Anti-Intellectual Atheism

[SmarT]

it does say u shall not worship other gods... so that must mean they are real, now the idol thing, that is different. if you believe this said object *keyboard* is a god and u worship it then that is an idol. now if you have a figure or representative of your god, and u pay homage to it, that is not an idol imo. since it is a linkage to your god, it helps u form the image in your mind and give u something to focus on, since u are not praying to the statue but what it represents. like a country's flag, take America's flag, we all know its ours, but to us Americans it has much much deeper meaning. their is also a passage in genius that states

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

my source
http://www.bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp


also in the original Hebrew, god has 10 names, some neutered, some masculine, and some female.

also in the nt, when jesus rose, the said that everyone coast to coast heard that the great god "pan" is dead. pan was only a minor god during that time and it wasnt until later after jesus, some years atleast 50+ that pan rose to a station as a major popularity (even though he was well known for hundreds of years) (this view on pan is from greek pantheon, which i personally follow and he is considered a minor god still)

another thing of interest off that specific topic, the catholics built alot of their churches on old pagan temples and power sites (places of very raw and powerful energy)

[pron]

it does say u shall not worship other gods... so that must mean they are real, now the idol thing, that is different. if you believe this said object *keyboard* is a god and u worship it then that is an idol. now if you have a figure or representative of your god, and u pay homage to it, that is not an idol imo. since it is a linkage to your god, it helps u form the image in your mind and give u something to focus on, since u are not praying to the statue but what it represents. like a country's flag, take America's flag, we all know its ours, but to us Americans it has much much deeper meaning. their is also a passage in genius that states

True. Kinda late, and I didn't explain the subtleties of Idol vs god. Good explanation though.

I think Judaism might have been the first religion to practice a religion without objects of worship though--ie Idols. I might be mistaken on that one. However, Jewish and Christian culture has clearly stated that there should be no worship of other gods.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

my source
http://www.bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp

Why this quote?

also in the original Hebrew, god has 10 names, some neutered, some masculine, and some female.

I seem to remember 3 proper names, and then they added attachments to the main name to designate specific aspects of God.

YHWH--wasn't to be used verbally.
Adonai--to be used in place of YHWH verbally.
Elohim--was used to designate God, and gods.
Then things like "Adonai Rapha" would pop up and designate "God of Healing". Or possibly "Elohim Rapha". Although, I haven't read the Hebrew bible from front to back yet.

Is that where the 10 are coming from?

also in the nt, when jesus rose, the said that everyone coast to coast heard that the great god "pan" is dead. pan was only a minor god during that time and it wasnt until later after jesus, some years atleast 50+ that pan rose to a station as a major popularity (even though he was well known for hundreds of years) (this view on pan is from greek pantheon, which i personally follow and he is considered a minor god still)

Got a reference to this in the Bible? I'm curious to look into it.

another thing of interest off that specific topic, the catholics built alot of their churches on old pagan temples and power sites (places of very raw and powerful energy)

True. The Catholics weren't very tolerant of other's religions and wanted to show dominance over other religions.

I'm not Catholic btw.

[SmarT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

my source
http://www.bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp
Why this quote?

because i wanted to back up about there being other gods.

i cant fidn where it says pan is dead in the bible, its during the time frame of jesus rising in one of the gospels i believe

ok names of god in the bible...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism

scroll down

http://www.templesanjose.org/Judaism...mes_of_God.htm

http://www.bibletexts.com/glossary/names-of-god-ot.htm

iam tired otherwise i would do some more digging, cant find exactly what i am looking for

[nosejam]

Ok I've ben busy recently so couldn't reply, I'm not gonna quote as I'm usre you all remember what you posted.

Jason, you say morality is intrinsically put in humans by God, this isn't true.

First off, did God also put this morality in animals as animal culture often is made up of "morals"? If so why aren't they treated as equals? If he didn't how do they have morals? Lets say that humans evolved as some in this thread have said the creation story isn't true, at what point in their evolution did God decide to give them morality?

Also humans really aren't moral at all, most of them are only kept in line becuase something bad will happen to them if they break the law, this isn't the fear that God will smite them, because he forgives everyone if they believe in him (This is how I interpret the Jesus dying for our sins bit, I may be wrong but that's how its always been conveyed to me. There may be conditions to this, do you have to try and lead a good life AND believe in him for all your sins to be absolved? So if you went round killing people beacuse you thought it was for the benefit of humanity you'd be let off?)

They are kept in line by the fear of going to prison, but even so our prisons are full to bursting, where was their inbuilt morality??

Really morals is just what we refer to things which we should live by because they help the species survive. Don't kill... we'll lose a possible mate to continue the species and may result in revenge killings which could escalate. Don't commit adultery... You'll annoy someone and they may kill you.

