After careful consideration...

[Dogma]

You know, I have thought for some time about why our game is slowly going by the wayside and I would like to bounce a few things off you folks.

In trying to figure out why new players that sign up don't stay around very long I have come up with a few ideas. Of the new players that have signed up in the last couple months, how many are still here and active? I have no clue, but I would venture to say there are not near as many as there were to sign up.

Why could this be? I know that when I started or start any new game, I am first trying to figure out what the game is about and how to navigate around in the site. What does what and why. Did our new players, before they got a chance to really figure anything out, get killed in a war? WHo knows. Did theytry and work their way thru the intricacies of the game on their own? Did they hang around for a set and something happen that turned them off? Did they receive any personal contact from anyone in the game that offered not only to help, but to welcome them into the community?

When I started, back in 2002, I did a lot of the same things. I tried to figure outthe game on my own and made many mistakes. I got frustrated with the complexity of it all and almost gave it up. I was in DaB for over a year before I was ever warred. I know what you guys are going to say, "it is a war game". That is not my point. Yes there is a war aspect to the game and it cannot nor should it be written out of the game. There is a need for it. But as has been pointed in a conversation I had with Calvin this morning, it is hard to get your members to show up for a war chat these days. Last set, even LoR had issues with war chats.

What is this telling us? Does it say that there are those that would like to see the game without wars? Who knows, Does it tell us that maybe the older players are not as into warring as others in the community? Who Knows. Does it tell us that the new player we recruit either don't know enough or don care enough about warring that they choose not to participate? Who knows.

I just think that when new players come in they should be offered the opportunity to learn how to run a state before trying to be warriors. I know there are those who will argue with me on that, but lets just look at things objectively. Does a new player really understand all the ins and outs of being in a war when they don't even understand running a pure strat?

I remember when the first thing you taught a new player was how to make his state profitable and balanced. That is not being understood or conveyed to knew players anymore. There is an art to building a good state and everyone here knows that a good state can either net or war should th need arise. Everyone has all these ideas for changing the program to make wars this or that, I don't think that is the answer. I think that a new player should be reached out to and offered help and friendship before making them show up for a war chat. It is just my opinion that we as a group need to start making sure that new players are comfortable in their position with their states and how to build one before they are required to restart in the midst of a war.

Now before I am railed against, stop and think fo ra minute how many of the things I have said are actually the truth and how much of it is BS. I am not, I repeat NOT, saying that wars should be ended or changed, I am only saying that maybe some of the new players that join are being killed before they really understand what they are doing. That is frustrating as hell, I know, it happened to me.

Comments?

[pron]

You have any statistics on how many new states have been killed?

[ooga booga]

While I agree with you dogma, I think a lot of the new players here lately become inactive after the first week of the game, before the wars start. I usually see the players with N either never leave protection, or stop playing after they have 1k land. I don't know if there is a better way to reach out to them somehow.

[Xavior]

Actually, I'd disagree with your thoughts Dogma.

I think most of us have fun when there is less restrictions placed on us. I've had this conversation with many people about many games I've played. Isn't it fun when you have no idea what you're doing and just do whatever you want in a game? Liked i posted in the other thread on warring, when I first joined, I did every single type of attack, failed most of them, ran mixed strat in CW with Max Logan, got killed by Empire and DAK right off the bat, but I had fun doing it. Now a days, I know what I'm doing. I know how to run a top state, but I have no more satisfaction placing rank 4 than placing rank 100.

All this protecting new states is going the wrong direction. Let them stand up for themselves for once. Offer them help, there is no need to rage at anyone who attacks them. As long as we don't go out deliberately killing new states we're fine.

As to why we're not keeping most of them, I don't think that thats the case if you're comparing now to back in 2002. I think the % of states kept may be the same but is just magnified when less new states sign up and with our already low member base. Unless we have some hard numbers from Mr. P and Svenne, all this is speculation.

[Dogma]

Actually, I'd disagree with your thoughts Dogma.

I think most of us have fun when there is less restrictions placed on us. I've had this conversation with many people about many games I've played. Isn't it fun when you have no idea what you're doing and just do whatever you want in a game? Liked i posted in the other thread on warring, when I first joined, I did every single type of attack, failed most of them, ran mixed strat in CW with Max Logan, got killed by Empire and DAK right off the bat, but I had fun doing it. Now a days, I know what I'm doing. I know how to run a top state, but I have no more satisfaction placing rank 4 than placing rank 100.

All this protecting new states is going the wrong direction. Let them stand up for themselves for once. Offer them help, there is no need to rage at anyone who attacks them. As long as we don't go out deliberately killing new states we're fine.

