I have far more that I could say about this but it doesn't seem like a good thread to do it in. I will admit that it is very hard to raise a child these days.Originally Posted by El Mestizo
Sergeant
I have far more that I could say about this but it doesn't seem like a good thread to do it in. I will admit that it is very hard to raise a child these days.
Command Sergeant
it moste definately is not. you can ask any economist who has a clue on how derivatives work.
in fact i elaborated in antoher hread some time ago, how peopel relatign the oil price rise to speculation is just bull****
Extra Bavariam nulla vita, et si vita, non est ita.
(Outside Bavaria there's no life, and if there is, it ain't worth living.)
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"When someone from Uri, Switzerland, moves to Austria, the average IQ of both countries rises." - Prof. Wigger, on interpreting mean values.
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President
Not to mention Canada 99.9999% of the time follows suit with what USA does. So that makes Canada just as bad.I was sorta thinking the same thing. Z don't you live in Canada?
Hell I don't have the smallest clue who runs Canada. I still believe your police force wears those goofy red outfits and rides on horseback.
My friend it's not the republican party that is corrupt.. It's BOTH parties. If you really think the Dems are not corrupt then you are not as smart as i thought you were. From reading some of your posts, you seem intelligent. So i hope you know that both parties are just as bad. All depends on which side your looking at it from.
"You counted on America to be passive... You counted Wrong!"
Command Sergeant
actually its worse, because they know its bad but do it anyway.Not to mention Canada 99.9999% of the time follows suit with what USA does. So that makes Canada just as bad.
america can get off the hook by sayign they were idiots.
politics is corrupt. simple as that.My friend it's not the republican party that is corrupt.. It's BOTH parties. If you really think the Dems are not corrupt then you are not as smart as i thought you were. From reading some of your posts, you seem intelligent. So i hope you know that both parties are just as bad. All depends on which side your looking at it from.
which is why i am not a fan of democracy.
edit: i should add, that i refer to the democracy that is in practive at the moment. its like communism, a good theroy but ineffective in practice do to stupidity, greed and logistics. with the right technological level of development and education, direct democracy is worth considering tho.
Last edited by KLL; 09-02-2008 at 14:38.
Extra Bavariam nulla vita, et si vita, non est ita.
(Outside Bavaria there's no life, and if there is, it ain't worth living.)
Munich Loves You
Best city in the world
"When someone from Uri, Switzerland, moves to Austria, the average IQ of both countries rises." - Prof. Wigger, on interpreting mean values.
Welcome to Germany - Land of Ideas
Private
http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/sep/01oil.htm
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...ep-rising.html
Study up, son. And those were just links I found with a quick search. This isn't even including the stuff I learned from sitting in a hospital bed when the oil prices reached the record price and watching CNN all day.
First Lieutenant
I must agree.. both parties are corrupt.. however, with this election, it is my opinion that the republican party shows more promis to be less corrupt than the Democratic party.
VP of Operations
Every politician is an honest person, right up until they get elected. No matter what party theyy are in. They have all the aspirations in the world to make this country what it can be till they reach the halls of government and realize they have to play the political game in order to keep thier cushy jobs in washington. It is all about personal p[ower, politics as practiced in this country is perverted to the point that we are where we are now. Which is one of the reasons I believe in term limits and also line item veto.
A politician is going to say and do whatever it takes to be re elected and that is the bottom line, that is what drives the political process in this country. The elite wnat to remain elite and **** the rest. It is no longer voting on the best person for the job, it has gotten to voting against the worst.
Private
Yea I know there's corruption within every facet of government these days. Its just that Republican convictions, such as the love of free enterprise, can easily corrupt decisions, for example Big Tobacco giving senators checks for voting against laws to raise smoking ages. I know its a crude example but its all I got right now.
VP of Operations
Earmarks is one of the biggest crocks of crap that has ever come down the pike. When a politician can attach a spending measure to a legitimate bill that may need to be passed, like FEMA reorganization and politicians want to attached a 1.5 million dollar grant to study the life cycle of the fruit fly by a lab in their district, is bull****. The Republican party wants to do away with earmarks and the Dems refuse to even let it come up for discussion.
That is what the politicians are doing, spending billions on pork barrle projects to get their asses re elected. That is exactly what I am telling you. This is the type of thing that needs to go the way of the Edsel.
