Discussion: Standard attack formula.

[Tnova]

If my memory serves me correct, the primary reason the grab formula was changed was to limit stocking. The effect was to make people want to jump higher in order to keep the land advantage by staying higher and limiting the number of players that could grab them. This would induce more expense and limit stocking with out changing the balance of the individual strats.

However it is nearly impossible for a casher/farmer to jump to the front and play like an indy player does(unless you get creative). Because, there is an imbalance with the strats at the start of the set and that grab formula change did widen this gap some. The grab formula really benefits the person with lower land now, so if you have a lot of land and stay around people with lets say around 50% of your land, then it is going to cost you, even if you have quiet a few hits on your state with in the last 36 hours.

My personal opinion, and i posted on this last year, the real imbalance is how the strategies relate and benefit the nations. No other nation can keep up with a pure indy nation, and this aids there ability to jump out front early and have someone maintain the lead. All the other pure nation strats have to have a higher tax longer, and in cashers case have double the tech cost, and still can't compete with the benefits indy nations get from being double tax( donation to nation army, and sales from market goods) at no cost to the individual states. Even large multi strat nations can't really do the trick. There were plenty of times where individual state wise people have been able to out jump an indy player early in the game, but the nations have problems supporting that state.

The best player rarely wins as markets, wars, and nation set up can change the outcome for any player. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but sometimes you got a player who really has no clue what they are doing(although they think they are hot stuff), and one of the things above can happen and allow them to take the lead.

[neemekas]

I am not saying we have to change SA formula now, we should try to make in future yes, like you said maybe in 2-3 sets.
It's not possible in NW to get like 17k land if you are in like 80. place and 40-79. place have 10k land. You will be always grabbed down.

I think you cant go TOP3 with farmer when there isnt any wars, with just netting i think it's kinda impossible. I dont know, maybe some good player want to take challenge and prove me that i am wrong.

But dont get me wrong, my favourite stradegy is indy, but if there is like half set played you can see exactly who is gonna win this set without war. In domination, if there was like half set played, good farmer could jump to TOP5 and make things more interesting.

[Dogma]

This isn't Domination, This is Nation Wars. The Domination server is still running I presume?

[Xavior]

Every strat has won a set in WoW. Evil n00b won once or twice as Techer. And there were quite a few sets (I think back to FW) where farmers ruled the top and won. But of course, this was before the grab formula was changed so our stocking farmer strat was much more difficult to play.

[evilnoob]

If everyone just read Tnovas post again. There is a reason he has been ranked 1 in a suicide list long time.

Mr_President: neemekas explained the difference in GB formula for domination & NW. But no offence, only skilled players can see it just by reading once and maybe not even then


What neemekas says is that the strategies is not balanced, considering the top 1 rank. And this thread is about that. Not about top 10.

Indy just join any indy nation, and if he is just know little bit about SA, he can win.

Casher need a good nation to get top 1. Or need to be good. Preferable both, or it gets hard. If you plan to have atleast top 4 in your nation, then there might be advantage to be casher. Preferable to get nation average record.

Farmer is made for stockpiling. The gb formula prevents stockpiling now. You will not win as a stockpiler. So there is a smal problem. But it can be done.
You dont play farmer to get top 1, you play farmer to get a big fat nw record.

Techer... well only reason to win as techer is to prove that you can do it
You need a few friends to kill off everyone that comes close to you once your science stops selling. Maybe you need to have 10-20 states killed?

[Dogma]

I always thought it was because he was good at catching people exploiting bugs.

[neemekas]

Thank you evilnoob for helping me out.
Good post +1.

[Mr President]

Mr_President: neemekas explained the difference in GB formula for domination & NW. But no offence, only skilled players can see it just by reading once and maybe not even then

Well i did read his post wrong. I went back and read is again. But i will agree i am far from a skilled player ..

Farmer is made for stockpiling. The gb formula prevents stockpiling now. You will not win as a stockpiler. So there is a smal problem. But it can be done.
You dont play farmer to get top 1, you play farmer to get a big fat nw record.

