DEAD vs ICN

[ccsports77]

Before I talk about anything else, I would like to say that I believe the point of this game is to relax, have fun, and even get a chance to socialize. Based on what I've seen in this forum, things are getting way to serious xP

In my opinion, DEAD's reason for war is a good enough one. We all agree in some way that infantry hoarding is an "issue" of sorts, but in all honesty, I do not think it's solvable. Based on the math and the mechanics of this game, infantry hoarding has a huge advantage. But what can you do? Decrease power? Increase costs? Doing so to a certain point will make one unit "better" than infantry. But then what happens? People will start to hoard THAT kind of military.

Try comparing this gameplay to the real world for a moment. How does a company get ahead of another? You have to specialize at first as opposed to try to cover all parts of a market, which is where infantry hoarding comes in. Once you are in decent placement in the market, that's when you can start broadening your scope to other aspects. There are one of two ways beat a specialized market (hoarding); 1 is to perform better in specializing (be better at hoarding ). Therefore, being good at hoarding is essential for early success.

However, adaptation is also necessary for success. The other way of beating hoarding is to focus on a different market. Since the hoarders are too focused on one thing, you can use another to beat them down, which is where the Jets, Bombers, Ships... ARs BRs AAs come in. Warring is necessary for this game because it's the only way to stop a good hoarding strat/gameplay. It's the best and only way, in my opinion, of countering this hoarding issue. The problem is that the Nation Wars player base is too small and we don't have enough warring Nations as we did in the earlier/World-of-War days. Fear of war and suiciders is actually the only reason people get other units (besides, arguably, ships for networth).

Truth be told, to be the best of the best in this game requires a lot of time. Being on when SA's disappear cause of the 36 hour incriment is huge for bigger land grabs, since an extra 30% land difference per hit is significant. Understanding the minor mechanics of the game and having the time and commitment is what results in a top spot in this game. Yes, hoarding is a frowned upon strat, but there is a difference between a smart hoarding good player, and just a plain one.

Sorry for the blabbering post, but that's just my view on both sides being argued in this thread. Both ICN and DEAD are playing a key part in keeping this game balanced. Hoarding is necessary to do well, and warring is a means of countering it. Let's be frank here; wars spice up the game, and the name of this game was world-of-WAR and is now nation WARS. It's just unfortunate that our nation got caught off guard this set and are getting pwned, but hey, it happens. We won last set. Guess domination does lead to war

[::LD::GrimReapr]

You are missing the entire point.
the object is not to be top 20. the object is to be number one.
To do so, as many have for many rounds is by troops.

it is quite apperent that the tag DEAD cannot accomlish that, so they have chosen to be basically suiciders instead.
Now the way I see it, you are declaring not just on ICN, but basically any tag that reaches for the top.

i would think there should be other tags declaring on you and again wiping you out.
not much sense in just waiting for you to move to another tag on your timeframe is there?

And Baa i agree, we can also play their game
Dead can be our farmland for future rounds and we can jjust protct our m8s that want to do the casher thing

1). You and Blaa can agree all you want you want to make your your farmland then you wont be building an infantry hoarding state to do it or youll get AA'd again in which case i win if you dont infantry hoard to make me your farmland I win cause your not hoarding.
2). In my past experience nobody gets involved with war that doesnt affect them directly unless your name is Hoebawt or Anton.
3. You are right the object of the game is to be #1 without DEAD warring LOR last set you would not have finished number #1 you said it yourself in a message to me or have you forgotten?

[::LD::GrimReapr]

Thank you ccsports77 someone else that actually understands whats goin on and what Rass is trying to say. Now for Hoebawt let me explain something to you so you dont have the wrong idea. Rass my little brother had nothing to do with declaring war I was the one that decided what we DEAD were doing with the help of a couple friends and a mexican named Pedrow Done you have a rock to crawl back underneath and go back into vacation mode till Anton can come save you again?

[::LD::GrimReapr]

Don't get me wrong. I don't mind if DEAD is able to force a new 'unwritten' rule - no infantry hoarding - but, what I would like to see from DEAD:
- Please explain your actions more clearly. So far I haven't understood why exactly are you doing that. Maybe you should define what is hoarding some unit. Is it having 75% of one unit out of all. Is that 75% networth based, is it strength based.

It seems so vague and confusing at the moment. Look at the current unwritten rules. I'm sure there were people against the grabbing rules as well (1 in top10, 2 outside), but it was forced. People still sometimes break it - accidents usually. But the rule itself is clear, you can't misunderstand it.

In all honesty, I believe 'balanced' state will never become a rule. I do believe your time and effort could be used somewhere else. There have been people attacking other states because of this reason before.

You wanted to show me a thing or two about the game since i dont understand the math why dont you use that giant head of yours and thing about it for a moment if it still confuses you message me and ill explain it in simplier details for you slower folk.

[Rassputtin]

You are missing the entire point.
the object is not to be top 20. the object is to be number one.
To do so, as many have for many rounds is by troops.

it is quite apperent that the tag DEAD cannot accomlish that, so they have chosen to be basically suiciders instead.
Now the way I see it, you are declaring not just on ICN, but basically any tag that reaches for the top.

i would think there should be other tags declaring on you and again wiping you out.
not much sense in just waiting for you to move to another tag on your timeframe is there?

