Oil - is it time to get out?

[Will]

The oil companies should be nationalised and the prices kept low via government subsidies.

[Vivid]

As a consumer I personally think gas prices are outrageous.
I work 4 10 hour days a week and do very little other travel other than picking up my boys from daycare.
It cost me anywhere from 50$ to 60$ a week in gas just to go basically back and forth to work.They need to do something about gas prices if i could walk to work i would but thats not an option.

Invest in oil futures you'll make more money in oil than what what you could ever spend paying for gas.

[Vivid]

The oil companies should be nationalised and the prices kept low via government subsidies.

Thats wouldn't work..

How are we suppose to make money that way?

Oil would be something like $70-$80 a barrel and $2.00 per gallon US. The consumers would simply waste it all. You need investors controlling the price in order to keep supply and demand in check.

We can't leave supply and demand to the average consumer. The price is where its suppose to be unregulated in the free market.

Besides investment firms need that money to help pay for things like pensions.

Investors need that money and if the average citizen has to pay a couple more gallons per gallon at the pump big deal.. they're not that smart and their money is better in the hands of investors.

If average people are so worried about gas prices than they should of done what the smart investors have done and get the money back through oil
futures.

Having the government control oil is just bad for business..

[Xavior]

@ Grim:

Yeah, we have too much land here in NA, everything is too far apart, so we have to depend on cars

If only we could be like Tokyo, fitting 30m people on a tiny island.

[k959]

hell im spending close to $100 a week on gas just so i can do my job and serve hungry people with pizza. this is killing my money that i make in tips and the money pizza hut pays me to make a trip dosnt cover it and then u got the oil changes every 3k miles and in my case adding 1 qt a week just so i have oil to make it to my next change. this is killing me last year when i worked for pizza hut i could go a 20 work week and only spend about $35-$50 and now im only working a 24 hour work week and it adds up to $100 a week

[Rassputtin]

Well, I'm not an investor but these are my thoughts regarding the issue.

The basic problem here is money. It puts everyone on the opposite side of the fence from everyone else. Let's start with the consumer.

In the US the average commute to work is around 15 miles. Despite the standards set forth a bit ago regarding MPG, there are still ALOT of old cars on the road so I would venture to say that the average MPG is 15.
Therefore on average a person uses two gallons of gasoline a day to get to work.

Which for the median income mark (46,000/annual) for americans is not so bad. However there are alot of individuals who do not make 46k/year. So for those who are doing well, say middle/upper middle class and above the price of gas in inconsequential. But for those with lower income it can be devestating. Take a cat who make minimum wage or 7.25 and hour. At current gas prices, after taxes he is getting around 5.50 an hour in his pocket. Which means he is working nearly 2 hours of everywork day to pay for the ability to get there and work. Those consumers suffer from the prices, while the middle & upper class citizens who have well off jobs clear enough annually for it to not matter. Add to that the fact that they also have enough to invest in oil to make even more money and you have middle & upper class citizens who are investing in oil futures and loving the increase in price eating it up whilst at teh same time calling the struggling citizens stupid for not investing in something they can't afford to invest in, and with the prices going higher it doesn't make it any easier for "stupid" people to be able to afford to invest.

So there you have the consumers -vs- the investors IMHO.

Next we get to take a look at the oil companies. Companies that since 2002 have enjoyed record profits year after year. From 2002 to 2005, the price of crude tripled. In those 3 years the top ten public companies sold over 1.5 trillion dollars worth of crude and pocketed a profit of over 125 billion dollars. All the while they and thier investors enjoyed an 88% stock gain. And that was from 02 to 05.

Anyone here have any idea what has happened to the price since 05? Well.... suffice it to say the price of a gallon of gas was around say.... 2.10 a gallon, and people were *****ing then.....! I hear about oil companies saying cost of production is going up which is driving the price up. I hear investors saying supply and demand drive the price up.

