Serious War discussion

[Mr President]

I am putting this in here cause I want it to be seen and i want people to reply.

This post is not directed to one person... it is directed to all of you.

I'm not sure when or where things turned around but when i first started playing i died a lot.. Once i died i was eager to get back in the fight and kill someone else.. It was not uncommon for me to die several times during a set.
USA was in some pretty hairy wars through the years.. Ones where the odds were not in our favor and many states died to get it to what it is today. But now it seems when a war breaks out two things happen each time.. 1) there is always someone who quits 2) the forums light up with the exact same posts being made.. (wars are killing this game... this is unfair... ect ect)

Each time this happens I am faced with 2 choices.. We can take out warring from the game and then we lose all the warring members or we can keep it as it is and eventually lose all the netting members.. There really is no in between. There really are no longer any good reasons to war. This community is so tight that all the good reasons are gone. If we get new members they are well received and in no time they are a strong part of the community and nobody will war them like the don't there other friends.

I honestly have no idea on how to fix this. I wish i did but i don't. So you all are going to have to tell me.

I don't understand where the nation pride is anymore. It seems whenever something happens they don't like, they quit. They no longer work with other nations and begin a plot to revenge the situation or make the plot blow up in the enemies face. Where did all of that go? Is it cause everyone is so close now? Is it cause nobody cares anymore? I personally just don't get it.

People will spend hours playing call of duty and get killed by snipers over and over again and not quit.. But now in this game, you get killed and you quit. Yes i do understand there is more work involved in this game and getting back into the war takes a little longer but my point is still the same.

Let's take the current war for instance. Do i think it's a fair war? not hardly. Would i have chosen to attack them? Nope.. But back in the day this happened all the time and everyone loved it and got back on the horse and seeked justice.. Now they don't.. Now they either quit or better yet spend a set suiciding and then talk about how the game is dying.

We have tried fixing this some. We made the war preparation times. We increased the amount of turns for war and none of it really did any good or fixed any of the problem..We also enacted the Patriot Act which did cut suiciding down to an all time low, but the members didn't like the admin interference. But really how can we fix how people want to play the game? Some want to war, some want to net. We can't have nation being protected from war cause that kind of makes the game invalid.
I don't want 2 server, one for warring and one for netting cause again that makes the game invalid. So what can we really do? Are we just wasting our time trying to keep this game going?

Maybe it's time we really take a strong look at what we want out of this game. Maybe it's time for a big change in it. Maybe it's time to just walk away.. I have no idea.. So if you would all be so kind to tell me exactly what it is you want that would be great. If you have ideas on solutions to the war/netting problem then list them out..

Before you reply or even think about replying, don't reply if your going to spam it up or start blaming everyone else for whats wrong with the game. I don't want to hear how everything is LoR's fault or WLF's fault. They enjoy warring. It's how they play the game. And as i have always said we can't limit people to how they want to play. (except suiciders cause well they just suck and have no respect for the game or anyone else.) Post your thoughts and your ideas.. It's time to really debate about this.

[Mr President]

i just moved this to the admin news section.. I didn't want it to get buried in the wars and relations section.

[pron]

If you want a small change:

1. Add something so that a nation cannot be warred. Whether part of tech, or something like GDN and TDN. To balance that, you would need to add a negative component (less % able to be put into tech, increased taxes, less # of SA's to be made in a certain time frame, or reduce the % of land they get on landgrabs). This would allow netters to be netters, but would not simply safeguard them. It would allow a nation that could war (and be warred) an advantage to outnetting them. Also, make it so there's a time limit for someone to be a part of this nation (so that someone can't jump into the nation for a day and then jump out and vice versa). This option would have to be selected during set-up of nation.

2. Reduce the surrender feature so that it can be declared upon "building forces" phase of war. This will allow nations that simply don't want to war to surrender out before losing a state. However, make the surrendering option tougher by saying that the surrendering nation cannot do any attacks on the nation that they surrendered to for a week (including SA) and a possible reduction of the forces of individual states (not just NA).

If you want to make a big change:

1. Part of the problem with warring is that there are not a lot of available targets. We have 3-5 main nations, and in this size of community, that is pretty small. Instead of limiting nation size, why not get rid of nations altogether and replace it with diplomatic ties and whatnot. You could have military alliances that help defend (20% of your army helps defend another or something) and limit it to 3-5 alliances.
A disadvantage of this idea is that we lose part of the essence of the game. Its a nation based warring game.
An advantage is that we make the game a little more friendly to people just starting out. Also, it increases the number of people that can be warred, and allows people to be retributive more easily. It also gives warring people more targets than just 3 nations. Effectively gets rid of suiciding, since a 1v1 war is a war and not suiciding.
Make it so war can be declared from state to state. People buy tech for their own state to increase production values and whatnot.

