US passes Health care reform Bill

[-Z-]

I have not read the bill.

But from what I understand it will be pretty hard to make the situation down there any worse in terms of health care, so if this doesn't make some improvements, Obama is Uber Fail.

I suspect we will see some improvements in the long run, Republicans have proposing no change, and combating these health care reforms all along, in the name of the people, while these very people are loseing their homes to medical bills.

Z

[Will]

**** Z you beat me to it. I was going to have some fun with the thread title too.

One of the forums I frequent is predicting civil war over this.

[-Z-]

I would love to see civil war.

But IMO that is impossible in the USA today.

perhaps 50 years ago, but not now.

a more likely event is an insurrection/revolution.

Z

[totte]

I would love to see civil war.

But IMO that is impossible in the USA today.

perhaps 50 years ago, but not now.

a more likely event is an insurrection/revolution.

Z

on a side note what is so civil about war ?

[pron]

I have not read the bill.

But from what I understand it will be pretty hard to make the situation down there any worse in terms of health care, so if this doesn't make some improvements, Obama is Uber Fail.

I suspect we will see some improvements in the long run, Republicans have proposing no change, and combating these health care reforms all along, in the name of the people, while these very people are loseing their homes to medical bills.

Z

Medical bills, at least in my state, can't be garnished from wages or sued over.

[Mr President]

I have not read the bill.

But from what I understand it will be pretty hard to make the situation down there any worse in terms of health care, so if this doesn't make some improvements, Obama is Uber Fail.

I suspect we will see some improvements in the long run, Republicans have proposing no change, and combating these health care reforms all along, in the name of the people, while these very people are loseing their homes to medical bills.

Z

Don't feel bad. 95% of American have no idea what this bill is really about or what it will or will not do. We only get short versions of the bill. You would think that our congressman would take the time to inform the people he represents about the goods and bads of the bill. But he is too busy tickling other guys at his 50th birthday party.

I am very concerned over this bill. From the small things i have read about it It is going to cost this country a fortune.. And that is a fortune we don't have.

Now I also don't see how we can be forced to take this insurance or pay a 25k fine. last i knew the congress shall make no law of this sort. Could be why many states are taking the govt to court over it.

My biggest issue with this bill is, when the hell did it become the Govt job to pay all of our bills for us? This is just one more way for those who don't want to work, get an easier life. There are those who do need assistance. But assistance isn't a life time of free stuff. In my neck of the woods they took away child sitting money to help parents pay for daycare while they worked. So here we have moms and dads out working to better themselves but are coming up a little short so they got some aid to help pay daycare and they take that away.. But yet, we have tons of people who don't work due to pure lazyness and now they will get free health care along with all the other food stamps and welfare money to spend as they wish. Cause there rent is paid for them too.

Bailouts for banks, more free crap so people can stay home and do nothing even longer.. I am sick to death of it. I am all for helping people out during hard times. Help them get on there feet. But after a year or so time is up. If I lost my job and couldn't find anything else in a short per of time then my *** would be flipping burgers at McDonald's if need be. Pride is pride, but money is money. Pride doesn't pay bills.. But i guess if I wanted to I could just lose my pride and live off everyone else.. NOT!

We have two wars going on. The Taliban is still growing. Our banks take billions from us then raise our rates and give huge bonuses to there own, Social Security will be broke soon, taxes are ridiculous, our country has a trade deficit about the size of Nancy Pelosi's mouth, jobs are scarce, people are hungry, welfare is running ramped, medicare fraud is out of control but yes, let's focus on giving people more free stuff instead of making them work a little for it. And i love how we all start paying for it now, but yet the program doesn't even start till 2013.. Perhaps this is Obama's secret way of raising taxes without raising taxes.

He thinks this health care bill saved his presidency, I personally think he just sunk it. I gave this man a fair shot. He has done nothing but give more free **** away.

Perhaps if we create more jobs, then people will earn money and could pay for health care themselves. Of course things did have to change with the Insurance companies but at least it wouldn't add a trillion dollars to our deficit.

The congress has something like a 12% approval rating.. I wonder why that is? And I wonder where this man who WE THE PEOPLE elected, feels he can just go off and make us pay for something WE have clearly stated we didn't want! I'm sorry his mother couldn't afford things when he was young. I'm sorry his grandmother couldn't afford things when she was young, but does that mean those who do work and try to earn a living and pay for things we want must now start paying for those who don't work?