But there is no supply problem. There is no shortage of oil to be had. THe problem is the greed, and this is why. Oil prices continue to rise & rise & rise. Everyone assumes its a shortage and says companies/countries/fields need to drill/pump/produce more. But the price is not rising due to cost. Most of thsoe fields were drilled long ago. If you pay for and drill a field when the cost is at 40/barrell, and 3 years later the well is still pumping but now its 130/barrell. Did your cost go up? No only your profit did. Is the supply shorter. No the oil is still flowing.

Now supply does increase over time but so does the number of wells. The problem is, greedy bastards will not increase production, or pump faster, or drill a new hole in an already profitbale field to get more oil out quicker if they know that the longer they wait to sell it the more it will make them.

Why empty this oil pocket at 130/barrel when if i wait 2 years i can empty it at 200/barrell and isntead of making 125 billion in profit i could make 400billion.

Lastly take into account the number of patents that oil companies have bought in regards to designs to lessen dependency on oil and you ahve your final kick in the balls for the simple greed theory.

The technology exists right now to make oil a second rate commodity.




"The huge profits are enormous because the public is drastically overpaying what it costs to produce," said Joan Claybrook, president of the consumer advocacy group Public Citizen.

Because there are 42 gallons / barrel, when the price of oil goes up by $10, say from $55 to $65, the price of gas should go up by $10/42 = 24¢ (popNote). It’s actually gone up faster than this, so we know oil companies are exercising some market power and passing through a “markup,” not just their actual costs.

And by markup, we're talking about 125 billion dollars in profit. Is that making a living or raping consumers.

IDK. I'm sick of typing about it.

[::LD::GrimReapr]

Well spoken im glad i didnt have to look up that info and type it.

[-Chris-]

Now that we've made a ton of money off of investing in oil futures’ is the free ride almost over?

We have been advised a few years back to put money in oil futures contracts and so far we have made a killing. I'm hearing from some people that we can push the price up even higher over the course of the next couple years. I have also heard that our gravy train will derail soon and when it does the price will drop like a rock thus hindering our investments.

There is alot of talk in US congress regarding pressing regulations on honest investors like ourselves making it more difficult to make a honest buck. My advisor from Stanley Morgan & Company tells me that this will take some time and we can ride oil contracts to $200 a barrel easy and that is when gas approaches $5 per gallon US. When this happens we are suppose to revaluate the political climate and go from there. That the market is cornered and minus government interference rising prices are a lock.

I'm having my doubts about riding until $5 per gallon gas US. The average citizen in the United States is *****ing about the price now at $130 per barrel. This leads to their congress people interfering with the free market in attempt to ruin the free market and leave supple and demand unchecked. They want to screw over small investors like myself by raising the minimum we have to put down by something crazy like 50%. Some members of congress are even going as far as suggesting the absurd an oil commodity trading ban. If that happens oil will probably drop to $90 barrel/$2.50 - $3.00 per gallon US almost overnight. All of us investors will stand to lose alot. Ridiculous, how are we suppose to make money and keep supply and demand in check like that?

I'm told that financial companies are working with the US congress through lobbyist and a deal will be sent up to postpone this speculation witch hunt for atleast a couple more years. I certainly hope so.

Do you guys recommend staying on with the hope for $200+ barrels? I don't want to sound greedy but why settle for 400% when I can make 500%,

I almost wish Iran would get invaded by Israel.. we would make a small fortune overnight through market concerns. Ok, thats evil and I was just joking..

Anyway what do you guys think?

You honestly ****ing disgust me.

[Vivid]

Well, I'm not an investor but these are my thoughts regarding the issue.

The basic problem here is money. It puts everyone on the opposite side of the fence from everyone else. Let's start with the consumer.

The problem is in supply and demand. You want gas so you buy it. I want oil futures so I buy them. Therefore there is demand and prices reflect said demand.

In the US the average commute to work is around 15 miles. Despite the standards set forth a bit ago regarding MPG, there are still ALOT of old cars on the road so I would venture to say that the average MPG is 15.
Therefore on average a person uses two gallons of gasoline a day to get to work.

