Discussion: Standard attack formula.

[neemekas]

Firstly i would like to say: my English isn't very good, but I hope you understand mostly what I mean here.


Ok to the thread.

I know NW have own traditions and rules from old WoW game.
I am Estonian player, so I know everything about our game "Domination".

As most of you know that these 2 games have different standart attack formula. Of course both have here own plusses or minuses, but I think we should change NW SA formula a bit. I dont know how exatly, but something must be done.

Why we need to do that?

I think with stradegy farmer, scientist or maybe even casher (not sure) you CAN'T win set no mather how good player you are. Even BEST players can't win with farmer or scientist (casher maybe). Indy is only stradegy here what brings us to TOP! WE SHOULD CHANGE IT SOMEHOW and best we can do is changing SA formula (I think).

In domination of course most of the best players played indy to get TOP, but there you could get TOP also with farmer, casher or scientist. I have won 1 set in domination and with FARMER. Can someone do this in NW?



Thoughts and critique are welcome!

EDIT: My friend skycat told that with casher you can win set in NW, but mostly I mean here farmer. Discuss!


If someone have time, then please correct my mistakes here too. I have to learn English more.

[pron]

What's wrong with the SA formula that you want to change and how is it limiting to the other strats besides indy?

[-Z-]

welcome,


this game is a game of time. time is key.

indys allways come out in the lead,

but if you play it right useing stocking, cashing, researching and proper grabbing, (jets agms) cashers and farmers can do well.


i have seen cashers win in the past i think.


Z

[SkyCat]

i have seen cashers win in the past i think.

DOLLY

[neemekas]

Ok casher is OK then, but you still can't win set with farmer.
You cant make right stock here!

Some examples from NW and Domination SA formula:

NW:

Your land: 12000
Opponent land: 12000
SA's down: 5
You get: 336

Your land: 5000
Opponent land: 3000
SA's down: 1
You get: 179

Your land: 25000
Opponent land: 35000
SA's down: 4
You get: 1785

Your land: 8000
Opponent land: 17000
SA's down: 10
You get: 452

Your land: 17000
Opponent land: 10000
SA's down: 8
You get: 181


Domination:

Your land: 12000
Opponent land: 12000
SA's down: 5
You get: 262

Your land: 5000
Opponent land: 3000
SA's down: 1
You get: 164

Your land: 25000
Opponent land: 35000
SA's down: 4
You get: 1420

Your land: 8000
Opponent land: 17000
SA's down: 10
You get: 81

Your land: 17000
Opponent land: 10000
SA's down: 8
You get: 86

SPECIALLY LOOK AT THE 4TH EXAMPLE!

[Dogma]

I have been in top 3 using farmer, but that was because nation members help 1 and 2. But if played correctly, there are ways it can be done.

Also Since we just got the game back, I see no real reason to make that type of change at this time, lets play it for a while and get a better fssl for what is what.

[Crimson Shadow]

I honestly see no reason to change it at the moment. Yes more land gets taken from you, however it is not like those grabs apply only to farmer/techers. Grabs do not favor certain strats over another is what I'm trying to say.

If the strat is played right it could win the set. I've finished top 5 multiple times with casher, but I've never played farmer or techer so I can't say how easy it would be to do with those. You just have to stragetize a little more when you are not playing indy.

[youngwebsolutions]

as already stated by mr. P. we won't change anything on the game for next couple of rounds
Except for bug fixing, and minor improvements

If we face that a certain strategy is too strong/too weak we will make of course adjustments based on the players input!

We very welcome your inpunt, but just let's play now for a set or 2 and see what this all brings..
We all have to get used to this code (again, or completly) and time will tell if somthing is right or wrong.


Please keep bringing your input for the game, but keep in mind that big changes will not be implemented upcoming sets.. (we spend already a lot of time getting this too work and wanna play a bit now as well )

will keep an eye on all your suggestions however!

[Rassputtin]

I definitly don't think changes should be made just yet, I mean we are only a few days into the first set. Unless of course they are glaring flaws of which I believe there are none.

However I will mention that in the past many many moons ago, I made the same arguement to svenne in regards to the fact that every strat should be 100% equal. There should be no better chance of winning the game based on the strat you use but instead winning the game should be based on how well you play whatever strat you choose.

Granted you guys arent svenne, and this aint WOW, but for example 1000 acres of farmland should produce the same dollar amount of food as 1000 acres of indy land would produce units. Thats just an example of equalness. I'm not sure changing LG formula is solution.

Mattter of fact its been so long since I played or analyzed it that I couldnt even be sure there is actually a problem with the strat balance. So i suppose as YWS said, wait and see if after a few sets if there actually is an inbalance before the code is tinkered with unwarranted.

Also, you all should look forward to my red turn thread. havent created it yet, but I will. The arguement I had with svenne for years will be brought to YWS and Pres. :-)

[Mr President]

Ok casher is OK then, but you still can't win set with farmer.
You cant make right stock here!

Some examples from NW and Domination SA formula:

NW:

Your land: 12000
Opponent land: 12000
SA's down: 5
You get: 336

Your land: 5000
Opponent land: 3000
SA's down: 1
You get: 179

Your land: 25000
Opponent land: 35000
SA's down: 4
You get: 1785

Your land: 8000
Opponent land: 17000
SA's down: 10
You get: 452

Your land: 17000
Opponent land: 10000
SA's down: 8
You get: 181


Domination:

Your land: 12000
Opponent land: 12000
SA's down: 5
You get: 262

Your land: 5000
Opponent land: 3000
SA's down: 1
You get: 164

Your land: 25000
Opponent land: 35000
SA's down: 4
You get: 1420

Your land: 8000
Opponent land: 17000
SA's down: 10
You get: 81

Your land: 17000
Opponent land: 10000
SA's down: 8
You get: 86

SPECIALLY LOOK AT THE 4TH EXAMPLE!

I don't think his complaint is all about the strats. I think it's also on the amount of land he is getting per attack and seeing it is low, he is thinking that he will never win a set running farmer.

I'm not sure about the Estonian server, but in this game we have what we call a GB formula. What this does is limit how much land you get off someone based on prior attack (last 36hrs).

If you SA a state, and get 100 land, and then do another attack on him, you will get 30% less land each attack thereafter.

This helps keep your land. If we didn't have a GB formula then you would lose a lot of land each attack.

Also, we are only a few days in the set. So land amounts are not that high. So when you attack, you only gain a certain amount of land anyway. Once we get further in the set, you will see your land grabs much higher.

-Z- is 100% correct when he said this is a game of time. You have to search your grabs and put time into your state.. If not, then your payoff will be less.

As for strat balance. I do believe they are pretty close. I know svenne put a lot of effort into making them as balanced as possible. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it is pretty close i think.

Farmer strat is a strong strat. Your not seeing a lot of food purchased at the moment cause states are still small. Once we get about 1/2- 3/4 through the set, you will see food prices shoot up cause there will be a shortage of it. And then farmers will reap the rewards of higher priced food cause casher and indy states will have so many more military units by then.

Just remember, we are only a few days in the set so things are slower and less at the moment.

I'm not against making changes, and i encourage everyone to voice there opinion. We are listening. We may not act on a change right at that minute, but it all goes on a list of things to keep and eye on or even change later down the road.

The Estonian code is an older code so again, i'm not sure if it has the GB formula in it or not. Or if it does, it may be an older version of the formula.

But i do know back in WoW days, there were a few nations and states that placed very high running farmer. And i know you can win a set as a casher cause many of the states in my nation has done so.. granted i was never good enough to finish first ..