I feel there were some good debates going on in the other thread, but it
was closed. So now i would like to keep it going in this thread. I will merge a few posts in here from the other one to get it back on track.
Originally Posted by pcgluva
President
I feel there were some good debates going on in the other thread, but it
was closed. So now i would like to keep it going in this thread. I will merge a few posts in here from the other one to get it back on track.
Last edited by Mr President; 11-05-2007 at 14:30.
"You counted on America to be passive... You counted Wrong!"
President
ooga..
Weapons of mass destruction was the main excuse to go into Iraq. granted i still believe they had them, but simply moved them around when we were building up forces. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people for crying out loud.
And give Iraq to IRAN???? Are you nuts? Why would you give Iran anything more? If anything give Iran to Iraq
the east has always hated the west. Yes there were times we fought along side each other but they needed something done so why not go along with the dumb americans who buy into everything. And one more thing. The middle east has been at war since the beginning of time. It's not just the west they hate, THEY HATE EVERYONE! Even themselves
in a war over there right now. So now everyone blames America for making the east hate us.. oh please! We could be over there right now baking them cookies and they still would complain that we have to much sugar in them.
If it wasn't for oil, not one country would care what the desert people did with themselves. ALL nations work to keep the peace cause ALL nations need the oil. No it's not just Americans who need it.. ALL of us need it.
Once the oil is gone, or we have other means of fuel, do you really think anyone is going to give two flying barf bags about the middle east?
Last edited by Mr President; 10-27-2007 at 10:57.
"You counted on America to be passive... You counted Wrong!"
Command Sergeant
Weapons of mass destruction was the main excuse to go into Iraq. granted i still believe they had them, but simply moved them around when we were building up forces. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people for crying out loud.
And give Iraq to IRAN???? Are you nuts? Why would you give Iran anything more? If anything give Iran to Iraq
the east has always hated the west. Yes there were times we fought along side each other but they needed something done so why not go along with the dumb americans who buy into everything. And one more thing. The middle east has been at war since the beginning of time. It's not just the west they hate, THEY HATE EVERYONE! Even themselves
in a war over there right now. So now everyone blames America for making the east hate us.. oh please! We could be over there right now baking them cookies and they still would complain that we have to much sugar in them.
If it wasn't for oil, not one country would care what the desert people did with themselves. ALL nations work to keep the peace cause ALL nations need the oil. No it's not just Americans who need it.. ALL of us need it.
Once the oil is gone, or we have other means of fuel, do you really think anyone is going to give two flying barf bags about the middle east?
i know saddam had chemicals, he used them against the kurds. and usa knows they had it cuase they were the ones who sold to them.
Iran is the in this war why becuase they have to protect their own *** form usa and by keeping them occupied in iraq they have them secured for the time being. once USA leaves Iraq u know who Iraq will turn to? Iran why? Iraq is moj. shiite. Sunnies and Shiites in this time era ( well in every time ear) are not getting along. Iraq needs Iran if its to rebiuld it self as they have soo much in fluence thier.
yes Middle East beens at war for ages and so has USA in its short history. but right now its not east v. west, it more like USA v. the rest. The Americans have thier finger in everything.
and yes thier are other means of fuel all u have to do is ask ur president for that
bottom line USA is the world power they can bully anyone they wish all they have to remember is what goes around comes around.
America became a powerhouse during WW I when it went from roughly 24k troops up to around 1 mil in a few years now given those numbers are most likely wrong but that is still a massive increase...
Why do you think the Globe is getting warmer? America has its finger in it...
whoops my bad... joke
Command Sergeant
so u cant blame them for hating u can u?
Captain
hmmmm Yea we kinda became a powerhouse then, but we still werent really noticed as teh big huncho.... not till Peal Harbor and the Start of WW2 taht the world saw us as a huge world power
Captain
Hmmm idk Sean i think we are donig worse then saddam.... yea he was ****ed up for killin his own ppl and constantly killin the Kurds... but Saddam was also the only one who united the Sunnies and Shiites somethign that prob wont happen for a very long time if it ever does..... like i said in another post we really unbalanaced the region.....
And for the reasons we went into IRAQ are reasons for war... wtf are we waiting for to go into Iran and other Countries in that region
and Mr P you are wrong about everyone caring about Oil in the Mid east.... thats holy land... the wars have been giong on there for 1000s of years... and oil has only be around for wat 100 or so years....
The Middle East will always be on the spotlight since thats the Holy Land for about 80% of the world..... Wars are always gonna happen there and wont stop ever... not till one of the sides gets strong enough and set out on mission of Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide........ not saying i agree wit that but thats the only way peace will ever come to the Mid east
Private First Class
Nice. A real discussion for a change instead of all the usual back-patting.
First, I'd like to give credit to the US, as recent operations has shown that you've learned from your history, Vietnam as well as Iraq. A war on foreign soil as this is not about bombing the **** out of the enemy, but making sure the population is on your side. You will never kill all the bad guys. What you need to do is to make sure that the general population hate the troublemakers more than your soldiers, and face it. With your and other western countries history and having, to them a foreign, infidel religion, you're in it with a handicap. Any soldier placed in Iraq will be walking around with a perceived red flag on them, unless you clearly show that your presence is in the interest of the common man living there, a perception which is not turned overnight, and can easily be ruined by operations like blackwater and similar.