As to why we're not keeping most of them, I don't think that thats the case if you're comparing now to back in 2002. I think the % of states kept may be the same but is just magnified when less new states sign up and with our already low member base. Unless we have some hard numbers from Mr. P and Svenne, all this is speculation.

I am not trying to say that we restrict anything. I don't agree with offereing a protection to new players outof hand, I am not proposing us changing anything in the game, I am only trying o see if we can get our heads together and see what the deal is why we can't keep thenew players that sign up.

Please understand, I am not blaming wars for anything, I am asking questions and just trying to see what we have done or can do to make it a more inviting place for our new players and something where they can learn to enjoy our community the same as we do. I thought if I tried to open a frank discussion that we could maybe brainstorm together and figure something out.

[Mhaphew]

You know, I have thought for some time about why our game is slowly going by the wayside and I would like to bounce a few things off you folks.

In trying to figure out why new players that sign up don't stay around very long I have come up with a few ideas. Of the new players that have signed up in the last couple months, how many are still here and active? I have no clue, but I would venture to say there are not near as many as there were to sign up.

Why could this be? I know that when I started or start any new game, I am first trying to figure out what the game is about and how to navigate around in the site. What does what and why. Did our new players, before they got a chance to really figure anything out, get killed in a war? WHo knows. Did theytry and work their way thru the intricacies of the game on their own? Did they hang around for a set and something happen that turned them off? Did they receive any personal contact from anyone in the game that offered not only to help, but to welcome them into the community?

When I started, back in 2002, I did a lot of the same things. I tried to figure outthe game on my own and made many mistakes. I got frustrated with the complexity of it all and almost gave it up. I was in DaB for over a year before I was ever warred. I know what you guys are going to say, "it is a war game". That is not my point. Yes there is a war aspect to the game and it cannot nor should it be written out of the game. There is a need for it. But as has been pointed in a conversation I had with Calvin this morning, it is hard to get your members to show up for a war chat these days. Last set, even LoR had issues with war chats.

What is this telling us? Does it say that there are those that would like to see the game without wars? Who knows, Does it tell us that maybe the older players are not as into warring as others in the community? Who Knows. Does it tell us that the new player we recruit either don't know enough or don care enough about warring that they choose not to participate? Who knows.

I just think that when new players come in they should be offered the opportunity to learn how to run a state before trying to be warriors. I know there are those who will argue with me on that, but lets just look at things objectively. Does a new player really understand all the ins and outs of being in a war when they don't even understand running a pure strat?

I remember when the first thing you taught a new player was how to make his state profitable and balanced. That is not being understood or conveyed to knew players anymore. There is an art to building a good state and everyone here knows that a good state can either net or war should th need arise. Everyone has all these ideas for changing the program to make wars this or that, I don't think that is the answer. I think that a new player should be reached out to and offered help and friendship before making them show up for a war chat. It is just my opinion that we as a group need to start making sure that new players are comfortable in their position with their states and how to build one before they are required to restart in the midst of a war.

Now before I am railed against, stop and think fo ra minute how many of the things I have said are actually the truth and how much of it is BS. I am not, I repeat NOT, saying that wars should be ended or changed, I am only saying that maybe some of the new players that join are being killed before they really understand what they are doing. That is frustrating as hell, I know, it happened to me.

Comments?

#1 reason we don't get any new players or don't keep new players...

The game is too hard for new players to grasp.

[totte]

we need an irc chan like we had back in the days

[Mr President]

Nice post Dogma..

As for the stats I have several ways of gathering them. Each way has it's own meaning for why I did them. Some of them are kind of confusing and it would take more time for me to explain then it's really worth .. I'll give you one breakdown.

In the last 30 days, 29 new states were created and logged into more then once. Out of those 29, 18 States have actually logged back in 5 or more times since the creation of their state. 11 of those states logged in less than 5 times after their state was created..

So why did these 11 leave? Who knows. I do try to send an email asking them why they left and some reply, some don't. There are sets (normally war sets) where people reply the community is too harsh and have weird rules. That is normally the number 1 reply I receive. Then there are those who say they were killed, or bored or the game just isn't for them.

We will never be able to keep everyone who signs up. Some sign up just to see what's it's all about then leave and never come back. Now statistically, if your comparing these same stats from previous NW sets, we are on a nice incline. 18 out of 29 members have stuck around or at least logged in 5 or more times.. Honestly that number for us is great.

I try not to compare our stats to WoW old stats cause we can't really do that anymore. Nation-Wars is so different than what WoW use to be.. I mean think about all the changes that have been made.. It's amazing ..

