Retaliation Grievance Thread

[Will]

And how does he penalize them then? Talk to each state individually and ask them if they knew what they were doing was wrong? You say penalize those that need be, wouldn't that include any state who made an attack on the two dead states?




So what defines a "shady action" from cheating?

cheating:

multies, suiciding, hacking, anything that gets your state deleted/marked cheater

dodgy stuff:

Swapping GB, Vacation mode abuse, other abuse of loopholes that if caught doesn't result in deletion.

[Crimson Shadow]

this is a matter of principal. The size difference makes has no correlation. And if slob did that i highly doubt we would b!tch and complain as you guys did before the roll back. We think we have been treated unfair and are stating those reasons why.

And did you pay attention last set? We killed a few one man nations using that. I'm pretty sure you looked at the Exterior news and saw along with us killing restarts. Yet you said nothing of it then so that makes you equally as guilty. (and if not you i garuntee at least someone in slob saw it)

After you killed me I didn't bother being active in the game. So no I didn't see it. If I did then you bet I would have reported the loophole. I already make Mr P fix all the minor things....this is just one of the things that didn't get caught and became major.

[Disorder]

Haha.. Nice try ALI.. I still have 3 kills on yall today!!

[Crimson Shadow]

dodgy stuff:

Swapping GB, Vacation mode abuse,

Alright I wasn't thinking of these things. Shady things made me think of bugs that I was unaware of.

If this is what you meant by shady things Pron, I apologize for calling you out.



So you think all loopholes are just shady activities that should be overlooked? You say this now, but if the tables were turned then I think you would be upset and want action.

[pron]

And how does he penalize them then? Talk to each state individually and ask them if they knew what they were doing was wrong? You say penalize those that need be, wouldn't that include any state who made an attack on the two dead states?

If each case is to be analyzed case by case, then yes, prez should look into each and every state. IF he wants to be fair, he should address all the states--or just roll it back and punish the person declaring. I didn't declare. Explain to me why I should be punished in this situation.

If you reinstate the two dead states, then the only thing left is to punish the states that knowingly misused the principle. You need to prove that they knew about it, and they knew what they were doing was wrong. Can you do those for me?

So what defines a "shady action" from cheating?

Shady=GB trading, selling goods cheaply at end of set to help out the casher friend, putting spies in nations, suiciding (don't know how Patriot act is working right now so it's under shady), creating nations to use as bank while not in a nation, etc etc.

Cheating=using auto refresher, creating multiple accounts, using bots, etc etc.

[Crimson Shadow]

Read my post because I know by your response you didnt.
they came out of vacation with friends by friends I mean Anton and his crew and gave us a good ole fashion *** whoopin.

I wasn't fully active in the set when all the vacation wars were occurring. I wanted to avoid posting a comment about it in this thread because I'm not fully aware of both sides of the argument, but I felt brave and probably made myself look like an ***

I'm not sure when pres revised the TOS/Privacy Statement so I'm not sure what it said when this occurred. However, this is again the result of if pres acts and kicks them from vacation they are pissed, if he doesn't then you guys are pissed. Its always a lose/lose situation for him.

Poor pres

[Crimson Shadow]

If each case is to be analyzed case by case, then yes, prez should look into each and every state. IF he wants to be fair, he should address all the states--or just roll it back and punish the person declaring. I didn't declare. Explain to me why I should be punished in this situation.

If you reinstate the two dead states, then the only thing left is to punish the states that knowingly misused the principle. You need to prove that they knew about it, and they knew what they were doing was wrong. Can you do those for me?

So you want him to take the time to personally contact each state that made an attack? By the time he talks to 2 people it will be passed along to play ignorant about the rule so that turns are restored. There is no logical way to talk to each state and to know that they are telling the truth.

There isn't 1 way to punish an offender without pissing off another person in the same nation. If pres punished the people who "knowingly misused the principle" then I know there would be someone upset at that because its not fair.



@ Disorder: Nice delete

[Will]

Alright I wasn't thinking of these things. Shady things made me think of bugs that I was unaware of.

If this is what you meant by shady things Pron, I apologize for calling you out.



So you think all loopholes are just shady activities that should be overlooked? You say this now, but if the tables were turned then I think you would be upset and want action.

Most loopholes are, yes. One or two are more serious, but in these cases it should be clearly identified that using them will result in state deletion, rather than a somewhat ambiguous "it's against the rules" when not updating the TOS/Patriot Act.

[pron]

Alright I wasn't thinking of these things. Shady things made me think of bugs that I was unaware of.

If this is what you meant by shady things Pron, I apologize for calling you out.



So you think all loopholes are just shady activities that should be overlooked? You say this now, but if the tables were turned then I think you would be upset and want action.

Np Crimson. <3 you

I'm not saying no action. I'm saying fair action. It seems like Prez is adopting your same stance--"It's not a big deal because LOR will win anyways". Which is wrong.

An admin shouldn't affect the game, no matter the predetermined result. He should aim for fairness to each and every player. The SLOB players got reinstated. If Prez rolled back all the LOR states--it would have been completely even, as if nothing happened. Fix the loop, and nothing can happen in the future with it. If he thinks the person's responsible will try to push the envelope and abuse loopholes, then he should punish those. Deletion would be extreme in this case, as the TOS doesn't have it and not everyone checks all forum postings. Something in between nothing and what Prez did is what should have happened, but Prez (imo) overstepped his bounds as admin and gave an advantage.

Also, it matters to me because my state effectively loses 300 turns. Anyone would be upset by that if you're trying to have a strong state in a war.

[Crimson Shadow]

Most loopholes are, yes. One or two are more serious, but in these cases it should be clearly identified that using them will result in state deletion, rather than a somewhat ambiguous "it's against the rules" when not updating the TOS/Patriot Act.

See this is what I can't follow. Pres is supposed to know ahead of time what the loophole will be and then put it in the TOS? If he puts in "If you use a serious loophole you will be deleted," then how do you define serious?

Sorry if I'm not understanding what your posting...I'm going on low hours of sleep from watching my state all night and I'm tired