Retaliation Grievance Thread

[Devil]

Devil I am not a game admin you seem to forget that matter and you never mentioned using it for war either.... And with being unfamiliar with the feature I was unaware that it effected whole nation and not just a particular state...

unaware i came out and told you that i intended to use it to kill a breaker state before the war declaration time had passed. This was under the impression that what you told me about the feature was true.

And your not a game admin but a forum admin so as a major post as such i would expect that you would have read the post Mr. P directed us to.

[pron]

There is no way i can add every little thing or possible thing in the TOS. Holy **** i would be on here all night and still miss 10,000 things. That is why we make the TOS a "General" overview of the rules and handle each instance in a case by case manner, cause there is no way one rule can cover every instance...and then at the bottom of the TOS is clearly says:

"19. - Do not try to cleverly circumvent some rule listed here. These rules are general guidelines and are very flexible.
Violations are either automatically dealt with, or looked at and dealt with on a case by case praxis. If you know about someone else that is cheating you have to report him/her. Not doing so will be treated as cheating and you will be subject to deletion. Violation of these simple rules may result in account deletion without prior notice and in some cases a permanent ban from the game. These rules may be changed with or without notice to the user!"


You can spin this anyway you want. And you can play the i didn't know card when the fact is how could you not know? Why would we add a war prep feature to the game if you could just hit retaliation and go to war? Why was there lots of conversations asking for a simple way to handle retaliations? And further more, when you join a nation you are at the mercy of your leaders stupid decisions.. If you leader starts a war and gets you all killed and i suppose to reinstate your state cause "you didn't know what your leader was doing"? NO! Every member since the dawn of this game is at the mercy of his/her leaders good or bad choices.. Don't like them, leave the nation!

You actually don't have to add too much to the TOS--in fact, all you had to do was copy/paste what you wrote in the forums into the TOS. Are you telling me that would take you all night? Just because you couldn't do something that took 2 mins, doesn't mean you should penalize.

I didn't know about the function, because I haven't played for numerous sets. I certainly didn't check the forums very often, and I didn't keep up on rule changes. (You can see my forum postings and my state logins in your logs). I didn't know if this was an accepted practice or not. I didn't know how the function works, if it was a timed thing, a number of attacks, or a % dmg to a given state. Do you expect every player to read every forum posting about this game before they start?

Never should an admin punish a player for another player's actions. Are you kidding me?!?! What kind of decision making is that?? If my leaders do something wrong to get me killed, then I will talk to them. If an admin screws me, then I will talk to that admin. Quit deflecting your responsibility in this situation. If you think I did wrong according to the rules, then show me how I did that--knowingly did something wrong according to the rules, and punish me for that. Ridiculous that you would still think this is the right thing.

One of your leaders admitted he knew it was shady but did it anyway. being able to go to war without first prepping for war is a loophole and people know this.

Then why are you punishing my state? If you think my leader did something, then you deal with the situation with the leader--not the states that don't know what's going on.

I'm sorry you feel that i "GAVE" the advantage to the other nation.

You didn't give THE advantage, you gave an advantage. You overstepped the bounds of being an admin by giving an advantage.

I didn't do anything. I didn't see anyone from LoR complaining when they had the advantage of using the loophole.. ONLY when they get busted trying to be clever do i hear complaints.

You did do something--you gave an advantage to one group of players at the cost to the other group of players. That's not an admin's job. Your job is to enforce the rules in the TOS, and to make things fair and equal.

How am I supposed to complain when I don't know if it's wrong or not? There are plenty of "shady" things that you let go in the game.

The loophole is my fault for not getting it right the first time. I will take 100% full responsibility for that. But i will not take the blame for LoR's dumb choice to exploit it.. LoR's whole BS reasons for the retal is about as lame as my coding skills. Out of the 3 of LoRs leaders not one of you had the same story. There was no talk about doing any retals. Some of you got on, saw SLOB beat you to the punch and you found a "shady" way around it.

SLOB didn't beat us to the punch. The two states we killed were, SURPRISE, not online for their strike. Everyone was online because of text messages, and came on when SLOB declared. This little paragraph of yours just shows your bias of the situation and who you're siding with on the issue. Again, own up to what your assumptions are about the situation, and see how you're overstepping your bounds as admin.

PS--I'm not leading this set. Hence why the leaders contacts for LOR in the recruiting threads for July doesn't have my info in it.

I have no problem EVER admitting when i am wrong. Hell i do it all the time. But i'm sorry, i am not wrong on this. If i felt for one minute that the 2 members who conspired this really didn't feel it was a loophole then i would have just erased what happened and fixed the loophole.

Again, i know 99% of LoR's members are very intelligent (yes pron your one of the 99%) enough to know that the retal feature was not a work around for the war declaration.

If you can narrow it down to 2 members who "conspired", then why are you punishing more than just those two members? Why do you feel the need to punish all of LOR? Do you have some sort of grudge with them? Why are you too proud and stubborn to admit that you may have overstepped your bounds as admin? Why don't you aim for making the situation fair, instead of giving an advantage?

You may not have a problem admitting you're wrong when you think you're wrong, but you sure have a problem admitting you're wrong when you don't think you're wrong. I've already showed you how you've overstepped your admin duties, how you could have easily put this in the TOS and how it's integral for an admin to act according to the TOS and not the forums. Maybe it's time you recognize what you've done wrong here.

[::LD::GrimReapr]

Grim there is a difference here. First, nothing was ever stated that going into vacation mode was against the rules UNTIL it happened to your nation. It was your nation that got that whole issue changed and now you can't enter it if your in a war.. I would think you would be happy that your nation was the leading reason is was changed.

