Retaliation Grievance Thread

[Disorder]

--the fact that you don't know what you're talking about is worth enough.

Is my name pink? Is my state pink? Has my state been deleted? Yea--I'm a real big cheater. You keep talking kiddo.

Kiddo? That just shows how much you know, you should be calling me your Daddy! Lets take this up in the game.. I will have your state posted in my kill book at least once this set!

And as for the little pink thingy.. ask your leaders about that, im sure at least one of them can admit to that one.

[pron]

Kiddo? That just shows how much you know, you should be calling me your Daddy! Lets take this up in the game.. I will have your state posted in my kill book at least once this set!

And as for the little pink thingy.. ask your leaders about that, im sure at least one of them can admit to that one.

If you claim old age, you should probably act like it. Your online persona is childish.

Let's take this up in game?? Ok--

Name: Disorder(#8)[SLOB] *DEAD*
Rank: 0
Networth: $332.346
Land: 120

Name: pron(#69)[LoR]
Rank: 22
Networth: $4.032.466
Land: 5.092

Got anything else kiddo?

[MAGGIO]

its worthless to even argue, we wont see each others points of view valid.

You say its ok to bend the rules (see "Shady"), I say its not.

You say LOR is winning, (see NW Killed), I say its not (see members vs members and turns vs turns).

I think we are the more honorable nation, but some how you think LOR is a better nation in this instance? No big deal.

You PM Mr. P (owner) for 12-24hrs, dont get a reply fast enough so you come and complain and make a very weak argument (IMO) about specific words being in a specific place. You think hes wrong, I think your impatient. You must have thought you were the only one PMing him or something.

LOR pulled some BS move and it didnt fly with Mr. P. Get over it.

I was just calling you a cheater to get a rise out of you. Its just a game and we should all take it as such. My point was that your making too big a deal out of it. In the end LOR will kill all of SLOB which is expected, and is what we expected.

I am claiming a victory even if its personal because I think we did a lot better than anyone expected including LOR. We didnt want to be pushed around, we wanted to show we have talent and valor. I think we accomplished that, so in my mind we have completed the goals we have set out to complete, and in my mind we did a better job than anyone expected.

LOR should have wiped us out in under 48hrs given the past show of power against other nations, including last set.

We cannot come to an agreement about the whole retal before prep argument because I guess we play the game differently. I do still and will always think that playing the game using features the way they were intended to be used will always be more creditable than using loopholes and playing shady. I also think that playing shady causes people who try to play "correctly" (my words) to get upset.

LOR didnt have to use that feature in order to kill SLOB. LOR already have an overwhelming advantage and could have easily killed the same two states 30min later than they did. They wree not online just the same, and if they were not killed two others could have been. Doing what LOR did was an intentional slight against the programer of the game, and not only did I take offense to it, but I am sure Mr. P. who spent hours upon hours to get those features developed for all of us to enjoy did as well.

Given the history instead of treating this incident as a repeat offense of "Shady" play he treated it quite lightly and fair. No ones state was deleted, no one got banned, no one got perma banned even though IT IS in the TOS not to use loopholes or take advantage of the way the game is coded in order to obtain an advantage (not quoted).

We are not going to agree so can we please stop arguing about it?

Ill agree that you didnt "cheat" but possibly played "shady".
I didnt get what I wanted out of the situation, and neither did you.

Nothing is going to be done about it now, it is what it is.

I will side with Mr. P. on his descision even though i didnt get what I wanted out of it because I do respect the time and effort he has put in. I am sure he was just getting off of work, and trying to go home and be with his family and maybe didnt want to reply to all of the PMs sent his way as fast as we wnated him too. For the record he didnt reply to me either, and once I reported the incodent he didnt "personaly" reply to me directly either.

Lets just agree to disagree here and move on. Its a pretty good fight and we both should be having a good time with it, instead of getting all pissed at each other.

[Disorder]

If you claim old age, you should probably act like it. Your online persona is childish.

Let's take this up in game?? Ok--

Name: Disorder(#8)[SLOB] *DEAD*
Rank: 0
Networth: $332.346
Land: 120

Name: pron(#69)[LoR]
Rank: 22
Networth: $4.032.466
Land: 5.092

Got anything else kiddo?

