Communist

[Mr President]

Nation-Wars will always be won by the players who have played every set of Nation-Wars and many many sets of WoW simpily because of how complicated the game is

So new players should finish in 1st place their first set while veterans who have spent years learning the game shouldn't?

Comm Cap was in a position to come in 1st/2nd and a few mistakes led to Mr.P grabbing him for what imho was a rediculous amount of land. Unlike me however Comm Cap took the alternative route. He didnt give in to the years of un written rules of the game. And quite frankly Mr. P don't complain about the outcome of a game that you manage and have complete control over. If the manor in which he suicided you at the end of the set was in your opinion unfair than make it impossible to do.

First of all, making it so suicides are illegal is NOT and unwritten rule of the game, it IS against the rules of the game. Please refer to the tos for further proof. And for the record, I even went further then a rule, I enacted the Patriot Act which allowed roll backs to those who were suicided against. The members voted to have it removed as they felt it was no business of the admins to get involved with game issues.

I love Nation-Wars and i love its members but i too can see where Comm Cap is coming from. Its easy for you guys to make the top ten (well top 5 now) look easy because you've played NW/WoW for over/around 6,7,8 years. To a new player coming into the game he sees these unwritten rules and the simple fact of one to two mistakes a set ruins your chances of coming in first and they lose all desire to continue knowing that the more experienced member base will ALLWAYS have the advantage. And its not like there are secret tricks to be the best its just the experience that it takes to be a top 5 state and when Comm Cap saw that your experience was going to make it impossible for him to beat you out, he used is audacity that comes from a newer member not deeply ingrained by the years of unwritten rules and he used a part of the game that you designed to ruin your chances. It may have been Com Caps mistakes that led to Mr. Ps grab but it was Mr. P's grab that ruined Com Caps set. So all and all Com Cap did to you what you did to him. Dont like it, change the rules and make your unwritten rules written ones. Make a Warning for new players about triple taps and doubles in the top 10 this **** you guys come to expect out of every player and yet they had no means of understanding these rules because unless being tutored there is no one/thing to tell them these rules.
I Guess what it bottles down too is Imbalance in experience between new players and older players is what drives members away from this game and this is a perfect turtling example.

It's easy for me to make top 10? Do you ever pay attention to me playing? I have been playing since the end of 2003 and this is the first time I have ever won a set, and I have tried many times. It hardly comes easy for me. I get grabbed all the time, I was getting grabbed by Blaa early in the set as well as by Comm Cap but did I choose suicide? It has nothing to do with how the game is set up, but it has everything to do with the person playing.

Sorry max, but your last few post have been inappropriate. I don't agree to most of the things comcap did last set, but doing what you are doing is not a solution.
It is funny how people just bash me and comcap for playing so poorly last set. It almost feels like it was inevitable for us to crash and burn. Although I am not stating that we played a supertrooper set. There are a handful of excuses I could bring (why we lost to mrp), but its a funny thing with excuses - like *******s, we all have one. So I am not going to go there.
What I'm asking for is some little good sportmanships. Being told in every thread that me and comcap did an awful set is not true in my opinion. I would have finished 3rd any way (behind nhn and mrp) for sure and I don't see how that is a bad set? I did a great jump. I had more land after I did my jump than nhn had, but can't beat a casher in this case, so gratz to nhn.
So again, show some respect and stop having battles in forums.

I don't think you had a bad set at all. Actually it was very fun and competitive. I haven't payed that much attention to my state in a long long time. Thank you for making the challenge worth it. And had you come in first (legally) then I would have congratulated you in the same manner as I am now. However, Comm Caps attacks tick me off even more as you and I were having a nice competition for the top spot.

That attitude you have is exactly what im talking about Max its not the fact that being a Veteran is a bad thing. Its the attitude that you own the game and your opinions are law. If Mr. P didn't like how he got "suicided" than he should take it out of the game plain and simple.

And my lecture about unwritten rules is completely valid. You have played the game for 9 years so you know these unwritten rules. But the fact of the matter is these unwritten rules put veteran players at an advantage and until changes are made they allways will be. Further more how the game is set up currently will always cater to the more experienced player and the player that spends the most time playing and as long as that continues you will continue to lose players till only the most veteran players will be left and the game will have an unsustainable about of members.