[Magalya2]

**Lady Mags bows deeply upon hearing Mr President and spoke **

I thank you very much Mr President to have open this thread

Since a while , i am reading threads around the Nation War Lands and it brings me much questioning and i was juggling on where and how to bring my thoughts .

You do know Mr President where i come from as you have come to meet the Lords and Ladies from Lord of Legend Realm in our forum many moons ago .

Immortal Trade ( Game Maker of the LoL Realm ) had decide not without great pain to put the key in the game and close it

We were at that time around 1 k Lords and Ladies still playing the LoL game and it was ( and still is but with not much peoples left ) like in here a forum community driving game .

True that it was another kind of War game then this one but in a sense it was the same as it was a computer and coding deciding if we were winning or not and what we were loosing or not when we were attacking .

Then was coming big Wars against Clans and alliances and my my so many things

There was like here some that were looking only on building there Warlords army and win the Round .

Were they true Winners if they had not participate in any Wars and just rush power ..... the answer for me is Nope

As it is in here , when a Set finish , we all see in the ''All State Scores ''Link a ''Congratulation to XXXX for winning the Set ''....

Should it be take out so that on that page we see the Nation that will have win ??

I do not want to bring disgrace to all those that choose to simply Net but in a War Game should'nt we expect War amongst the NW Lands ????

From what i have seen , many in here are Hard Cores that have stick to the NW Game and the forum community and it is all to your honor as it mean something strong tied you all together but at the same time being together since so long also brings other elements : grudges from past Wars - concepts on how one is or not knowing how they would have posts since so many years ....

It is certainly not easy to dissociate previous concepts to simply having FUN together playing a War Game and i do understand what it can be to live with someone holding grudges from past Era as it have happen to me in teh LoL game .

It does leave scars that can be hard to heal but when we do Love the game we play and the Community , like they say '' Let it flow on your back and have FUN '' easy to say but not easy to do all the time but the NW Community being so small now , i think it is a MUST .

I can tell you that it is very hard to see a Game we do love to play ... die trust me

I think i can say that i am a war monger and when i have come to the NW Realm , i was expecting Wars and was anxious to see how it was working in here and i sure was ready to die

I do think like i have propose in another thread that when we die , we should start again with 200 turns not 100 helping peoples having fun to start over again a State and be ready again to participate in the War .their Nations are in

We can find in the ''Capture The Flag ''Game the 1 vs 1 option , there is no need in my sense to make it this way in the NW game .

The Game was working before , why change plenty of coding !!!!

Is it more a question of maybe having an introspection and realize '' ok , i might have gone wrong about a few things ....'' and start again fresh just for the FUN of the game and the peoples around we share the community with ... !!!

I think i beat you Mr President with this long post

Just a few of my thoughts thank you for reading



Lady Mags ☼

P.S. : Btw Mr President , i am still on my knees waiting for an absolution from you and my knees begin to hurt

Thank you

Edit : to bring discussion , there was little trick in my post , see page 3

[pron]

Just to bounce of Mag's thoughts

It might be worthwhile to increase the turns a restart gets based on how far the set has gone on. Say 100 turns for the first 5 days, and 50 turns for every day after that the set has gone on?

[Disorder]

Nation member caps?

[pron]

Member caps will just lead to 5 nations jumping another nation instead of just 1 nation vs. 1 nation.

[Soviet Russia]

We may totally remove AA, GA, AR and bombing from peace-time attacks. That way, there'd be no more suicidings. Because, suiciders do not mind how much turns they would waste, 5 turn attacks just make it harder, thats all. So, they'd be forced to strike as a non-nation state OR by declaring war.

We all remember that USSR was not a 'so much great' nation and unfortunately, when we got enought members and strenght, we divided into two (then 4, )

Anyway, listen guys, it was my first nation and our aim was always "warring and getting higher". Warring was not a way to disturb others, but it was a path to remove netting nations out of the way.

Unfortunately, we do not have much newbies today. And that means less illegal attacks. That is what %99 of those netters understand from the "reason of war": It is 3 and more SAs. And only n00bs do that. That makes no sense to me, why should I wait for a n00b from ABT to strike me with 3 SA for a war? How could that be 'acceptable', 3SA or 4SA or 5... its just bull****, it makes no harm, plus means gb protection.