And Baa i agree, we can also play their game
Dead can be our farmland for future rounds and we can jjust protct our m8s that want to do the casher thing

Yes your right, I don't get it. This is my first set. You F'in idiots keep tossing around the "suicider" term and not one DEAD state has died. Did the networth of the states you kill stop being added to the networth of a nation. I've been gone awhile. If the NW is still added to nations then killing people is a viable way for a nation to finish first.

Rass Your Ignorance is Bliss.. im not at war with anyone..and i never inf hoard... and your reason behind this war is weak... trust me i know of weak reasons for war.... How about all the inf hoarders just take you out since you are so against them.... So perhaps i sit here and laugh at you since you clearly have no idea of wats going on

Your right Hoe, I cower at your intellect and savvy. I have no idea whats going on. You go ahead and rally the infantry hoarders.

so you let us off this time because you hit us last set.. does it mean ICN can infantry hoard all they want next set?

I never said I was playing or even in DEAD. But, as stated before DEAD does not have the resources to kill all infantry hoarders. I'm sure if they did and you were hoarding infantry, yes they would kill you. Do I speak for them? No certainly not but I can guess with a high degree of accuracy in this instance. Everyone is free to infantry hoard all they want any set. They are aware of the consequences of having a defensless state.

yea Rass's view on things are very rash... SO does that mean that ICN is off the hook next set and LOR is the target? of for that matter another nation that makes a run for 1st is?

I don't speak for DEAD but you should be able to wrap your head around it. Its not about LOR or ICN, its about infantry hoarding so, regardless of your tag if your hoarding infantry you may be targeted by DEAD.

I will never use a strategy that is not the most reasonable. So the answer to your question: It takes infinite amount of sets to kill me for me to drop inf hoarding.

Actually, I start infantry hoarding, and in the end of the set I ship hoard. Maybe I should buy infantry at the end of the set too? Or you don't have a problem with ship hoarding in the end?

I know thats why I said "never right". You wont change unless the programming makes it no viable, or enough people in the game make it not viable. Since DEAD can't rewrite the code, what is their other option. What I have a problem with is not why you or anyone else was killed. Im not running DEAD.

Originally Posted by rass
How many sets must you be killed or maimed while hoarding infantry before you decide that you should not have a defenseless state and run more balanced units. The answer is never right, because you can't compete for first without hoarding while others are hoarding. So what will you do? Continue to hoard and hope that your not chosen as the hoarder to be killed..... or run a more balanced state and hope the hoarders are killed and your moved up the list, or join the anti hoarders and kill the hoarders. Yes, yes your thinking you want to build a state to pay DEAD back for this atrocity. Your thinking you'll build a state that will be able to hurt or kill them. Well guess what. If you build a state to kill other states then you aren't infantry hoarding are you? So build a war state... if so then DEAD's mission is successful.


you sound like a dictator telling ppl how to build their state or else you will kill them... Rass you no good at netting (why your doing wat your doing now) and ur def no good at warring( most of icn is still alive).... fall back to the shadows where you belong...

How many sets must you play before you realize that a balance state isnt viable to win First place in this game.. its not the hoarders fault and its not the Programmers fault.... its the way the game is... Im tired of hearing of inf hoarding.. its a strat in the game... let ICN do it if they want.. Just like you can war them if u want for w.e reason u want.... just trying to make your point like its the only way to do it is bs... your not gonan change anything.. your not gonna change their gameplay... **** they prob wont even retal you for this and your just gonna end up giving up on this hopeless and pathetic war.... You wanna do something for NW go and recruit some ppl.. go and teach a few noobs to play the game the way you feel.... stop being a jerkoff

Yes Hoe I sound like a dictator because I reiterated what he said about building a war state to attack DEAD and told him it would accomplish DEADS mission of him not hoarding. Do you think when your typing or just picture cookies in your head while your fingers move on the keyboard. You waste my time with your banter that doesnt even make sense. Me reiterating what someone else says does not imply I am dicating to them how they should act. Half of ICN is dead no DEAD state are dead. I guess your measure of success at war is how many states you can get to cower in vacation mode before dying. yes by that account HOE I'm a terrible warrer because I don't hide in vacation mode.

The way the game is, is based on the programming and community mind set. Hoe climb down from the trees and reread that a few times until you get it.

I'm not spearheading thsi infantry hoarding war. I didnt play last set and attack LOR, I"m not running DEAD. My "state" this set if thats what you want to call it has already lost several hundred turns.

I'm defending the position of DEAD I am not speaking for them. Because I really don't care. Thats why I am in the shadows thats why I dont play, thats why I'm not going to recruit players to game. I view the game as broken. I like most of the community and the potential i see in the game, but I am unable to care about a game where I lose money for failing an attack before i pay to use the turns to attack, and where the units interact so unrealistically it doesn't even make sense. There is nothing that I "can do" to help nation wars. I've already tried everything I can.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mind if DEAD is able to force a new 'unwritten' rule - no infantry hoarding - but, what I would like to see from DEAD:
- Please explain your actions more clearly. So far I haven't understood why exactly are you doing that. Maybe you should define what is hoarding some unit. Is it having 75% of one unit out of all. Is that 75% networth based, is it strength based.

