**Important Statement**

[Mr President]

Nice post Ali. I truly hope you mean every word of it and that you follow through with it.

One thing i would like to make very clear is, this game will go on no matter what. Even if that means i have to rebuild it from the ground back up, it will go on. It's great having all the old players back, but i think we have as many of them back as we are going to get. So this is why i have been doing things to go out and get more members. Won't happen overnight, but we will gain new ones.

I was doing some thinking the other day and was trying to figure out where this game really changed. And i think one main thing that has changed is, we all take things pretty personal now. When Svenne ran things in the early days, there were friends, but for the most part people warred to get what they wanted and then didn't ever feel like they betrayed someone. Right now, if USA wars someone, chances are pretty good we have ticked off friends and they take it personal. Our community is tight and strong, but with that it's also a double edged sword. Cause now anytime something happens we take it personally and we don't look at it as "eh it's just a game".

Another area is the politics of this game. Before there use to be alliances, but that's about it. Nations didn't use diplomacy 1/4 as much as they do now. With diplomacy comes deals and agreements and bonds and ties and all of this together can only spell disaster at some point. And i think we are at that point. And i feel i have to take a lot of that blame......

When i first came to WoW, there was little diplomacy and i was a huge driving force to making it happen. And now, thats all this game is about.. DIPLOMACY!

It is a great aspect of the game that i love the most, but i also think to much of it hurts the game too. People want to get on and have fun and most of the time warring is what is fun. I mean really, who doesn't love doing a FS and taking out 3/4 of the enemies nation

So between the tight friendships and forced diplomacy, it always feels like our hands are tied, which in return makes the game not as fun..

let me get back on topic, LoR has always been known for shady tactics. People say LoR drives members away. I don't think it's all LoR. We all have made some bad deals and made mistakes. So if LoR wants to stand up and help be a driving force for change in the game, then i'm all ears and i look forward to it.

In my honest opinion, i think we should take the rest of this set and just have a huge blowout. Anyone who has grudges, get your revenge this set and then next set we all just start fresh. Asking ppl to just drop it all without being able to get some revenge will never work. So that is why i think we dedicate this set and call it a "grudge" set and get it all off our chests..

Our game is young. We are only 5 months old. Nobody can say this game is going to die. It's way to early for that. Regular members will fade away and new ones will come in. It's how it works. And we will have hundreds of players playing this game.. Mark my words.. May not be today, may not be tomorrow but it will happen!

[L P]

If everyone is on the same side how can we be enemies?

[::LD::GrimReapr]

OK, Here is my opinion **** you and the horse you rode in on!!!!
Nah im just kidding i have no problem with anyone in LOR with the exception of having known cheaters in the nation. IMO cheating takes the fun out of the game. I am a newbie when it comes to NW i wasnt around for WOW and this is only my 4th set and as far as the happenings and dealings of what happened and what went on i only know what affected me and that was last set.I have no personal grudge against anyone in this game except Foxhound i would like to return the favor of killing you but it wont happen cause im not that kind of person.I agree with your post and hope you do work everything out within LOR i have been trying to recruit new members into this game as my brother Rass got me hooked im sure my wife will be divorcing me soon thanks bro.If i can do anything to help you guys out i will be more than happy to.
Good luck and lets get this game a Rollin Rollin Rollin.

[z75]

Ali you have my support in anything you wanna do for good, turn bad and i'll r@pe you.

I think its worth giving him the chance, he wrote a very very large post he took my time reading it, and he convinced me. There's nothing we can lose.


Support from 6th Inferno.

[kenshin44]

Nice post Ali. I truly hope you mean every word of it and that you follow through with it.

One thing i would like to make very clear is, this game will go on no matter what. Even if that means i have to rebuild it from the ground back up, it will go on. It's great having all the old players back, but i think we have as many of them back as we are going to get. So this is why i have been doing things to go out and get more members. Won't happen overnight, but we will gain new ones.

I was doing some thinking the other day and was trying to figure out where this game really changed. And i think one main thing that has changed is, we all take things pretty personal now. When Svenne ran things in the early days, there were friends, but for the most part people warred to get what they wanted and then didn't ever feel like they betrayed someone. Right now, if USA wars someone, chances are pretty good we have ticked off friends and they take it personal. Our community is tight and strong, but with that it's also a double edged sword. Cause now anytime something happens we take it personally and we don't look at it as "eh it's just a game".

Another area is the politics of this game. Before there use to be alliances, but that's about it. Nations didn't use diplomacy 1/4 as much as they do now. With diplomacy comes deals and agreements and bonds and ties and all of this together can only spell disaster at some point. And i think we are at that point. And i feel i have to take a lot of that blame......

