I agree fully with his decision to move troops into Afghanistan...
It is needed, although the time frame seems a little short its something that needs to be finished up...
discusss.....
Obama's National Address
I agree fully with his decision to move troops into Afghanistan...
It is needed, although the time frame seems a little short its something that needs to be finished up...
discusss.....
First Lieutenant
I agree.. lets get in there and finish the job...
I do not agree with a public announced deadline, however, I agree we should have one, but not public informed.
Command Sergeant
i wouldnt freak out about the deadline if the job aint done we wont pull out.Originally Posted by Disorder
[A] [SOUL] [WLF]x3 [TNG]x7 [LoR]x3 [XF]x2 [TNG] Currently owning in: TNG
joey i understand that i just dont agree with it publically announched as he did because it leaves more room for people to *****... as it is people started to protest at the gate of west point
(i live in orange county and my buddy works at the 911 center there) they were calling for all available police units to close on the thayor gate of west point 1 of 2 public entrances to help with control
First Lieutenant
I disagree with the deadline from the enemies perspective.. they can simply go into hiding for 18 months, then continue their mission..
Private First Class
The public announcement of the withdrawl of combat forces I have no problem with. For one, we did not announce the time-line for withdraw so hiding for 18 months isn't exactly accurate.
What worries me most is that Afganistan is not a homogeneous culture. The pashtun makeup a large percent of the population in the Taliban control areas in Afganistan and Pakistan. Until we are able to bring pashtun tribal leaders on our side, we will be fighting a winless ethnic battle that's been going on for ages.
As long as we just kill insurgents and do nothing to help the local tribes, the people of Afganistan will view us as an enemy. Right now the Taliban are brutal, but they support the local economies via less than legal methods.
As much as I hate the idea of nation-building, that is the only way to reduce violence and isolate the extremists. The schooling systems in the rural areas of Pakistan and Afganistan are non-existent. Extremists pay parents to send their kids to madrassas where they learn a false version of Islam and become the next generation of extremists.
If we are going to make Afganistan work, we need to do the following:
1) Invest in local tribes. Provide material for infrastructure and require the local tribes to the labor. This requires more than just dumping money, it requires human contact, coordination, and understanding of the villages. People don't want war, they want to see that we are there to help.
2) Understand Islamic law. While we may not agree with many of the tenets, it is the law that many extremists exploit to justify their actions. Islamic law incorporates duty. People owe a duty to their tribe under islamic law, and if the tribal leader tells people to pick up arms--they must do so. By navigating the islamic judicial system in the proper way, it will be easier to have understanding with the people who matter and bring them into being part of the solution rather than our adversaries.
3) Provide economic incentives. Many of the people who we kill are doing bad things; unfortunately, they do this not because they have strong ideological beliefs, but because they are being paid enough money to help support their families. Giving money to the central Afghanistan government has proven to be ineffective. The money does not go into the areas that could benefit most from it. The US government spends about a million dollars to build a school in Afghanistan, yet NGO's are able to build schools for 15K USD. Relying on US government contractors is not helping the people of Afghanistan. We spend a lot of money in Afghanistan, yet we are not employing the right people. Govt contractors make a lot of money to go from the US to Afghanistan. This does nothing to help Afghanistan people once we pull out. Provide jobs for Afghanistan people.
4) Speak with neighboring countries and get their involvement and pledges to help. Those governments have a vested interest in a stable Afghanistan. They also are more aware of ethnic tensions that exist and know how the tribal systems operate. The US wants to spread democracy, but that is impossible in the current atmosphere over there. The region and governance is patriarchal.
Most important is that we need to show respect. We paint a broad picture of the people over there, and stereotype them as terrorists--when the vast majority aren't. They are people who just really want to be left alone, and a minority of those people are extremists who profit off of other peoples fears.
Hall of Fame Asst Commissioner
The US should learn from the mistakes of Britain and the USSR. Afghanistan is the graveyeard of armies, where all the Taliban has to do to "win" is survive long enough for the west to get sick of it and pull out. I say let them have Afghanistan, it isn't worth the life of a single British (or American) soldier.
Private First Class
I'm not completely against everything you said. I do believe that Afghanistan isn't a war you can win. I believe the way you win in Afghanistan is through humanitarian work. I also think that the Taliban need to be brought into the fold. They are the one government who was successful, although it was through cruel methods. I look at it this way, I would much rather work with a government who has control of its population (i.e., Iran, North Korea) than a government that is non-existent (somalia). Iran and North Korea we know we don't like what they are doing, but it is a government that runs pretty successfully and isn't going to do too many stupid things. If we get the smart Taliban back into the fold of the Afghan govt so that they have a vested interested (also the taliban need to rebrand themselves with another name that does not have the stigma that it currently holds) in the success of the country, then we will be able to ensure terrorists don't have a free ride there.
Taliban are not the same as Al Queda, but right now they both have a common enemy (allied forces). Al queda has a global mission while Taliban's goals are local. Work with Taliban and support humanitarian projects and economic projects that don't push western values and you have a very powerful group (taliban) on your side. They can be bought (and were bought in the USSR struggle) and place conditions for further investment.
Captain
Afgahns are not stupid.
They realize that US have blow the hell of out their neighboring countries killing millions.
Is every US citizen coerced?
You people discuss these matters as if they make some difference as to what is happening.
America kills people and steals their lands and materials.
no one is fooled.
Z
Last edited by -Z-; 12-02-2009 at 22:13.
[WLF] = the greatest nation ever to exisit, in any game, in any universe, of all time, period.
First Lieutenant
Snowed in smoking a little happy weed again tonight Z?
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