Now we can go round and round about this.. you know as well as I do that LOR does not get credit for this kill.. in fact, they just wasted a bunch of turns for nothing. It pays to be active as I was. I prevented your team from getting credit from my state. Its called defence. Now, you can look at my GE and see I have 3 kills on your nation, soon you will be added to the growing list. I know, your use to cheating and all. But what I did was part of the game and you can look it up, there is no rule against it.

[BB]

This thread is being closed. Things have gotten out of hand. I will open a new one for the war convo between the nations. Any talks concerning the loophole will be deleted and I expect the mods to strictly enforce that.

[Mr President]

Actually BB if you don't mind i would like to keep this opening and going for a little bit longer. I feel people have a right to say what is on there mind, even if it is against me. I am going to rename this thread, and if a mod has some free time, please go through it and delete or move any post that actually has to do with the war.. And we will just make this a grievance thread..

I do ask that members stop calling each other cheaters though. I think those who have actually been bagged cheating should get a fair rashin of crap for it, but Pron has never cheated nor has he been bagged a cheater.

Pron has been a good member in this community and rarely ever raises a voice unless he feel passionate about what he is saying.. He does not like the decision that was made and he has a right to voice it..

I stopped reading this last night cause it was taking up to much of my time and i had to work on some things with the game and when your coding stuff it's way to confusing to keep switching back and forth and trying to keep up.. but anyway i have read it all now and am rip raring ready to reply .. BTW, my replies will prolly be long. I worked hard at making smaller posts, but some of you have made me pull out the long ones.... tsk tsk tsk..

@ BB--putting a forum posting is not proper action. Putting it into the TOS would have been proper action.

First i would like to clear up this TOS confusion.. The TOS is a simple guide to Terms of Service. Basically giving a brief overview of certain things you can't do to violate the service we provide. ie bots, double accounts, hacking, porno stuff ect ect..The TOS is not the games rule book. We really don't have one of those, but i think we need one.

You are correct that i did not update this rule book with the retaliation policy. But again, there is no way i can cover everything in the game. We would have so many rules we would be like the united States.. ..

It's kinda like the triple SA's.. I don't see it posted anywhere other then the forums, but everyone seems to follow it. And when a new member does it he is punished in one form or another.. Mainly killed or given several nasty messages. So should this SA policy be in the rule book? How about the no double SA on the top 10? No it shouldn't be added.. There needs to be a time when common sense kicks in.. And the retaliation is one of those time.

But i'm thinking of setting up a way to allow the members to send in rules they feel should be added to this new "Rule Book" that i will be making. If approved they will be added.

Why is it always pres's responsibility to initiate the conversation. If something is known it should be brought up to him. I doubt with work and RL, that he has the time to track down everyone and talk to them about loopholes. I know this doesn't really have any real argument about what your saying now but everytime it seems all night you have been implying that pres has to talk to people first. If you feel you are wronged or know something that is going on that shouldnt, don't you need to talk to him.

You don't expect the police to come to your house because they are checking randomly for problems...you call them when there is an issue.


@andy: you almost got the quote thing right

It is CLEARLY stated in the TOS that loopholes are to be reported.

The thing that, I feel was most unfair, is not what other LoR states claim. I think making a verdict without even hearing our side of the story is bull****. People who are convicted and caught red handed in murder are still taking to trial and asked motive and what not, I know this is a game, but since when do we just listen to the report look at the "retaliation" and decide.


All this tactic really achieved was a few more LoR dead states, and the prolong death of SLOB.

I suggest that we stop talking about this, as i know that nothing is going to be done to reverse the actions that have taken place. What i do suggest is that next time both side of the story is heard before the verdict.

Ali i did hear your side of the story.. You, Devil and Pron all sent me a PM with your sides of the story.. not one of them matched.. I'm sorry if i don't have a lot of free time to spend hours to see who is telling the truth and who is not. I looked at the records, spoke with the other admin and we BOTH agreed that this was fair.. You seem to think that i just got on and said "oh gee lor is involved let's try to screw them anyway i can" That is so far from the truth.. In 100% honesty, if this whole situation was reversed i would have done the same thing to SLOB... And let me be clear on this as well, at NO time did i ever say well LoR has more members so this won't hurt them... Sorry, i'm not like that at all. Out of all the members (excluding LoR members) i have been LoR's biggest cheerleader. I was glad to see them come back. I knew crap would happen and that is what i wanted. The forums to light up, the game to have some wars and people getting fired up. it's what this game is all about.

