Max Logan - Lord Burch - Soviet Russia

[Xavior]

Marx' ideal state was not a Russian one anyway. Whatever, Communism itself was a fail ideology. Today all we have is a nostalgic museum state Cuba, a highly capitalist one-party China, family business North Korea and a weak Vietnam.

None of above are 'real' Communists, because there is nothing such as real communism. Its a story in a fantasy role playing book.

So everyone please stop replying the kid. Wait if he reads and learns more in years.

As a closing note to you 'Soviet Russia', I never referred to it as Communism, but rather Sovietism (in other words, Soviet Nationalism. Communism wasn't really the hammer and sickle. That was Soviet Nationalism.) Indeed you are right about the part referring that Communism doesn't really work and really is something relevant to a fantasy. The solidarity for their nation was what drove the citizens to work together, not some mediocre abstract philosophy which all will be forgotten in a few generations from our time; created by Karl Marx.

I was merely saying that studying in college doesn`t make you and expert...

Solidarity of their nation? Soviet Nationalism?

Russia already was a 'solitary' nation. And no, Communism theory and Marx had nothing to do with the revolution, not at all. It wasn`t the idea of 'freeing' oppressed masses of middle and lower class from working in inhuman conditions. It wasn`t that the largest class of people was rallied under the communist ideology. Now I`m convinced, you really do NOT know what you`re talking about

The deleted posts are the last 2 ^

[Divine Intervention]

I can pretty much guarantee that the level of "in-correctness", in this thread, is, from most to least, as follows:

Lord Burch (most)
Soviet Russia
Max Logan
Xavior (least).

EDIT, live update: new list:

Lord Burch (most)
Soviet Russia
Max Logan
Xavior
Divine Intervention (least)

[Soviet Russia]

I can pretty much guarantee that the level of "in-correctness", in this thread, is, from most to least, as follows:

Lord Burch (most)
Soviet Russia
Max Logan
Xavior (least).

EDIT, live update: new list:

Lord Burch (most)
Soviet Russia
Max Logan
Xavior
Divine Intervention (least)

Russian

[Lord Burch]

The deleted posts are the last 2 ^

To comment on what the last post by Logan said...it was NEVER communistic. You can't associate communism with the USSR. That is what you call a stereotype! Quit swinging the word 'Communist' around. That is an inaccurate use of the word. Was there ANY reference to Communism when Lenin helped build the nation? No, there was no mention of any 'Communism' in the naming of the USSR. The name was based on the people! Soviet pride! The working spirit! Obviously you wouldn't know, your country back in the day was taken over by someone...the name sounds familiar...oh that's right, THE USSR! You have NO concept of the feelings of the citizens of Russia! I onl know them because to get my majo in history, I also am forced to take humanitarian history type classes too. So, sorry for irritating your baseless arguements...when you obviously don't know what you're talking about! Learn more about the Soviet people. Communism is a theory, nothing more. Did the people rally behind a man's words, or did they rally for the sickle and hammer? Again, the sickle and the hammer. Quit using Communism, because it just makes you look bad. Unless the people who see yours are completely stupid.

Oh, couple more things. A) I said SOLIDARITY not SOLITARY. B)You're the one who is full of it! Exactly what do you honestly know? Because to me, you're talking out of your ***.

[Max Logan]

To comment on what the last post by Logan said...it was NEVER communistic. You can't associate communism with the USSR. That is what you call a stereotype! Quit swinging the word 'Communist' around. That is an inaccurate use of the word. Was there ANY reference to Communism when Lenin helped build the nation? No, there was no mention of any 'Communism' in the naming of the USSR. The name was based on the people! Soviet pride! The working spirit! Obviously you wouldn't know, your country back in the day was taken over by someone...the name sounds familiar...oh that's right, THE USSR! You have NO concept of the feelings of the citizens of Russia! I onl know them because to get my majo in history, I also am forced to take humanitarian history type classes too. So, sorry for irritating your baseless arguements...when you obviously don't know what you're talking about! Learn more about the Soviet people. Communism is a theory, nothing more. Did the people rally behind a man's words, or did they rally for the sickle and hammer? Again, the sickle and the hammer. Quit using Communism, because it just makes you look bad. Unless the people who see yours are completely stupid.

Oh, couple more things. A) I said SOLIDARITY not SOLITARY. B)You're the one who is full of it! Exactly what do you honestly know? Because to me, you're talking out of your ***.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_and_Revolution

You can get that book at a state library.