I do not have right to speak for the war nations; but for many warrers, REASON of WAR is "getting rid of other strong nations". Thats all, thats very simple. Can't we beat you by netting? Then we'd try killing. Very legistimate.


And you should be so glad because as I could see, war nations (LoR and WLF) seek for WORTHY enemies. ICN could be argued; but in most cases, they attacked strong nations.

If I WERE there leader of WLF or LoR, you can be sure, I'd raze the stockers and jumpers. THAT'd harm the game. You should thank to Z and DBoz because they refused every suggestion by me to kill those 1-2 member stocker nations.

[Will]

There are several ways to attempt to solve the problem of warring, as well as simply leave it alone. The first and most obvious is to ban it outright. Not only will this drive away the warrers, it will have the effect of removing at a stroke jets, agm, bombers and ships (until the very end of the set) from the game. Without war attacks infantry whoring will be the norm even more than it is now. Even spies will be severely curtailed, as why bother hitting the target with a ton of spyops when you can invest the turns in grabbing or cashing, which will do far more for your score?. Also, unless it is classed as suiciding, making a string of destructive spyops on a state will have no real consequences, since you won't be able to kill/hobble the state in retaliation except genocide ops, which is a massive waste of turns for any netting state, even more so if the target is a casher.

War can be limited in some ways, but most of these will have ways of getting round them as has been noted above. You can create a nation member cap, but then you will get multiple versions of the same nation. You can remove nations, but in my opinion this will kill the game faster than any war. Nations and the diplomacy between them have been around so long that removing them is in my view unthinkable. Limiting a nation's ability to declare war based on the members in that nation may stop suiciding, but any competent and determined war nation will be able to muster the numbers to get around it.

I am convinced that the single biggest stumbling block to the war/net balance isn't the structure of the game or the specific rules attached to warring, but the mentality of players. As long as there are people who are hell bent on war, they will either find ways to war or if they are literally banned from warring ie all war attacks removed, then they will quit. Not only will this harm the playerbase, but it will lead to a game in which there is no risk for any state. The first state to get top with a decent edge in infantry will (barring exteme bad luck ie a string of red turns) win the set for certain. No state will be able to grab them. They will be able to grab anyone they want, even triple tap without fear of serious retaliation. Does anyone seriously think this will benefit the game? Even the most hardened netter will eventually tire of this and war will return, possibly to a significantly reduced player base.

We can change the written rules as much as we like, but the only way to truly solve this problem is to come up with solid unwritten rules known to every nation leader on when it is acceptable to war, and if you can't find a reason to war then you'll have to net for the set. I am a committed warrer, and while I dislike having to net when I can't find good war reasons, it is preferable to seeing people quit over pointless wars that ultimately can only lead to the death of the game.

[totte]

The problem with the game today is simple when the player base was higher war just for the sake of war was ok.

But now the player base is to small for it and at the same time in a sense people are to thin skined.

There is no diplomacy no retal policys to spark wars so for warers it´s more troublesome to find targets to war or rather to find reasons for war.


The comunity is pro netting mostly so of course when a war just for the heck of it is declared these days you know you will be flamed on the forums thus shouldnt act so suprised about it as we tend to see. because you should´ve learned by now...

And we see this set for example lor looking to war but they dont want to war abt because they are friends sky cause they got spanked alot lately so they pick another nation.

This is a problem if you want to be a war nation you cannot have friends in that sense with the current player base you either keep all options open or you dont war simple as that and i would say people seam abit simple minded today the unwritten rules of say no double taps in top 10 etc.

If you want to war you need to be abit more creative with how to do it the comunity as such is today pro netting and thus "no reason wars" is not liked,
so what you need to do is provoke a war so you do say a double tap in top 10 or some such or make a retal policy thats not aceptable to others.

On the other hand if your in a small nation or just dont want to war be smart about it talk to other nation leaders make allies so that if
you do get hit you will not stand alone against a bigger nation. Diplomacy is a tool in the game use it.

biggest problem of the game atm is the attitude of it´s players far to much energy is spent flameing eachother on the forums.

Now does my post provide any solutions? no it doesnt it mainly points out things that need to change only with a bigger player base will
this game truly get anywhere! dont be hardcore this way or that way only.
compromise abit for the better of the game if we as a comunity continue in the way we are now i personaly dont see a point in mr p wasteing his time.