Benghazi

[Dogma]

I know about the USS liberty. Merry Christmas... Hey Macarena...

[Divine Intervention]

Just read an article about how apparently the Benghazi consulate was mainly a CIA operation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-Benghazi.html

is this redirecting some of the blame placed on Obama, back towards CIA? From what I understand the Administration has been accused of not listening to its intelligence agencies...but if the intelligence agency itself was the target, knew about it, and had the resource to defend itself (CIA has quite a nice budget), surely cant be blaming Bama too much?

anyway, this might all have been discussed already, not really following the situation.

[Dogma]

The point is they have no real right to be there. Britain is the homeland of the English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh. France is the homeland of the many French cultures. Israel is supposed to be the Jewish homeland, yet less than half of the world's Jews live there. It's little more than a colony, on a par with South Africa under Apartheid.

This isn't about survival. The US pulling out of the middle east will not result in every Jew in Israel being killed. It will knock them off their pedestal somewhat, but considering their behaviour, that will be for the better.

why do you say they have no right to be there?

[Will]

why do you say they have no right to be there?

Because their claim to it is tenuous at best. "God gave us the land several thousand years ago" Since then the vast majority of jews have lived elsewhere in the world, mainly Europe and the US. There wasn't any organised effort to create a "Jewish Homeland" until well into the 19th century, and by that time the land had been occupied by others for centuries. The only measure by which Israel can be considered legitimate is by the argument of "Might makes right" and that is a dark path indeed. Some would say that the jews need a homeland so they won't be persecuted, but in which western country has there been serious attemps at this since WW2? If the jews are a religion, they don't need a homeland, since there is no "Christian" homeland, no "Islamic" homeland or a specific land for any other religion, and if they are a race, there is no reason why they could not have occupied areas that weren't already taken.

[Scav]

the CIA director was too busy mailing his mistress 300x a day to forward the intel to his friends in Tampa (central command, ussoc) and Washington (pent / white house)

but that seems to be standard practice in the US Army ;-)

no wonder the grunts are misbehaving on the ground when the top 3 (former) generals lead by such high standards ;-)

[Xavior]

Because their claim to it is tenuous at best. "God gave us the land several thousand years ago" Since then the vast majority of jews have lived elsewhere in the world, mainly Europe and the US. There wasn't any organised effort to create a "Jewish Homeland" until well into the 19th century, and by that time the land had been occupied by others for centuries. The only measure by which Israel can be considered legitimate is by the argument of "Might makes right" and that is a dark path indeed. Some would say that the jews need a homeland so they won't be persecuted, but in which western country has there been serious attemps at this since WW2? If the jews are a religion, they don't need a homeland, since there is no "Christian" homeland, no "Islamic" homeland or a specific land for any other religion, and if they are a race, there is no reason why they could not have occupied areas that weren't already taken.

Its also political suicide to suggest not supporting Isreal 100% if you're an American politician. I think you underestimate the Jewish presence in America.

[Dogma]

Because their claim to it is tenuous at best. "God gave us the land several thousand years ago" Since then the vast majority of jews have lived elsewhere in the world, mainly Europe and the US. There wasn't any organised effort to create a "Jewish Homeland" until well into the 19th century, and by that time the land had been occupied by others for centuries. The only measure by which Israel can be considered legitimate is by the argument of "Might makes right" and that is a dark path indeed. Some would say that the jews need a homeland so they won't be persecuted, but in which western country has there been serious attemps at this since WW2? If the jews are a religion, they don't need a homeland, since there is no "Christian" homeland, no "Islamic" homeland or a specific land for any other religion, and if they are a race, there is no reason why they could not have occupied areas that weren't already taken.

Umm no.

United Nations Resolution 181 partitioned the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The "Palestinian Arabs" were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.

[Dogma]

Its also political suicide to suggest not supporting Isreal 100% if you're an American politician. I think you underestimate the Jewish presence in America.

Yes

[L P]

Its also political suicide to suggest not supporting Isreal 100% if you're an American politician. I think you underestimate the Jewish presence in America.

Not true. Obama has been the least supportive of any president I can think of and yet he carried most of the Jewish vote. Israel practically endorsed Romney is this last election.

[Will]

Umm no.

United Nations Resolution 181 partitioned the territory from the British Mandate for Palestine into two states - one for Jews and one for Palestinian Arabs. All of the Arab countries objected to the creation of the Jewish state and fought a war against its creation. This was Israel's War of Independence in 1948. Despite their superior numbers, the Arab countries lost the war and the Palestinian state never materialized because of this loss. In the war that was waged, the territory allotted to be the Palestinian state by the UN partition resolution was divided between Israel and Jordan. The "Palestinian Arabs" were rejected by every single Arab country, with the exception of the small percentage that ended up in refugee camps in Jordan where they remain to this day.

Not sure exactly how any of that negates my post. If Resolution 181 makes Israel legitmate then they have an obligation to allow a fully independent Palestinian state, which they have been opposed to for years (and supported in this by the US).