Sorry for the rant but i'm just so sick of free loaders. There are those truly in need of help. And then there are those who are lazy and choose the path of least resistance cause they can. Maybe they are the smart ones and i'm the dumb one..

[Will]

Don't feel bad. 95% of American have no idea what this bill is really about or what it will or will not do. We only get short versions of the bill. You would think that our congressman would take the time to inform the people he represents about the goods and bads of the bill. But he is too busy tickling other guys at his 50th birthday party.

I am very concerned over this bill. From the small things i have read about it It is going to cost this country a fortune.. And that is a fortune we don't have.

Now I also don't see how we can be forced to take this insurance or pay a 25k fine. last i knew the congress shall make no law of this sort. Could be why many states are taking the govt to court over it.

My biggest issue with this bill is, when the hell did it become the Govt job to pay all of our bills for us? This is just one more way for those who don't want to work, get an easier life. There are those who do need assistance. But assistance isn't a life time of free stuff. In my neck of the woods they took away child sitting money to help parents pay for daycare while they worked. So here we have moms and dads out working to better themselves but are coming up a little short so they got some aid to help pay daycare and they take that away.. But yet, we have tons of people who don't work due to pure lazyness and now they will get free health care along with all the other food stamps and welfare money to spend as they wish. Cause there rent is paid for them too.

Bailouts for banks, more free crap so people can stay home and do nothing even longer.. I am sick to death of it. I am all for helping people out during hard times. Help them get on there feet. But after a year or so time is up. If I lost my job and couldn't find anything else in a short per of time then my *** would be flipping burgers at McDonald's if need be. Pride is pride, but money is money. Pride doesn't pay bills.. But i guess if I wanted to I could just lose my pride and live off everyone else.. NOT!

We have two wars going on. The Taliban is still growing. Our banks take billions from us then raise our rates and give huge bonuses to there own, Social Security will be broke soon, taxes are ridiculous, our country has a trade deficit about the size of Nancy Pelosi's mouth, jobs are scarce, people are hungry, welfare is running ramped, medicare fraud is out of control but yes, let's focus on giving people more free stuff instead of making them work a little for it. And i love how we all start paying for it now, but yet the program doesn't even start till 2013.. Perhaps this is Obama's secret way of raising taxes without raising taxes.

He thinks this health care bill saved his presidency, I personally think he just sunk it. I gave this man a fair shot. He has done nothing but give more free **** away.

Perhaps if we create more jobs, then people will earn money and could pay for health care themselves. Of course things did have to change with the Insurance companies but at least it wouldn't add a trillion dollars to our deficit.

The congress has something like a 12% approval rating.. I wonder why that is? And I wonder where this man who WE THE PEOPLE elected, feels he can just go off and make us pay for something WE have clearly stated we didn't want! I'm sorry his mother couldn't afford things when he was young. I'm sorry his grandmother couldn't afford things when she was young, but does that mean those who do work and try to earn a living and pay for things we want must now start paying for those who don't work?

Sorry for the rant but i'm just so sick of free loaders. There are those truly in need of help. And then there are those who are lazy and choose the path of least resistance cause they can. Maybe they are the smart ones and i'm the dumb one..

Pres what you say would make sense if there were jobs for everyone, but that isn't the case. You're right that some people don't want to work, but there are plenty of people out there who would love to work but can't get a job as the country stands (this applies to the UK as much as the US) I don't know what the figures are over there, but here we have something like 2.5 million unemployed and 500,000 vacancies. Even if you could fill them all tomorrow it still leaves two million unemployed.

For all their rhetoric about creating jobs, it suits the government (and their backers in big business) to have a large pool of unemployed for the simple fact that it weakens unions. No one will dare strike if they can be sacked and easily replaced by someone on the dole queue.

Under the US system (pre-bill) uninsured people if they become ill, would be for all intents and purposes living in the dark ages when it came to healthcare. Also, the bill closes a lot of loopholes when it comes to insurance practices (such as making them take people with pre-existing conditions) that otherwise would have been ignored.

