Gestapo Takes Swift action

[ooga booga]

There are always two sides to every story. I have just read this thread and seen Hoe's side, now I'm interested to see what an Admin has to say on the subject. Then and only then will I form a final opinion. From Hoe's viewpoint and thus the story so far, it doesn't seem like he has done anything wrong. The post about "stop posting state numbers" was the 3rd post in the thread saying that, and he followed it by 3 smiley faces, to me an indicator he was joking around in the first place. Then his comment he made about BB was hardly bashing (a mere poke) but the mod had the right to edit it since that is their job. To me I don't see this small little incident being the removal of the Dev Team, I would bet there is a bigger picture or more incidents we are unaware of. And that is why before people pick sides it's good to hear both sides of the story.

[Guy77]

So far there has been alot of discussion on this thread, so i guess i am going to put in my two cents and see where it goes

I agree w/ ranger when he says there is no mod problem. ( don't really think this is the topic, but it ended up being discussed) The mods have seemed pretty fair, and are alright guys ( except vinnie =P )

I think that if there is a problem w/ a mod / admin that is should be taken care of via PM w/ the Global Mods or whoever is suppose to handle that sort of thing ( I believe BB is? and i guess Mr. P if you have a problem w/ bb? dunno tho) 9 times outta 10 you end up making your self look silly when you do it publicly ( RAF ) Hoe posting this does not make him look silly, and i think at times it does need to be discussed publicly on the forums
As for Hoe being removed from the dev team, oh well. Get over it hoe. If you did something to piss off BB or whoever, then its your problem. The tos says no "bashig" of the admins/mods. And you know that "bashing" is defined by them, and their say is final. So i think this thread is a little pointless, but hey, i do love debate.

Hey, does this mean there is a dev spot open?

[Mr President]

Interesting little saga we have here.

BB runs the forums. She is the one who decides who is who. The only time i ever get involved is when A) Someone needs to be banned B) personal issues have come into play when making a decision C) Things are just so out of control someone else needs to look into things.

I'm not sure about the conversations between BB and Hoe. I have yet to catch up on everything that was said.

But i'm confused here a little. Last month i brought up an idea that allowed the whole community a chance at having a say in how things were ran. But it was shot down. Actually i don't think 1 person agreed with me. YOU ALL said no lets keep it the way it is. And now, your all complaining cause of the way it is..

The rules are clear. These kinds of issues are to be handled privately. Not for public display. This thread is nothing more then a feel sorry for me thread. Someone doesn't like a decision made so they make a post here to try and rally everyone else up in there favor. This ticks me off more then anything!

Seeing you want to make everything public in this case, then there is no need for me to keep my say private.

Hoe all you did was make a mockery of this whole thing starting back in the state # post. You of all people know you should not post what a mod has said to you. Warnings are sent in a [PM] PRIVATE MESSAGE for a reason. If it was meant for public eyes then it wouldn't be a "private message" would it?

For months now i have sat back and read posts made between you and another member who constantly push the limits. But i haven't said anything.
When it got to far out of hand i simply edited it. You were a member of the Dev team, someone who was suppose to be setting an example but instead you wrote your own rule book and did as you wanted. You know the rules clear as day, but yet last set i had to send you a message to remove the F word off a title of one of your members. When in fact, it never should have been there to begin with. A new member who doesn't know any better, fine i can handle that, but someone who has been here for so long?

This whole thread is the stupid **** i can't stand. If you had a problem with BB's decision then you come to me about it. Not the whole community. The only reason you did this was to make BB and the rest of us look stupid. And
now you have everyone feeling sorry for you, but yet they don't know everything. You point just one thing out and say this is why you were let go and then they think we are being mean and picking on you. Didn't you get a warning a while back clearly stating if you pulled stuff like that again you wouldn't be a part of the Dev Team? Where was that mentioned?

