This is getting old

[MAGGIO]

Well some times all you can do is suicide

ie: " wow that guy in first is 100m away from everyone else"

" hey i have 50m in bank and already 20m ships on hand, i'll just buy ships and AA the crap out of him" or whatever suiciders do

I think that is perfectly acceptable way to try and win, which is achieved by having the highest networth, and sometimes you can only deal w/ peeps in the top ten by suiciding, no its not right, and its malicious, but hey, they're beat

I think it is a perfectly acceptable way to try to win as well. Unfortunately the people who are doing it are not trying to win.

[Guy77]

I think it is a perfectly acceptable way to try to win as well. Unfortunately the people who are doing it are not trying to win.

That is true, but if we ban suiciding, are we banning all forms of it? or just the malicious forms? and what can we define as malicious or just as trying to beat them out in net?

Any Opinions?

[jasonlfunk]

Jfunk, you can be banned for any reason anytime regardless of the rules, but I dont think that is the message the owner of the game wants to send out to its players.

A ban ought to be a result of rule breaking - not the arbitrary whim of the admins. If you don't like something in the game, change the rules. You cannot ban, or blame even, someone for doing something in the game that is perfectly legal according to the rules - just because it violates some unwritten arbitrary mood that the admins expect the players to understand.

If it isn't against the rules - no punishment should be given from outside the game.

[Max Logan]

DBoz got killed by a person who`s been caught cheating before and just makes new account under diff IPs


Now this is why cheating should be against the rules

Who says all the other suiciders are not multies of someone?

[jasonlfunk]

DBoz got killed by a person who`s been caught cheating before and just makes new account under diff IPs


Now this is why cheating should be against the rules

Who says all the other suiciders are not multies of someone?

Then they should be banned for having multies, not for suiciding, because having multies is against the rules.

[SmarT]

so what if one person decideds that they want to hold someone accoutable for their actions or lack there of? So because this person does not want to bring down a nation or he/she decideds that he wants to do this himself? He would be baned. i believe banning someone for any reason other then cheating isnt right. ive never been suicided, but if someone chooses that tactic, its his choice.

[Rassputtin]

Well there is a few options that we could do that would help it.

-Increase the size of the target you can hit.

-make all attacks accept SA only valid when war has been declared.. set it back to 4 man nations in order to be able to war. And then set a 2hr time before strikes can begin after you declare

-I can reinstate the suicided state.

-Make all lethal spy attacks only valid when war is declared.

-People can just stop doing it.

The definition of suiciding is pretty easy. It's simply to destroy someones state with no purpose other then fun. If a smaller nation wages a silent war on a larger nation, i don't see that as suiciding. But i think war should have to be declared in order to do it.

Yes suiciding is an aspect of the game, but it's not one that many are fond of. So that is why i keep on picking everyones brains trying to come up with a way to make it harder or get it to stop.

I'm all for wars. But when they game turns into nothing but a bunch of people running around destroying states for no reason, that isn't right.

The community will never simply stop doing it themselves. Reinstating states and banning is not the right route to take. It is time consuming, and cumbersome.

As I've stated many times before manipulation of the mechanics is the only way to correctly do it.

So let me start with this.

If you haven't ever been killed or hobbled out of a top state for a few sets in a row, for no reason or fault by you or your nation. Then I don't really respect your opinion on the subject.

That being said let me reiterate that the mechanics have to be modified in order to prevent the ability to suicide, whilst still allowing the capability to war.

Players will not come to thier senses. This will not fix itself. One of the reasons that mechanics manipulations have to date not been successful or adequate to accomplish the goals we have is because they are simply...... to simple. As I have pointed out in this thread.

http://www.forums.nation-wars.com/showthread.php?t=2535

The problem is the simplicity of the system allows for only simple solutions to complex problems. The problem with that is that since the solutions are simple and comparative to carpet bombing, they often affect areas negatively where they were not intended to do so. Because the lack of depth in the mechanics causes for lack of depth in solutions.

Making a War Declaration take time to go into effect ruins the element of surprise. Especially if its any length of time that will matter. Which adversley affects those who want war.

Making war attacks and ops only usable under war declaration makes it cumbersome to do simple pre-arranged retals.

You get the point. Every simple fix or combo of simple fixes, simply f's something else up or is only barely effective in the first place.

I will state once again. That the best way to eliminate suiciding under the current attack and game mechanics is to add a boolean variable to each state that they must select upon state creation on whether or not they are hostile or not. Which in turn dictates whether or not war attacks are enabled.

Those who click hostile can war attach and suicide each other to thier hearts content. Those who do not are impervious to it. Is it the most ideal solution. No.

The ideal solution would be a major mechanic overhaul like the one stated in the above thread. The boolean suggestions is the..... best alternative.

this game used to be about tradition and honor.