This doesn't make sense to me. It kind of seems like you contradict yourself. You say farmer is for stockpiling and you won't win, but then you say ppl play farmer to get the big fat net worth.. well wouldn't a big fat networth put you in 1st place?

anyway, these conversations are the same as we had in WoW. I'm not saying all strats are balanced though and down the line we can look into changing them. I still feel that the best way to take the top spot is to war your way there. You don't have to be the best netter in the game to win a top spot. Just kill off anyone in your way

[neemekas]

You said that all strats arent balanced, but we should balance them! At the moment, I am TOP2 in NW, i am not scared of any farmers, becouse I know they wont catch me never without war, it's impossible. I dont have to look out from them. In Domination you never knew, maybe there was 1 good stocker, who can come TOP and take your land. You had always look out, you had to make spy op's to find out how good are someone. But here is nothing, there isnt coming no1 from 100. place to TOP1. BOORING lets say.

True war is best way to win, if your nation is active and skilled players are with you. A lot of Estonian came now here to play, I think all knows how well we can net or war. Many pple are even scared of us, maybe even think we shouldn't play (there were some pple in wow times who thougth that). I can go to TOP with or without war, if I want, it's not problem for me. But I just want there will be more better players who net for 1st place. Some good stockers could come out when there is last 10 days left and make game more and more interesting and attractive for all. I think all want to see how TOP changes a lot and good players changing places. It's just booring when you play first 5 days and all know who is gonna win set WITHOUT war yes.

More balance to strats, work on that President!

[Mr President]

You said that all strats arent balanced, but we should balance them! At the moment, I am TOP2 in NW, i am not scared of any farmers, becouse I know they wont catch me never without war, it's impossible. I dont have to look out from them. In Domination you never knew, maybe there was 1 good stocker, who can come TOP and take your land. You had always look out, you had to make spy op's to find out how good are someone. But here is nothing, there isnt coming no1 from 100. place to TOP1. BOORING lets say.

True war is best way to win, if your nation is active and skilled players are with you. A lot of Estonian came now here to play, I think all knows how well we can net or war. Many pple are even scared of us, maybe even think we shouldn't play (there were some pple in wow times who thougth that). I can go to TOP with or without war, if I want, it's not problem for me. But I just want there will be more better players who net for 1st place. Some good stockers could come out when there is last 10 days left and make game more and more interesting and attractive for all. I think all want to see how TOP changes a lot and good players changing places. It's just booring when you play first 5 days and all know who is gonna win set WITHOUT war yes.

More balance to strats, work on that President!

I said, "I'm not saying all strats are balanced though". Basically that is leaving my opinion free cause honestly i don't know. When i played WoW before i didn't care. netting was not my thing so i didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it. And now, yes i have the code and i host the game, but that does not mean i know it inside and out yet. After getting the code, my main goal was to get it up and going. Not to fix every little thing that people say is wrong with it and then put it up. The game is the same as it left off.

Prior to this game we had NWII which i spent many months fixing up and making it a decent game. And then this game came back, so i stopped working on that and worked on getting this game up and going. So i have been doing a lot for a long time now and i'm not doing anything with this game for a few sets. Sorry, but i do have a life and i would like to just sit back and play this game a few sets before i do anything to it.

Also, let's not forget that the members on the EE server have been playing this game while the rest of us haven't. Many of us want to get the feel for it again and relearn how to play it. So jumping right in and making changes is not the best idea.

In NWII i made the mistake of making changes to many time without really seeing how it all panned out. I will not do that again in this game. Before changes can be made, things need to be looked into further. So far the only people who keep telling us to change the game is the members from the Estonian server. That is cause your use to that game and want to make this game like that one. I'm not saying your suggestions are not welcome, but let's slow down some. Telling me to "work on that" isn't going to help either ..

Once we play a couple of sets and see how things play out, then we will look into what needs to be changed to make things even, or better. But playing this game for a week and then making changes on it is dumb in my opinion.

And i'm sorry, but i don't feel the same way as you do. I honestly don't know who is going to win the set. You seem to know, but i also think you are underestimating some of the members we have from WoW. The Estonians are great players and will do well i'm sure. But like i said, 90% of us are just getting back into this game and getting use to things again. Once some of the regular players who always did well in WoW get back in the swing of things, you won't be so "bored".

We are merging 2 servers in this game. Our version and the EE version. it will take some time for BOTH sides to get use to playing the game with eachother again and getting use to how each of us play. I don't think anyone dislikes anyone else, i think it's just a relearning period for all of us.
But in the end, i think everything will be fine.