Sure, in a perfect world, Saddam should be removed, but what else is there in this region. Almost all of Iraq's neighbouring countries are more oppressive than Saddam. No one can surely claim that countries like Iran, Syria and Saudi-Arabia has treated their populations any better than Saddam did. Sure, he did a good effort killing off kurds, but even one of NATO's most important allies, Turkey, are going to great lengths towarads fighting the kurds, and are still doing so. And as far as oppression goes, if you were to pick on country in that region that were the most oppressive towards their own population, no one in their right mind would pick anything but Saudi-Arabia, an ally.
As for Saddam supporting Al-Quaida, there is no evidence supporting that whatsoever. Al-Quaida was not active in Iraq until the US arrived. Now it is a holy battlefield for the Jihad-extremists. Saudi-Arabia is a major supplier of those.
The fact is that it is a screwed up place which is better left alone. They operate with a completely different set of morals and they don't want anyone pushing western morals and ideals of democracy on them. Their terrorist acts were not an arbitraty act, but a reaction towards western influence in their own sphere. As any other country in this world, they want to be left alone, and not have "better" moral standards of personal conduct and democracy pushed onto them by infidels, but be left alone to make their own decisions on how they want their society to be. Just the same as any other country in this world would.
The same goes for Afghanistan. On one hand, I'd agree that this is were the terrorists really are located, and I completely support the initial operations to weaken the terrorist networks there and the overthrowment of the Taliban. On the other hand, the areas where Osama and Co are most likely located today are in Pashtun territories. If you think the islamists are screwed, you'd be amazed if you looked at the moral codes of these people. Unless you know exactly where Osama is located and can deliver a precision strike against him, these people are better left alone. Their views on morals and the world are so foreign and illogical to western minds, that you're stuck with two options. Leave them alone, or kill them all.
More US citizens have been killed in Iraq than those killed in terrorist acts. As a bonus, you've managed to turn the world sentiment from a fairly positive view towards the US to a strongly negative one. Believe it or not, but the US had a sizeable amount of international goodwill, which has been completely wasted as a result of the Bush adminstration's actions. And even if you were tofy Iraq, and turn it into a country of your own liking, you'd still be left with tons of prospective terrorists from all the neighbouring countries. All you've accomplished then is perhaps a more stable oil supply, but in no terms a home country safer from terrorist acts. Sure, oil is important, but is it morally right to sacrifice the lives of young patriotic americans for lower oil prices?
From what I can see, all those american soldiers lives has been spent on the Bush administrations's agenda, and not on the safety of the American people. If Iraq wasn't invaded, I doubt you'd find any of Saddam's agents showing up in the US to mindlessly kill innocent Americans.
President
Holy crap.. and you all complain about my speeches
First @ hoe, If you think for one min that the US govt or any other major Govt cares that the middle east is the "holy" land then you are mistaken. All we see is the oil we need and an unbalanced country controlling it. I do agree that the whole region over there has always been at war and always will, cause THEY are the ones who care about the holy land.
Mwahahaha:
I actually agree with what you said.
The main thing is we all try to speculate why the US invaded Iraq. We really do not know why. The only one who knows this for sure is GW Bush and Co. There are so many deals that are made that the normal citizen has no clue about.
I for one don't agree that we need to set up Democracy in every country. Why do we have to have everyone doing what we do? The reason is cause if we set them up with a Democracy then we can control MORE of what they do. Like Mwahaha said, we actually had a nice goodwill presence in that region, but now we don't. Yes someone needs to stand up and stop the terrorists, but dang let's go to where the terrorists really are, and let's get the ones who really hit us.
In Desert Storm Saddam was totally humiliated. There was so much talk about how big and strong his army was that everyone thought we were getting into another war like vietnam. Little did he know his men would throw up there hands at the first sign of US Troops. He lost more than the war during that time. But why on earth would he even try that again? He knows that if he attacked the US that he would lose. Don't get me wrong, i'm glad he is gone, but he was not the #1 priority.
I don't even here anything about Bin Laden on the news anymore, unless of course he sends another letter making his threats. Then it's pumped into our minds so we can be scared. I'm sorry, but i don't believe for one second that we can't find him. We have satalite's that can tell what color my crap is, so i don't buy that we can't find him. I think we don't want to find him. Cause once we do then 99.9999% of the Americans will want us out of Iraq right now! But if Bin Laden is still on the run and free then we have justification in staying in Iraq.
Oil to me is the only logical explination as to why we are in Iraq. We needed and wanted to get more control over this oil supply. Could you imagine what would happen if Iraq cut off oil suppies to the US? But now that we have set up there Govt and helped them in setting up a democracy, well now we have our hands deeper in there pockets and are able to "control" them easier.
I see good points and bad points to this war.
"You counted on America to be passive... You counted Wrong!"
President
By all means, create a topic that will get us debating. We don't have as many members as we use to have in WoW, but the ones here will still engage in a good debate over issues..
And in time, we hope to have lots more members who will do the same..
But we need good posts to keep the interest..
"You counted on America to be passive... You counted Wrong!"
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