Will gives birth...

[Divine Intervention]

Taken when? In 1939 after they signed a pact with hitler and the germans? Or Sept 17th 1939 when they invaded poland? Or do you mean in Nov when the soviets invaded Finland or 40 when they occupied the baltics, lithuiania, latvia and estonia?

Basically I guess what I mean is are you refering to the countries they were conquering while being in a pact and warmongering along side hitler, or do you mean the bit of help they were once Hitler broke the pact and attacked the soviets.....

Because if your refering to the countries they conquered while in bed with hitler........ then I don't understand the question.

Poland - refused Soviet help in the form of placing troops on their border with Germany. Pact with Nazi Germany signed because Britain and France wouldn't sign one. Regarding Poland - if you were Soviet High command would you have just sat back and let the Nazi war machine advance so much closer to USSR? Buffer state created against future German aggression. Finland? Conflict occurred due to their blatantly anti-Soviet intentions. Saint Petersburg was in a prime location to receive heavy bombardment from Finish territory in case of a war against Soviet Union by Germany (with Finland as allies). Finland was offered a v.good deal (in terms of territory swap) but refused. Anyone giving the BS about it being a war of conquest - well why did the Soviets attack the most highly fortified region instead of attacking through the much vastly less defended border they had in the north with Finland?

[Divine Intervention]

oh and im not going to re-read the thread now (will do later) but i think i noticed some gross underrating of the Russian contribution to WW1, WW2 and the Napoleon wars (although i think that was just Will)

[Bram Gotink]

oh and im not going to re-read the thread now (will do later) but i think i noticed some gross underrating of the Russian contribution to WW1, WW2 and the Napoleon wars (although i think that was just Will)

WW I :
If I remember correctly, Russian input in this war stopped in 1917 with the end of the Czar's regime.

WW II :
Russia was part of the Allied Forces, and helped liberate Germany. Good job.
Russia was, however, the cause of the American bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima... They bombed it to make sure that them commies could not gain influence in Japan.
Of course, the USSR was not the best nation ever, but it had it's charms... the StaatsSicherheit of the DDR for example... (who, btw, supported the RAF with money and weapons, how dared they !)

Napoleonic Wars :
IDK about Russia's input in those wars...
Except that they were the first of Napoleons Defeats... Setting the torch to Moscow, Nice one btw. Which reminds me that you did the exact same thing with Hitler's troops...

[Divine Intervention]

WW I :
If I remember correctly, Russian input in this war stopped in 1917 with the end of the Czar's regime.

WW II :
Russia was part of the Allied Forces, and helped liberate Germany. Good job.
Russia was, however, the cause of the American bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima... They bombed it to make sure that them commies could not gain influence in Japan.
Of course, the USSR was not the best nation ever, but it had it's charms... the StaatsSicherheit of the DDR for example... (who, btw, supported the RAF with money and weapons, how dared they !)

Napoleonic Wars :
IDK about Russia's input in those wars...
Except that they were the first of Napoleons Defeats... Setting the torch to Moscow, Nice one btw. Which reminds me that you did the exact same thing with Hitler's troops...

Time for a history lesson.

WW1 - German success depended on the quick defeat of the French forces using the schlieffen plan. Its success was linked to the assumption that the German armed forces would defeat the French before Russia entered the conflict (by which time the Germans would have transported their army over to the Eastern front). Russias above-expected rapid mobilization resulted in the Germans being forced to send vast amounts of troops onto the Eastern front hence meaning they didnt have enough resources to follow the Schlieffen plan exactly (e.g. not being able to encircle...Paris i think?) and eventually resulting in them getting bogged down in a war of attrition and stalemate. All because of Russias fast response. Had Russia not been able to mobilize so quickly and tie down vast resources of the German army then the French would have been defeated, Britain would have been left sitting on its Island and the Russians would have been defeated 1 on 1 also. A point most people forget is that when Russia did leave the war in 1917, the Germans were able to have a massive break through later on due to having more resources available due to not fighting on 2 fronts anymore. Infact too successful. They got overstretched and the rest is history.

WW2. WTF??? USA bombed those 2 cities because they estimated that the invasion of Japan would have resulted in incredibly high casualties. This is the first time i hear this theory...the Russians defeated the Japanese in Manchuria and China however i have never heard of any Soviet plans to invade Japan. USA bombed them because they knew that Japan would continue fighting.