In essence, my argument for believing in atheism, is because I don't believe the alternative. I've said this before and it got argued against, saying its just as irrational. But it's not, just because we don't know what happened at the beginning of the universe doesn't mean god made it happen. Its the lack of proof for God which makes the belief in that unrealistic. The default position when you're born is that there is no God, then someone tells you that there is one, to which you reply oh wow where can I see what he's done? A book, he wrote a book? Oh, he didn't write the book? Some normal people wrote it? And I'm supposed to do everything this tells me and give money to the church? Ah right, that all makes sense now...

Its practically impossible to disprove God, if we did find out that the Universe has existed forever you'd just say that well this is where God has lived forever. What would you see as proof that there is no God?

[Max Logan]

and a proof that there is God?

[-Z-]

and a proof that there is God?

God only lives in the minds of the insecure and uncultured.


The fact that many animals are by far much more moral forms of life than humans, will be lost to these ignorant types of people.

If fact U cant even call it ignorance, because it's not that they do not try to understand, or are not open to it. These types of religious fanatics are programmed to think the way they do, and can not comprehend ceratin aspects of reality that the rest of us take for granted.

Perhaps somthing happened to them in their life that they associated with "god" and then they believed this to be true, and for months and years...

u see where I am going (the rational among us do I am sure)

so this one fact concerning animals, will be meaningless, believers in "god" will find a way to shrug it off. They will not even need to convince themsleves that it is not true, because their personal logic denies it.


they have come to an agreement to live this illusion, as if it matters.

There is nothing wrong with it as long as U are not hurting others... In fact this illusion of god can be a good thing, as it may help compensate for some weak points in a persona.

Z

[Max Logan]

As far as it goes in arguments about God existance, the common evidence is Bible. And vice verse. Its false argumentation and irrational logic!

Although, what can you expect from mindless zombies

[Minimus]

You practically answered your own question:

Question:

Although, what can you expect from mindless zombies?

Answer:

As far as it goes in arguments about God existance, the common evidence is Bible. And vice verse. Its false argumentation and irrational logic!

Hooray!

[jasonlfunk]

As far as it goes in arguments about God existance, the common evidence is Bible. And vice verse. Its false argumentation and irrational logic!

Although, what can you expect from mindless zombies

There are many many non-biblical arguments for the existence of God, and probably 10 or so that I think are valid and true. I plan on giving some lectures on campus this semester explaining 5 of them. Pretty soon here I will being prepping for them and will post the essay version of my lectures.

Also - please stop with the personal attacks. They are getting tedious.

[jasonlfunk]

Ok I've ben busy recently so couldn't reply, I'm not gonna quote as I'm usre you all remember what you posted.

Jason, you say morality is intrinsically put in humans by God, this isn't true.

First off, did God also put this morality in animals as animal culture often is made up of "morals"? If so why aren't they treated as equals? If he didn't how do they have morals? Lets say that humans evolved as some in this thread have said the creation story isn't true, at what point in their evolution did God decide to give them morality?

Can you give examples of this morality in Animal culture?

Also humans really aren't moral at all, most of them are only kept in line becuase something bad will happen to them if they break the law, this isn't the fear that God will smite them, because he forgives everyone if they believe in him (This is how I interpret the Jesus dying for our sins bit, I may be wrong but that's how its always been conveyed to me. There may be conditions to this, do you have to try and lead a good life AND believe in him for all your sins to be absolved? So if you went round killing people beacuse you thought it was for the benefit of humanity you'd be let off?)

God giving humans iniate knowledge of morality does not mean that they follow it. They just know when they break it.

You are close in your understanding of Jesus' death. It's basically acknowledging that on your own effort, you cannot be perfect, and that it is only through an act of God that you can be restored to him. Jesus' death on the cross, however it accomplished it, was the act that God used to restore humans back to himself. The only way to be rescued from your sins is to give up trying yourself, and fall into the open arms of God.

They are kept in line by the fear of going to prison, but even so our prisons are full to bursting, where was their inbuilt morality??

We are talking about moral knowledge - people know they are doing wrong when they break laws and go to jail.

Really morals is just what we refer to things which we should live by because they help the species survive. Don't kill... we'll lose a possible mate to continue the species and may result in revenge killings which could escalate. Don't commit adultery... You'll annoy someone and they may kill you.

So the reason people don't cheat on their wives is because you'll annoy her? Hm. No - I don't think so.

In essence, my argument for believing in atheism, is because I don't believe the alternative. I've said this before and it got argued against, saying its just as irrational. But it's not, just because we don't know what happened at the beginning of the universe doesn't mean god made it happen. Its the lack of proof for God which makes the belief in that unrealistic. The default position when you're born is that there is no God, then someone tells you that there is one, to which you reply oh wow where can I see what he's done? A book, he wrote a book? Oh, he didn't write the book? Some normal people wrote it? And I'm supposed to do everything this tells me and give money to the church? Ah right, that all makes sense now...

Its practically impossible to disprove God, if we did find out that the Universe has existed forever you'd just say that well this is where God has lived forever. What would you see as proof that there is no God?

While I disagree with you that people are born atheists (I'd like to see your reasons for thinking this though), I think that the burden of proof does lie with the theist from an intellectual standpoint. Your position, while wrong, is a rational one.