Guns for everyone?

[Acetriad]

The more gun control you have the less guns that people who obey the law have, right? What about the people who don't obey the law? They are the ones we need to worry about anyway.
Anyone ever read any of the "in the Ashes" books by William W. Johnstone? Like "Fire in the Ashes", or "Anarchy in the Ashes"? I honestly think that General Raines had it just about right with his Tri-States. (Mr. P. you especially I believe would really like reading that series, I think they would be up your alley)
All citicens were armed, crime wasn't tolerated, everyone who could work, was given a job, and if you didn't like it, you got escorted to the border.

[ranger2112]

sounds like paradise

[Warl0rd]

The more gun control you have the less guns that people who obey the law have, right? What about the people who don't obey the law? They are the ones we need to worry about anyway.
Anyone ever read any of the "in the Ashes" books by William W. Johnstone? Like "Fire in the Ashes", or "Anarchy in the Ashes"? I honestly think that General Raines had it just about right with his Tri-States. (Mr. P. you especially I believe would really like reading that series, I think they would be up your alley)
All citicens were armed, crime wasn't tolerated, everyone who could work, was given a job, and if you didn't like it, you got escorted to the border.

Do you have any idea about where do criminals get the guns? i'll give you a hint, they are sold legally in every corner.

[Spetznaz_GRU]

huh, u talking to me. sorry was wondering about emigrating to one of those "cooler" countries...NOTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!! ok spetz, lets settle this. i challenge you to an arm-wrestling contest...pffft

I was going to suggest to show off our feet and see which is bigger, thus being the bigger man as well.

Oh and our countries don't accept retarded rednecks. So don't even act like you don't want to, you just know that you can't.

still many many outstanding loans out there

That's the risk you take when you loan something.

The more gun control you have the less guns that people who obey the law have, right? What about the people who don't obey the law? They are the ones we need to worry about anyway.
Anyone ever read any of the "in the Ashes" books by William W. Johnstone? Like "Fire in the Ashes", or "Anarchy in the Ashes"? I honestly think that General Raines had it just about right with his Tri-States. (Mr. P. you especially I believe would really like reading that series, I think they would be up your alley)
All citicens were armed, crime wasn't tolerated, everyone who could work, was given a job, and if you didn't like it, you got escorted to the border.

Oh stop giving us the same crap over and over again. What do you think? If 100 different people say the same thing, that it sounds like 100 different arguments? You're all copying the last one that said it. So bring something new to this conversation or get the **** out. And if you read stories and believe in them... well go read about the black duckling for all I care. It's FICTION. What don't you get? You're looking like a 5 year old, when grown ups are discussing facts and what actually did happen in history and such and then you come up with saying "oh yeah, but on spiderman they did this and this might be the solution." I mean how retarded can you be?

Do you have any idea about where do criminals get the guns? i'll give you a hint, they are sold legally in every corner.

I just don't get it how you're not tired of explaining the same old thing. Well let me give you this example. Some dude had sex with your wife. You have a gun, you shoot them both. Is this a legit reason to shoot people?

[ranger2112]

nah, i would just shoot my wife...the dude is innocent

[Mwahahahaha]

USA was the shining light in an evil world dominated by evil power hungry empires until the robber barons took over.

The basis of the US nation is something every country should learn from, but something went wrong. From being the country ensuring freedom not only for it's own population, but also with a wish of granting this gift to the rest of the world, it went to being the country wanting to influence everything that happened all over the world towards it's own interest. Something that wouldn't be such a bad thing if it stayed true to the words of the founding fathers, but as we all know, it hasn't.

As for the original subject, gun control, I have difficulties seeing it as anything but a position of capitulation. A position of failure. If common people has to keep guns to protect themselves, clearly it means that someone's done a piss poor job at running things. The path to go from such a problematic situation though, is a tricky one, but to post some thoughts on that. I would never carry weapons. I have difficulties seeing the usefulness. If someone pointed a gun on me, carrying a weapon would ensure that he would pull the trigger. Otherwise, I'd just hand over my wallet and consider it a payment for living a couple of years longer. If situations like that were something I'd have to consider, I'd find a different place to live.

[ranger2112]

i hear the Netherlands are nice

[ooga booga]

I'm sure its lower then US. And the number of death by firearms can't even be compared.

Your the second guy telling this, i guess its a problem with US citizens! they forget that policeman also have guns, and its their job to make sure your safe.

Of course the number of deaths by firearms is going to be lower in the Netherlands. They have only 16 million people living there for goodness sake. Even if you compare per 1,000 people or whatever, of course it will be lower when they lack the huge urban cities that we have over here. Any big city around the world is due to have it's share of crime.

[Acetriad]

Oh stop giving us the same crap over and over again. What do you think? If 100 different people say the same thing, that it sounds like 100 different arguments? You're all copying the last one that said it. So bring something new to this conversation or get the **** out. And if you read stories and believe in them... well go read about the black duckling for all I care. It's FICTION. What don't you get? You're looking like a 5 year old, when grown ups are discussing facts and what actually did happen in history and such and then you come up with saying "oh yeah, but on spiderman they did this and this might be the solution." I mean how retarded can you be?

