Elite'tism -vs- Noobs
I have been discussing this with Grim Digital quite a bit, and in doing so I can not help but be overwhelmingly reminded of when I first started playing this game years ago.
Let me start by saying that the first set I ever played was the most exhilirating, most fun set that I ever played. See I was a noob. I didn't come on the forums, I happend by the game site by clicking to it through one of those voting sites. I was looking for a good game to play as planetarion went totally pay to play, and planetarion kind of sucked as there was 1 huge alliance amongst all the planetarion "vets" called fury. And they basically made all the rules and enforced their will and if you werent LEET enough to join them the game was no fun.
So I went to wow. I signed up, I logged in used my turns and logged out. I logged back in the next day to find I was attacked..........and someone took some of my land. I was unaware of the rules and since I was peacefully expanding this meant war. So I attacked him back. A few standard attacks, a handful of AA's and quite a few AR's. That'll teach him I thought. The next day I logged back in and he had done the same to me.
I tallied the losses and built more troops and struck back, all the while thinking this game is awesome, and I'm gonna kill this guy before he could kill me. So he and I went back and forth most of the entire set beating the snot out of eachother over and over again, neither able to kill the other.
Those few weeks, when myself and this noob had the excitement of a personal war, inflicting massive damage on the other, then logging in to see how well we were struck back were the most exciting I've ever played.
Imagine that..... Two noobs beating the hell out of eachother = fun.
I still remember the state name....... "DUNE", if your playing now or remember that PM me.
I didn't and I imagine he didnt know any unwritten rules, or retal policies or any of that garbage. If he had or had been in a nation I would have been killed. And none of the "vets" stepped in to say hey these are the rules..... bla, bla, bla, bla, bla. Because it didnt affect them.
At the end of that set, I decided to check out the forums. The game was still young and small then, basically the exact same way it is now. Low member count, trying to grow. What I discovered was that there was an "original click" made up of Calvin and some others. Who I believe had been playing since literal day 1.
These original players had all kinds of "unwritten rules" and policies that if not followed they would impose thier will and force you into following, and there was really only one man standing against them. His name was Grendal Khan. In a nutshell he told them they could take there "elite vet" status and stick it in thier arse. He was gonna play whatever way he wanted too and didn't care what they thought, or what they called it, or how they felt about it.
And thats what GK was all about. Not conforming to what the "elite vets" decided was acceptable. Not conforming to how the "elite vets" thought the game should be played. Not conforming to the "gentlemans" rules or "accepted retal" policies the "elite vets" deemed appropriate.
Anyway, i got on the forums after my first set and started reading, about whatever he and the "elite vets" were arguing about at the time, and thought "oh great.......... this is planetarion all over again, a group of "elite vets" who dictate how the game is played."
And whats worse is there was alot of ridicule. Alot of talking down to GK myself and other noob players who actually showed interest and posted. Much like there is now. Telling people to not talk above themselves, making fun of them because they are only a 3 man nation. Just basic elite ego snobbishness.
So I sent GK a PM and joined VAL. And for many sets we argued with the "elite vets" about everything on the forum. I began to co-lead with him and one or two others and we began to grow the member count to a decent size. And we attempted to impose whatever crazy policy we came up with at teh time to contradict the "elite vets".
Going so far as someone just pointed out to make a policy against hitting us while we are online. And if you did we would AA you. We stated it, the elite vets tested it, we AA'd them, and they killed us. Before we grew we warred them and they destroyed us, prior to the online AA retal policy.
Basically there was more of them, at the time they had way more experience and try as we might they imposed thier will upon us. All that being said.
A large majority of what GK and I did would now be considered suicide. As that term is thrown about ever so loosely. AA your top state for hitting me online, I'm a suicider. We declare war on you with half as many members and only kill 2 states before we are wiped out, we are suiciders. Make up "OUR OWN OPINIONS, POLICIES AND RULES" and attempt to enforce them, which of course we can't because we are outnumbered by the elite vets 3 to 1, and we are suiciders.
If you think about what todays "standard" of suiciding is, the first few months I played myself, GK, and the entire nation of Valhalla was nothing but suiciders. Is that how all you elite vets remember VAL. Do you remember it as a suicide nation..................................?
No, you don't. You may remember it as a crazy, online AA retal policy toting nation. But you don't remember it as a suicide nation. When in fact, especially in the beginning we were outnumbered every set, outskilled every set and killed alot, but we did it anyway to prove a point. That we will play the way we want, make our own rules, and not conform to the "elite".
After many sets in VAL, I started SH, and ELV with xavior and BLed, got some top ten finishes, broke some AVG NW nation records, got suicided the **** out of and quit playing for a while. And when I say suicided I mean, Calvins buddy Chris, stockpiled a unit type and suicided my balanced state out of the top ten. Hell even Jameswheel hit me at the end of one set to knock me out of the top ten. But if I remember correctly he didnt stockpile, like a suicider, he just had more than me in one area and attacked me a bunch after I was out of turns. Can't remember if it was so he could move up and have my spot or if Calvin or Chris or someone asked him too. Doesn't matter.
After calling him on it and *****ing he gave me the startup strat he used the set he finished first and hadn't been LG'd a single time as a consolation prize. I believe he was playing in MASTA at the time.