Its things like this that attest to the very stick everyone has up their asses about how the game is "supposed to be played" Comm Cap had one goal in mind at the end of the set and that was to Ruin Mr. P's. Got a problem with it? take it out of the game its truly as simple as that.

Honestly i see no hope for this game unless changes are made that puts everone at a more even playing level so that new players dont feel overwhelmed by the sheer elaborateness of the game and the experience of its veteran members.

So each time I have an issue I should remove it from the game? That isn't very fair to everyone else... I try to be as fair as I can so people don't think I'm wrapping the game around my style of playing or anyone else's for that matter. And how can suiciding be removed from the game? You don't think Svenne tried? You don't think I tried? Heck we have been trying to figure it out for years but there really isn't much we can do. Suiciding ruined WoW! PERIOD!!! And it has had a big effect on Nation Wars as well. But I will add this, we haven't had a suicider in over a year.. Even new players to the game have respect for other players to not suicide them. Yes they love to kill and don't understand the attacking parts fully, but they have more respect for members then our veteran player CC.

I'm not going to keep this going anymore. It happened and I'm extremely disappointed in CC's actions. Someone who has worked hard at helping the game just goes off and does things like that bothers me. Basically what he was saying is, if I can't win or the person I want to win can't win, then you won't. I can see why people leave the game when suicided. I didn't put half the work into my state as others have in the past just to have it ruined by someone like that... Why would you want to stay... And you wonder why suiciders hurt the game.

Anyway, let's move on..

[CommunistCapitalism]

I think what is really what is missing from the information provided in this thread is that at the end of the set, with 540m networth, you only had 5m level 1 spies. Come on now, in the old days that so many people love to talk about here you would have gotten shot down post-haste. Shouldn't the last 5-10 days of the set be more than quick, who can build the most ships? Should you get a free pass if you leave your state undefended on the last day of the set? Just my thoughts, there is no right or wrong answer, but top states rush to cover their defenses on all of the other bases to guard themselves form being attacked, shouldn't ship-hording be looked upon in the same light as infantry-hording? All points for discussion as far as i'm concerned. If you had a better stock pile of upgraded spies this attack would have been seriously mitigated. My rule of thumb is if you don't have enough spies to protect yourself at least 90% of the incoming attacks, you are in no position to complain about the attacks because you did not prepare yourself against them. If you fail a test in a class, is it the professors fault for showing you that you had a serious gap in knowledge and giving you a bad grade, or should he/she just give you a grade you don't deserve and make sure you don't learn your lesson?

[Mrmcjoey15]

Ehhh...so everything Mr P doesn`t like he should take out of the game? i hear he doesn`t like Indy, he plays casher, so I guess we take out indy. Mr P doesn`t like it, so it has to go!


I`d expected as much from you, to support suiciders. It`s a shame really, how people like you have brought this game here. All the people who have quit only because they grew tired of being suicided. People like you who encourage suicide are as bad as the ones who suicide. Shame really. How can suicide be justified? I don`t like you, I suicide you, mwuahahaha, bite me!!! Man, you really got issues if you think it`s right! Who gives you rights to judge how I play? If you wanna suicide, get a friend who wants you to suicide him and leave the people who really try their best each month alone. How would you or ComCap like getting killed just because I wanted the state name you just got? Or if anyone either of you grabbed last set would decide to AA you and spy op you? Wanna bet you both would be here screaming about the injustice, how you got suicided!! So don`t give me that bull****, you`re just a hypocrit!


And how would you create a game where experienced players are at the same level as new players? In every game experience matters, so yeah, 6-9 years, even 3-5 will ALWAYS and SHOULD always win over 1-6 months. No offense but thinking otherwise is stupid and irrational!

Yes if you dont like someone's ideals and the way that they run their state/gov and there is a way to ruin their set then yes why the **** not?

And you must be a republican the way you take everything i say and use it in its most literal form. I don't mean everything Mr. P doesn't like he should just remove but a thing as simple as Suiciding? take the spy ops used to suicide out of the game as they are VERY seldom used for anything else or if not just make them unusable outside of war problem solved. But you people like to keep these unwritten rules where suiciding is just something you talk about being bad and unacceptable.