Which for the median income mark (46,000/annual) for americans is not so bad. However there are alot of individuals who do not make 46k/year. So for those who are doing well, say middle/upper middle class and above the price of gas in inconsequential. But for those with lower income it can be devestating. Take a cat who make minimum wage or 7.25 and hour. At current gas prices, after taxes he is getting around 5.50 an hour in his pocket. Which means he is working nearly 2 hours of everywork day to pay for the ability to get there and work. Those consumers suffer from the prices, while the middle & upper class citizens who have well off jobs clear enough annually for it to not matter. Add to that the fact that they also have enough to invest in oil to make even more money and you have middle & upper class citizens who are investing in oil futures and loving the increase in price eating it up whilst at teh same time calling the struggling citizens stupid for not investing in something they can't afford to invest in, and with the prices going higher it doesn't make it any easier for "stupid" people to be able to afford to invest.

If consumers are worried about the price of oil they should buy less.. this will drop demand and lower the price.

So there you have the consumers -vs- the investors IMHO.

Next we get to take a look at the oil companies. Companies that since 2002 have enjoyed record profits year after year. From 2002 to 2005, the price of crude tripled. In those 3 years the top ten public companies sold over 1.5 trillion dollars worth of crude and pocketed a profit of over 125 billion dollars. All the while they and thier investors enjoyed an 88% stock gain. And that was from 02 to 05.

Anyone here have any idea what has happened to the price since 05? Well.... suffice it to say the price of a gallon of gas was around say.... 2.10 a gallon, and people were *****ing then.....! I hear about oil companies saying cost of production is going up which is driving the price up. I hear investors saying supply and demand drive the price up.

Investors are not allowed to make money selling a product? Nobody is forcing anybody to buy it. Supply and demand.

But there is no supply problem. There is no shortage of oil to be had. THe problem is the greed, and this is why. Oil prices continue to rise & rise & rise. Everyone assumes its a shortage and says companies/countries/fields need to drill/pump/produce more. But the price is not rising due to cost. Most of thsoe fields were drilled long ago. If you pay for and drill a field when the cost is at 40/barrell, and 3 years later the well is still pumping but now its 130/barrell. Did your cost go up? No only your profit did. Is the supply shorter. No the oil is still flowing.

Its not that simple..

There are genuine market concerns that play a role in speculation of the price. It is the job of the speculators to help adjust the cost of oil to reflect these concerns. This is what we get paid for risking our cash because our position reflects market conditions of raising gas prices.

Now supply does increase over time but so does the number of wells. The problem is, greedy bastards will not increase production, or pump faster, or drill a new hole in an already profitbale field to get more oil out quicker if they know that the longer they wait to sell it the more it will make them.

Why empty this oil pocket at 130/barrel when if i wait 2 years i can empty it at 200/barrell and isntead of making 125 billion in profit i could make 400billion.

Lastly take into account the number of patents that oil companies have bought in regards to designs to lessen dependency on oil and you ahve your final kick in the balls for the simple greed theory.

The technology exists right now to make oil a second rate commodity.

Its not the speculators fault if oil companies are not drilling fast enough. We just control the speculative premium to reflect the risk factors.

"The huge profits are enormous because the public is drastically overpaying what it costs to produce," said Joan Claybrook, president of the consumer advocacy group Public Citizen.

Because there are 42 gallons / barrel, when the price of oil goes up by $10, say from $55 to $65, the price of gas should go up by $10/42 = 24¢ (popNote). It’s actually gone up faster than this, so we know oil companies are exercising some market power and passing through a “markup,” not just their actual costs.

And by markup, we're talking about 125 billion dollars in profit. Is that making a living or raping consumers.

IDK. I'm sick of typing about it.

Both the Nymex CEO James Newsome and ICE Chairman Sir Robert Reid assure its an issue of supply and demand.

[Vivid]

You honestly ****ing disgust me.

Excuse me?

Do you have a problem with supply and demand or the free market?

Your vague post indicates that your position is probably based on ignorance anyway.. so its not your fault.