1. The game is based on a score. If you get out net or out war someone to get the better score that was considered honorable and fair play.
2. It used to be that if you warred someone that the next set you would start off with a clean slate.

HONOR & DIGNATY

Jfunk, you can be banned for any reason anytime regardless of the rules, but I dont think that is the message the owner of the game wants to send out to its players.

Chris. that is not a terrible idea, but i dont think it would solve the problem of suiciders because on day 8 there would be alot of upset players.

Alot of poeple have lost the aspects of what the game is about, and what the goals are of the game. Its about having the best team, and winning the game. Suddenly alot of people realize they cannot compete to win so they just have fun in their own way at the expense of players who can complete.

When a nation was small and couldnt get first, what they would do is compete to see who could get the best avg nw. The best avg nw was considered more important the the total nw for many. It said even though you didnt have a 30-50 man nation, you had a tight group of very good players.

these days are gone. I dont mean to piont fingers and I wont, but it seemed to slip away when the whole Viet thing went down for 6 months in 04-05.

We have lost our way. Were is the honor and glory in simply warring someone because you can, or because you want to even if they dont.

We use to war people on priniples, and use real tactics. hold true to our retal policies, and go for the glory. That is all just a big fat joke now.

I think one thing we can do is actually right up something that states what the purpose of the game is, and what type of traditions we have, and let people know up front what the intension of the game is before they start playing. And if they are allready plaeyrs set them straight and ask them to comply or leave on their own.

No one considers what really is going on when they hit that little button. how it will effect that player, or the community. All i think pres is asking that is please consider others, and that we all play this game together, and we all must work together for it to work out.

BTW the old school top ten lists of all time sum up what the game is all about. There was never a top ten for suiciders was there.

I like what your saying here Maggio, but I don't think the game will ever return to that. I remember alot of wars and conflicts arising over retal policies, or nation farming or things that happened THAT SET, IN GAME.

9 times out of 10 it was a clean slate every set. Bygons be bygons. Hell I remember bitterly warring with a nation one set and the next set the two of us would merge to bitterly war someone else. Talking about letting the grudge go............ Could you see that happening today........?

The top netting nation wasn't warred or suicided on every set. If they won a few in a row or reeked of domination they were hit. Hence Domination leads to war. But every time a nation rose to the top they weren't gunned down to have the second best nation win every time.

Its a different game today. The community is different, the principles are different, how the game is played is different, and the total general mindset of the players and people involved are different.

We used to have several tags that endured. Trained new players who set out and set up even more stable tags. We used to have alliances that meant something. NAP"s that meant something. FA's that meant something.

We used to have balanced states that netted but stayed prepared for war because it was always an action or failed FA away.

Now we have new tags every set, infantry hording, alliance breaking, suiciding states every set, and never, a clean slate.

[MAGGIO]

How about we ban the land droppers
How about we ban anyone who takes more then 2k of land from you on a single hit
How about we ban all 10+ man nations
How about we ban anyone who SA's someone and knocks them out of the top 10
How about we ban all inactives
How about we ban all players that only mass jets
How about we ban all players who complain about anything

I for one have been on the recieving and the giving side of suicides many times in WOW, and I never quite understood why everyone always complained about them.

I have been knocked out of the top 10 before someone taking a 4k land grab off me, actually knocked me down from 7 to about 30. Is that almost not the same as a suicide?

Really I think this is ridiculous..

I know your a really smart guy in RL.

May I recommend that instead of fighting the suggestions please come up with one that may make everyone happy, and have a bit more fun.

Please tell us what you really think is the problem and what a possible solution is. Look from the outside in. forget about your playing style forget about what you like forget about your nation and how everyone takes a crap on it. Just tell us what you think is the real problems here and what you think would make most of us happy again.

[SmarT]

I know your a really smart guy in RL.

May I recommend that instead of fighting the suggestions please come up with one that may make everyone happy, and have a bit more fun.

Please tell us what you really think is the problem and what a possible solution is. Look from the outside in. forget about your playing style forget about what you like forget about your nation and how everyone takes a crap on it. Just tell us what you think is the real problems here and what you think would make most of us happy again.

i dont really agree with Mhaphew on much, but i think the point he was making is that there is nothing you can do that is fair and where does it start and stop? And you will NEVER make everyone happy.

[jasonlfunk]

Smart is right. It is inherint to the game itself that suciding is possible. You cannot make it illegal without destroying the game itself. Much like the other things that he mentioned - they are enforced in game by nations, not outside of the game by admins. If you triple tap a state in a nation - the nation is probably going to kick your butt. We have some rules enforced by admins to make the ground as level as possible (no bots, no multies, etc) - but other than that - anything is fair game, though there will probably be in game consequences.

It's a lot like RL - if you do something stupid, you'll be hated and killed in RL but you won't be banned.

In NW - if you do something stupid, you'll be hated and killed in NW but you won't be banned.