And again you take my words to literally i don't want a game where a first time player can come in first. But i would like and i think the community would appreciate it if the game was easier to understand where a newer player wouldn't have to worry about making that one mistake and it ruining their set. but hey that's me.

And its not like com cap had no reason to hate Mr. P if you got grabbed 17k land you would hate the person who did it too and the fact that there is a way no matter how cheap it is to get back at them you would use it and if you wouldn't your just stupid.

I don't think Suiciding is a good thing or even something that should be in the game but unlike you i don't cry about someone using a feature of the game. You all cry about suiciders but do nothing about it.

But who am i compared to the almighty veteran of 9 years Max Logan?

AND By the ****ing way i have never played a set with Com Cap nor have i ever conversated with him so its not like im sticking up for a friend or something im just not afraid to talk about the elephant in the room.

[Mr President]

im just not afraid to talk about the elephant in the room.

Are you calling me fat?

Com Cap, what is enough? Everyone knows there is no way to fully protect your state from a suicide. If I had 1k spies then I would agree with you that I deserved it, but I had OVER 6m spies.. (5m after your attacks). All your trying to do is turn the attention to somehow make this my fault that you decided the only way to beat me was to resort in the weakest spot in the game, suciding.. As I said, I'm passed it and ready to move on. I'm not even pissed anymore. I'm just a little sad that people who have played this game as long as you see someone new could possibly win the set and you do that.

What is most funny in this matter is, I grab you with a legal attack and you flip out and blow up some ships... But yet, I get to the top spot completely legit and you feel it's ok to suicide. So I can't grab you legally, but you can suicide? Which by the way is against the rules.. And not the "unwritten" rules either. Listen you have your reasons for doing what you did. I don't understand them or even respect them. I think it was a low thing to do as I would have been accepting if someone beat me out legally, but again that is me. But remember, there will be a day when you are on top working hard to keep it and someone will come along and remove you... I don't want to hear a word from you.


@ Joey,

And its not like com cap had no reason to hate Mr. P if you got grabbed 17k land you would hate the person who did it too and the fact that there is a way no matter how cheap it is to get back at them you would use it and if you wouldn't your just stupid.

Do you not think I was grabbed by him during the first few weeks of the set? So it's ok for Com Cap to LG me and take my land, but when I do it back he has the right to hate me and suicide me?

And to remove things in the game that allows suiciding would pretty much clear out the game. Perhaps we should have no war attacks and just land grab from each other all set. I'm not trying to take everything you say literally, I'm just trying to give a B side to your argument. Suiciding has plagued this game forever. People smarter than me ( and there are lots of them) have tried to find a solution to it while still keeping the game balanced and free of limitations. I have made war attacks for war time only and people didn't like it. I have made the Patriot Act that allows suicided states to be rolled back and people didn't like it. I have tried making it against the rules and people don't like it.. Without removing every single attack that harms a state how would you suggest we fix the issue? I'm all ears for a solution It all comes down to the class of people we have playing the game. There should be respect among the players that if they beat you fair and square then you either legally war them or bow down and let them take the reward they earned. If Com Cap declared war against us and killed me or hit me so bad it took me out of the top spot then so be it.. I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have still had respect for him trying to dominate the game in a legal manner. Suiciders will never have my respect as a game admin or a nation leader. You all can try to fancy this anyway you want but the point is, he resorted to suicide.. Not cause of unwritten rules, not because I didn't have enough spies and not because George W Bush beat Al Gore in the 300th recount.. It was cause he was beat fair and square and he didn't like it.. Time and time again I step back and let others take the top spots cause I feel that an admin shouldn't win his own game.. Plus most of the time I'm not able to win, but this one time I decided to let the cards fall as they may and instead of being able to enjoy the win or the feeling of achievement, I have to deal with a suiciders bullsh!t line of excuses.


Anyway, as I said it happened, it's over and it's time to move on. Revenge will come at the right time and it will be funny to see who is pointing out spies, unwritten rules, sucides ect ect at that time.