The fact that you bashed BB is not the case. Of course that was nothing serious, we all bash from time to time.. What you did was, took sean's warning and laughed at him and ignored it. You then went and RE-POSTED the same post, but this time added what Sean's warning said and again laughed at him. Then you have the balls to turn it around and make it look like Sean owes you an apology?

FIRST, As a member of the Dev Team you should know the difference between a warning and a edited post notification. Sean sent you a EPN not a warning. So you should have left it at that, or if you disagreed with it you should have went to BB to talk about it. Not go by your own rules and say well hey i'm hoe so i will do what i want and they will deal with it.

Funny thing is, as soon as i saw Sean's EPN report, i told him he didn't need to issue these anymore and simply just edit the posts and then i was going to remove it from you and explain why i did.. But then i log on and see what you did.. So you tell me, who really has shown the disrespect here? The rules are set in place for a reason. If you don't like them then simply work with me on changing them. Don't go off and ignore the ones you don't like.

And to finish this book i'm writting, the dev team is dead. Has been dead for a long time now. Only time anything is posted in there is if i post it. And yes i have talked about dropping it for some time now, then i decided i would leave it but there is still no new posts. Yes i said i was taking a break, but that doesn't mean you still can't post ideas or things you feel needs working on. And in the old NWII game, same thing.. nobody posted. And that game had so much potential that the dev section should have had more posts then any other section. But it didn't. Calvin even tried getting things going in there for me, and he had the same issues.. So don't make this into such a huge deal like the Dev Team is the foundation of this game and you have been unjustly pulled out of it. What the Dev Team truely is right now is about 4 people with a colored name.

So to me this all seems like your upset cause you lost your colored name. All of this over a stupid colored name?

So go on and continue your rantings about how unfair all this is and continue getting member support. And when your done making everything public then feel free to talk to me in private. But let me give you a heads up, i wouldn't take my discussions public.

Sorry if you don't like what i had to say here, but seeing you took this whole issue public i felt that more information needed to be told too.. Not just your side.. And this is just what i had to say about it, i haven't even talked to BB on here side yet.. But it bugs me when people who claim to do all they can for the game and then break the rules that they clearly know when something happens they don't like..

Bottom line, you should have came to me before even saying a word.. Cause now i really have no sympathy for you.

[Dogma]

If that doesn't clear it, your eyes are closed.

[pron]

You make some good points Pres, but I still have a few unanswered questions.

1. If you're supposed to be consulted whenever "A) Someone needs to be banned B) personal issues have come into play when making a decision C) Things are just so out of control someone else needs to look into things." It seems like this might be one of those times, but it also looks like BB circumvented A on you, and is possibly B with this. As far as C goes, I'm thinking that someone else did need to look into this. The fact that you posted w/o talking to BB tells me you're assuming much about this situation--not that I'm not doing the same

2. "But i'm confused here a little. Last month i brought up an idea that allowed the whole community a chance at having a say in how things were ran. But it was shot down. Actually i don't think 1 person agreed with me. YOU ALL said no lets keep it the way it is. And now, your all complaining cause of the way it is.. "
The reason I voted against this was because it would've been chaos. Now, things are good for the most part, but I think that Admin/Mod "bashing" needs to be looked at, especially when Hoe got edited for such a stupid reason.

3. "The rules are clear. These kinds of issues are to be handled privately." Haven't Hoe and BB been talkign privately about these things for the past two months--seems it came to a head recently. I think it's within Hoe's rights to post in the community to see if he's offbase in the way he's thinking. He even alluded to a previous episode where it was handled privately--see his first post.

4. "yet last set i had to send you a message to remove the F word off a title of one of your members" Since when are leaders responsible for their followers state names????

5. "You of all people know you should not post what a mod has said to you." I would contest this, especially in light of the fact that it's all behind the scenes, and the mod editing the post was for a very silly reason. Maybe we should change the policy of the admin/mod bashing so that people won't get edited for sarcastic remarks that are obviously not to be taken seriously.