Well now, I never said that it was a documentary did I? However, the idea of an America with its people armed and trained is a hypothetical situation, because right now its FICTION (my caps-locks works too!) Now, I didn't say that Ben Raines' Tri-States were perfect. I just said that I thought it to be a good system, one that was "just about right" I also wanted to mention some books that like-minded people might enjoy. And if you really want to get cute, I don't think that ol Spidey could quite get stuck into this particular argument, but the whole "With great power comes great responsibility" thing would be a valid argument in the discussion about the U.S. always sticking its nose into other nation's business. So there, I was a six year old for you and and stuck a spiderman reference in for you .
As for facts and figures, If you want facts and figures, here you go. Everytime the American Government severly pisses off the people, crime-rates sky-rocket (good example: prohibiton). Same thing happens on a lesser scale with more moderate irritations... like takeing our guns, or letting murder's and worse walk the streets after spending a year or two in our "criminal education centers" where they are taught to be better and more ruthless criminals (aka. prison).
When gun control is tightened, law abideing people lose their guns. Strangely enough, criminals are not law abideing people. The crime rate goes up.
Sure, cops are there to protect us. I am glad that some of them believe in "Serve and Protect" but too darn many of them believe in "Harrass and Imprison"
You want a fun story? It was in my paper a while ago. A guy goes into a store with a gun and tries to hold the place up. So the owner shoots him. The crook then sues the owner and wins. That right there is the state of the justice system today. I'll bet you that if the crook knew beforhand that the owner of the store was armed, he might have thought twice... but only right-wing redneck hunters and kooks have guns right? Good law abideing crooks sure don't have them.
The second amendment, the right to bare arms hasn't got one darn thing to do with T-shirts. Its about GUNS. Our founding fathers, after finally overthrowing a hostile and opressive form of government belived so strongly that good law abiding citicens should have guns that they put it into the very structuring document of our nation.
Now, were some bad ideas tossed around at the Constitutional Convention? Sure there were... Ben Franklin thought the national bird should be the turkey for pete's sakes! However, the bad ideas got weeded out. (not to say that later generations of lawmakers haven't mucked the entire thing up since).
Every other constitutional right is... well, until the Patriot Act, was considered inviolate and sancrosect. Why is it that people can stand by and see the second one crapped on all the time?
Do I own a gun? No, I don't. However, if you try to take my RIGHT to have one... I'm not going to be happy about it, or take it lying down. I've thought many times about getting a gun, however, I sometimes have company over in the form of small children and people who have drank too much. Its enough of a hassle to keep my ornamental knives and swords out of reach. If I can ever find a nice secure gun cabnet, I might start a collection.
Does that put me at a disadvantage if someone breaks into my home? Yes it does. However, I hope that my combat training, quick thinking, and faith in the Lord will keep me and mine safe. I wouldn't have a problem trying to take a gun away from an intruder and useing it on them. I might not suceed, but I think I have a better chance than the average American. I most certainly would not look down on someone who did have a gun in their home for such a circumstance.

[Hamlet]

Of course the number of deaths by firearms is going to be lower in the Netherlands. They have only 16 million people living there for goodness sake. Even if you compare per 1,000 people or whatever, of course it will be lower when they lack the huge urban cities that we have over here. Any big city around the world is due to have it's share of crime.

Urbanization isn't the best explanation of differences in homicide rates as the figures below illustrates:

Homicides per 100.000 (average 1999-2001):

EU: 1.59
USA: 5.56
South Africa: 55.86

An alternative is to compare the homicide rates per 100.000 citizens in major urban cities. Thus eliminating the question of rural -vs- urban, and at the same time adjusting for the differences in size between 'the big urban cities'.

Homicides per 100.000 (average 1999-2001):

London (UK): 2.28
Vienna (Austria): 2.84
Brussels (Belgium): 2.87
Prague (Czech Rep.): 4.33
Copenhagen (Denmark): 1.81
Tallinn (Estonia): 9.40
Paris (France): 2.00
Berlin (Germany): 2.34
Athens (Greece): 0.34
Budapest (Hungary): 2.40
Dublin (Eire): 1.88
Rome (Italy): 1.24
Amsterdam (Netherlands): 3.13
Oslo (Norway): 1.70
Warsaw (Poland): 4.00
Lisbon (Portugal): 1.50
Moscow (Russia): 18.38
Madrid (Spain): 1.84
Stockholm (Sweden): 2.77
Ankara (Turkey): 2.55
Sydney (Australia): 1.63
Tokyo (Japan): 1.21
Dallas (USA): 19.29
New York (USA): 8.65
San Fransisco (USA): 8.10
Washington DC (USA): 42.87

Source: Home Office Statistical Bulletin 12/03 (London, UK)