Command Sergeant
now let me quote some stuff...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/...Oil-Summit.php
http://www.economist.com/research/ar...ry_id=11453090The U.S. energy secretary said Saturday that insufficient oil production, not financial speculation, was driving soaring crude prices.
"Market fundamentals show us that production has not kept pace with growing demand for oil, resulting in increasing prices and increasingly volatile prices," Bodman told reporters. "There is no evidence that we can find that speculators are driving futures prices" for oil.
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ry_id=11670357But Jeffrey Harris, the chief economist of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), which regulates NYMEX and other American commodities exchanges, does not see any evidence that the growth of speculation in oil has caused the price to rise. Rising prices, after all, might have been stimulating the growing investment, rather than the other way around. There is no clear correlation between increased speculation and higher prices in commodities markets in general. Despite a continuing flow of investment in nickel, for example, its price has fallen by half over the past year.
Investment can flood into the oil market without driving up prices because speculators are not buying any actual crude. Instead, they buy contracts for future delivery. When those contracts mature, they either settle them with a cash payment or sell them on to genuine consumers. Either way, no oil is hoarded or somehow kept off the market. The contracts are really a bet about which way the price will go and the number of bets does not affect the amount of oil available. As Mr Harris puts it, there is no limit to the number of “paper barrels” that can be bought and sold.
That makes it harder for a bubble to develop in oil than in the shares of internet firms, say, or in housing, where the supply of the asset is finite. Ultimately, says David Kirsch of PFC Energy, a consultancy, there is only one type of customer for crude: refineries. If speculators on the futures markets get carried away, pushing prices so high that refineries run at a loss, they will simply shut down, causing the price to fall again. Moreover, speculators do not always assume that prices will rise. As recently as last year, the speculative bears on NYMEX outweighed the bulls.
But Bob Greer, of PIMCO, an asset-management firm, argues that even index funds make unlikely suspects. For one thing, they too invest in futures, rather than in physical supplies of oil. So every month, they must trade contracts that are about to fall due for ones that will not mature for several months. That makes them big sellers of oil for prompt delivery.
What is more, their growth is not as impressive as it first appears. Paul Horsnell of Barclays Capital, an investment bank, puts the total value of index funds and other similar investments at $225 billion. That is less than half the market capitalisation of Exxon Mobil, he points out, and a tiny fraction of the $50 trillion-odd of transactions in the oil markets each year. Although index funds have grown quickly, that growth stems in large part from the rise in value of the futures they hold, rather than from fresh investment flows. He estimates that index funds swelled by $13 billion in the first quarter of this year, for example, of which all but $2 billion derives from the rise in commodity prices.
so yea read up on quality research before you go and try to argue with someone who actually knows what hes talking about (and what he is trading)Follow the oil, not the futures
This reasoning holds obvious appeal for those looking for a scapegoat. But there is little evidence to support it. For one thing, the surge in investment in oil futures is not that large relative to the global trade in oil. Barclays Capital, an investment bank, calculates that “index funds”, which have especially exercised the politicians because they always bet on rising prices, account for only 12% of the outstanding contracts on NYMEX and have a value equivalent to just 2% of the world’s yearly oil consumption.
More importantly, neither index funds nor other speculators ever buy any physical oil. Instead, they buy futures and options which they settle with a cash payment when they fall due. In essence, these are bets on which way the oil price will move. Since the real currency of such contracts is cash, rather than barrels of crude, there is no limit to the number of bets that can be made. And since no oil is ever held back from the market, these bets do not affect the price of oil any more than bets on a football match affect the result.
The futures market does sometimes signal that prices are likely to rise, which might prompt speculators to hoard oil in anticipation. But it is not signalling that at the moment, and there is no sign of hoarding. In the absence of rising stocks, it is hard to argue that the oil markets have lost their grip on reality.
what you studied on tv... i study at university. which one of us do you think is the better authority?
and CNN is a joke
Extra Bavariam nulla vita, et si vita, non est ita.
(Outside Bavaria there's no life, and if there is, it ain't worth living.)
Munich Loves You
Best city in the world
"When someone from Uri, Switzerland, moves to Austria, the average IQ of both countries rises." - Prof. Wigger, on interpreting mean values.
Welcome to Germany - Land of Ideas
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