It was clearly stated what the Retaliation feature was to be used for. I did take into consideration that the post was not read by members like Devil who was not around when the feature took place, and that is why states were not deleted.. The only loss was turns, and i still hold firm that it was fair.. Even though most in LoR doesn't see it that way.

I can only fix the loopholes when they are found and abused. And i try to be as fair as possible. In your case there really wasn't much i could do as nothing was even stated in a post. But i did fix that loophole and i kinda thought you would be happy about that.. guess not... There will NEVER be a day that i can please everyone with whatever decision i make. But all should know that i do consult other people for opinions on things all the time. Rarely do i ever make a decision by myself.. And one more thing to add, i don't have a admins manual. I am learning as i go. Many times i will mess up, but at all time my intentions are always for the better of the game. And one thing i NEVER do is seek out one nation and try to hurt them in anyway... I really do try to be fair as possible.

I am happy that it was fixed but I didnt see any loss of turns or any consequences to them for abusing a loophole. I dont think one should have been taken here either. As I said before in my own personal opinion and I am not even playing this set though I did make a state is that I think it was an abuse of power to have the states involved lose the turns they used. I dont find that fair either. Tha game got rolled back to my understanding, so how is it now fair? Bitter you say sure I will admit to being a bit bitter after being screwed over by a loophole and nothing being done immediatly like in this case.

[Crimson Shadow]

You can't possibly say that if SLOB used that loophole and killed your states before we were allowed to that you (LoR) wouldn't ***** too. I've never bashed LoR (try to find 1 post of mine where I did) but I know that LoR would be pissed if the SLOB states weren't deleted. Not just states restored and turns lost. I'm not sure why LoR is making a big deal about it. A war prep is required to declare WAR. You managed to eliminate the 2 hours that were necessary to declare war. You can claim ignorance, but you must have known it was wrong (or at least your leaders should have.) How doesn't that warrant the reinstatement of the states that were wrongfully killed. You already have double our numbers, why do you need even more help. Just get some of the states to tag up that you have "hiding" and you can have your advantage back.

@ Pron, you say there are lots of "shady" things going on in the game. Not reporting them makes you just as guilty as the person who is committing them.

If you know about someone else that is cheating you have to report him/her. Not doing so will be treated as cheating

I'm sick of the *****ing as well, but if pres did nothing SLOB *****es, if pres took action, LoR *****es. Nothing can ever be done to satisfy both sides.

[Xavior]

The way PAIN used Vacation Mode was cheap and it was fixed that set. To be fair at the point, there was nothing which said Vacation Mode could only be used if you were not going to log in for 5 days and not in war, etc.

This can be compared to Vacation Mode only to a certain point.

[Will]

You can't possibly say that if SLOB used that loophole and killed your states before we were allowed to that you (LoR) wouldn't ***** too. I've never bashed LoR (try to find 1 post of mine where I did) but I know that LoR would be pissed if the SLOB states weren't deleted. Not just states restored and turns lost. I'm not sure why LoR is making a big deal about it. A war prep is required to declare WAR. You managed to eliminate the 2 hours that were necessary to declare war. You can claim ignorance, but you must have known it was wrong (or at least your leaders should have.) How doesn't that warrant the reinstatement of the states that were wrongfully killed. You already have double our numbers, why do you need even more help. Just get some of the states to tag up that you have "hiding" and you can have your advantage back.

@ Pron, you say there are lots of "shady" things going on in the game. Not reporting them makes you just as guilty as the person who is committing them.



I'm sick of the *****ing as well, but if pres did nothing SLOB *****es, if pres took action, LoR *****es. Nothing can ever be done to satisfy both sides.

A rollback of ALL the states involved, plus a severe bollocking of LOR would have sufficed.

[::LD::GrimReapr]

That is why we make the TOS a "General" overview of the rules and handle each instance in a case by case manner, cause there is no way one rule can cover every instance...and then at the bottom of the TOS is clearly says:

"[SIZE=-1]19. - Do not try to cleverly circumvent some rule listed here. These rules are general guidelines and are very flexible.
Violations are either automatically dealt with, or looked at and dealt with on a case by case praxis. If you know about someone else that is cheating you have to report him/her. Not doing so will be treated as cheating and you will be subject to deletion. Violation of these simple rules may result in account deletion without prior notice and in some cases a permanent ban from the game. [B]These rules may be changed with or without notice to the user.

Vacation Mode is in my opinion clearly stated as well in and all by itself to be used by you when you are going on vacation not when being warred or declared upon where is the difference I dont see one.

[Crimson Shadow]

A rollback of ALL the states involved, plus a severe bollocking of LOR would have sufficed.

So basically you are punishing those who abused the loophole by slapping them on the hand and saying that wasn't very nice? And I'm assuming that you would be fine with letting the below situation be settled with a "bollocking"?

Like say you held the highest NW in the record book, but someone found a loophole and used it to beat your records.. I'm sure you would not be saying just plug the hole and move on..

EDIT: LoR already has double the states (double turns) of SLOB. Its not like Pres's decision is going to change the outcome of the war, so I don't see why it is such a big deal.

[Will]

So basically you are punishing those who abused the loophole by slapping them on the hand and saying that wasn't very nice? And I'm assuming that you would be fine with letting the below situation be settled with a "bollocking"?

Yes.

[Crimson Shadow]

Vacation Mode is in my opinion clearly stated as well in and all by itself to be used by you when you are going on vacation not when being warred or declared upon where is the difference I dont see one.

Forgive my crappy memory and off topicness....did GRIM win that war or did PAIN?