It's anyone's guess on how to get and keep new members. We all have ideas and it's great sharing them. I feel many of the new things implemented have made a huge impact on the game. Making the game modern looking was a huge plus for us.

A lot of people say things like text based games are out of style. Yes that is true. Most people want the great graphics and the feel of being right in the action. BUT, they are far from over. Nukezone has a large member base, Earth (until they shut down) had a decent member base, and let's look at AstroEmpires.. That game is freaking huge! Yes it has some graphics but it's mainly a text based game.

As for changes, yes i'm looking at the whole picture on attacking and all that. I'm looking at adding units or taking some out or a little of both. Missiles are a must in this game. I don't know when it will happen but it will happen. Changing up the attacking feature will also happen in time. But it won't be as drastic as some think it will be. My main goal is to make things make a little more sense. Having jets the only attack to kill land doesn't make a whole lot sense to me.. Also having 190 Million ships doesn't really make sense either.. Is there really enough water on the planet to hold that many ???

It has been proven time and time again that the little changes make the largest difference. My plan is to continue with that as well as look at other ways to make things better. Not every way will be better, but we have to try to always keep this game moving forward.. If we don't, we die!

As for new members, it's another toss up. There are times when we smother a new member and I think it chases them away, and then there are times when we treat them like poop and that chases them away. I really think the missions were a great idea and i think we need to expand on them.. Maybe some missions that will cover every single aspect of the game. I also think instant pop up help tabs or mouse over comments would help people learn their way around as well. And of course, I think the navigation needs to be looked at again as well. I think we have to many tabs on the left side. Maybe we need to have a main screen with some tabs and also a Nations main screen with some tabs. Kinda like WoW use to be where you had the tabs at the top of the "Members" page.. Who knows but all of it will get looked at over time. Many make suggestions and feel ignored if their suggestion isn't implemented right then.. Not the case.. Some things just take time.

Getting our name out is the best way to increase membership. The members we have right now could do us the biggest service. Every single one of you has friends (except Tnova who is a loner). I would bet most of you has a facebook page with 100+ friends. Why are we not hitting them to play? I implemented the "Invite a Friend" page and it is hardly used. I would say MAYBE 20 emails have gone out since implemented.. And half of those are to yourself to see how it looked.

Our main tools are from within. WE ALL have a hand in our fate of this game. That is why I like to interact with all of you as much as I do. It's cause WE ALL are in this together.. This isn't just my game and allow you all to play.. This is OUR game. Every single one of you has a stake in it one way or another. So it's up to us to make it work. Kinda look at it like we are a company and you all are the board of that company..

My last point I would like to make is, most of us talk about how it was when we first started playing.. It is really hard to compare then with now. The internet has changed so much and continues to change everyday. The people surfing the net has changed. Some of you who have been here forever just don't have the passion or time to run a nation. I know I don't. So that is why we need a younger generation to pass the leadership off too and help them along the way if needed. We have to let them learn and play at THEIR own pace and offer help when THEY want it.. Not when we feel they need it.

[Mr President]

we need an irc chan like we had back in the days

when i die i think you will sneak in and etch this on my tombstone..

"Here lies Mr. President. Maybe he would have lived longer if we had an IRC chat room in Nation-Wars."

[jkl9926]

well from a semi new perspective i remember how the game used to be and this was the first set that i have played in about 5 years. The problem that i had was that when i looked for world-of-war.com it no longer existed the only reason i actually found this place was by googling svenne. I think buying the old domain and having it route you hear might help to bring former players to this game.
Also the game is very hard to figure out and other than a few startup strats we dont have much info to give to new players. I am definitely not the one to do it but if we could get someone to develop a turn by turn instruction sheet for new people i think that it would help alot. The hardest part about this game is understanding the little things that all of the old players take for granted.
I learned based on my memory of the game but true new players dont have that advantage, the missions help and expanding on them would be good because it shows you how to do different things within the game to help you on your way.

I would also like to see more people take pride in there nation when i used to play the nations seemed like a bigger part of everything. LoR is prolly the closest to being a nation that works well together but seeing them struggle with there war chats really surprised me this set. I am definitely not trying to dis on LoR i really like that you guys work together and i would like to see more of it in this game. War is a great way to get new players involved and i think we need to work on way to get them involved when there is not a war.

When I first started playing this game i asked dogma and Tnova questions like every 5 mins and i know that was probably annoying for them but it helped me to better understand the game.

anyways i would really like to see this game do well so i hope we can retain some new members.