You should hardly worry about free handouts to banks or the unemployed when the US gives free handouts to other states, most notably Israel to the tune of 3 billion dollars a year. And what does Israel give the US in return? Stirring up trouble with settlement building, giving Bin Laden all the excuses he needs to launch terror attacks. It's quite possible that he would carry on even if Israel was cut off, but even if he did, you would be cutting out a key plank of his propaganda by letting Israel sink. If the US supported Britain to the extent it has supported Israel, we would likely still have an Empire today. Of course, no US politician will dare to defy the Israeli lobby, and this is at the core of the problem. Until you do, you will never see a foreign policy that puts America first.

Ask yourself this: what would really happen if the US stopped fighting those wars? would the Taliban invade the US? Would Bin Laden secretly travel to Washington and attack the White House? The US could easily cut defence spending by at least half, and still be #1 in the world militarily. A large portion of what you already spend goes into the pockets of various corporations and never to the services themselves. It is these same corporations that drive the US into wars it doesn't need to fight, purely to boost their profits. No country in the world today poses a serious threat to the US barring nukes, and no one will use them.

There is one other thing which you have overlooked concerning the costs of healthcare. Improving coverage will both improve morale in the workplace and drastically cut the amount of time lost to illness/injury, resulting in a significant boost to productivity. Not everyone without coverage is unemployed.

[-Z-]

Pres what you say would make sense if there were jobs for everyone, but that isn't the case. You're right that some people don't want to work, but there are plenty of people out there who would love to work but can't get a job as the country stands (this applies to the UK as much as the US) I don't know what the figures are over there, but here we have something like 2.5 million unemployed and 500,000 vacancies. Even if you could fill them all tomorrow it still leaves two million unemployed.

For all their rhetoric about creating jobs, it suits the government (and their backers in big business) to have a large pool of unemployed for the simple fact that it weakens unions. No one will dare strike if they can be sacked and easily replaced by someone on the dole queue.

Under the US system (pre-bill) uninsured people if they become ill, would be for all intents and purposes living in the dark ages when it came to healthcare. Also, the bill closes a lot of loopholes when it comes to insurance practices (such as making them take people with pre-existing conditions) that otherwise would have been ignored.

You should hardly worry about free handouts to banks or the unemployed when the US gives free handouts to other states, most notably Israel to the tune of 3 billion dollars a year. And what does Israel give the US in return? Stirring up trouble with settlement building, giving Bin Laden all the excuses he needs to launch terror attacks. It's quite possible that he would carry on even if Israel was cut off, but even if he did, you would be cutting out a key plank of his propaganda by letting Israel sink. If the US supported Britain to the extent it has supported Israel, we would likely still have an Empire today. Of course, no US politician will dare to defy the Israeli lobby, and this is at the core of the problem. Until you do, you will never see a foreign policy that puts America first.

Ask yourself this: what would really happen if the US stopped fighting those wars? would the Taliban invade the US? Would Bin Laden secretly travel to Washington and attack the White House? The US could easily cut defence spending by at least half, and still be #1 in the world militarily. A large portion of what you already spend goes into the pockets of various corporations and never to the services themselves. It is these same corporations that drive the US into wars it doesn't need to fight, purely to boost their profits. No country in the world today poses a serious threat to the US barring nukes, and no one will use them.

There is one other thing which you have overlooked concerning the costs of healthcare. Improving coverage will both improve morale in the workplace and drastically cut the amount of time lost to illness/injury, resulting in a significant boost to productivity. Not everyone without coverage is unemployed.

This is the most amazing post I have ever read.

I'm glad another person here sees things as I do to some degree.

Z

[-Z-]

Don't feel bad. 95% of American have no idea what this bill is really about or what it will or will not do. We only get short versions of the bill. You would think that our congressman would take the time to inform the people he represents about the goods and bads of the bill. But he is too busy tickling other guys at his 50th birthday party.

I am very concerned over this bill. From the small things i have read about it It is going to cost this country a fortune.. And that is a fortune we don't have.

Now I also don't see how we can be forced to take this insurance or pay a 25k fine. last i knew the congress shall make no law of this sort. Could be why many states are taking the govt to court over it.