[CommunistCapitalism]

Pres you are the one pushing the blame now, I am sure most veterans would agree 6m spies unupgraded is an inadequate defense for a top state at that stage of the game. I am not that upset that someone new won the set, you didn't see me cry excessively when i had 45 turns trapped in storage at the end of the july set that prevented me from winning. If I want to see my nation do well, even if it is through nefarious means, I do not see why I am not allowed to do this, like it has been suggested, if you seriously call this suiciding, and suiciding is against the rules, why is it legal to do destructive spy ops then outside of war? Why leave them in the game if very simple coding could prevent their usage. This game is too narrow and I want to broaden my horizons and I wanted to see my nation member win the set. Also, you are already twisting your history, when you grabbed me, i blew up infantry, not ships. I feel I have been perfectly reasonable and no amount of personal insults, profanity, or nonsensical trolling by max logan can change my way of thinking. I do personally appreciate your level tone, even if I don't agree with you, it is refreshing that you at least can make a point without hitting the caps lock or cussing like a drunken sailor.

ComCap

[MAGGIO]

I don't think individual scores should count so much in a team based game. They should count but not so much. The players that are overly obsessed with their own stats are typically the ones who complain the most about this stuff. Since when is there a "I" in nation-wars. I move to request all individual acts receive no reward or recognition moving foward and only nation accomplishments be rewarded.

[Nat22]

Since when is there a "I" in nation-wars..

psst it's after the "T" Maggio!

[Calvin74]

Pres you are the one pushing the blame now, I am sure most veterans would agree 6m spies unupgraded is an inadequate defense for a top state at that stage of the game. I am not that upset that someone new won the set, you didn't see me cry excessively when i had 45 turns trapped in storage at the end of the july set that prevented me from winning. If I want to see my nation do well, even if it is through nefarious means, I do not see why I am not allowed to do this, like it has been suggested, if you seriously call this suiciding, and suiciding is against the rules, why is it legal to do destructive spy ops then outside of war? Why leave them in the game if very simple coding could prevent their usage. This game is too narrow and I want to broaden my horizons and I wanted to see my nation member win the set. Also, you are already twisting your history, when you grabbed me, i blew up infantry, not ships. I feel I have been perfectly reasonable and no amount of personal insults, profanity, or nonsensical trolling by max logan can change my way of thinking. I do personally appreciate your level tone, even if I don't agree with you, it is refreshing that you at least can make a point without hitting the caps lock or cussing like a drunken sailor.

ComCap

i actually think 6m spies is sufficient for the end of the set. especially with the spy random factor it doesn't make much sense to go any higher really...

other than that i enjoy seeing a lot of activity here
although I think you should still have H and fight your war over it even if you are vastly out numbered.

[CommunistCapitalism]

yeah i couldn't though i am in college, blaa is in estonia, and nobody but bright would give a thoughtful response to my pms despite my pleading and prodding. its ok, i realizaed i wasn't that good of a leader and was dissapointed in the set as a whole for my nation after the first set where we had a number of active participators in the nation discussion. I wouldn't have minded fighting and dying but it would have been just foolish looking if I tried to fight a war nobody else besides bright wanted to fight (and possible jeff capes?).

[Max Logan]

Pres you are the one pushing the blame now, I am sure most veterans would agree 6m spies unupgraded is an inadequate defense for a top state at that stage of the game. I am not that upset that someone new won the set, you didn't see me cry excessively when i had 45 turns trapped in storage at the end of the july set that prevented me from winning. If I want to see my nation do well, even if it is through nefarious means, I do not see why I am not allowed to do this, like it has been suggested, if you seriously call this suiciding, and suiciding is against the rules, why is it legal to do destructive spy ops then outside of war? Why leave them in the game if very simple coding could prevent their usage. This game is too narrow and I want to broaden my horizons and I wanted to see my nation member win the set. Also, you are already twisting your history, when you grabbed me, i blew up infantry, not ships. I feel I have been perfectly reasonable and no amount of personal insults, profanity, or nonsensical trolling by max logan can change my way of thinking. I do personally appreciate your level tone, even if I don't agree with you, it is refreshing that you at least can make a point without hitting the caps lock or cussing like a drunken sailor.

ComCap

You make perfectly reasonable sense, you coward weak *** wannbe suicider!!!