I started out by PM'ing Prez, to which he stopped sending me PM's back. I was most respectful in those PM's, and there was no reason for him to not PM me back. Then he came on the forums and posted here, so I responded to it.

Prons PM's to me were very respectful. He was arguing his case which he has every right too. Pron the only reason i stopped replying to you and came on here was cause i was getting a lot of PM's and it gets old saying the same thing over and over.. it was easier to bring it to the open and discuss it.. I wasn't ignoring you.

What, are you done with the whole "cheater" argument?

No one is beyond reproach--I don't care if they own this game or not. Mr. P is mature enough to know that, why can't you? I will continue to flat out call Mr. P wrong, because I believe he is wrong and I won't be silent just because he owns the game. That's a weak argument .

I have also not resorted to name calling, which you have twice now. You really should not be a mod with the way you carry out conversation in this post. Who should I talk to about that?

I give Mr. P all the respect in the world, and he knows that. But not in this instance, and I should be allowed to voice that.

I'm not a nazi admin.. I strongly feel members who feel they have been wronged have a right to voice his/her opinions as long as they stay focused and on point and not turn ugly.. Doesn't mean that i will change my mind or back down if i too feel strongly about something, but hey ya never know. I make mistakes all the time and if i get called on it and i spend some time really thinking about it, there may be times i reverse my decision.

So far Pron has been fine with what he is saying. he feels strongly about his opionion, but i feel the same about mine..

Then what is the FACT that you are a CHEATER worth?

Game kills total-- 8 to 8

We really need to stop calling ppl who have never been caught cheating a cheater. The admins of this game have gotten really good at catching cheaters so please let us catch and lable them.. Once they are labled then you all can harp on them and make them feel like crap.. But calling someone who has played fair a cheater is really fair at all.. Even if we don't like his/her opinion or the nation they play in.. Doesn't make them a bad person.


I also would like to mention that when do things get to change? I mean Grim is mad at me cause of the vacation ordeal, Pron is mad over this ordeal. So let's just say that after the vacation mode issue i decided to step up the punishment. And now this happens so the punishment is harder. how do i win here? Cause both will still be mad over the same thing... This is only hypothetical of course, it's not what happened..

No matter what choice the admins make, it's never going to be fair in some others eyes.. Some will say it's too light, some will say it's too severe and some will just complain cause it's what they like to do.. I have accepted that. it took me a while to get use too, but i'm cool with that now. All i can do is say that most of you have been around this game and interacting with me since i was just a simple member and then a leader of the most powerful nation in the game ( nice little add in) to now the admin. I do the best i can and try to be as fair as i can. If i overstep or over correct and it's proven then i will gladly reverse my first decision. I'm not too proud or stubborn to admit when i'm wrong.. But in this case i just don't feel as i was wrong. Pron i know you feel i was and i'm ok with that. I am glad you stood up and stated your case and continue to state your case.. I will do the same. But there really isn't a whole lot more i can say..

[Mhaphew]

L O L i was going to suggest a different name for this thread but i guess your title gets it done. My title might have given me some bit of a warning from the boss man..

[Divine Intervention]

Retaliation Menstruation Thread more like, amiright?

[MAGGIO]

Mr. P, was the TOS broken? Was a rule broken? Are you saying that declaring retal before prep is over is compared to a triple tap? Im not getting it.

Did they break "something" or not?

There was a punishment... so it must have been something.

I am also soo confused on the cheater part. You can do something wrong and your a cheater, but you can do other things wrong and you are not a cheater?

I reported the inncodent using the cheater report button (just saying), two states were rolled back, but LOR lost (punished) the turns they used. So I report cheater and "cheater" gets punished? Or "Shady" gets punished.

You got me so messed up that I dont even know what a cheater and what is not a cheater. Im not trying to get anyone in trouble or anything liek that...idc if someone is a cheater or not I just want to know if what happened was cheating, and if it was not what was it.

[Max Logan]

just leave it be, people. States were rolled back, LoR learned a lesson. Now go war already