Nation Wars Redemption V2.0

[DBozMen]

I'm in!

And great changes Mr. P!

But I wonder now you changed the prices. The BM prices of ships compared to the networth they gave they are cheaper in the current game then buying infantry near the end of the set. But if you lowered the prices of ships, shouldn't you lower their networth aswell?

Gr,

Dennis

[Scav]

let me digest this for a bit...

SA = gone
GA will now take land but no buildings (a weakened SA basicly)
AR/BR still destroys land like it is atm.
Spy kill will not only kill the state, but add the land to your state?

will GA get you more land than SA did (say SA got you 100 land and 50 buildings, will GA get you 100 land or boosted towards 150?)
On the other hand you state that GB prot is gone. so repeated hitting on 1 state will keep giving you a decent percentage of land regardless if someone has been hit 10, 20 or 100 times allready. Basicly, if a state is bigger than you you will allways have good gains.

I expect jets / bombers to lose most of their value as their is little point in bombing the land to pieces if you can gain it through GA. the lowering of rdy doesn't remedy this as ships are still 2,5x stronger in dropping rdy'ness. not to mention ships still seem to take out inf / tanks as well. so the focus will likely shift a bit to earlier hoarding of ships, apart from hoarding inf.

It might be wise to change the effect of AR/BR runs by adding damage to inf/tanks or all units if succesfull in order to keep jets/bombers a viable unit.

[BB]

This should be ineresting

[Hedge]

intresting

[MellonColly]

We still need to do something for techer though. It's not a viable strat in the last ~5 days of the set because most nations have tech maxed or close to max and a .01 percent change in tech isn't worth it. The changes will help a bit but I still see this problem with it.

[Mr President]

just to clarify do you gain anything from an air attack?

The air attacks destroys building and population. You do not gain the buildings you destroy (although this may change as it might be cool) but you can kill a state using this attack.

Mr P, what do you excactly mean by "all of the GB formula has been removed"?

There is no land grab formula like before so there is no GB protection formula needed. Basically when you GA a state it will be just like now when you BR a state. You will gain a small portion of land. The amount drops like it does in BR now but it does not count the amount of times you have been hit.

I'm in! And great changes Mr. P! But I wonder now you changed the prices. The BM prices of ships compared to the networth they gave they are cheaper in the current game then buying infantry near the end of the set. But if you lowered the prices of ships, shouldn't you lower their networth aswell? Gr, Dennis

I was going to lower networths but I wanted to give it a try as is. I'm certain we will have to tweak some which is why I'm calling the december set a "test" set. My thought is, lower the price, keep the net and hope that other units are used more often.

let me digest this for a bit... SA = gone GA will now take land but no buildings (a weakened SA basicly) AR/BR still destroys land like it is atm. Spy kill will not only kill the state, but add the land to your state? will GA get you more land than SA did (say SA got you 100 land and 50 buildings, will GA get you 100 land or boosted towards 150?) On the other hand you state that GB prot is gone. so repeated hitting on 1 state will keep giving you a decent percentage of land regardless if someone has been hit 10, 20 or 100 times allready. Basicly, if a state is bigger than you you will allways have good gains. I expect jets / bombers to lose most of their value as their is little point in bombing the land to pieces if you can gain it through GA. the lowering of rdy doesn't remedy this as ships are still 2,5x stronger in dropping rdy'ness. not to mention ships still seem to take out inf / tanks as well. so the focus will likely shift a bit to earlier hoarding of ships, apart from hoarding inf. It might be wise to change the effect of AR/BR runs by adding damage to inf/tanks or all units if succesfull in order to keep jets/bombers a viable unit.

Yes SA is gone and yea you could say that the GA is a weakened SA except, it's a much weaker SA. The AR will only destroy buildings and pop. It will not add the land/buildings or pop to your state like the GA will. No you will not get more land in GA then you did with the current SA. We have removed land grabbing and made it so if you want the land then you either need to explore for it, war for it or be sneaky and invade with the hopes of not being caught. Having the Air Attack destroy inf/tanks isn't a bad idea. We'll make changes as needed but we need a place to start.

We still need to do something for techer though. It's not a viable strat in the last ~5 days of the set because most nations have tech maxed or close to max and a .01 percent change in tech isn't worth it. The changes will help a bit but I still see this problem with it.

Agreed and I have some ideas for the near future to help this. To early to go into it now though.

[SkyCat]

omg those changes are retarded, sorry but atm best grabber (or sometimes also a warrior) wins, but with this new stats everyone has same expand-expand-expand (go stocking?) or make war and start taking land - and got killed(?)! also under what formula you take land with ga? like with air attack atm? this dont give you not much land but rape you and your enemy army if you actually wanna get some ok amound of land... anyway this is not much! grabbing, waiting for grabs to drop etc are been one of them main things in this game atm that dif avg and best players.... howeve i like that idea that land will be conquired not destroied - when you go for kill!!!

with those changes i cant actually see that skill can win, but something between luck/politics(/stocking)/whatever else, and game has been winned with 3 days? this game is 50b bank nowdays (i think) it should be like stockers dream (and if nobody dont know how to stock then sorry!),

there was also pointed out about science issues i agree that there should be some way how there would be still need after science in the end of set, like sciences will be used in dev center (-5% per day, per turns used, some turns used/total mambo jambo ... whatever....) so there would be need after new science even last day in set....

if local time would not be 4am (and im so tired after reading 40 pages some science text in english and writing review about it for university) i would log in and delete my state as i just started to remeber how fun this game can be and im still remebering quite ok how to play while there some new things (like missiles and something was more i think)

[Top12Gun]

I actually agree with quite a bit that SkyCat has said. There needs to be some kind of attack that yields a worthwhile amount of land, otherwise all that will be accomplished by this will be expanding being the primary method of gaining land (which would completely circumvent all the measures taken to increase wars.) There needs to be some clear advantage to attacking for land, vs. expanding, or it simply won't happen.

This does also level the playing field in a way I don't like. I remember the first set I played, I joined Sky. And something I noticed over the next couple sets was that Kris was online more than anyone else, waiting for grabs, and investing time in the game. I think there should be incentive to spend more time than 20 minutes a day expanding and buying/selling. As I see it, any reason to spend more time online like Kris vs. bums like me who spent maybe 20 minutes a day goes out the window, at least partially, along with the GB formulae. Come up with a way for one's place to be more commensurate to time spent or risk losing top players who don't like scrubs like me competing with little to no work.

[Scav]

exapanding will be an issue. Especially early on expanding will net you ~150-200 land in 5 turns while a GA if the formula is anyway similar to BR/AR will get you ~25 land in the same 5 turns. yes you could declare war out of the starting blocks, but even at ~25 land in 2 turns expanding will be more powerfull.
Even at 2k land, a BR style GA attack will only get you 28 land on avarage per 5 turns. the point where GA approach the gains of exploring = 9k land (9k * 1.4% = ~ 126 land per 5 turns)

there are a number of options to change this :

1) increase GA gains
2) lower turns for GA
3) lower land on expanding
4) make GA gains / Expanding gains dependant on either own size or time in set
5) put a max expansion cap in place for the server (will hurt late starters)
6) put a max expansion cap in place per state
7) start with a lot more land

[Divine Intervention]

Scav is right....the whole element of being a skilled land grabber which differentiates the winners from the rest is gone. No one wins with 3 days into set. Thats what too early to jump. If someone wins after 3 days its simply because no one else is bothering. Person whos #1 on day 3 is the person who will be giving the skilled netter his 3-4k land grab when he jumps....