All that being said. I have betrayed my roots, and it is obvious that this game NOW is the same thing it was THEN. Only there are some role reversals. Instead of GK knowing how to play and not conforming to what the "elite netters" deem appropriate, and attempting to recruit new players in an attempt to change the game and balance the power away from the "elite netters" and him teaching me how to play.
Its me, not conforming saying I"m going to hit infantry horders, and having all the egomaniacal, elite netters, calling into question my skill and ridiculing me while I try to teach Grim Digital and ::LD:: Grimreapr and some others how to play. And for a bit, I myself was stuck in "elite vet" mode. Telling Grim Digital you can't do that, I won't condone this, this is how you play the game, no thats unacceptable, no Grim thats not accepted by the community...........over and over again.
And he said to me................................
"look man. I'm a new player. And it seems to me that mostly everyone who is playing is an "elite vet", Your brother (LD GRIMREAPR) is a new player and cem is making fun of him on the forum telling him to not talk above himself. Like he's not even on the radar adn shouldn't be allowed to speak at an "elite Vet". ANd you keep telling me all these bull**** rules I have to follow that you and the rest of these elite vets have made up. And to be honest I'm pissed off about it. You's should be afraid of my inability to finish first. But your not, because you have all these stupid rules, and anything I can do already has a label that everyone of you elite vets hates. I'll just get ridiculed and called a suicider.
If cem or anton or anyone makes fun of me on the forums, because I'm new, or attacks me in game or does anything that I deem fighting words.... according to you and the rest of the vets there is nothign I can do about it but sit there all month long with an army I'm not allowed to use and take it.
What is a new player supposed to do? You tell me!!! All you vets can say and do whatever you want because you have big 75 player alliances and those not in the alliance still know the other nation leaders so if you run your mouth enough for me to want to attack you I can't beecause I'll be a suicider. Well isn't that ****ING convenient for you.
I'm only allowed to attack you in a declared war with the same amount of members or I'm a suicider. So you tell me what retaliatory options I have for making someone pay without being ridiculed and called a suicider other than playing for the next year or however long it takes to make friends with enough people who are like minded to not be called a suicider. All the while during that year I can't do anything or I get ridiculed. It's stupid. It makes me not want to play the game.
If I wasn't in GRIM and you talked enough **** that I wanted to hit you and make your state suffer why can't I. I don't have a problem with GRIM I have a problem with you. And I can't kill you singlehandedly any more than you could kill me single handedly. But because I can't kill your whole nation by myself I'm a suicider because I hit the one man in the nation I wanted to hit. If you weren't all a little "click of elite vets" you would all be in the same boat. There wouldn't be super alliances, with other nations allied to the super alliance.
I mean seriously, DAK, USA, EEK and KIHT are all in an alliance. They in turn themselves have alliances with LOR, TNG, WLF, FB and all the other nations. So what does that leave. That leaves any new player that joins and doesn't agree standing alone against every other "elite vet" player in teh game. Which is basically everyone.
I understand your opposition to suiciding on principle, by picking a target at random or stockpiling whereever you are weakest adn hitting a top state for no reason other than to ruin there set. And I can understand why you would be mad about that. But how can you be mad about a single player who has a legitimate beef doing the only thing he can to another state which is attack by himself.
Like it or not but that "version" of suicide brings balance to the game. And that is why Viali and those hate it so much. Because like I said being able to do that you shoudl fear my inability to finish first, instead they all run infantry states fearing no one. Because most of the new players like me are recruited by vets like you who are groomed on all the "elite vet" rules and either forced to follow them or ridiculed for not following them. But I'm telling you that the ability for a new player to do that brings balance to the game and takes some power away from you and the other vets to just do whatever you want."""""""""""""
He went on to say quite a bit more but by that point I wasn't listening anymore, I had already heard enough overwhelmingly good points to remember and think about nothing but else except for when I started Playing. I couldn't take my mind off it. We started playing COD 4 and still I couldn't stop thinking about when I first started playing and the striking similiarities to then and now.
I will never condone, stockpiling units to hit someone for no other reason than to knock them out of the top ten. That to me is suicide. And counterproductive to the game. Your just ruining a set for the sake of ruining a set.
However next set regardless of the numbers I have in my nation, If i have beef with you I'm gonna hit you. I'm gonna set my own policies, rules and ways for myself and my nation to play. I am going back to my roots. If I have beef with you I'm gonna hit you. I don't care if your nation is bigger, or your alliance is stronger, or you can inflict more damage on my nation than mine can inflict on yours. You can call it what you want. I don't care. I will no longer conform to the unwritten rules created to help the "elite vets" stay elite and at the top of the lists without fear.
That being said, this is not an infantry whoring thread so please don't turn it into one. This is not a suicide thread so please don't turn it into one. If you want to flame what I have said, please have the intelligence and courtesy of reading what I've written and responding intelligently to it, instead of just reading the last paragraph and going off on a tangent.
My final question is this......... What is a new nation, new player supposed to do to a retaliate against a vet state, or vet nation that they have beef with that doesn't violate what the "vets" have already determined "fair play". Honestly......... thoughts anyone?
Originally Posted by Mr President
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In all the garbage that goes on people forget this is a game, and besides "no cheating" all the "rules" are just an agreement between players on what's acceptable, well maybe it's time to start playing by no rules at all 
I too remember the excitement of my first state, not knowing what happened on the forums or how to run a strategy, maybe it's time to dump all the scheming and deal making and turn NW into a contest of survival of the fittest. 