When i first came to WoW, there was little diplomacy and i was a huge driving force to making it happen. And now, thats all this game is about.. DIPLOMACY!

It is a great aspect of the game that i love the most, but i also think to much of it hurts the game too. People want to get on and have fun and most of the time warring is what is fun. I mean really, who doesn't love doing a FS and taking out 3/4 of the enemies nation

So between the tight friendships and forced diplomacy, it always feels like our hands are tied, which in return makes the game not as fun..

let me get back on topic, LoR has always been known for shady tactics. People say LoR drives members away. I don't think it's all LoR. We all have made some bad deals and made mistakes. So if LoR wants to stand up and help be a driving force for change in the game, then i'm all ears and i look forward to it.

In my honest opinion, i think we should take the rest of this set and just have a huge blowout. Anyone who has grudges, get your revenge this set and then next set we all just start fresh. Asking ppl to just drop it all without being able to get some revenge will never work. So that is why i think we dedicate this set and call it a "grudge" set and get it all off our chests..

Our game is young. We are only 5 months old. Nobody can say this game is going to die. It's way to early for that. Regular members will fade away and new ones will come in. It's how it works. And we will have hundreds of players playing this game.. Mark my words.. May not be today, may not be tomorrow but it will happen!

Also yeah i am fine i understand some grudges are hard to drop just like that if this set is to be grudge war set or anything like that let it be the last then lets start building back up.

Also About me cheating i have cheated and i will be taking a step lower in the leadership roll and will have Kanman do as much as he can/wants but he doesn't like to deal to often in FA but i still run everything by him as to what is to be done and not and to make sure he is good with it.

This post here was done by me cause i felt i had to say something as a good friend of mine Devil left and it made me ponder that nothing new is happening in this game.

Also its not the matter of fact of being everyone one side its a matter of ending these long multiple sets of war and driving players away so we can bring in some players once we get good count of members nations stabilized then we can begin to have a platform on which wars can happen and they can end with no grudge and member count not affected.

As it is now wars just become world wars as we are so tight like prez said and that just hurts the game as we are at each others throats rather than concentrating on growing the community.

I want to see how it use to be. Average nation size was 30-35 and small nations were considered 15-20... large nations 50-60... We use to have all those elements which made this game diverse. Now its just 15-20 being considered Large and everything below that small their is no Middle class room and that brings the clustering of alliances to get "gang bangs" and we keep the cycle alive through warring because we got hit then you got hit and stuff like that, its become a routine and you know what we have been a huge reason for that. We started the cycle and it continues to go around in a circle of hatred, members of a nation that participated in that war hold grudges and the leaders have to react to it cause of the constraints on members we hold.

We need to come to the conclusion as a whole and im willing to pay for my mishaps as a leader, and my shadiness. But Mark my words nothing i have done was meant to hurt the community but it's in my eyes now that somethings we did actually did hurt or at least did not promote growth of the game.

AGAIN sorry for the long post i think i am becoming prez, just not as cool

[Tnova]

Sorry but when i stated your name it wasn't to include it as a negative manner it was just cause i felt that feeling of void between you and me and def. it is justified.

Also the clean slate can't be achieved as words are words. But a commitment by both us and the community need to be stabilized, don't trust us but don't start grudges and wars with us either, lets try to take it neutrally in the same direction to build the member count. My eyes were more opened by Devil and thats why i stressed this so much that i want change i want to play with not 160 members i want to play with 700 members i want 50-60 member nations i want us to be back in the age where you didn't have to just war one nation or one side, diversity where netting and warring coexist and game strides.

And tnova members like you and dogma and other veterans can be the leaders in this reconstruction people look up to you, i just want more members and i want overall success and the constant wars aren't achieving that.

Thanks for the clarification. But know this, i have distance with 99% of NW. I talk to about as many people as i have fingers on one hand on a weekly basis. You tend to think our distance is due to things that have happened, when the truth is if the wrongings never happened, the situation would be the same as it is right now.

I have no grudge with LoR. The past wrong was followed by a very entertaining retal set for me. So i considered it even at that point. I have no problems with 95% of the players in LoR. They are loyal, dedicated people and i have a high admiration of them. Unfortunately a few have made a bad impression. And i will extend the same courtesy i would give anyone else in rebuilding trust. But don't expect love notes or common conversations from me as a validation. After all people who have done absolutely nothing wrong to me get the same treatment.

[kingmyth]

Also yeah i am fine i understand some grudges are hard to drop just like that if this set is to be grudge war set or anything like that let it be the last then lets start building back up.

Also About me cheating i have cheated and i will be taking a step lower in the leadership roll and will have Kanman do as much as he can/wants but he doesn't like to deal to often in FA but i still run everything by him as to what is to be done and not and to make sure he is good with it.