It seems so vague and confusing at the moment. Look at the current unwritten rules. I'm sure there were people against the grabbing rules as well (1 in top10, 2 outside), but it was forced. People still sometimes break it - accidents usually. But the rule itself is clear, you can't misunderstand it.

In all honesty, I believe 'balanced' state will never become a rule. I do believe your time and effort could be used somewhere else. There have been people attacking other states because of this reason before.

Those are legit questions and the ones that should be asked. I sincerely hope that the leader of DEAD answers them for you and makes his intentions and views more concrete for the community to understand his position.

In all honesty I agree with you and beleive also that a balanced state will never become a rule. The only way to prevent is is to change the game. When it is capable and effecient according to the programming, people will do it. If one person does it, the others who want to compete will also do it. Eventually everyone will. THe only other way besides programming is to have a force big enough to make people fear being killed. I personally don't think such a force will ever materialize. But thats just me, and I'm ignorant and have no clue whats going on or how anything works. Just ask Hoebawt.

[Rassputtin]

Before I talk about anything else, I would like to say that I believe the point of this game is to relax, have fun, and even get a chance to socialize. Based on what I've seen in this forum, things are getting way to serious xP

In my opinion, DEAD's reason for war is a good enough one. We all agree in some way that infantry hoarding is an "issue" of sorts, but in all honesty, I do not think it's solvable. Based on the math and the mechanics of this game, infantry hoarding has a huge advantage. But what can you do? Decrease power? Increase costs? Doing so to a certain point will make one unit "better" than infantry. But then what happens? People will start to hoard THAT kind of military.

Try comparing this gameplay to the real world for a moment. How does a company get ahead of another? You have to specialize at first as opposed to try to cover all parts of a market, which is where infantry hoarding comes in. Once you are in decent placement in the market, that's when you can start broadening your scope to other aspects. There are one of two ways beat a specialized market (hoarding); 1 is to perform better in specializing (be better at hoarding ). Therefore, being good at hoarding is essential for early success.

However, adaptation is also necessary for success. The other way of beating hoarding is to focus on a different market. Since the hoarders are too focused on one thing, you can use another to beat them down, which is where the Jets, Bombers, Ships... ARs BRs AAs come in. Warring is necessary for this game because it's the only way to stop a good hoarding strat/gameplay. It's the best and only way, in my opinion, of countering this hoarding issue. The problem is that the Nation Wars player base is too small and we don't have enough warring Nations as we did in the earlier/World-of-War days. Fear of war and suiciders is actually the only reason people get other units (besides, arguably, ships for networth).

Truth be told, to be the best of the best in this game requires a lot of time. Being on when SA's disappear cause of the 36 hour incriment is huge for bigger land grabs, since an extra 30% land difference per hit is significant. Understanding the minor mechanics of the game and having the time and commitment is what results in a top spot in this game. Yes, hoarding is a frowned upon strat, but there is a difference between a smart hoarding good player, and just a plain one.

Sorry for the blabbering post, but that's just my view on both sides being argued in this thread. Both ICN and DEAD are playing a key part in keeping this game balanced. Hoarding is necessary to do well, and warring is a means of countering it. Let's be frank here; wars spice up the game, and the name of this game was world-of-WAR and is now nation WARS. It's just unfortunate that our nation got caught off guard this set and are getting pwned, but hey, it happens. We won last set. Guess domination does lead to war

CC, you could prevent infantry hoarding from being viable by making the way the units ineract in warfare more complex... for example, make it so infantry do not affect/defend jets, ships, bombers, missles in a standard attack.

[ccsports77]

The only way of making that even an option is by adding another variable into the game code, which would have to be one unit's affectiveness military power wise vs another unit (like a percentage of current military power for each unit). That would take forever to "balance."

[Rassputtin]

You don't need another variable. Not that im opposed to that but you could simply itemize the attacks based on the units. Its computer programming you can do anything you want to do. You could have a more complex sequence instead of more viariables. Ground versus ground, air versus air, ships versus ships, 2 out of 3 areas wins the engagement. Just one of many methods that could be used.

[blaa]

I agree. If you'd want to make the game realistic (or whatever the **** you guys want with your drama) you'd have to pretty much create a new game. Maybe talk with mr.p, perhaps he agrees to open a new game server?

Some more questions... You said you warred lor last set for whoring, and this set you warred us. Okay, fair enough.
But, please go to lor vs dead war thread and you can pretty clearly read that DEAD started the war because they thought lor was feeding. (here is the thread http://forums.nation-wars.com/showth...-Had-it-coming! ). But they werent.

So, what I'm saying: you guys make too many mistakes, so i can't take you guys seriously.

[ccsports77]

But that encourages specializing to an extent, because if you go across more units, you wouldn't be able to win any of those matchups.