Lenins USSR had EVERYTHING to do with Marx theory of Communism, hence why it is most cited in his every work. The idea of Communism is the basic setup of Soviet Union. I dodn`t think I have to mention that the only states party was...oh no! The Communist Party. And sickle and hammer? Ahmm, it represents the largest mass of working people - farmers and workers. As those were the most oppressed masses of the 19th and 20th century and by far the largest ones, it was only a matter of time before Marx theory would grow to popularity, especially when we know the charisma of Lenin and his both followers. And the Russian Empire situation, when the workers and farmers lived in miserable conditions, suffering from the militaristic government, it wasn`t hard to rally them under the flag of social revolution of communism. And what 'working spirit'? I like to crop farms so I`m gonna revolt and make a Farmers Union? What Soviet pride? There are no Soviet people...it`s not a nationality, not even culturally, the term only applies to post WW2 Soviet Union nations...

How can you possibly claim that Soviet Union had nothing to do with the ideology of communism? Do you even know ANYTHING about the Soviet Union and it`s founding? Do you know anything about the Russian Empire and the social unrest which plagued the Empire and eventually led it to downfal starting 19th century beginning? I don`t think you do... If you can CLAIM that communism had NOTHING to do with USSR, and call it my stereotyped opinion

Oh, I`m sorry, I see your logic, it`s not name Union of Communist Socialistic Republics! So Untied States of America are not democratic presidential republic, because it is clearly not named Democratic Presidential Republic of America!

P.S. I know you said SOLIDARITY, I`m not from English speaking country and I had to change the adverb to fit my sentence...

[Zeonic]

Pardon the "No true Scotsman" argument, but there really hasn't been any country that has followed through with the communist ideology that Marx-Engels created in the Manifesto. They managed to get part of the way, but they always, every single time, fail to get to the last step that actually creates the communist society spoken of: abolition of the state. The steps that had to be taken were for the country to trash the current leadership, replacing the elite with a "dictatorship of the proletariat". Here is where every attempt at communism has failed, leading to countries being communist only in name. The revolutionized countries, rather than become classless and moving to abolish the state, create a new elite that leads the country, thereby moving the dictatorship of the proletariat back to where they were before, a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

So, sorry, all of the countries you claim are Marxist are not Marxist. They are Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist/etc, but not Marxist. Marxism is an idea that cannot be met in the world as it is now.


And just to toss this in, the USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

[Max Logan]

Pardon the "No true Scotsman" argument, but there really hasn't been any country that has followed through with the communist ideology that Marx-Engels created in the Manifesto. They managed to get part of the way, but they always, every single time, fail to get to the last step that actually creates the communist society spoken of: abolition of the state. The steps that had to be taken were for the country to trash the current leadership, replacing the elite with a "dictatorship of the proletariat". Here is where every attempt at communism has failed, leading to countries being communist only in name. The revolutionized countries, rather than become classless and moving to abolish the state, create a new elite that leads the country, thereby moving the dictatorship of the proletariat back to where they were before, a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie.

So, sorry, all of the countries you claim are Marxist are not Marxist. They are Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist/etc, but not Marxist. Marxism is an idea that cannot be met in the world as it is now.


And just to toss this in, the USA is a constitutional republic, not a democracy.

Hence why communist countries have been labeled - good idea, bad execution.

If you want to argue 'not trully' then you can argue most anything, because all theories deal in absolutes, be that democracy, liberalisms, pluralism, ethnocentrism and so on. And I don`t think it`s ever been said that they were true communists, rather then they based their communism on Marx and Engels idea of communist state. And for all intents and purposes, USSR and the likes, were communist governments.

And just to toss it around - I said democratic not democracy, and it is constitutional republic, but more accurate, a presidential as opposed to parliamentary, as president is the highest law and executive power. And it is a type of democracy, as most western culture countries. arguing that is pointless.

[Zeonic]

Hence why communist countries have been labeled - good idea, bad execution.

If you want to argue 'not trully' then you can argue most anything, because all theories deal in absolutes, be that democracy, liberalisms, pluralism, ethnocentrism and so on. And I don`t think it`s ever been said that they were true communists, rather then they based their communism on Marx and Engels idea of communist state. And for all intents and purposes, USSR and the likes, were communist governments.

And just to toss it around - I said democratic not democracy, and it is constitutional republic, but more accurate, a presidential as opposed to parliamentary, as president is the highest law and executive power. And it is a type of democracy, as most western culture countries. arguing that is pointless.

Fair enough. I just get bugged when people claim communism has existed when it has not, at least not in the Marxist sense. There have been socialist countries that claimed to be going to Marxist communism, but they never got there. Absolute power corrupts and they stick with authoritarianism, and/or their system reverts and moves its way back out of socialism (see: China).

Fair enough, I read it as meaning democracy. And there are differences between republic and democracy (hence why I brought it up).