense to use it in the way it was used--if people say it's ok. How am I supposed to know it's not ok if I haven't been around?

Sometimes you gotta go past the boundaries to prove a point. Now everyone knows that if you think its a loophole, don't exploit it.

Unless it's a one time offense. Do you know of LOR people that repeatedly exploit loopholes?

When i said 'you guys' i meant LOR

Stop that. I'm an individual!!!

If people didn't get punished for exploiting loopholes, and knew everytime they exploited one all that would happen is their states would be rolled back...isn't really helping the cause.

Which is why Prez should use discretion about individual states and their past actions.

[pron]

So what your saying and basing your entire argument on is this.

Because I have never seen the actual law that states I cannot kill another human being than I should not be punished for it, and if I do get punished for it were I see unfit, I should go on the forums and hijack a thread to get attension.

Jump off a cliff CHEATER!

You're not doing a very good job of using an analogy.

If we use the law portion of this, then it's not about seeing the law. It's about whether it's a law on the "books" or not. The forums is not the "books". The TOS is the "books". You can't be punished by a law that isn't a law.

I didn't hijack the thread. Prez posted first.

PS--have you been drinking Maggio? Normally you're level headed.

[pron]

Why is it always pres's responsibility to initiate the conversation. If something is known it should be brought up to him. I doubt with work and RL, that he has the time to track down everyone and talk to them about loopholes. I know this doesn't really have any real argument about what your saying now but everytime it seems all night you have been implying that pres has to talk to people first. If you feel you are wronged or know something that is going on that shouldnt, don't you need to talk to him.

You don't expect the police to come to your house because they are checking randomly for problems...you call them when there is an issue.


@andy: you almost got the quote thing right

Are there really that many loopholes that Prez needs to be on night and date asking about them? I think it's a mod's job to let prez knows that someone mentioned a loophole that hasn't been dealt with. Then prez should ask the member who posted in the forums about it. That's just this situation though...

[pron]

Lets get down to it...

If you were reported via the Cheater Report System, and your case was reviewed and you were punished in any way shape of form (in your case the loss of turns) then you are a cheater.

So? Are you a cheater or are you not a cheater. If you were punished you are a cheater, if you were not punished then I guess you can keep your "clean slate"

Whether you think your right or wrong matters not, you were in the wrong, and you are wrong, and thats all that pretty much counts...

To be a cheater, you have to be a cheater according to the TOS. There are lots of ways that people could call cheating (see "Shady" discussion). The TOS is the determining factor.

[pron]

Now that IS and argument that completely pwns Prons BS. Followed by the best "statement" I have read tonight...

It is possible that since it was the middle of a stike/war that a hasty descision was made in the best possible "pinch" judgement.

Agree or Disagree with the Verdict we all should be thanking Mr P not disrespecting him, by calling him flat out wrong in public on the forums that HE pays for allows us to post on.

If you odnt like something and want to say something directly too him then send him a pm. He'll thank me for it...

I started out by PM'ing Prez, to which he stopped sending me PM's back. I was most respectful in those PM's, and there was no reason for him to not PM me back. Then he came on the forums and posted here, so I responded to it.

[MAGGIO]

PS--have you been drinking Maggio? Normally you're level headed.

no your just driving me crazy with your weak arguement...


you were punished in your own words...you must have been punished for something? breaking the rules perhaps?

I didnt read the PMs you sent him, but its evident to me that you see no reason, and have little logic. You knew you were at the very least bending the rules ( i guess taht would be shady not cheating?) so what your deal. whats your real point. On the actual real subject of the argument are you right or wrong. You were "punished" (more than fairly in my eyes) so you must have been found wrong.

[Crimson Shadow]

Are there really that many loopholes that Prez needs to be on night and date asking about them?

Didn't know pres was dating the loopholes

I think it's a mod's job to let prez knows that someone mentioned a loophole that hasn't been dealt with. Then prez should ask the member who posted in the forums about it. That's just this situation though...

Again, you are placing responsibility on everyone except who needs it. Responsibility lies with the people who discover the loophole or see others who are using it. Yes if it comes on the forums then I will immediately let pres know about it. But it shouldn't be mine, nor anyone elses responsibility just because they have a title before their name.



@Ali: +rep for your response. That argument I buy and respect. It was a hasty decision, but when a major problem arises it is human nature to overreact and act immediately. Pres is only human.

[pron]

no your just driving me crazy with your weak arguement...


you were punished in your own words...you must have been punished for something? breaking the rules perhaps?

I was punished for something that I knew nothing about because it was on the forums and not the TOS. If it's not in the TOS, it's not "the rules". It wasn't even in the "game news" options where most of this stuff goes.

If you're calling me a cheater, you'd best prove it Maggio. Cause I'm arguing I shouldn't have been punished for something I didn't know about, and could very well have been a legit thing.

I have plenty of logic actually, it's just that you're biased towards anything LOR. You'd be just fine with LOR not playing, not being around, and LOR being punished for just being LOR.

My real point--punishment should be fair and directed at those who deserved it. Once your states were restored, I no longer deserved it for doing something I knew nothing about.

@ Crimson--

Yes, prez goes on lots of dates with loopholes

Yep--I agree, people should tell when they find a loophole. However, if they come on the forum talking about it, and it hasn't been reported, then it's obvious they won't be reporting it, and then it becomes a policing action by mods and admin.