6. "You point just one thing out and say this is why you were let go and then they think we are being mean and picking on you. Didn't you get a warning a while back clearly stating if you pulled stuff like that again you wouldn't be a part of the Dev Team? Where was that mentioned?"

Hoe's original message--"a previous event which i wont bring up but im sure Mr P and BB know wat im talking about

Regardless of whether it was discussed or not before, it's silly that Hoe loses devo team because of BB overreacting to Hoe's overreaction of Sean's overreaction. The whole post notification reason was ridiculous.

7. "What you did was, took sean's warning and laughed at him and ignored it." That's because it was a stupid warning and should be looked at whether or not it should even be a reason to edit a post. "we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together" What kind of reasoning is that????

8. "FIRST, As a member of the Dev Team you should know the difference between a warning and a edited post notification." See quote from #7 where you called it a warning--seems we all make mistakes when categorizing PM's.

9. "And to finish this book i'm writting, the dev team is dead." This is probably a topic for another thread, as I do see a need for a dev team (although from the sounds of it, one that is more active). However, you can't use this as a reason to lessen the blow because only Hoe lost his dev team status. Was anyone else kicked out, or was it just Hoe singled out? I'm sure it doesn't make Hoe feel any better.

10. "But it bugs me when people who claim to do all they can for the game and then break the rules that they clearly know when something happens they don't like"
It would bug me too if people break the rules when they clearly know them, however, it's every community members right to challenge the rules in ways that will get noticed by others. MLK didn't have black people sitting in the front of the bus or in the restaurants just so he could break a rule--he did it so people would know the rule is stupid and should be changed.

11. THE ONLY REASON I'M POSTING SO MUCH IS I WANT THIS WHOLE ADMIN/MOD BASHING RULE LOOKED AT. It seems like if the rule wasn't so silly, then Hoe wouldn't have been edited, and then he wouldn't have reposted in rage, and then BB wouldn't have kicked him off the now worthless Dev team. Seems like the rule should be changed.

[MAGGIO]

LOL well said Mr P. I knew this was coming.

Just make sure you guys know that this was not a Mod thing. It was between the Admin and a Member, and the Mods had nothing to do with it at all.

There has got to be more to this story than what meets the eye.

[pron]

If that doesn't clear it, your eyes are closed.

My eyes be closed.

[MAGGIO]

Pron you have to understand that Hoe acted out of line by messing with Sean. The Admins, Mods, Dev, and Bookies are a team here. We have a team leader which is BB. If Hoe had a problem with PCgluva, then he should have brought it up to BB, not the community.

Further more this is something that he agreed to do ahead of time in order to be apart of the team. I guess he forgot about it or something?

[pron]

LOL well said Mr P. I knew this was coming.

Just make sure you guys know that this was not a Mod thing. It was between the Admin and a Member, and the Mods had nothing to do with it at all.

There has got to be more to this story than what meets the eye.

As mods, don't you have discretionary powers to say what is and what is not bashing? And don't you have caties to discern when a rule is right and when a rule is wrong?

There was a mod who edited the post and who stated it was because "we cant run the bored if the structure isnt held together". Does that make any sense to anyone else? I could see it if there was a lot of chaos and personal remarks, but a harmless sarcastic bash with plenty of smiley faces afterwards is no reason for a post edit.

None of this would've happened if that rule wasn't so stringently followed and/or if the mod would've used discretion. Hoe needed discretion too--but he's not the only person in the wrong here.

[pron]

Pron you have to understand that Hoe acted out of line by messing with Sean. The Admins, Mods, Dev, and Bookies are a team here. We have a team leader which is BB. If Hoe had a problem with PCgluva, then he should have brought it up to BB, not the community.

Further more this is something that he agreed to do ahead of time in order to be apart of the team. I guess he forgot about it or something?

And you'd follow a rule if it doesn't make sense? He may have acted out of line--but he had GOOD REASON TO--and behind the scenes, Hoe and BB don't work well together .