This post here was done by me cause i felt i had to say something as a good friend of mine Devil left and it made me ponder that nothing new is happening in this game.

Also its not the matter of fact of being everyone one side its a matter of ending these long multiple sets of war and driving players away so we can bring in some players once we get good count of members nations stabilized then we can begin to have a platform on which wars can happen and they can end with no grudge and member count not affected.

As it is now wars just become world wars as we are so tight like prez said and that just hurts the game as we are at each others throats rather than concentrating on growing the community.

I want to see how it use to be. Average nation size was 30-35 and small nations were considered 15-20... large nations 50-60... We use to have all those elements which made this game diverse. Now its just 15-20 being considered Large and everything below that small their is no Middle class room and that brings the clustering of alliances to get "gang bangs" and we keep the cycle alive through warring because we got hit then you got hit and stuff like that, its become a routine and you know what we have been a huge reason for that. We started the cycle and it continues to go around in a circle of hatred, members of a nation that participated in that war hold grudges and the leaders have to react to it cause of the constraints on members we hold.

We need to come to the conclusion as a whole and im willing to pay for my mishaps as a leader, and my shadiness. But Mark my words nothing i have done was meant to hurt the community but it's in my eyes now that somethings we did actually did hurt or at least did not promote growth of the game.

AGAIN sorry for the long post i think i am becoming prez, just not as cool

Wow....... You and MR P. need to get together in a debate and try to see who will post the longest message.

[MAGGIO]

F you guys and your long posts...i hope you stub your toe!

I am so split on this. Part of me wants one thing and the other part of me thinks it wont matter if I get what I want.

What I mean is this.

If anyone should be taking a break it is LOR as a nation. Have a glorious set this month and dont come back. That would accomplish something I think, but only if ALI and Kanman took a break as well.

Human nature and game tradition sais that ALI and Kanman will always be a cheater and no matter how good you do for the game one little slip up and your back to being a cheater and the marder for ruining the game. Forgive me, but I dont see the willingness of the members to just forget about all the crap. The reason i say this is because every post that involves LOR always include the words cheater and ruin etc...

The problem is that if LOR disbanded there would soon be another nation that people would look at as the blame of everything. Who would it be?

for right now I dont think any nation should have more than a dozen or so members and we should spread out the players across twenty or so nations. One it would even the playing field a bit, and the other is that it would make the game seem like there were more options when joining as a new player. Im not suggesting a mandatory nation cap, I am suggesting that we simply spread out a bit.

So many have been playing together for so long that we are too comfortable with who we are with. Friendships and alliances private and public would still exist, but for some resason with out proof i think a new player would be more opt to play and stay and not just be another number in a big nation. I think they would get a more personalized experience from the nation leaders. More hands on trainng, and a chance to get addicted to the game like we are.

I dont hate LOR, and I am not suggesting that anyone quit. Why cant LOR stay with like a dozen members and ALI or Kanman split off and make a completely new nation (not LOR2). Just split the members. As for that matter USA too.

Admit that there is some fun by having a more personalized experience with a couple of guys versus a huge nation full of spam PMs. When your huge sure warring is more fun, but if everyone was smaller it would still be the same fun.

I understand that LOR members are very comfortable being one of the huge dominating nations in the game who are well protected simply because not very many other nations can compete with them. Hence suiciding or that type of mentality.

I am just saying that for alot of members I bet its too late for appologies even if this post gets 10-20 appology accepted posts.... rememebering that only about 25% of the members even post and maybe 50percent even come to the forums.

ALI if you really want to make a sacrafice as you say you do, then reduce the size of your nation and let someone else be in the spot light for once. Im not knocking LOR for doing good, because IMO LOR is one of the most successful nations EVER. Unfortunatly the reputation will never ever ever ever die IMO.

perfect example and forget the ying yang crap. USA and LOR two of the most successful nations in the game to date. Look at the drastic differences in views from the community. I think they are too drastic for LOR to make a come back as far as reputation.

Personally I would rather see 20 ten man nations than 3 twenty man nations and 10 four and five man nations. honestly were is the fun in that. So basically if you want to win than you join the nation with the most members.

I am not saying that it wont eventually happen again like that, but with more members it would be alot different.

At this point I am rambling and cannot complete my thoughts, but I hope you understand what I am saying.

I dont hate you or LOR, I just think that LOR has overstayed their welcome, and a true sign of dedication to the game would be to break from your norm and start something fresh under a differnt tag.

[MarineRecon]

so is there goin 2 be an all out war and start fresh with no b.s grudges next set or wut??? if so ill start playing again

[DBozMen]

give me one good reason why i should believe you, you just ****ing suicided my state.... and now your coming with this crap.


Yeah right, my personal opinion is that cheaters should be banned for life.