Napoleon - Russia lured Napoleons massive army deep into Russian territory then completely destroyed it on the way back. i think only 50k survived from the 750k < that invaded our country. Setting torch to moscow? nice? i agree.
French were hoping to settle down in cozy peace in our city however they were left with no shelter and not being the superhuman people that us Russians are () they had to run away .

[Max Logan]

Poland - refused Soviet help in the form of placing troops on their border with Germany. Pact with Nazi Germany signed because Britain and France wouldn't sign one. Regarding Poland - if you were Soviet High command would you have just sat back and let the Nazi war machine advance so much closer to USSR? Buffer state created against future German aggression. Finland? Conflict occurred due to their blatantly anti-Soviet intentions. Saint Petersburg was in a prime location to receive heavy bombardment from Finish territory in case of a war against Soviet Union by Germany (with Finland as allies). Finland was offered a v.good deal (in terms of territory swap) but refused. Anyone giving the BS about it being a war of conquest - well why did the Soviets attack the most highly fortified region instead of attacking through the much vastly less defended border they had in the north with Finland?

you do realised you just said that everyone who didn`t agree to USSR terms got warred?

Or the fact Stalin missed an attack on Hitler by 2 days. He was like 'WTF?' when Hitler stroke 1st. Took Stalin quite a time and quite the help from West to make a counter attack. And ofcourse a whole lot of cannon fooders!

[Bram Gotink]

Time for a history lesson.

WW1 - German success depended on the quick defeat of the French forces using the schlieffen plan. Its success was linked to the assumption that the German armed forces would defeat the French before Russia entered the conflict (by which time the Germans would have transported their army over to the Eastern front). Russias above-expected rapid mobilization resulted in the Germans being forced to send vast amounts of troops onto the Eastern front hence meaning they didnt have enough resources to follow the Schlieffen plan exactly (e.g. not being able to encircle...Paris i think?) and eventually resulting in them getting bogged down in a war of attrition and stalemate. All because of Russias fast response. Had Russia not been able to mobilize so quickly and tie down vast resources of the German army then the French would have been defeated, Britain would have been left sitting on its Island and the Russians would have been defeated 1 on 1 also. A point most people forget is that when Russia did leave the war in 1917, the Germans were able to have a massive break through later on due to having more resources available due to not fighting on 2 fronts anymore. Infact too successful. They got overstretched and the rest is history.

IIRC, Belgium was all that stood between Germany and France, so it's our fault the German attack failed. That gave the Russians enough time to get their troops ready. Yes, they were ready faster than anticipated, but still. Without Belgium, Europe would've been Germany now.
And while the Russians were enjoying the death of the Czar, our armies were fighting back the Yperite (named after the Belgian city/town called Yper (Ieper in't nederlands)) and defending with all we had. Our armies were under the command of King Albert I (oh no, a royalty as a military leader in 1914-18 :s ), who could hold the Germans and keep them from crossing the IJzer (IDK what that river is called in English) by i.e. flooding a part of the countryside.
It was also b/c Germany attacked Belgium that England got involved. The deal with Belgium was, that in exchange of it's political independence (not allying with anyone, not picking sides in wars), England, France and a couple of other countries (named the big five) would garantee it's safety from attacks etc. England was obliged to enter the war, or break the treaty with Belgium.

WW2. WTF??? USA bombed those 2 cities because they estimated that the invasion of Japan would have resulted in incredibly high casualties. This is the first time i hear this theory...the Russians defeated the Japanese in Manchuria and China however i have never heard of any Soviet plans to invade Japan. USA bombed them because they knew that Japan would continue fighting.

That's what all Belgian students learn in 6th grade in High School. I did, at least

Napoleon - Russia lured Napoleons massive army deep into Russian territory then completely destroyed it on the way back. i think only 50k survived from the 750k < that invaded our country. Setting torch to moscow? nice? i agree.
French were hoping to settle down in cozy peace in our city however they were left with no shelter and not being the superhuman people that us Russians are () they had to run away .

You just said the same thing as I did, but with numbers... That was a brilliant example of tactics Russia used there...

[Green]

WW2. WTF??? USA bombed those 2 cities because they estimated that the invasion of Japan would have resulted in incredibly high casualties. This is the first time i hear this theory...the Russians defeated the Japanese in Manchuria and China however i have never heard of any Soviet plans to invade Japan. USA bombed them because they knew that Japan would continue fighting.

It wasn't a military invasion that the US was worried about imo.