My biggest issue with this bill is, when the hell did it become the Govt job to pay all of our bills for us? This is just one more way for those who don't want to work, get an easier life. There are those who do need assistance. But assistance isn't a life time of free stuff. In my neck of the woods they took away child sitting money to help parents pay for daycare while they worked. So here we have moms and dads out working to better themselves but are coming up a little short so they got some aid to help pay daycare and they take that away.. But yet, we have tons of people who don't work due to pure lazyness and now they will get free health care along with all the other food stamps and welfare money to spend as they wish. Cause there rent is paid for them too.

Bailouts for banks, more free crap so people can stay home and do nothing even longer.. I am sick to death of it. I am all for helping people out during hard times. Help them get on there feet. But after a year or so time is up. If I lost my job and couldn't find anything else in a short per of time then my *** would be flipping burgers at McDonald's if need be. Pride is pride, but money is money. Pride doesn't pay bills.. But i guess if I wanted to I could just lose my pride and live off everyone else.. NOT!

We have two wars going on. The Taliban is still growing. Our banks take billions from us then raise our rates and give huge bonuses to there own, Social Security will be broke soon, taxes are ridiculous, our country has a trade deficit about the size of Nancy Pelosi's mouth, jobs are scarce, people are hungry, welfare is running ramped, medicare fraud is out of control but yes, let's focus on giving people more free stuff instead of making them work a little for it. And i love how we all start paying for it now, but yet the program doesn't even start till 2013.. Perhaps this is Obama's secret way of raising taxes without raising taxes.

He thinks this health care bill saved his presidency, I personally think he just sunk it. I gave this man a fair shot. He has done nothing but give more free **** away.

Perhaps if we create more jobs, then people will earn money and could pay for health care themselves. Of course things did have to change with the Insurance companies but at least it wouldn't add a trillion dollars to our deficit.

The congress has something like a 12% approval rating.. I wonder why that is? And I wonder where this man who WE THE PEOPLE elected, feels he can just go off and make us pay for something WE have clearly stated we didn't want! I'm sorry his mother couldn't afford things when he was young. I'm sorry his grandmother couldn't afford things when she was young, but does that mean those who do work and try to earn a living and pay for things we want must now start paying for those who don't work?

Sorry for the rant but i'm just so sick of free loaders. There are those truly in need of help. And then there are those who are lazy and choose the path of least resistance cause they can. Maybe they are the smart ones and i'm the dumb one..

Mr. P, you make some very Valid points here, and I remember you also took a stand when It came to bailing out the banks, (as did everyone I think)

Basically when America bailed out those banks, that was the lowest point I think US politics could get to, without admitting to straight up fascism.

After the bank bailouts it was basically anything goes.

Now, I agree this health bill is going to cost a fortune, just like the war and the bailouts did.

But frankly, If I was an American, I would have far less objections to this money spending, than spending money on war, or bailing out banks.

This Money is going to help people, not kill people, or make bankers rich, and condition institutions to continue greedy policy and behavior.

Even if 3/4 of this money is a TOTAL WASTE (which it will not be) the 1/4 left will have done far more good than the money spent on war and bailouts.

Its Health Care.

HEALTH CARE

CARE HEALTH

HEALTH CARE

CARE HEALTH.

these 2 words are not easily mixed up with bombs, fire, guns, and Jihad.


Careing for the Health of the people of your Nation should be a #1 priority for any civilized nation.

Look at the rest of the world, Canada, UK, Sweden, Finland, Spain, (Im not ever sure who else)

These countries have good universal type health care provided for all citizens.

Why is it that some people in America still want to live like its 1920?

People should have to work for the things in life they desire, fancy crap, gold, beautiful homes, a hot tub, cars, caviar, whatever it is that floats your boat.

Health care is something that is a basic Human need its something we all not only desire, but need no matter our religion, race, or subculture, health care is something everyone benefits from equally, and should be considered a basic human right this day and age.

What kind of civilization are we if not to be moving forward, and providing our people with better basic supplies like medicine over the decades?

Is rather sick if u ask me, that as civilization seemingly progresses, we are now charging money for water.

We should be going in the opposite direction.

America has been a terrible example for the rest of the world, and Its about time they stepped up to plate and took care of their own people.

This is peoples health we are talking about, I mean come on?

Good grief...

HEALTH!?

Z

Z

[Disorder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY